About Jamont and the cheating accusations

Stormrider81

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I'm gonna hit on both topics.

First Jamont. Jamont Gordon is the best player our basketball program has seen since Donta Jones. In some ways he might be considered better since he can bring the ball up the court and go straight to the rack almost at will. When we signed Jamont it was a huge deal. His first year he was basically all we had and was forced to carry the team. Since then he's had a better supporting cast and has had to adjust, and I think he's done a good job. He's grown less selfish over time. Still, if you are as good as Jamont you need to be a little selfish because there are times the team needs him to put them on his shoulders and carry them. The final minutes of the Memphis game is a perfect example. He single handedly gave us a chance to tie.

What was Stansbury supposed to do? Not run the offense through Rhodes and Jamont? Run it through Ben and Barry even though they are notoriously inconsistent shooters and cannot create their own shot half as well as Jamont? If Stansbury didn't run his offense through Rhodes and Jamont he would get heavily criticized for it, and rightfully so. On top of that Jamont would have left long ago, and without him this year we would have been NIT bound aGAIN. The things he did for us - creating shots for others, the defense, the rebounding, the huge baskets when the team needed to stop a run by the opposition - we don't have anyone else that could do those things. Rhodes and V need the ball fed to them in the post. Ben and Barry need open looks, and even then they are far more likely to miss than hit. And let's not even get into all the times Jamont is fouled in the paint and it goes uncalled, which are numerous. I fail to see any justification for Ben to be unhappy with his role with respect to Jamont's. I don't know why people are so against us running our offense through Jamont, it seems like a total no brainer to anyone. The guy takes some terrible shot at times, but every player takes bad shots here and there. When the game was on the line Jamont was the guy stepping up to take the load. Jamont is hated on here for some reason, but I'm telling you we will miss him badly once he's gone.

About the cheating, here's my take. I'm not saying we don't cheat. I don't know, I'm not inside the program. What I do know is the NCAA investigated every sport when they were here in the early part of this decade and they did so throroughly. They really wanted to fin something wrong so they could really hammer us. They found nothing in basketball. They also looked heavily at Mario Austin after receiving complaints and found nothing to warrant not allowing him to play. We've long heard Stansbury referred to as a cheater, but with all of these accusations there has been nothing turned up. Again, I'm not saying he isn't cheating, but it seems highly unlikely that we are paying players at the level some are suggesting. I find it interesting that MSU, a school known to not be on the NCAAs favored schools list, hasn't been found to have done anything against the rules in hoops by the NCAA yet our fans know so much about all this rampant cheating.
 

Stormrider81

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I'm gonna hit on both topics.

First Jamont. Jamont Gordon is the best player our basketball program has seen since Donta Jones. In some ways he might be considered better since he can bring the ball up the court and go straight to the rack almost at will. When we signed Jamont it was a huge deal. His first year he was basically all we had and was forced to carry the team. Since then he's had a better supporting cast and has had to adjust, and I think he's done a good job. He's grown less selfish over time. Still, if you are as good as Jamont you need to be a little selfish because there are times the team needs him to put them on his shoulders and carry them. The final minutes of the Memphis game is a perfect example. He single handedly gave us a chance to tie.

What was Stansbury supposed to do? Not run the offense through Rhodes and Jamont? Run it through Ben and Barry even though they are notoriously inconsistent shooters and cannot create their own shot half as well as Jamont? If Stansbury didn't run his offense through Rhodes and Jamont he would get heavily criticized for it, and rightfully so. On top of that Jamont would have left long ago, and without him this year we would have been NIT bound aGAIN. The things he did for us - creating shots for others, the defense, the rebounding, the huge baskets when the team needed to stop a run by the opposition - we don't have anyone else that could do those things. Rhodes and V need the ball fed to them in the post. Ben and Barry need open looks, and even then they are far more likely to miss than hit. And let's not even get into all the times Jamont is fouled in the paint and it goes uncalled, which are numerous. I fail to see any justification for Ben to be unhappy with his role with respect to Jamont's. I don't know why people are so against us running our offense through Jamont, it seems like a total no brainer to anyone. The guy takes some terrible shot at times, but every player takes bad shots here and there. When the game was on the line Jamont was the guy stepping up to take the load. Jamont is hated on here for some reason, but I'm telling you we will miss him badly once he's gone.

