6-3, tying run at the plate and we LET Forsythe hit.

[HuntDawg]

This about sums up this team and this staff.

your 9 hole hitter, .266 this season, .158 in CONFERENCE play—- little to no power—- we let him HIT.

The “players coach” lemonis and this staff is— whatever you want to call it. I’m sure they like Lane and wanted him to get a hit, but letting him hit in that situation is simply inexcusable. Has to be someone on that bench who’s a better option to plug a gap there or put together a good at-bat. And if there isn’t, they should all be fired for not being able to recruit.

Next issue is the lead off spot. Larry got his hits against the bad pitching we saw early. His 140 conference average is being exposed.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

To be fair, he had hit a double off the wall in his previous AB. I’m not totally sure who on the bench would have been more trustworthy, especially if Chance is hurt.

 

[HuntDawg]

3 for 19 in conference play. Hitting 9th for a reason.. we riding the hot hand?

If there is no one on that bench that’s a better option than a career 250 hitter. With 2 career homers and about 12 career extra base hits… then WTH.

Anyone on that bench is a better option.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

I agree, even with the nice double on the bat before, you kinda felt like Forsythe had already shot his wad.
Percentages make it evident you need to pinch hit at that particular moment.
Perplexed by yet another really poor decision.

 

[Drebin]

This about sums up this team and this staff.

your 9 hole hitter, .266 this season, .158 in CONFERENCE play—- little to no power—- we let him HIT.

The “players coach” lemonis and this staff is— whatever you want to call it. I’m sure they like Lane and wanted him to get a hit, but letting him hit in that situation is simply inexcusable. Has to be someone on that bench who’s a better option to plug a gap there or put together a good at-bat. And if there isn’t, they should all be fired for not being able to recruit.

Next issue is the lead off spot. Larry got his hits against the bad pitching we saw early. His 140 conference average is being exposed.

The issue isn't that we let Forsythe hit there, in my opinion. It's that we don't have a better option than Forsythe to begin with. He's been here forever and just hasn't gotten better, and his glove isn't good enough to justify continuously trotting him out there.

But in the moment, he's what we've got, he'd just gotten a hit the previous AB, and you have to weigh whether he's a better option than someone off the bench who hasn't taken a swing all night. He doesn't have much pop, but there's at least the chance he can work the count and coax a walk or something.

 

[HuntDawg]

Agree you have to wonder why someone else wasn’t recruited to replace him. Again it’s not like he earned that spot, he was basically given the spot b/c his competition sucked. I mean hitting 230 your freshman season doesn’t earn anything. Agree with the above take on Forsythe.

Disagree with the moment. In that moment something has to happen. You’re 0-6 in the sec. There is a bench full of athletes in the dugout that you have recruited. Who take BP every day. Who work just has hard as the others. I mean what do you have to lose? Again I’ll say Lane is a career 250 hitter, with 3 homers in 400 at-bats and 13 career XBH. At that point in the game, unless you hit into a DP your GUARENTEEING Ledbetter hits. So even a K isn’t bad. There had to be an all or nothing type hitter over there with the ability to plug a game or tie the game.

Comical that a career 250 hitter, a guy that always hits 9. A guy with 13 career base hits. A guy that’s hitting 158 in conference got to take an at-bat in that situation. If i were a member of the team or a hitter on the bench, i would enter the transfer portal immediately. Because that shows what the staff thinks of you.. you certainly aren’t any bettee than the guy that took the at-bat

 

[MStateDawg]

The “players coach” lemonis

Lemonis had been thrown out of the game before this took place. It was Gautreau's call

 

[kired]

To be fair, he had hit a double off the wall in his previous AB. I’m not totally sure who on the bench would have been more trustworthy, especially if Chance is hurt.

Then the law of averages was working against him after that

 

[Perd Hapley]

He's been here forever and just hasn't gotten better, and his glove isn't good enough to justify continuously trotting him out there.

