“Michigan football coach Sherrone Moore violated NCAA rules, NOA draft says”

[BobPSU92]

Misunderstanding.

U-M's Moore violated NCAA rules, NOA draft says

Michigan head coach Sherrone Moore is one of seven members from the 2023 football program accused of violating NCAA rules in a draft of the NCAA's notice of allegations obtained by ESPN.

www.espn.com

 

[psuno1]

Misunderstanding.

U-M's Moore violated NCAA rules, NOA draft says

Michigan head coach Sherrone Moore is one of seven members from the 2023 football program accused of violating NCAA rules in a draft of the NCAA's notice of allegations obtained by ESPN.

www.espn.com

Yeah UM never cheated it was all just getting better as players and coaches. Give me a break-there guilty as sin.

 

[s1uggo72]

Misunderstanding.

U-M's Moore violated NCAA rules, NOA draft says

Michigan head coach Sherrone Moore is one of seven members from the 2023 football program accused of violating NCAA rules in a draft of the NCAA's notice of allegations obtained by ESPN.

www.espn.com

how on earth do yo violate NCAA rules these days?

 

[BobPSU92]

It is the ultimate in um arrogance to promote a guy to head coach who was OBVIOUSLY. part of the cheating scandal. um gonna um.

 

[GrimReaper]

 

[Connorpozlee]

I feel like Harbaugh and the Michigan program in general turned into Nick Nolte’s character in Blue Chips. Sick of losing, sick of seeing other programs cheating so might as well just go all in on it.

 

[Midnighter]

I’d be surprised if Michigan allows the NCAA to do anything significant. They won’t roll over like Kentucky did. Miami and UNC showed them the way.

 

[LB99]

I feel like Harbaugh and the Michigan program in general turned into Nick Nolte’s character in Blue Chips. Sick of losing, sick of seeing other programs cheating so might as well just go all in on it.

Agree. And Harbaugh skipped town ala Pete Carroll and Chip Kelly to stay ahead of more allegations/sanctions/suspensions. Whether or not the program will see those consequences now that he is gone remains to be seen…I highly doubt it.

 

[VaDave4PSU]

I feel like Harbaugh and the Michigan program in general turned into Nick Nolte’s character in Blue Chips. Sick of losing, sick of seeing other programs cheating so might as well just go all in on it.

The biggest thing they did, in their own favor, is they seemingly have everyone on board with "Stallions did this and he went through one coach only."

 

[Midnighter]

The biggest thing they did, in their own favor, is they seemingly have everyone on board with "Stallions did this and he went through one coach only."

They also plowed Penn State (with one of the best defenses in the country), with a back up coach (on short notice) and no passing game. Almost no HCs are outraged it seems either. Most say all teams do ‘some’ kind of sign stealing. In fact, it’s not even illegal. Scouting in person though is. And only Stallions is on the hook there. Will be surprised if more than maybe some HC suspensions.

 

[Nittany1865Farmer]

Since it seems that 'every program is doing it", why don't we use our best talent to steal signs from other teams. PSU has a top 4 Astronomy program, so let's get those satellites and telescopes trained on every B10 college football practice and show the others how to really use technology to steal signals.

 

[VaDave4PSU]

They also plowed Penn State (with one of the best defenses in the country), with a back up coach (on short notice) and no passing game. Almost no HCs are outraged it seems either. Most say all teams do ‘some’ kind of sign stealing. In fact, it’s not even illegal. Scouting in person though is. And only Stallions is on the hook there. Will be surprised if more than maybe some HC suspensions.

They did beat us. I don't know that I'd go as far to say with a backup coach as it being meaningful though (Harbaugh was there for everything but the game and I wouldn't be shocked if he wasn't on a burner phone with somebody in the booth, but that's neither here nor there).

No HC is going to be outraged because you never know when something similar could drop on you. And it's sour grapes if you do speak on it.

I wouldn't be shocked if what Stallions did eventually becomes legal, but having 50+ games of every legit opponent signs taped and on a handy sheet is DEFINITELY illegal and going the extra step or 3 to win.