About the cheating, here's my take. I'm not saying we don't cheat. I don't know, I'm not inside the program. What I do know is the NCAA investigated every sport when they were here in the early part of this decade and they did so throroughly. They really wanted to fin something wrong so they could really hammer us. They found nothing in basketball. They also looked heavily at Mario Austin after receiving complaints and found nothing to warrant not allowing him to play. We've long heard Stansbury referred to as a cheater, but with all of these accusations there has been nothing turned up. Again, I'm not saying he isn't cheating, but it seems highly unlikely that we are paying players at the level some are suggesting. I find it interesting that MSU, a school known to not be on the NCAAs favored schools list, hasn't been found to have done anything against the rules in hoops by the NCAA yet our fans know so much about all this rampant cheating.
 
J

JR

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Rick doesnt run an offense, his concept is to find one guy run the offense through that one guy and everyone else plays defense and rebounds.
He did it with Roberts
He did it with Mario

If you are not that one guy, tough luck. At least with Mario and Roberts they had to have a team mate get them the ball so that it LOOKED like team ball. They couldnt just take it down the court and...wait, how did you put it?
can bring the ball up the court and go straight to the rack almost at will.
Between a cream puff OOC schedule and finding that one star player, its a concept thats almost guaranteed to get you 20 wins a season, and a NCAA everyother year or so.
We get, it works. It doesnt look like a concept that will get us into the sweet 16, but who knows maybe one day it will.
As you are fond of saying, who could MSU get that would do better?
 

DowntownDawg

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...I agree with you completely on Jamont. He needs to have the ball in his hands, and the offense needed to run through Bread and Butter, like it did the latter part of the season. Where I would disagree slightly is our strategy at the end of games over Jamont's tenure. He almost always took the shot. And if we need a three, I'd rather see him penetrate and kick to Ben or Randy than throw up a 35 footer off the dribble with a hand in his face. Against Memphis, I would rather Ben have taken that shot than Jamont dribbling off his leg and throwing up a prayer, all for the simple reason that the whole world knew he wasn't going to pass. And it's been like that from day one.

It's speculation, but I do think that Jamont was "handled with care" by Stansbury, and I think that manifests itself on the court by him taking the last shot every time, but really in no other way. I have seen Rick get in Ben's face and not say a word to Jamont when Jamont screwed up worse. That kind of thing. I admit that I'm not at practice, so I don't really know what's going on there. There are obviously some conflicts. And the other thing I'll say about it is that if you write off Ervin, Sharpe, Houston, Jackson, Cowherd, Rimmer, Goodridge, Boswell, and whoever else as either bad apples or transfers initiated by Rick (maybe stretching it some, but not too much), then the other common denominator with losing the Delks and Ben is Jamont. He may not be a great "locker room" guy. Who knows? At this point, I am hoping the problems revolve around him and not Stansbury, since Jamont will be gone in a year at most. Maybe then we can build some program stability.

As far as the cheating goes, I don't know that we are worse than anybody else. I am pretty sure we do it. I am pretty sure lots of other teams do it. I am pretty sure that Coach Cal's program is not squeaky clean, but for whatever reason, he is able to manage them and keep them happy. Pearl is the same way. I don't know why Stansbury can't keep his guys happy, but I believe it has something to do with a lack of respect that the team has for him. And I have no idea how that's going to change, but it's going to have to change if we are ever going to get to the next level.
 
J

JR

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Lawrence Roberts>Mario Austin>Jamont Gordon

The team Mario was on won a SECT, and I dont think he had better supporting talent than Swat and Chuck
 

MSUCostanza

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you are smoking crack if you think Austin > Gordon.

