ACC scenario

[pseudonym]

Three ACC teams are undefeated in the conference: Miami, SMU, and Clemson. SMU and Clemson both have one non-con loss.

None of them play each other in the regular season, meaning there is a chance they all finish 8-0 in the ACC. The ACC championship game participants would be determined by conference opponent win percentage.

The team left out would probably be in the CFP as an at-large bid at 11-1 (or 12-0 in the case of Miami). SMU or Clemson would probably be knocked out with a loss in the championship game.

The scenario that I see getting three ACC teams in the CFP:

1. 11-1 SMU OR Clemson is left out of the ACC championship game and in the CFP as an at-large.
2. 11-1 SMU OR Clemson defeats Miami in the ACC championship game and gets a CFP top-4 seed/bye.
3. 12-0 Miami loses the ACC championship game and gets in the CFP as an at-large.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

This is why conference title games need to be eliminated. A team should not lose ground by losing a conference championship game, but it always happens, and will continue to happen. It's not like basketball and baseball tournaments, where there are things to gain for bubble teams and little to lose for surefire tournament teams.

In this case, all 3 are conference co-champions. Who cares, it spreads wealth around. Gives fanbases hope when they hang a banner.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

This is why conference title games need to be eliminated. A team should not lose ground by losing a conference championship game, but it always happens, and will continue to happen. It's not like basketball and baseball tournaments, where there are things to gain for bubble teams and little to lose for surefire tournament teams.

In this case, all 3 are conference co-champions. Who cares, it spreads wealth around. Gives fanbases hope when they hang a banner.

The Big 12 did this ten years ago when they made TCU & Baylor co-champs but didn’t lobby for one to make the first playoff.

The Big 12 was shut out of the playoofs that season.

 

[00Dawg]

In this case, all 3 are conference co-champions. Who cares, it spreads wealth around. Gives fanbases hope when they hang a banner.

Except when the championships are division ones. I was told those are dogmeat, and people who thought the SEC should keep them are trash.

 

[HailStout]

In this case, all 3 are conference co-champions. Who cares, it spreads wealth around. Gives fanbases hope when they hang a banner.

Oxford approves

 

[OG Goat Holder]

The Big 12 did this ten years ago when they made TCU & Baylor co-champs but didn’t lobby for one to make the first playoff.

The Big 12 was shut out of the playoofs that season.

The national playoff would have to change their model too, but it can easily be done. Basically require again, the 5 or 6 or whatever highest ranked conference champs automatically get in (5 or 6 from separate conferences).

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

The Big 12 was shut out of the playoofs that season.

But what about the playoffs?

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

This is why conference title games need to be eliminated.

Those of us who love watching great teams play good games when something is on the line strongly disagree.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

But what about the playoffs?

Couldn’t resist the old RSFC Usenet schtick.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Those of us who love watching great teams play good games when something is on the line strongly disagree.

More is on the line during the playoff.

 

[We Men]

I think Miami is overrated. And probably Smu or Clemson would beat them.

 

[Willow Grove Dawg]

I cannot imagine a scenario that would get 3 ACC Teams in the Playoff. The SEC & Big 10 just will not allow it to happen.

 

[MStateDawg]

Basically require again, the 5 or 6 or whatever highest ranked conference champs automatically get in

The 5 highest rated conference champions (any conference) do get auto bids into the 12 team playoff with the 4 highest rated receiving the top 4 seeds (i.e., 1st round bye).

Example: let's say Texas & UGA finish ranked 1 & 2 in the final poll, but Texas beats UGA in the conference championship game. Georgia, despite being ranked no. 2, will NOT get one of the top 4 seeds. Those go to the highest rated conference champs.

 

[HuntDawg]

Each have 5 football games left. It would only take 1 loss by any of those teams to clear all this up.

My guess is just like there were 1000 SEC scenarios 2 weeks ago.. they are slowly playing themselves out.... this will play itself out as well.

