A question for those who don't want Clemson in the SEC

[Lurker123]

CU has already shown what it can and will do when it commits large amounts of money to football. And they've also recently taken the very best of the SEC (Bama) to the woodshed in a national championship game. You may want to dial back that confidence.



Texas and Oklahoma are coming to the SEC.
The SEC TV deal is about to be renegotiated.
The next TV deal will be massive - more than double the ACC contract within a few years.

All of those things can be said with certainty, which is my benchmark that supports a factual stance.

Clemson has done well while they were supposed be wallowing in obscurity in the ACC. I don't see the team of the last two years matching those teams though. To be fair, they whiffed BADLY on that headcase qb.



And you certainly did list two facts there. Your speculation beyond that is a different matter.

 

[Maxcy]

There won't be a credible link of them going to any new conference until the formal announcement, or maybe a couple days before. But you knew that.

I'm not talking about a formal announcement. I'm talking about anyone credible that is currently talking about CU joining the BIG10. Is anyone even speculating about that possibility? You are the first person I've seen linking CU to the BIG10.

A link to your "accommodations" would also be interesting to see.

 

[Rogue Cock]

Agreed. But I could see "accomodations" when the B10 and SEC end up swallowing most of college football. Otherwise, the B10 might be limiting itself too much.

I can't....Clemson doesn't attract enough research money (which is bigger than the TV revenues) to move the B1Gs needle.....they will be looking at schools that can attract a high level of research money.

 

[Maxcy]

Clemson has done well while they were supposed be wallowing in obscurity in the ACC.

The issues with the ACC have only recently surfaced. Who was predicting the 'wallowing in obscurity in the ACC' prior to Texas and OK joining the SEC?

I don't see the team of the last two years matching those teams though. To be fair, they whiffed BADLY on that headcase qb.

Give 'em $100MM/year, and you'll continue to see a lot.

And you certainly did list two facts there. Your speculation beyond that is a different matter.

I listed two facts, and a third projection (future TV revenue from a new SEC contract) that can be made with a high level of certainty. Sorry if I've missed the facts that you have referenced to this point in this discussion. Can you reiterate them?

 

[Lurker123]

A link to your "accommodations" would also be interesting to see.

You want me to privide links to my speculations?

I suppose we could table all conference realignment talk and pretend it doesn't exist until after official announcements are made. But that would put a damper on message board banter.

 

[Lurker123]

I can't....Clemson doesn't attract enough research money (which is bigger than the TV revenues) to move the B1Gs needle.....they will be looking at schools that can attract a high level of research money.

I don't disagree overly much. Just looking around the corner at the 2 ultra conferences, or whatever they want to call themselves. I'm not convinced that the b10 will remain as stringent.

 

[gamecock stock]

I'm totally serious. The ACC is swirling the drain as an also-ran conference as the revenue discrepancy surfaces.

Riddle me this - if CU has a clear path to the playoffs by remaining in the ACC, why in the world would they be trying to leave? If you can answer that, I'll buy you a drink as you recover from your surgery.

I agree with you about the revenue gap being significant and will get larger. The current numbers and projected numbers back that up. You won't get any argument from me on that point. BUT, as I said the other day, I suspect that Clemson is diverting money from their other sports to feed their football monster. They'd eliminate other sports before letting football suffer. I believe their administration wants to leave so as to avoid starving their other sports for football. All this is speculation on my part but, believe it's logical speculation. By the way, I loathe Clemson as much as any Gamecock fan does.

My question for you is do you really believe Dabo prefers playing the likes of Georgia, Florida, Alabama, LSU and Tennessee every year rather than the likes of NC State, Florida State, Louisville, North Carolina and Pitt? If so, why? I don't like Dabo and always felt he is a clown and a con artist. But, I have never thought of him as a fool. Again, that's speculation on my part. BUT I believe it's logical speculation.

 

[Rogue Cock]

I don't disagree overly much. Just looking around the corner at the 2 ultra conferences, or whatever they want to call themselves. I'm not convinced that the b10 will remain as stringent.