Roberts is debatable at least. But Mario Austin? Jeebus.
 

awalkerdog

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There is no way in hell Mario Austin is better than Gordon.

Hell, Charles Rhodes > Mario Austin.
 

patdog

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A couple of times per game you can tell the second he gets the ball in the backcourt that he's going to dribble down to close to the 3-point line and jack up a 3 with 25 seconds left on the shot clock. He's a great player, but that stuff has cost us at least one game (South Alabama this year).
 

DowntownDawg

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Zimmerman, Patterson, Gholar, Ignerski>>>>Ben, Randy, Jarvis and Charles, which is why one team was a 3 seed, and the other was an 8.
 

MSUCostanza

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Obviously Zim > Randy and Ben. But are you kidding me with the rest? Ignerski and Gholar > Rhodes and Varnado? Patterson couldn't hold either of their jock straps either. Do you believe half the **** you type?
 

DowntownDawg

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a three seed vs. an 8 seed. I don't think Ignerski and Gholar were better than Rhodes and Varnado individually, but that lineup overall had more success. Iggy was tough to defend, man. Could shoot the line drive 3. We also had alot of success sticking him out on top in that 1-3-1. That was a good team. Talent and potential wise, Rhodes could've been the best player in MSU history. He had a nice senior year, but overall didn't live up to what he could've been. Varnado will be great before it's over, but I'm talking about what we've seen so far and what they were when they were at MSU. Zimmerman and Patterson so far outweigh Ben and Randy it's not even funny. That was the second best team in the Stansbury era, and this year's team would probably rank 4th at best.
 

Dawgbreeze

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Pat, not to disaagree with you but Charles went up to the line at the end of the South Alabama game losing by 2 and missed either both free throws or a one in one. I simply remember that had he made them, we probably would have won. I am not disagreeing with you about Jamont taking the last shots on several occasions but I also know, if we didn't have him, we would be nowhere as close to good as we were this year.
 

VegasDawg13

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Saying that Mario's supporting cast was better than Gordon's makes you ask if that person is serious.

Saying that Mario Austin is better than Jamont Gordon means you are smoking crack.

Yet Mario's team was better than Jamont's team.

My calculator must be broken.</p>
 

Stormrider81

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Austin > Gordon? Really? That's the dumbest thing you've posted in quite some time. Austin was only effective after getting the ball fed to him right at the basket and then turned into a flopper his Junior year. As far as supporting cast goes, Timmy Bowers came off the bench in 2002, nothing more needs to be said about that year's team. 2003 was the best backcourt we've had possibly ever. Bowers and Zimmerman starting, Frazier off the bench. Those teams were also more consistent 3 point shooting teams as well (I didn't say better, mind you). Not downing on our current team, but those teams were just more talented all around, and didn't have any headcases on them.

About Roberts. I like the guy, he is still one of my alltime favorite bulldogs. I think there should be a #4 hanging in the Hump right now. That said, no way Roberts is better than Gordon in pure ability. Roberts had absolutely no face-up game. Much like Austin he had to be deep in the post to be effective, unlike Austin he always went up with power rather than flopping. The dude had amazing hands and an uncanny ability to rebound (he had 20 in regulation against Bama in 2004), but overall Gordon is simply better.

I'm not trying to bash on any player we've had here, but I don't think anyone we've had since '96 is better than Gordon. He impacts the game in so many ways, some that do not show up on a stat sheet, it's just ridiculous.
 

dogfan96

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MSUCostanza said:
you are smoking crack if you think Austin > Gordon.

Roberts is debatable at least. But Mario Austin? Jeebus.

</p> Lawrence Roberts was 1st Team All-America and SEC Player of the Year... are you crazy?
 

patdog

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Gordon was 3rd team All-American and was 1 of only 2 unanimous All-SEC selections, and is only a junior. I think most people (including me) would say Roberts was a better player. But I do think some arguments could be made for Jamont too.
 

dogfan96

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patdog said:
Gordon was 3rd team All-American and was 1 of only 2 unanimous All-SEC selections, and is only a junior. I think most people (including me) would say Roberts was a better player. But I do think some arguments could be made for Jamont too.