The ACC will likely get two schools in however, which will eliminate the sec getting 5.

 

[Perd Hapley]

The 5 highest rated conference champions (any conference) do get auto bids into the 12 team playoff with the 4 highest rated receiving the top 4 seeds (i.e., 1st round bye).

The 4 highest conference champs getting the top four seeds is, by far, the biggest problem. Some number of conference champs getting assured of a bid overall is not a big deal. But assuring any of them a Top 4 slot is a damn joke….particularly when its the ACC and Big 12 this year.

Hot take - when there are 16+ teams in a every conference, and nobody plays more than 8 or 9 of the other teams, there really are NO conferences, which means there are NO conference champs. There are just loosely arranged scheduling partnerships.

The only ways to remedy that is to play 10-12 conference games in the regular season, have a 6-8 team conference tournament to crown a champion before the CFP, or just get rid of the conference champion inside-straight draw to an automatic CFP bid or bye. And everyone knows that only one of those 3 options is both realistic and beneficial.

 

[HuntDawg]

The 4 highest conference champs getting the top four seeds is, by far, the biggest problem. Some number of conference champs getting assured of a bid overall is not a big deal. But assuring any of them a Top 4 slot is a damn joke….particularly when its the ACC and Big 12 this year.

Hot take - when there are 16+ teams in a every conference, and nobody plays more than 8 or 9 of the other teams, there really are NO conferences, which means there are NO conference champs. There are just loosely arranged scheduling partnerships.

The only ways to remedy that is to play 10-12 conference games in the regular season, have a 6-8 team conference tournament to crown a champion before the CFP, or just get rid of the conference champion inside-straight draw to an automatic CFP bid or bye. And everyone knows that only one of those 3 options is both realistic and beneficial.

or go back to divisons. East winner and west winner play each other. 8 team east, 8 team west... 7 conference games inside each divison. 1 cross over opponent.

plenty of solutions. I'm sure it'll get figured out.

 

[patdog]

or go back to divisons. East winner and west winner play each other. 8 team east, 8 team west... 7 conference games inside each divison. 1 cross over opponent.

plenty of solutions. I'm sure it'll get figured out.

Still problems there. You essentially have 2 separate conferences at that point. And you still don't have equitable schedules because one team is going to play the best team in the other division for their crossover game and another is going to play the worst. The truth of the matter is the SEC has NEVER had schedule equatability in its entire history. And they really don't care. The real problem is these conferences are just too damn big. Instead of a Big 2 and Next 2 with 16-20 teams each, we need 7 major conferences with about 10 teams each. Let's say we call them the SEC, Big 10, Big East, ACC, Big 8, Southwest and PAC-10.

 

[HuntDawg]

Still problems there. You essentially have 2 separate conferences at that point. And you still don't have equitable schedules because one team is going to play the best team in the other division for their crossover game and another is going to play the worst. The truth of the matter is the SEC has NEVER had schedule equatability in its entire history. And they really don't care. The real problem is these conferences are just too damn big. Instead of a Big 2 and Next 2 with 16-20 teams each, we need 7 major conferences with about 10 teams each. Let's say we call them the SEC, Big 10, Big East, ACC, Big 8, Southwest and PAC-12.

I mean yea.. but thats how its been in the past. And its way more fair that the current set up. There were always times where two good teams in the same divison had to play and one get left out of the championship game. And there were always time where the crossover didnt work out exactly the way you hoped.

There is no equitable schedule in football anywhere. Even the NFL. Its pointless to try. SEC teams can complain that they play tougher schedules that the ACC and all the way on down... if thats what youre after thats never going to happen and its never happened.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

The 5 highest rated conference champions (any conference) do get auto bids into the 12 team playoff with the 4 highest rated receiving the top 4 seeds (i.e., 1st round bye).