Meh, I mean he’s gotten marginally better at the plate in the past few years. Particularly in OBP / OPS. No huge leaps obviously, and I don’t know how much credit coaches deserve for the improvement, but he’s not quite the automatic out he used to be. Forsythe wasn’t even a Top 500 recruit and got an offer just about only because of his defensive skillset, and I think his career progression has been satisfactory for a player with that talent profile. Compared to similar guys like Luke Alexander, we’ve gotten quite a bit out of him.

To your other point, I think we have to keep trotting his glove out there because we have no other option. The fact that we are forced to play a 3B who can’t hit or field, and had to go to the portal for a 2B who also can’t hit SEC pitching paints a clear picture that there is certainly no other SS option that is worth a damn. This is concerning for next year because there’s a decent chance he gets drafted. Probably not very high, but since its his leverage year there’s a good chance he’s gone and we have no backup besides a freshmen or portal transfer.

 

[HuntDawg]

No way he gets drafted. Draft is much shorter than in years past. Unless there is dramatic improvement he wont even be drafted next year. He’s actually regressed as a defensive first infielder. He’s too small to play the position at the next level and has zero other tools (average runner, below average hitter, below average power) With the minor leagues shrinking, draft not as long. Zero shot he gets drafted this year—- I’ll take any bet you want on that.

So the issue becomes—- he probably returns and you get a entire next year with him as well—- because one thing is for sure— this staff doesn’t have the gusto to bench kids or hell even pinch hit for that for that matter

 

[The Cooterpoot]

This staff sucks

That's all you've got to say. They won't be here next season.

 

[onewoof]

To be fair, he had hit a double off the wall in his previous AB. I’m not totally sure who on the bench would have been more trustworthy, especially if Chance is hurt.

yep he hits ok at times in non clutch situations, but at that time, bunt him or just let him strike out taking pitches

 

[Perd Hapley]

No way he gets drafted. Draft is much shorter than in years past. Unless there is dramatic improvement he wont even be drafted next year. He’s actually regressed as a defensive first infielder. He’s too small to play the position at the next level and has zero other tools (average runner, below average hitter, below average power) With the minor leagues shrinking, draft not as long. Zero shot he gets drafted this year—- I’ll take any bet you want on that.

So the issue becomes—- he probably returns and you get a entire next year with him as well—- because one thing is for sure— this staff doesn’t have the gusto to bench kids or hell even pinch hit for that for that matter

In general I agree and don’t think he’s a guaranteed pick by any means. But in the later rounds if his number is a good bit lower than some other guys he might get a call. Stranger things have happened.

If he’s back next season under a new staff, I view that as nothing but a positive for us, given the current dire outlook for the entire infield at present time.

 

[Drebin]

Meh, I mean he’s gotten marginally better at the plate in the past few years. Particularly in OBP / OPS. No huge leaps obviously, and I don’t know how much credit coaches deserve for the improvement, but he’s not quite the automatic out he used to be. Forsythe wasn’t even a Top 500 recruit and got an offer just about only because of his defensive skillset, and I think his career progression has been satisfactory for a player with that talent profile. Compared to similar guys like Luke Alexander, we’ve gotten quite a bit out of him.

To your other point, I think we have to keep trotting his glove out there because we have no other option. The fact that we are forced to play a 3B who can’t hit or field, and had to go to the portal for a 2B who also can’t hit SEC pitching paints a clear picture that there is certainly no other SS option that is worth a damn. This is concerning for next year because there’s a decent chance he gets drafted. Probably not very high, but since its his leverage year there’s a good chance he’s gone and we have no backup besides a freshmen or portal transfer.

You're first point is why I didn't have a problem with sticking with him in that spot. He's managed to see more pitches and draw some walks.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

This staff sucks

That's all you've got to say. They won't be here next season.

They sure 'seemed' great after the 2021. Amazing. Our team leadership really was the difference you gotta believe.
Tanner, Rowdy, and Self (who was injured that whole year) ought be offered the coaching position next year.