</p>
 

MSUCostanza

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you believe that Ignerski and Patterson and Gholar are better than Rhodes and Varnado?

Because that's what he's saying. There is no question that Zim/Bowers > Ben and Randy. There is also no question that Gordon is better than Mario. If you believe the opposite, I can't help you.

Overall the 03 team was better, but he's trying to argue that Mario is better than Gordon because the entire team was better, which is a pretty long stretch of an argument.
 

DowntownDawg

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but he's trying to argue that Mario is better than Gordon because the entire team was better
I don't know if you are talking about me, but I never said Mario was better than Gordon. I don't think that's the case at all. But Austin's supporting cast was much better. I mean, the initial comparison was a point guard to a center, so how ridiculous do you want to make this thread?
 

Porkchop.sixpack

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and still not think he is one of the best players in modern MSU basketball? I just don't think he is that great of a player. But, I do think he was better this year than last. And I think he will be better next year than he was this year. So, I am all about keeping him.

I have to tell you-- there were a lot of games I thought he played like ****. And that whole thing he does where he drives the lane and ends up with the both hands 4 feet apart up in the air and his legs the same way and the ball nowhere around really is horrible.

So, can I agree that I want to keep him without building some statue of him outside the hump?
 

VegasDawg13

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What I'm saying is that you acted like it was idiotic to claim that Austin was better than Gordon. You also acted like it was idiotic to claim that Austin's supporting cast was better than Gordon's. If you were right about both of these things (that Gordon is much better than Austin and Gordon's supporting cast is much better than Austin's), then this year team should have been much better than that team. They weren't; actually, they weren't even as good.
 

Coach34

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I'd take Darryl Wilson over Gordon. He could shoot the hell out of it and is one of the SEC's best 3 pt shooters in history. Defenses had to chase the hell out him which opened other players to score. We even made a Sweet 16 with him before we added Dontae. And while I know we had Dampier, he wasnt much of an offensive threat his Soph year.
 

Stormrider81

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Have you people watched us the past 3 years? Rhodes is a great talent when he decides to play, which has only consistently happened two times in his career - the 2006 and 2008 conference games. V is getting better and is an impact player, but we've only had him in this form for one season thus far. Other than that this is a pretty untalented group of players. Ben and Barry, and even the Delks, are notoriously inconsistent shooters.

Even when he has an off night shooting he fills the stat line with assists and rebounds. His defense is really underrated. His ability to draw the defense and then pass to a teammate is crucial on this team considering most players cannot create their own shot consistently. Take him off this team and we are NIT bound, even if you traded him for Wilson in Peaches' scenario. Take him off last year's team and we possibly don't even make the NIT, or are a much lower seed and don't make it to NY. I can say with utmost confidence that we aren't back to back West champs without him.

The Jamont hate boggles the mind. He has moments where you want to go slap him, but you also have to realize all the things he brings to this team.
 

fishwater99

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Stormrider81 wrote: _________________________________________________ The Jamont hate boggles the mind. He has moments where you want to go slap him, but you also have to realize all the things he brings to this team.

I don't hate J-Money.
</p>I think he is a great player and I hope he gets his *** back to Starkville soon.
We won more games this year with him than he cost us with his selfish play at the end of games.
I just wish he would become more of a team player and use all of his abilities to further help our basketball team.
Your number one priority as a point guard should be to get your teammates involved via assists, not scoring yourself and looking to make ESPN highlights.
 

Porkchop.sixpack

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This isn't like you.....Just because I don't think he is one of our best players ever doesn't mean I can't stand him or want him to leave. The only thing I hate is that mid air jumping jack thing he does right before losing the ball.
 