Example: let's say Texas & UGA finish ranked 1 & 2 in the final poll, but Texas beats UGA in the conference championship game. Georgia, despite being ranked no. 2, will NOT get one of the top 4 seeds. Those go to the highest rated conference champs.

I don't think you're following me.

I'm talking an overall plan. Playoff is expanded to 16 teams. Conference title games are eliminated, for one, because they aren't relevant, and two, they are replaced by an additional game slate of playoff games. So money isn't diminished. And in this new 16 team playoff, you can guarantee that no major conference champion (determined by records) is not left out by required some number (my example is 5-6) highest rated champs getting an auto-invite. This makes sure that the SEC, B1G, ACC, Big 12 and one or two other conferences are assured of a spot, rather than the SEC/B1G getting 5-6 auto spots themselves, in the case they have 2-3 co-champs.

 

[patdog]

I don't think you're following me.

I'm talking an overall plan. Playoff is expanded to 16 teams. Conference title games are eliminated, for one, because they aren't relevant, and two, they are replaced by an additional game slate of playoff games. So money isn't diminished. And in this new 16 team playoff, you can guarantee that no major conference champion (determined by records) is not left out by required some number (my example is 5-6) highest rated champs getting an auto-invite. This makes sure that the SEC, B1G, ACC, Big 12 and one or two other conferences are assured of a spot, rather than the SEC/B1G getting 5-6 auto spots themselves, in the case they have 2-3 co-champs.

We're already at 12-team playoff (probably 14 starting in 2026) with the conference championship games. They're not going to eliminate those money making championship games just to add a couple more playoff games. They're going to add the playoff games and keep the championship games (no matter how meaningless they are). You're underestimating greed and the power of money. Especially when the Big 10 and SEC are involved.

 

[HuntDawg]

I don't think you're following me.

I'm talking an overall plan. Playoff is expanded to 16 teams. Conference title games are eliminated, for one, because they aren't relevant, and two, they are replaced by an additional game slate of playoff games. So money isn't diminished. And in this new 16 team playoff, you can guarantee that no major conference champion (determined by records) is not left out by required some number (my example is 5-6) highest rated champs getting an auto-invite. This makes sure that the SEC, B1G, ACC, Big 12 and one or two other conferences are assured of a spot, rather than the SEC/B1G getting 5-6 auto spots themselves, in the case they have 2-3 co-champs.

Right i agree with this.

I think the championship week could very well be eliminated, to shorten the season, and they wont miss the money because there are 2 extra rounds of playoff games now.

Again this is year 1, and somewhat thrown together, with a lot of movement conference wise as well. I would assume in 2 years a lot of the kinks will be worked out.... and more playoff expansion

 

[OG Goat Holder]

We're already at 12-team playoff (probably 14 starting in 2026) with the conference championship games. They're not going to eliminate those money making championship games just to add a couple more playoff games. They're going to add the playoff games and keep the championship games (no matter how meaningless they are). You're underestimating greed and the power of money. Especially when the Big 10 and SEC are involved.

Well you can go on with that forever. Just expand to 32, 64, who cares, it’s more money. At some point a restricter plate has to be put on.

 

[HuntDawg]

Well you can go on with that forever. Just expand to 32, 64, who cares, it’s more money. At some point a restricter plate has to be put on.

add in the fact that there is already a major concern about the length of the season. Something will change.

Right now there is a possbility a team will have to play 17 games to win a championship, and the championship game roll into February if the calendar doesnt fall right.... i cant see that continuing to be the case moving forward

 

[OG Goat Holder]

add in the fact that there is already a major concern about the length of the season. Something will change.

Right now there is a possbility a team will have to play 17 games to win a championship, and the championship game roll into February if the calendar doesnt fall right.... i cant see that continuing to be the case moving forward

Agree, but I do think NIL and bigger rosters gives them ammunition to expand a little bit.

 

[patdog]

add in the fact that there is already a major concern about the length of the season. Something will change.