I think they will.....and I don't see a 2-conference situation. The smallest I can see that would be somewhat reasonable is three large conferences. The B1G still has the ability to get Oregon, Washington, (as well as Stanford and Cal) and from the east, UNC and UVA (as well as GaTech), all of whom pull in major research dollars (and are AAU members)....and it would be very difficult for any of those school administrations to turn down sharing in the massive research money the BIG Consortium pulls in annually. Realistically, the ONLY non-AAU program I can forsee the BIG taking is UND....and that will have to wait until UND's new contract with NBC expires,

 

[Lurker123]

The issues with the ACC have only recently surfaced. Who was predicting the 'wallowing in obscurity in the ACC' prior to Texas and OK joining the SEC?


I listed two facts, and a third projection

The idea that Clemson was supposed to wallow in obscurity has been bantered about for decades due to the revenue gap (and lack of competition as well). Hence why I said I'd heard this discussion before over the years/decades.


I agreed that you listed two facts. Your speculation beyond that is still a different matter. That's not a knock, this thread has been full of speculation from all sides. Your back and forth about factual and logical was with another poster though.

 

[Maxcy]

You want me to privide links to my speculations?

I suppose we could table all conference realignment talk and pretend it doesn't exist until after official announcements are made. But that would put a damper on message board banter.

It's kinda hard to participate in a debate when one side of the equation can't lean on anything other than his/her own speculation.

 

[Maxcy]

I agree with you about the revenue gap being significant and will get larger. The current numbers and projected numbers back that up. You won't get any argument from me on that point. BUT, as I said the other day, I suspect that Clemson is diverting money from their other sports to feed their football monster. They'd eliminate other sports before letting football suffer. I believe their administration wants to leave so as to avoid starving their other sports for football. All this is speculation on my part but, believe it's logical speculation. By the way, I loathe Clemson as much as any Gamecock fan does.

It'd be hard to eliminate many other sports due to Title IX. They already cut swimming and diving about ten years ago. Baseball isn't going anywhere. Basketball isn't going anywhere. There are a lot of male scholarships that have to be offset. The opportunity to cut is minimal.

My question for you is do you really believe Dabo prefers playing the likes of Georgia, Florida, Alabama, LSU and Tennessee every year rather than the likes of NC State, Florida State, Louisville, North Carolina and Pitt? If so, why? I don't like Dabo and always felt he is a clown and a con artist. But, I have never thought of him as a fool. Again, that's speculation on my part. BUT I believe it's logical speculation.

CDS has made a living by feasting on football meals served up in the ACC. But everyone is aware that the college football landscape has changed significantly in the last few years due to (1) conference realignment, (2) NIL and (3) transfer portal. It doesn't really matter much what Swinney prefers at this point. In light of the current landscape, ACC football is in considerable trouble right now. Again, this is why CU is looking for an exit.

 

[SeaMountain]

Seems like they need us more than we need them.

 

[Deleted11512]

The idea that Clemson was supposed to wallow in obscurity has been bantered about for decades due to the revenue gap (and lack of competition as well). Hence why I said I'd heard this discussion before over the years/decades.


I agreed that you listed two facts. Your speculation beyond that is still a different matter. That's not a knock, this thread has been full of speculation from all sides. Your back and forth about factual and logical was with another poster though.

My prediction is the B12 is going to start throwing haymakers. There's still plenty of money in that conference. And they just need some muscle at the top. They're getting $100M from TX/OU early exit fee. They're already bringing in BYU, UCF, Cincy, & Houston. A lot has been made of them looking west. I'd be shocked if they didn't poke around the ACC with all the talk from FSU/Clem over the last couple of weeks.

Remember, back in 2012 it was rumored that Clem was considering joining the B12. So it's not that far out of the realm.

 

[Lurker123]

It's kinda hard to participate in a debate when one side of the equation can't lean on anything other than his/her own speculation.

I agree, speculating on the future of college football would be so much better if we could just cut out all the speculation.

Next time I'll just state that OU and Texas are joining the SEC, and that a new TV deal is upcoming. Those facts will tie up all discussions of teams outside the SEC nicely.

Have a nice day.

 

[Lurker123]

My prediction is the B12 is going to start throwing haymakers. There's still plenty of money in that conference. And they just need some muscle at the top. They're getting $100M from TX/OU early exit fee. They're already bringing in BYU, UCF, Cincy, & Houston. A lot has been made of them looking west. I'd be shocked if they didn't poke around the ACC with all the talk from FSU/Clem over the last couple of weeks.

Remember, back in 2012 it was rumored that Clem was considering joining the B12. So it's not that far out of the realm.