 

[Bvillebaron]

I feel like Harbaugh and the Michigan program in general turned into Nick Nolte’s character in Blue Chips. Sick of losing, sick of seeing other programs cheating so might as well just go all in on it.

What other programs were cheating and precisely what did they do? It’s clear what Michigan did.

 

[PSUwolf]

Michigan never won anything until they started recruiting violations - sign stealing etc.... BS. I guess they have to cheat to win.

 

[WestSideLion]

They also plowed Penn State (with one of the best defenses in the country), with a back up coach (on short notice) and no passing game. Almost no HCs are outraged it seems either. Most say all teams do ‘some’ kind of sign stealing. In fact, it’s not even illegal. Scouting in person though is. And only Stallions is on the hook there. Will be surprised if more than maybe some HC suspensions.

Moore is going to be the token "fall guy" if anything happens. Harbaugh smartly bolted when his stock was at an all-time high. Moore is in the tenuous position of inheriting a team with nowhere to go but down. If that team slips up this year (ex: 4 losses), then it will be easy for Michigan to throw Moore under the bus and move on to the next coach to clean house.

 

[Connorpozlee]

What other programs were cheating and precisely what did they do? It’s clear what Michigan did.

That’s an odd question. Are you asking me that question because you think I disagree with what you posted?

 

[BobPSU92]

Moore is going to be the token "fall guy" if anything happens. Harbaugh smartly bolted when his stock was at an all-time high. Moore is in the tenuous position of inheriting a team with nowhere to go but down. If that team slips up this year (ex: 4 losses), then it will be easy for Michigan to throw Moore under the bus and move on to the next coach to clean house.

I see what you did there.

 

[Midnighter]

Moore is going to be the token "fall guy" if anything happens. Harbaugh smartly bolted when his stock was at an all-time high. Moore is in the tenuous position of inheriting a team with nowhere to go but down. If that team slips up this year (ex: 4 losses), then it will be easy for Michigan to throw Moore under the bus and move on to the next coach to clean house.

Yup. He's a 'repeat offender' too. I agree with Finebaum's take:

On Sunday, the NCAA sent Michigan a draft of its notice of allegations regarding the sign-stealing scandal that swirled around the program last fall. The draft revealed numerous insights into the scandal and the potential ramifications for those involved. On Monday, Paul Finebaum weighed in on the tense situation unfolding in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

“I don’t think it’s a big deal,” Finebaum said. “This is all a continuation of a long, drawn-out story that — in many people’s eyes, probably other than the NCAA — is over. Let’s not forget that Charlie Baker, the president of the NCAA — and this may sound out of context because it probably is — but after Michigan won the national championship, he said they won fair and square. I remember that and I think a lot of lawyers are going to remember that too.

“I’m not trying to minimize it. But, the point is that in the big picture of college athletics, nobody respects the NCAA. Nobody really cares about the NCAA. And, there is a team of lawyers ready to drag this out and to threaten the NCAA if they dare do anything to Michigan other than a slap on the wrist.”

 

[Nitt1300]

Moore is going to be the token "fall guy" if anything happens. Harbaugh smartly bolted when his stock was at an all-time high. Moore is in the tenuous position of inheriting a team with nowhere to go but down. If that team slips up this year (ex: 4 losses), then it will be easy for Michigan to throw Moore under the bus and move on to the next coach to find new ways to cheat.

fify

 

[Bob78]

Yup. He's a 'repeat offender' too. I agree with Finebaum's take:

On Sunday, the NCAA sent Michigan a draft of its notice of allegations regarding the sign-stealing scandal that swirled around the program last fall. The draft revealed numerous insights into the scandal and the potential ramifications for those involved. On Monday, Paul Finebaum weighed in on the tense situation unfolding in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

“I don’t think it’s a big deal,” Finebaum said. “This is all a continuation of a long, drawn-out story that — in many people’s eyes, probably other than the NCAA — is over. Let’s not forget that Charlie Baker, the president of the NCAA — and this may sound out of context because it probably is — but after Michigan won the national championship, he said they won fair and square. I remember that and I think a lot of lawyers are going to remember that too.