Right now there is a possbility a team will have to play 17 games to win a championship, and the championship game roll into February if the calendar doesnt fall right.... i cant see that continuing to be the case moving forward

I bet the SEC/Big 10 cares a lot more about the money they're generating than they do about a potential 17-game season. College football season has been expanding for over 100 years. It's not going in the other direction. SEC and Big 10 are NOT going to give up that money.

 

[HuntDawg]

I bet the SEC/Big 10 cares a lot more about the money they're generating than they do about a potential 17-game season. College football season has been expanding for over 100 years. It's not going in the other direction. SEC and Big 10 are NOT going to give up that money.

totally disagree.

The championship game was made to benefit the teams and the conferernce. Now forcing teams that game and Cramming in what is now meaningless championship game prior to a 4 week playoff run... isnt as beneficial as it once was, our commish doesnt wanna see Texas and UGA play a meaningless game with both teams are contenders to win it all only to see Carson Beck lost for the playoff run due to injury.... combine that with the fact that they arent losing any money because the playoffs are now 2 weeks longer...

changes will come on some front. They arent going to have a college football season that is longer than the NFL season. As stated above, if its all a money grab... then things can just keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger... at some point somethings gotta give.. and the length of the season is a major concern.....

 

[HuntDawg]

Agree, but I do think NIL and bigger rosters gives them ammunition to expand a little bit.

16 team playoff is coming. adds 4 more teams. Adds 4 more games in the first round to make their money.

 

[Dawgg]

I don't think you're following me.

I'm talking an overall plan. Playoff is expanded to 16 teams. Conference title games are eliminated, for one, because they aren't relevant, and two, they are replaced by an additional game slate of playoff games. So money isn't diminished. And in this new 16 team playoff, you can guarantee that no major conference champion (determined by records) is not left out by required some number (my example is 5-6) highest rated champs getting an auto-invite. This makes sure that the SEC, B1G, ACC, Big 12 and one or two other conferences are assured of a spot, rather than the SEC/B1G getting 5-6 auto spots themselves, in the case they have 2-3 co-champs.

From the conferences' point of view, having a conference championship game increases the likelihood of getting multiple bids. It's the reason why it's the tournament champion that gets the auto-bid in basketball and not the regular season champ. Conventional wisdom is that the regular season champ had a good enough season to get an at-large bid, so the tournament champ could be a team that wouldn't have been in. Now, that may be a moot point for the SEC or the Big Ten because the top two teams in each of those conferences are probably in, but for the ACC, Big 12, or the random G6 conference that has two breakout teams, the CCG gives them their best opportunity for multiple teams.

As far as ratings and money, the SEC and Big Ten Championship games are going to draw more viewers and money than the first round playoff games, so you can't act like it's a one to one replacement.

What's bringing in more money and eyeballs?

Penn State vs Ohio State and Georgia vs LSU
or
Texas vs Iowa State and Miami vs Army

 

[GloryDawg]

They can get three in. The championship is only to determine who get the automictic bid and bye.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

From the conferences' point of view, having a conference championship game increases the likelihood of getting multiple bids. It's the reason why it's the tournament champion that gets the auto-bid in basketball and not the regular season champ. Conventional wisdom is that the regular season champ had a good enough season to get an at-large bid, so the tournament champ could be a team that wouldn't have been in. Now, that may be a moot point for the SEC or the Big Ten because the top two teams in each of those conferences are probably in, but for the ACC, Big 12, or the random G6 conference that has two breakout teams, the CCG gives them their best opportunity for multiple teams.

As far as ratings and money, the SEC and Big Ten Championship games are going to draw more viewers and money than the first round playoff games, so you can't act like it's a one to one replacement.

What's bringing in more money and eyeballs?

Penn State vs Ohio State and Georgia vs LSU
or
Texas vs Iowa State and Miami vs Army

I think the national playoff will absolutely bring more eyes.