 

[HuntDawg]

In general I agree and don’t think he’s a guaranteed pick by any means. But in the later rounds if his number is a good bit lower than some other guys he might get a call. Stranger things have happened.

If he’s back next season under a new staff, I view that as nothing but a positive for us, given the current dire outlook for the entire infield at present time.

His number would have to be free. And this isn’t a knock to his play or last night. He’s simply not a draft guy this year and would have to improve a great amount to be a draft next year. 5-11, 175, right handed and his only tool (MLB tool) is his glove and his glove is going backwards. Turn on the TV and you don’t see a lane type guy play short in the big leagues.

Use to guys like him would get drafted late for minor league depth. Now the minors have shrank. Teams now have 2-3 less teams in the minors than before and the minor league pay as gone up. Its just not going to happen. There is no number and he has no leverage

I’d bet any amount of money and give you 5 to 1 on it, he wont get drafted this year.. and id also be willing to take a even money bet that he doesn’t get drafted next.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

Additionally, the game wasn’t lost in the Forsythe AB, we still had a chance with two guys on base and Hines at the plate. Forsythe is getting a lot of blame but nobody is saying anything about Hines striking out looking TWICE with runners on base late in the game.

 

[HuntDawg]

They sure 'seemed' great after the 2021. Amazing. Our team leadership really was the difference you gotta believe.
Tanner, Rowdy, and Self (who was injured that whole year) ought be offered the coaching position next year.

Leadereship is one of the most overrated terms thrown around here on this board.

the difference is talent. That team had the best hitter in the country (who was hot) the best closer in the country and a 1-2 punch at the top of their staff with the ace of the staff likely being the hottest pitcher in the country at that time.

this team just simply doesn’t have the same amount of talent. You can have all the leadership in the world and no talent and it wont get you anywhere. Flip side of it you can have ****** leadership and winning will cure a lot of those problems

 

[NukeDogg]

yep he hits ok at times in non clutch situations, but at that time, bunt him or just let him strike out taking pitches

He can't bunt though.

 

[HuntDawg]

Additionally, the game wasn’t lost in the Forsythe AB, we still had a chance with two guys on base and Hines at the plate. Forsythe is getting a lot of blame but nobody is saying anything about Hines striking out looking TWICE with runners on base late in the game.

No one is saying the game was lost there. But a quality at-bat there does change the entire inning.

The issues is, he should have never been up at the plate. South Carolina has a staff full of strikethrowers. Think the guy we were facing had walked 1 guy all season (could be wrong) if we were putting lane at the plate hoping he’d work the count and earn a walk— all i can do is shake my head— sounds like little league strategy

 

[Drebin]

Leadereship is one of the most overrated terms thrown around here on this board.

the difference is talent. That team had the best hitter in the country (who was hot) the best closer in the country and a 1-2 punch at the top of their staff with the ace of the staff likely being the hottest pitcher in the country at that time.

this team just simply doesn’t have the same amount of talent. You can have all the leadership in the world and no talent and it wont get you anywhere. Flip side of it you can have ****** leadership and winning will cure a lot of those problems

Leadership is a critical component here. We had great talent but certainly didn't have the best overall talent in 2021. But the leadership and experience were off the charts. You don't see many of those guys really lighting it up in the minors right now.

This team doesn't have much pitching talent, I'll concede. But we've got some offensive talent on this club, no doubt.

The difference between good and great at this level is almost always makeup and experience or lack thereof.

 

[kired]

He can't bunt though.

This is true and a major head scratcher. I was a Forysthe like hitter in high school, always bottom 3rd of the lineup and never sniffed a .300 average. But I was the best damn bunter on the team. I practiced the hell out of it because I knew I would be asked to bunt almost every game.

I don't understand how a guy who bats bottom of the lineup (so he should be practicing this more than anyone), has the physical ability / quick enough hands to be a solid shortstop, but can't put a bunt down.