If not one of the big 2 conferences, the best hope for a lot of teams seems to be in the leftovers of the of the three P5 conferences.

 

[Deleted11512]

Seems like they need us more than we need them.

The SEC has now gone through 2 expansions without adding Clem. Perhaps they're just not interested.

 

[Lurker123]

The SEC has now gone through 2 expansions without adding Clem. Perhaps they're just not interested.

Make them sweat.

 

[Maxcy]

I agree, speculating on the future of college football would be so much better if we could just cut out all the speculation.

Next time I'll just state that OU and Texas are joining the SEC, and that a new TV deal is upcoming. Those facts will tie up all discussions of teams outside the SEC nicely.

Have a nice day.

You're missing the point. Again.

Debating 101 = you gotta do more than just regurgitate whatever comes to mind. Otherwise, you are not discussing or debating. You are just making things up.

 

[Maxcy]

Make them sweat.

Hey, we agree!! I've been saying this for about 24 hours now. Let CU waste away in the ACC.

 

[gamecock stock]

It'd be hard to eliminate many other sports due to Title IX. They already cut swimming and diving about ten years ago. Baseball isn't going anywhere. Basketball isn't going anywhere. There are a lot of male scholarships that have to be offset. The opportunity to cut is minimal.



CDS has made a living by feasting on football meals served up in the ACC. But everyone is aware that the college football landscape has changed significantly in the last few years due to (1) conference realignment, (2) NIL and (3) transfer portal. It doesn't really matter much what Swinney prefers at this point. In light of the current landscape, ACC football is in considerable trouble right now. Again, this is why CU is looking for an exit.

Trouble or not, Swinney is still recruiting very well, according to recruiting sites (5th, 10th and 12th). I don't think you would disagree with that because those are their current ranking numbers. They are going to be really good into the foreseeable future.

I get the sense that you agree also that Swinney wants no part of the SEC, which is what we are saying, too. He knows that if Clemson was to become a member of the SEC, it would mean higher numbers on the "Loss Column" for Clemson.

You make a good point about the Title IX restriction. Obviously, I don't know their budget. Would they sacrifice any of their mens golf, soccer, tennis, track and field and cross country sports if they had too in order to keep football at the level they have been? I would not put that past them to do that if they felt it was necessary. Their fans are "football-first" like we are and most Southern fans are.

I empathize with the feelings about keeping them out of the SEC. I really do. Part, probably a lot of me, says that if Clemson wants to be in the SEC, then "HELL NO!!!". They can "F O". The other part of me says that if it happens, it's not going make any difference in their recruiting because they already recruit at a high level being able to sell recruits they have an easy path to the playoffs. And they have not been hurting in their football budget. They are getting money from somewhere. I believe the only difference will be that their fans will get more entertaining games at DV.

So, the bottom-line for me is that if they never get into the SEC, I will join you and others and say....."GOOD". If they do get into the SEC, I'm not going to be upset because I don't see it changing the balance of power. Beamer is proving to be a really good recruiter and "game day coach". We will be fine....more than fine...no matter what.

 

[vacock]

You're missing the point. Again.

Debating 101 = you gotta do more than just regurgitate whatever comes to mind. Otherwise, you are not discussing or debating. You are just making things up.

I can regurgitate facts I’ll have you know.

Water can be chemically synthesized by burning rocket fuel.

Over consumption can cause excessive sweating, urination, and even death.

100% of all serial killers, rapists, and drug dealers have admitted to drinking water.

Water is one of the primary ingredients in herbicides and pesticides.

Water is the leading cause of drowning.

100% of all people exposed to water will die.

 

[SeaMountain]

The SEC has now gone through 2 expansions without adding Clem. Perhaps they're just not interested.

Perhaps they aren't wanted.

 

[benjicocky]

I'd sacrifice Clemson every single time if it meant opposing them in something they wanted. Leave them in the ACC to wither away! No SEC lifelines.

I really don't see Carolina dropping Clemson even with a 9 game SEC schedule, so I don't see the OP's question as anything beyond message board conversation.

Scratch them. It may have taken 50 years, but we are in the catbird seat right now. Even in the cat`s seat, we may still lose to them. However, I want them to squirm, complain, *****, cry...whatever.......just don`t want them to receive anything that improves their stock. They laughed at our independent status for years and I was here for each and every one of them......I was 20 when we got out of the ACC and watched it take 6 to 8 years to essentially kill men`s basketball. Any Gamecock fan that doesn`t mind Clemson being in the SEC isn`t old enough to understand how terrible those years were..........and how we suffered as Gamecock fans.