“I’m not trying to minimize it. But, the point is that in the big picture of college athletics, nobody respects the NCAA. Nobody really cares about the NCAA. And, there is a team of lawyers ready to drag this out and to threaten the NCAA if they dare do anything to Michigan other than a slap on the wrist.”

I also agree with much of what Finebaum says here, especially wrt the lack of respect for the NCAA.
To me, this type and level of cheating isn't the old 'impermissable benefits' stuff that really did not impact the outcome of a game, outside of a possibly slightly greater talent imbalance over the longer run. I'm in the 'so what?' camp there, especially now.
But this stuff is much more impactful to the outcome of games and by extension, to the outcome of the playoffs. If no punishment of substance is imposed here, then I think the Wild West of college football just got even wilder and more out of control. I fear that no big-time Power conference school is going to be courageous enough to say 'Enough. We choose integrity'.
Rational rules around xfers need to be established asap. The fans need a win somewhere along the way.

 

[VaDave4PSU]

Finebaum is just playing the villain. Every fan base outside of Wolverine fans desire to see punishment given. This is clickbait to spark discussions.

 

[BobPSU92]

The ultimate f*ck you to the ncaa would be for um to rehire stalions and send him to games at Tosu and PSU seated at the 50 yard line decked out in piss yellow and blue with a large video camera. No “Where’s connor?” More like, “Here I am! Whatchu gonna do about it?!”

 

[Bvillebaron]

That’s an odd question. Are you asking me that question because you think I disagree with what you posted?

What am I missing? Did you post suggest that other programs were cheating or not?

 

[Midnighter]

Finebaum is just playing the villain. Every fan base outside of Wolverine fans desire to see punishment given. This is clickbait to spark discussions.

From Pete Thamel:

“Moore faces, what the NCAA says in the draft, is a Level 2 violation, and he is potentially a repeat offender, because he got jammed up in the other Michigan scandal which occupied a lot of our last summer, which was the illegal, COVID off-campus recruiting case. Moore was suspended for the opener last year. So, that is, in a nutshell, what happened. I guess the final thing is that the University of Michigan also faces a Level 1 violation in this. The NCAA called it a pattern of non-compliance for the university.”

In response regarding any potential punishment, Greenberg wanted it straight: “Okay, so in the most dramatic scenario, if they throw the biggest book at them they can, what does Sherrone Moore potentially face?”


Evidently, Thamel doesn’t believe any accomplishments will be taken away from Michigan, and while Moore could be suspended, that’s the most dramatic scenario for the Wolverines.

“So, I would think Sherrone Moore faces a short suspension, if you look at the history of this stuff, at the maximum,” Thamel stated. “To go through sort of the matrix of what could happen to Michigan in this, I don’t think they’re going to have any type of postseason ban. I don’t think, looking at history and looking at past precedent in this, there’s going to be any type of retroactive anything to what they’ve already won and accomplished.

“Their accomplishments are safe. There’s no player’s eligibility at stake in this, so for Moore, who’s sort of become the base of this notice because the other coaches involved have all gone to the NFL, I would think we will find out in the upcoming weeks and months, depending on how long this takes to litigate, if he does end up getting some type of suspension.”

 

[Midnighter]

What am I missing? Did you post suggest that other programs were cheating or not?

I suggested it. Because all programs try to decipher signals/playcalls - most HCs admit this. Fans at home can do this too - they show the sideline constantly; you see the signs held up and the back up QBs sending in signals - then, you see the play they called. It's not difficult to assign one staffer to watch taped games and try to figure these things out. Now, sending a scout to do this live? That's the violation and what Michigan is guilty of. How much of an advantage is it? Probably not much IMO. Given how much film coaches and players watch, they know what is coming most of the time from a given formation based on the tape.

Take Penn State last year - they knew Michigan was going to run just about every down, which they did, and still couldn't stop them.

 

[Connorpozlee]

What am I missing? Did you post suggest that other programs were cheating or not?