 

[Perd Hapley]

From the conferences' point of view, having a conference championship game increases the likelihood of getting multiple bids. It's the reason why it's the tournament champion that gets the auto-bid in basketball and not the regular season champ.

The tournament champ getting an auto bid in basketball (and baseball) is an NCAA rule. Has nothing to do with the conferences. They have that same rule for all the NCAA sanctioned postseason tournaments.

And, it doesn’t really increase chances of multiple bids. If 11-1 Miami and 10-2 Clemson play for the ACC title, while 11-1 SMU stays home, and Clemson wins, 11-2 Miami is probably not making the playoff. If Miami wins, 10-3 Clemson isn’t making it. If there was no conference championship game, there’d be at least a slight chance of all 3 getting in, but more than likely you’d see Clemson left out. But you certainly aren’t increasing the chances of more teams by adding the conference championship game. Nor are you crowning a legitimate conference champion.

 

[Dawgg]

The tournament champ getting an auto bid in basketball (and baseball) is an NCAA rule. Has nothing to do with the conferences. They have that same rule for all the NCAA sanctioned postseason tournaments.

And, it doesn’t really increase chances of multiple bids. If 11-1 Miami and 10-2 Clemson play for the ACC title, while 11-1 SMU stays home, and Clemson wins, 11-2 Miami is probably not making the playoff. If Miami wins, 10-3 Clemson isn’t making it. If there was no conference championship game, there’d be at least a slight chance of all 3 getting in, but more than likely you’d see Clemson left out. But you certainly aren’t increasing the chances of more teams by adding the conference championship game. Nor are you crowning a legitimate conference champion.

Conferences could 100% award their automatic bid to their regular season champion. The Ivy League did this in basketball until 2017. The rule is a conference champion by in season conference competition OR a conference tournament.



The conference tournament is the only hope some of these smaller conferences with one basketball overdog (example: Atlantic 10 last year with Duquesne and Dayton) have of getting multiple bids.


Now, let’s make your scenario with an undefeated Miami and a 10-2 Clemson. Assumedly, Clemson lost to USCe because that’s the only way SMU is 11-1 and out of the ACC championship. Clemson is probably out of the playoff picture in that scenario without a conference championship. Now, let’s say they win the ACC title game. Miami is definitely an at-large at 12-1 and Clemson is an automatic qualifier. SMU at 11-1 with an undefeated conference record is no better or no worse than they were without a championship game.

 

[patdog]

I think the national playoff will absolutely bring more eyes.

What you’re not seeing is it’s not either/or. The SEC & Big 10 want both. Expended 14-16 team playoff with 4 automatic bids each and conference championship and 3rd place games. And they will get it.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

What you’re not seeing is it’s not either/or. The SEC & Big 10 want both. Expended 14-16 team playoff with 4 automatic bids each and conference championship and 3rd place games. And they will get it.

Well then expand the playoff to 32. More more more

 

[patdog]

Well then expand the playoff to 32. More more more

Let’s just make it 128 and take everyone then. We’ll play the final in April. **

 

[pseudonym]

Well then expand the playoff to 32. More more more

Mike Leach Proposes 64-Team College Football Playoff

Mike Leach is a popular football coach. His offense is a blast to watch, he says hilarious things, he knows trivia about everything, his players graduate, he's stuck it to The Man, and he counseled...

www.sbnation.com

 

[olblue]

This is why conference title games need to be eliminated. A team should not lose ground by losing a conference championship game, but it always happens, and will continue to happen. It's not like basketball and baseball tournaments, where there are things to gain for bubble teams and little to lose for surefire tournament teams.

In this case, all 3 are conference co-champions. Who cares, it spreads wealth around. Gives fanbases hope when they hang a banner.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Now, let’s make your scenario with an undefeated Miami and a 10-2 Clemson.

That’s fine. My original scenario assumed all 3 teams had 1 conference loss, but I erred and didn’t think about SMU’s BYU loss.