 

[onewoof]

He can't bunt though.

he did earlier, a little one toward first that did the job, went a bit further than a perfect bunt but was effective. he did miss the first attempt . but even a strike out looking would have been better odds

 

[8dog]

No way he gets drafted. Draft is much shorter than in years past. Unless there is dramatic improvement he wont even be drafted next year. He’s actually regressed as a defensive first infielder. He’s too small to play the position at the next level and has zero other tools (average runner, below average hitter, below average power) With the minor leagues shrinking, draft not as long. Zero shot he gets drafted this year—- I’ll take any bet you want on that.

So the issue becomes—- he probably returns and you get a entire next year with him as well—- because one thing is for sure— this staff doesn’t have the gusto to bench kids or hell even pinch hit for that for that matter

If he starts at ss for 4 years that about sums up the Lem era.

 

[Perd Hapley]

His number would have to be free. And this isn’t a knock to his play or last night. He’s simply not a draft guy this year and would have to improve a great amount to be a draft next year. 5-11, 175, right handed and his only tool (MLB tool) is his glove and his glove is going backwards. Turn on the TV and you don’t see a lane type guy play short in the big leagues.

Use to guys like him would get drafted late for minor league depth. Now the minors have shrank. Teams now have 2-3 less teams in the minors than before and the minor league pay as gone up. Its just not going to happen. There is no number and he has no leverage

I’d bet any amount of money and give you 5 to 1 on it, he wont get drafted this year.. and id also be willing to take a even money bet that he doesn’t get drafted next.

Well, like I said I agree and I don’t really care to split hairs over whether his draft odds are 5% or 0% and therefore obviously am not going to take your bet.

I hope he’s back next year and returns to his Fr / So. year form defensively. I think anyone who looks at our current roster should hope for the same.

 

[HumpDawgy]

I agree that this has been multiple times late in games where they did not pull Forsythe. Here and Kentucky Friday game come to mind.

That said, Lane had the double earlier while Hines struck out with his bat on his shoulder his last 2 at bats. Not sure who we have that can come in and hit these days. Too many guys swinging for the fences. We need more Mangums.

 

[HuntDawg]

Leadership is a critical component here. We had great talent but certainly didn't have the best overall talent in 2021. But the leadership and experience were off the charts. You don't see many of those guys really lighting it up in the minors right now.

This team doesn't have much pitching talent, I'll concede. But we've got some offensive talent on this club, no doubt.

The difference between good and great at this level is almost always makeup and experience or lack thereof.

I agree make up And experience help.. nowhere in there was it leadership. As I’ve said Luke Hancock has the C on his chest. 4 year starter, national champion, he might be the best dang leader we’ve ever had. But this board laments the lack of leadership. If he were winning and he had the C on his chest.. he’d be deemed the reason for it.

Leadership is needed but leadership doesn’t turn a 20 win team into a 40 win team. Hell it doesnt turn a 30 win team into a 40 win team. People on this board think leadership is the key to it all. Thrown magnum on this team and we are all of a sudden a contender and its just not the case.

Talent? The only player i think we have that would play consistently at another program in the SEC is ledbetter. Hines would be in the lineup somewhere as well likely as a DH. That’s probably it. So Im not seeing this—- we have a lot of offensively talent.

All our 3b- wouldn’t be in other sec lineups
forsyhte- no way
larry— maybe, probably not though and if so would be a 8-9 hole guy, not a 1 hole guy
hines- yes but DH
catchers- god no
our slew of players playing left— no
ledbetter— yes, but would play left at a good school not center
clark- probably in a platoon situation but he’d again be a 7-8-9 hole guy and probably never take an AB off a lefty.

So exactly where is this offensive talent?

 

[onewoof]

If he starts at ss for 4 years that about sums up the Lem era.

He was CWS all star SS in 2021. Deservingly.

 

[Drebin]

I agree make up And experience help.. nowhere in there was it leadership. As I’ve said Luke Hancock has the C on his chest. 4 year starter, national champion, he might be the best dang leader we’ve ever had. But this board laments the lack of leadership. If he were winning and he had the C on his chest.. he’d be deemed the reason for it.