 

[Maxcy]

I can regurgitate facts I’ll have you know.

Water can be chemically synthesized by burning rocket fuel.

Over consumption can cause excessive sweating, urination, and even death.

100% of all serial killers, rapists, and drug dealers have admitted to drinking water.

Water is one of the primary ingredients in herbicides and pesticides.

Water is the leading cause of drowning.

100% of all people exposed to water will die.

The irony of your post is that, yes, all people exposed to water will die.

Thanks for trying, though.

 

[Maxcy]

Scratch them. It may have taken 50 years, but we are in the catbird seat right now. Even in the cat`s seat, we may still lose to them. However, I want them to squirm, complain, *****, cry...whatever.......just don`t want them to receive anything that improves their stock. They laughed at our independent status for years and I was here for each and every one of them......I was 20 when we got out of the ACC and watched it take 6 to 8 years to essentially kill men`s basketball. Any Gamecock fan that doesn`t mind Clemson being in the SEC isn`t old enough to understand how terrible those years were..........and how we suffered as Gamecock fans.

Thank you, Mr Benji - that's a good summation. It's surprising that so many other people aren't paying attention.

 

[Lurker123]

You're missing the point. Again.

Debating 101 = you gotta do more than just regurgitate whatever comes to mind. Otherwise, you are not discussing or debating. You are just making things up.

Your opinion is noted.

 

[Lurker123]

The irony of your post is that, yes, all people exposed to water will die.

Thanks for trying, though.

All the facts he posted are true, not just the last one. I think you missed his point.

 

[Maxcy]

Trouble or not, Swinney is still recruiting very well, according to recruiting sites (5th, 10th and 12th). I don't think you would disagree with that because those are their current ranking numbers. They are going to be really good into the foreseeable future.

$105MM vs $50MM is not sustainable.

I get the sense that you agree also that Swinney wants no part of the SEC, which is what we are saying, too. He knows that if Clemson was to become a member of the SEC, it would mean higher numbers on the "Loss Column" for Clemson.

Nah...I don't necessarily agree with that. My belief is that it doesn't really matter what Swinney wants. The broader point is that the ACC is about to swirl the drain. We'd be doing well to stand back and just watch it happen.

You make a good point about the Title IX restriction. Obviously, I don't know their budget. Would they sacrifice any of their mens golf, soccer, tennis, track and field and cross country sports if they had too in order to keep football at the level they have been? I would not put that past them to do that if they felt it was necessary. Their fans are "football-first" like we are and most Southern fans are.

You have Title IX issues. And then you have PR issues with cancelling all sports but football. That just isn't feasible. At all.

I empathize with the feelings about keeping them out of the SEC. I really do. Part, probably a lot of me, says that if Clemson wants to be in the SEC, then "HELL NO!!!". They can "F O". The other part of me says that if it happens, it's not going make any difference in their recruiting because they already recruit at a high level being able to sell recruits they have an easy path to the playoffs. And they have not been hurting in their football budget. They are getting money from somewhere. I believe the only difference will be that their fans will get more entertaining games at DV.

CU doesn't have issues with money today. But they will very soon if they don't make some kind of move. I've said this previously...if CU stays in the ACC and has to absorb the pending revenue discrepancy, they will be Cincinatti v2.0 by the year 2030. They will not be recruiting then like they are now.

So, the bottom-line for me is that if they never get into the SEC, I will join you and others and say....."GOOD". If they do get into the SEC, I'm not going to be upset because I don't see it changing the balance of power. Beamer is proving to be a really good recruiter and "game day coach". We will be fine....more than fine...no matter what.

There are $50MM+ annual reasons why we don't want CU in the SEC. I'm not sure why you seem to be ignoring that small factoid.

 

[Lurker123]

However, I want them to squirm, complain, *****, cry...whatever.......just don`t want them to receive anything that improves their stock.

I think every poster on this thread agrees with this. The disconnect is that some think bringing them into the SEC will hurt them, long term, while others think the opposite.

 

[Maxcy]

All the facts he posted are true, not just the last one. I think you missed his point.

The last fact is true as well. Everyone on the planet is (1) exposed to water and (2) will die at some point.