I said Harbaugh turned into Nolte’s character from Blue Chips. He got sick of getting his head kicked in every year by Ohio State so he decided to out-Ohio State them and cheat his balls off to win.

 

[BobPSU92]

Well, that settles it.

Harbaugh: 'Was not aware' of any U-M violations

After being one of seven members from Michigan accused of violating rules in a draft of the NCAA's notice of allegations obtained by ESPN on Monday, Los Angeles coach Jim Harbaugh denied any wrongdoing, adding that "it's back to work" with the Chargers.

www.espn.com

 

[Connorpozlee]

Well, that settles it.

Harbaugh: 'Was not aware' of any U-M violations

After being one of seven members from Michigan accused of violating rules in a draft of the NCAA's notice of allegations obtained by ESPN on Monday, Los Angeles coach Jim Harbaugh denied any wrongdoing, adding that "it's back to work" with the Chargers.

www.espn.com

Perhaps it was all just a misunderstanding, Bob?

 

[LionsAndBears]

Well, that settles it.

Harbaugh: 'Was not aware' of any U-M violations

After being one of seven members from Michigan accused of violating rules in a draft of the NCAA's notice of allegations obtained by ESPN on Monday, Los Angeles coach Jim Harbaugh denied any wrongdoing, adding that "it's back to work" with the Chargers.

www.espn.com

Either

A) Harbaugh is a liar.
B) Harbaugh is a moron
C) All of the above

 

[VaDave4PSU]

I suggested it. Because all programs try to decipher signals/playcalls - most HCs admit this. Fans at home can do this too - they show the sideline constantly; you see the signs held up and the back up QBs sending in signals - then, you see the play they called. It's not difficult to assign one staffer to watch taped games and try to figure these things out. Now, sending a scout to do this live? That's the violation and what Michigan is guilty of. How much of an advantage is it? Probably not much IMO. Given how much film coaches and players watch, they know what is coming most of the time from a given formation based on the tape.

Take Penn State last year - they knew Michigan was going to run just about every down, which they did, and still couldn't stop them.

Go back and watch any game from last year. I don't believe that you get to see the signal calls on half of the plays. Between camera shifts, hurry up offense, replays, in-game commercials, the amount of footage is much less than you suggest.

If there was minimal advantage to gain, why would any coaching staff pursue this at the legal route? I think there is a big difference in 11 players doing their assignment based on defensive play call and offensive alignment based on film study vs your coaches signaling in "run right" "run left" "quick slant".

 

[Midnighter]

Go back and watch any game from last year. I don't believe that you get to see the signal calls on half of the plays. Between camera shifts, hurry up offense, replays, in-game commercials, the amount of footage is much less than you suggest.

If there was minimal advantage to gain, why would any coaching staff pursue this at the legal route? I think there is a big difference in 11 players doing their assignment based on defensive play call and offensive alignment based on film study vs your coaches signaling in "run right" "run left" "quick slant".

Challenge accepted. Will get back to you with results. As to your question, any advantage - small/big, perceived or otherwise, will be pursued because it could be the difference between a win and a loss. Maybe not, but it’s a small effort. What is the difference between having someone watch signals during a game and sending someone to watch a game a week beforehand? Almost every coach I’ve heard said they routinely change signals because they can be stolen. Produce the file or binder with every teams signals in it and you have a better case. Only evidence I’ve seen to date is pics of Stallions at games.

 

[VaDave4PSU]

Challenge accepted. Will get back to you with results. As to your question, any advantage - small/big, perceived or otherwise, will be pursued because it could be the difference between a win and a loss. Maybe not, but it’s a small effort. What is the difference between having someone watch signals during a game and sending someone to watch a game a week beforehand? Almost every coach I’ve heard said they routinely change signals because they can be stolen. Produce the file or binder with every teams signals in it and you have a better case. Only evidence I’ve seen to date is pics of Stallions at games.

If you already have the signals scouted along with the dummy ones, that is huge. Instead of taking a quarter, a half you might be able to diagnose who is signaling in the plays and what they are by the 2nd or 3rd drive.