Leadership is needed but leadership doesn’t turn a 20 win team into a 40 win team. Hell it doesnt turn a 30 win team into a 40 win team. People on this board think leadership is the key to it all. Thrown magnum on this team and we are all of a sudden a contender and its just not the case.

Talent? The only player i think we have that would play consistently at another program in the SEC is ledbetter. Hines would be in the lineup somewhere as well likely as a DH. That’s probably it. So Im not seeing this—- we have a lot of offensively talent.

All our 3b- wouldn’t be in other sec lineups
forsyhte- no way
larry— maybe, probably not though and if so would be a 8-9 hole guy, not a 1 hole guy
hines- yes but DH
catchers- god no
our slew of players playing left— no
ledbetter— yes, but would play left at a good school not center
clark- probably in a platoon situation but he’d again be a 7-8-9 hole guy and probably never take an AB off a lefty.

So exactly where is this offensive talent?

Leadership and make-up are components of the same thing.

We've been able to score enough runs to win ballgames. You're looking at the wrong things and over-parsing them.

 

[HuntDawg]

Disagree. Leadership is a word thrown around when people win and a problem when they lose. Besides how would anyone on this board know who was or wasn’t a leader? Only the people in the locker room know this. Perhaps we have great leadership on this team, we just don’t know it, perhaps this could have gone to hell in a hand basket quicker had it not been for that great leadership. Leadership is a slangly term thrown around that in reality don’t mean that much Or as much as people think it does.

We have scored 30 runs in 7 sec games. A little over 4 per game. Sorry but that’s not scoring enough runs to win games. We are Hitting .258 in the sec, we’ve hit in as many DPs as we’ve hit HRs in this games. We are striking out 7 times a game vs sec pitching.

We scored 11 runs in a 3 game set vs kentucky
we scored 15 runs vs Vandy with the wind gusting out the entire weekend
we scored 4 runs vs South Carolina‘s mid week arm

We have scored more than 5 runs 1 time. I guess maybe we could be 1-6 in conference play using the logic we score enough.

 

[Drebin]

Disagree. Leadership is a word thrown around when people win and a problem when they lose. Besides how would anyone on this board know who was or wasn’t a leader? Only the people in the locker room know this. Perhaps we have great leadership on this team, we just don’t know it, perhaps this could have gone to hell in a hand basket quicker had it not been for that great leadership. Leadership is a slangly term thrown around that in reality don’t mean that much Or as much as people think it does.

We have scored 30 runs in 7 sec games. A little over 4 per game. Sorry but that’s not scoring enough runs to win games. We are Hitting .258 in the sec, we’ve hit in as many DPs as we’ve hit HRs in this games. We are striking out 7 times a game vs sec pitching.

We scored 11 runs in a 3 game set vs kentucky
we scored 15 runs vs Vandy with the wind gusting out the entire weekend
we scored 4 runs vs South Carolina‘s mid week arm

We have scored more than 5 runs 1 time. I guess maybe we could be 1-6 in conference play using the logic we score enough.

The object of the game is not only to score runs, but to prevent the other team from scoring runs. In the SEC, if you're scoring four runs a game, you should expect to be around .500, not oh-fer.

And there is no leadership on this team. That is evident to anyone who knows what they're looking at. Leaders don't look at strike three in close and late situations. Leaders don't walk the bases loaded or hit multiple batters per inning, leaders don't boot the ball on routine plays, leaders don't give up passed balls and let other teams run wild on them, and leaders don't let their teammates do stuff like that.

 

[HuntDawg]

Wow. Leaders play the game perfect. i see. Looks like a lack of talent not leadership by looking at your definition of being a leader.

If you score 4 runs a game, you’re not going to go 500.

Last year in conference only games:
Not 1 team averaged what we are on pace to average this year. We are on pace to score 128 runs this year in conference games, the lowest a team scored last season was 135. The next lowest was a 154. That Team went 12-18 in conference game last year WITH the 4th best staff in the conference stat wise.