Bulldog Backer

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Stormrider81 said:
I'm gonna hit on both topics.

First Jamont. Jamont Gordon is the best player our basketball program has seen since Donta Jones. In some ways he might be considered better since he can bring the ball up the court and go straight to the rack almost at will. When we signed Jamont it was a huge deal. His first year he was basically all we had and was forced to carry the team. Since then he's had a better supporting cast and has had to adjust, and I think he's done a good job. He's grown less selfish over time. Still, if you are as good as Jamont you need to be a little selfish because there are times the team needs him to put them on his shoulders and carry them. The final minutes of the Memphis game is a perfect example. He single handedly gave us a chance to tie.

What was Stansbury supposed to do? Not run the offense through Rhodes and Jamont? Run it through Ben and Barry even though they are notoriously inconsistent shooters and cannot create their own shot half as well as Jamont? If Stansbury didn't run his offense through Rhodes and Jamont he would get heavily criticized for it, and rightfully so. On top of that Jamont would have left long ago, and without him this year we would have been NIT bound aGAIN. The things he did for us - creating shots for others, the defense, the rebounding, the huge baskets when the team needed to stop a run by the opposition - we don't have anyone else that could do those things. Rhodes and V need the ball fed to them in the post. Ben and Barry need open looks, and even then they are far more likely to miss than hit. And let's not even get into all the times Jamont is fouled in the paint and it goes uncalled, which are numerous. I fail to see any justification for Ben to be unhappy with his role with respect to Jamont's. I don't know why people are so against us running our offense through Jamont, it seems like a total no brainer to anyone. The guy takes some terrible shot at times, but every player takes bad shots here and there. When the game was on the line Jamont was the guy stepping up to take the load. Jamont is hated on here for some reason, but I'm telling you we will miss him badly once he's gone.

About the cheating, here's my take. I'm not saying we don't cheat. I don't know, I'm not inside the program. What I do know is the NCAA investigated every sport when they were here in the early part of this decade and they did so throroughly. They really wanted to fin something wrong so they could really hammer us. They found nothing in basketball. They also looked heavily at Mario Austin after receiving complaints and found nothing to warrant not allowing him to play. We've long heard Stansbury referred to as a cheater, but with all of these accusations there has been nothing turned up. Again, I'm not saying he isn't cheating, but it seems highly unlikely that we are paying players at the level some are suggesting. I find it interesting that MSU, a school known to not be on the NCAAs favored schools list, hasn't been found to have done anything against the rules in hoops by the NCAA yet our fans know so much about all this rampant cheating.

Jamont Gordon was repeatedly acknowledged the toughest matchup in college basketball at the point guard. He is still a work in progress though. He can look absolutely brilliant on some days, and ordinary others. How many players have had a triple double. Lawrence Roberts had the only other one. If I were to choose 10 players since the 1996 Final Four team to be on my team, they would be:</p>

PG: Jamont Gordon</p>

SG: Timmy Bowers</p>

SF: Dontae Jones</p>

PF: Lawrence Roberts</p>

C: Erick Dampier</p>C/F: Jarvis Varnado

SG: Super D

SF/PF: Branden Vincent

PG: Derrick Zimmerman</p>WF: Shane Power

I chose Timmy Bowers to start over Super D because he was a better defender, better rebounder, and one of the best clutch shooters we ever had. Super D would be instant offense. I almost put Dietric Slater in at 3, instead of Shane Power, because he played great defense and lead the team in strawberries every year.
</p>

As for the cheating crap, it is pure crap. Alumni sometimes do things they shouldn't, but I don't believe for a moment that Stansbury intentionally cheats. If he did, then Scottie Hopson would still be a Dawg!
</p>

</p>

</p>

</p>
 

patdog

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Power is our career 3-point FG% leader at 41.7%. Frazier shot only 34.6%. When he was hot, there was nobody hotter. But when he was cold, he was ice cold. Interesting fact: One sixth of Frazier's career 3-pointers came in only 4 games.
 
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