 

[Maxcy]

Your opinion is noted.

Eh, what??

 

[Lurker123]

The last fact is true as well. Everyone on the planet is (1) exposed to water and (2) will die at some point.

Agreed, they are all true. It's not ironic that the last one is true, all of them are true.

 

[vacock]

The irony of your post is that, yes, all people exposed to water will die.

Thanks for trying, though.

Jokes are sometimes hard to get for some people.

 

[Maxcy]

Agreed, they are all true. It's not ironic that the last one is true, all of them are true.

Absolutely - they are as true as the facts and related conclusions that I've been presenting in this thread. It's ironic that an attempt to poke fun at my position is actually well aligned with it.

 

[Maxcy]

Jokes are sometimes hard to get for some people.

Good jokes tend to be funny.

 

[Lurker123]

Absolutely - they are as true as the facts and related conclusions that I've been presenting in this thread. It's ironic that an attempt to poke fun at my position is actually well aligned with it.

Well, that's one approach when you miss a joke. You do you, I guess.

 

[gamecock stock]

$105MM vs $50MM is not sustainable.



Nah...I don't necessarily agree with that. My belief is that it doesn't really matter what Swinney wants. The broader point is that the ACC is about to swirl the drain. We'd be doing well to stand back and just watch it happen.



You have Title IX issues. And then you have PR issues with cancelling all sports but football. That just isn't feasible. At all.



CU doesn't have issues with money today. But they will very soon if they don't make some kind of move. I've said this previously...if CU stays in the ACC and has to absorb the pending revenue discrepancy, they will be Cincinatti v2.0 by the year 2030. They will not be recruiting then like they are now.



There are $50MM+ annual reasons why we don't want CU in the SEC. I'm not sure why you seem to be ignoring that small factoid.

You are ignoring the appeal to recruits to play for the national championship. Clemson has an easy road into the playoffs, especially when conference champions get a "bye". I don't care what the money differential will be. When Clemson wins the ACC, they will get into the playoffs automatically and also get a "bye". And they usually win the ACC.

Forget whether or not it matters. So you really believe Dabo prefers going into the SEC over staying in the ACC?

PR issues did not stop Clemson from canceling other sports. So, I would not bet on that stopping them in the future. Not saying they would cancel all. I am saying they would do a cost/benefit analyses and cancel selectively. And I can guarantee that their fans would not mind as long as it helps their football program. And if you think they will care what outsiders think, you are not being realistic.

 

[Kawalski]

I want them in the SEC, I want them to play an SEC schedule and be beat down after a conference season and end the easy path to the playoffs every year AND continue to play us.

 

[Lurker123]

PR issues did not stop Clemson from canceling other sports. So, I would not bet on that stopping them in the future. Not saying they would cancel all. I am saying they would do a cost/benefit analyses and cancel selectively. And I can guarantee that their fans would not mind as long as it helps their football program. And if you think they will care what outsiders think, you are not being realistic.

If I'm being honest, I would be willing to sacrifice some of the smaller sports if it actually meant improving the football team. I'm just one of those "football first" kind of fans.

 

[Deleted11512]

You are ignoring the appeal to recruits to play for the national championship. Clemson has an easy road into the playoffs, especially when conference champions get a "bye". I don't care what the money differential will be. When Clemson wins the ACC, they will get into the playoffs automatically and also get a "bye". And they usually win the ACC.

Forget whether or not it matters. So you really believe Dabo prefers going into the SEC over staying in the ACC?

PR issues did not stop Clemson from canceling other sports. So, I would not bet on that stopping them in the future. Not saying they would cancel all. I am saying they would do a cost/benefit analyses and cancel selectively. And I can guarantee that their fans would not mind as long as it helps their football program. And if you think they will care what outsiders think, you are not being realistic.

Dabo wants no part of the SEC. The SEC means the end of his cake walk. It doesn't matter how much money they're brining in or not bringing in. "Hey kid, we own the ACC, and therefore get an auto bid to the Playoff and a round one bye. Want to come play for championships or get your head beat in by the SEC every week?" And that pitch will get even better through expansion. "Now you have to play 9 SEC games, and potentially 17 games. That's doable in the ACC, not the SEC".

As long as they can keep the money close, either in the ACC, revamped B12, or B10, they'll avoid the SEC at all costs.