2 years ago the lowest scoring sec team in sec games scored 138 runs— that team went 8-22

Just because we are hitting better than we are pitching or defending doesn’t mean it’s good or even sec worthy. Our numbers are on pace offensively in conference games to be the worst offensive team in the last 3 years.

These are facts. Can’t really over parse those. Not seeing around 500 scoring 4 runs anywhere

 

[Drebin]

Wow. Leaders play the game perfect. i see. Looks like a lack of talent not leadership by looking at your definition of being a leader.

If you score 4 runs a game, you’re not going to go 500.

Last year in conference only games:
Not 1 team averaged what we are on pace to average this year. We are on pace to score 128 runs this year in conference games, the lowest a team scored last season was 135. The next lowest was a 154. That Team went 12-18 in conference game last year WITH the 4th best staff in the conference stat wise.

2 years ago the lowest scoring sec team in sec games scored 138 runs— that team went 8-22

Just because we are hitting better than we are pitching or defending doesn’t mean it’s good or even sec worthy. Our numbers are on pace offensively in conference games to be the worst offensive team in the last 3 years.

These are facts. Can’t really over parse those. Not seeing around 500 scoring 4 runs anywhere

Where did I say leaders play the game perfect (sic)? Don't put words in my mouth and then argue with me as if I said them.

Cumulative runs scored does not tell you much of anything. If the team is averaging four and a half runs per game, then sometimes they score seven, and sometimes they score two. If they're not winning the games where they score seven, they've got problems.

You suck at this.

 

[The Peeper]

He was CWS all star SS in 2021. Deservingly.

and wouldn't start for any other school in the SEC, "deservingly", with his .266 avg and 8 errors. That number could be a dozen or more but he has been the benefactor of many judgement calls at home that would have been errors anywhere else. I can think of 3 throws right off the bat where he bounced it over or drew the 1st baseman off the bag but didn't get an error.

 

[HuntDawg]

I suck at this?

do you really not get it?

The two bottom teams in the sec the last two seasons. Both scored the 4 runs a game you are mentioning. Actually slightly less but I’m not splitting hairs.

those two teams won 12 and 8 games respectively. The team that was 12 had had the 4th best staff in the league

so 4 runs a game in the sec should net 8-10 wins. Which is probably somewhere whst this team will do barring improvement.

that is nowhere close to 500.

state has only scored 7 one time and they lost. So as I said above, this teams offense has been good enough to go 1-6 so far in the sec.

 

[HuntDawg]

Leaders don’t boot balls, strike out, let people steal, etc. or let other people do this.

the way you describe leadership is the quote above is. Leaders play well, don’t mess up in key spots and leaders don’t put up with others not playing well either.

michael Jordan couldn’t led the Washington wizards to the nba finals. Is this because he wasn’t a leader?

 

[jdbulldog]

This about sums up this team and this staff.

your 9 hole hitter, .266 this season, .158 in CONFERENCE play—- little to no power—- we let him HIT.

The “players coach” lemonis and this staff is— whatever you want to call it. I’m sure they like Lane and wanted him to get a hit, but letting him hit in that situation is simply inexcusable. Has to be someone on that bench who’s a better option to plug a gap there or put together a good at-bat. And if there isn’t, they should all be fired for not being able to recruit.

Next issue is the lead off spot. Larry got his hits against the bad pitching we saw early. His 140 conference average is being exposed.

I was surprised we didn’t hit Downs in that situation. Big Von might have made sense, too.

 

[HuntDawg]

I was surprised we didn’t hit Downs in that situation. Big Von might have made sense, too.

Agree wholeheartedl. The are on scholarship. Both have the rep of being hitters prior to coming here. Both have logged at bats in similar situations and both offered more offensively upside than Forsythe did. Had an option of Left and Right too.

If they aren’t better options than Lane in that spot, they should both be looking for places to play.