 

[PSUJam]

Challenge accepted. Will get back to you with results. As to your question, any advantage - small/big, perceived or otherwise, will be pursued because it could be the difference between a win and a loss. Maybe not, but it’s a small effort. What is the difference between having someone watch signals during a game and sending someone to watch a game a week beforehand? Almost every coach I’ve heard said they routinely change signals because they can be stolen. Produce the file or binder with every teams signals in it and you have a better case. Only evidence I’ve seen to date is pics of Stallions at games.

It won't let me post the Bleacher Report article that surveyed coaches across the country asking how big of a deal it is. I know you've probably seen it. One coach said it's like having the answers to the test. All told the coaches said it was a 4.2 out of 5 advantage for the cheaters. This one sticks out in my mind:

 

[rigi19040]

I’d be surprised if Michigan allows the NCAA to do anything significant. They won’t roll over like Kentucky did. Miami and UNC showed them the way.

Isn't michigan just doing what everyone at psu said psu should have done in 2012? Should michigan have hired freeh?

 

[Bvillebaron]

I said Harbaugh turned into Nolte’s character from Blue Chips. He got sick of getting his head kicked in every year by Ohio State so he decided to out-Ohio State them and cheat his balls off to win.

Exactly. And I simply asked you to tell me which programs were cheating and what specifically they did. Still waiting.

 

[Bvillebaron]

I suggested it. Because all programs try to decipher signals/playcalls - most HCs admit this. Fans at home can do this too - they show the sideline constantly; you see the signs held up and the back up QBs sending in signals - then, you see the play they called. It's not difficult to assign one staffer to watch taped games and try to figure these things out. Now, sending a scout to do this live? That's the violation and what Michigan is guilty of. How much of an advantage is it? Probably not much IMO. Given how much film coaches and players watch, they know what is coming most of the time from a given formation based on the tape.

Take Penn State last year - they knew Michigan was going to run just about every down, which they did, and still couldn't stop them.

Some guy named Urban Meyer thinks it’s a big advantage but what does he know about football?

 

[BobPSU92]

Some guy named Urban Meyer thinks it’s a big advantage but what does he know about football?

Success With Go F*ck Yourself

 

[LaJollaCreek]

Go back and watch any game from last year. I don't believe that you get to see the signal calls on half of the plays. Between camera shifts, hurry up offense, replays, in-game commercials, the amount of footage is much less than you suggest.

If there was minimal advantage to gain, why would any coaching staff pursue this at the legal route? I think there is a big difference in 11 players doing their assignment based on defensive play call and offensive alignment based on film study vs your coaches signaling in "run right" "run left" "quick slant".

It's not even close as even if they flip over to the signs for 5 seconds during a play you may not know what sign proceeded that or went on after as most signs are just decoys. They were recording whole games in person and lining them up with the actual call after the fact. You can try and steal signs during a game and everyone does with some very limited success I'm sure, but that isn't what occurred here. It's odd how some PSU fans that **** on this PSU HC pretty much daily know so little about the sport apparently and give other coaches who clearly cheated a free pass or try to make excuses for it.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Exactly. And I simply asked you to tell me which programs were cheating and what specifically they did. Still waiting.

Ohio State for years to start with, which is the primary reason Michigan would go all in on cheating themselves. I’ll call my contacts within the NCAA headquarters and get back to you with the rest.

 

[PSUSignore]

Challenge accepted. Will get back to you with results. As to your question, any advantage - small/big, perceived or otherwise, will be pursued because it could be the difference between a win and a loss. Maybe not, but it’s a small effort. What is the difference between having someone watch signals during a game and sending someone to watch a game a week beforehand? Almost every coach I’ve heard said they routinely change signals because they can be stolen. Produce the file or binder with every teams signals in it and you have a better case. Only evidence I’ve seen to date is pics of Stallions at games.

If there was little value in doing it then why would Stalions and UM do it at like 50+ games in the first place, when they know it's explicitly against the rules. You'd never risk it if the benefit was minimal.