Assumedly, Clemson lost to USCe because that’s the only way SMU is 11-1 and out of the ACC championship.

If you had 10-2 Clemson, 10-2 SMU, 11-1 Miami, each would probably only have a single ACC loss (lost to UGA in Week 1). They don’t play each other, so it would come down to a convoluted tiebreaker that no one could pretend to know the outcome of at this point, and it would depend on who each team lost to.

In your case above of Clemson losing to USCe and then going to the championship, they have to win the championship to get a bid.

Clemson is probably out of the playoff picture in that scenario without a conference championship.

Exactly.

Now, let’s say they win the ACC title game. Miami is definitely an at-large at 12-1 and Clemson is an automatic qualifier.

Mostly agree but a lot depends on how it goes down. If Clemson beats Miami 45-0, hard to say that Miami still feels good about their chances.

SMU at 11-1 with an undefeated conference record is no better or no worse than they were without a championship game.

Disagree here. All 3 teams are going to want that autobid to feel safe. SMU needs the auto bid more than anyone. Miami is the only one with a reasonable path to getting in without it. But back to SMU….their schedule is crap, and they have a loss. They are the ones that stand the most to gain of the 3 from having a championship game that they can win. For all intents and purposes, its an 11-team playoff for the P4 conferences. If a 13-0 FSU didn’t even make the Top 5 cut the year before due to how crappy the league was, why would an 11-1 team that didn’t even make the conference champ game from an even more diluted ACC get any type of favorable treatment (or an 11-2 team with CG loss)?

But if they got in and if they beat Miami, they’d be keeping Clemson out. If they got in and beat Clemson, they are again eliminating Clemson.

The only scenario where you could argue 3 ACC teams should make it would be if there was no conference championship, and you had everyone run the table. But that isn’t possible. There are going to be too many 0-to-2 loss teams from the SEC and B1G taking up bids to allow more than one non-AQ from the ACC….and maybe some from the Big 12 as well. Ultimately the CG hurts the case for more teams because of the cannibalization.

Conferences could 100% award their automatic bid to their regular season champion. The Ivy League did this in basketball until 2017. The rule is a conference champion by in season conference competition OR a conference tournament.

View attachment 677164

The conference tournament is the only hope some of these smaller conferences with one basketball overdog (example: Atlantic 10 last year with Duquesne and Dayton) have of getting multiple bids.

Fair point, but that’s not evidence that conferences actively went this direction to try and maximize bids. It only makes sense to give the autobid to the regular season champion if you have truly equal scheduling with everyone playing everyone else the same number of times. Few, if any, conferences are able to do this….so a tournament is the most fair option. Conference tournaments also make money, and you can’t really justify having one without the auto-bid prize at the end. So that’s another reason why they exist.

It’s just that football has a really crappy 2-team tournament, instead of a real one, so there isn’t a great option either way. So therefore, this current model where “conferences” get autobids into the Top 4 is a terrible platform.

 

[dog12]

The football team at the University of Pittsburgh is also in the ACC. Plus, Pitt is 7-0 overall and undefeated in conference play.

Pitt plays SMU and Clemson in the coming weeks, so the situation between those teams will be settled.

Miami has the easiest path to remaining undefeated, because they have Florida St, Duke, Ga Tech, Wake Forest and Syracuse remaining on their schedule (no SMU, Clemson or Pitt).

If Duke or Ga Tech doesn't beat Miami, then they will likely be undefeated.

 

[Perd Hapley]

The football team at the University of Pittsburgh is also in the ACC. Plus, Pitt is 7-0 overall and undefeated in conference play.

Pitt plays SMU and Clemson in the coming weeks, so the situation between those teams will be settled.

Miami has the easiest path to remaining undefeated, because they have Florida St, Duke, Ga Tech, Wake Forest and Syracuse remaining on their schedule (no SMU, Clemson or Pitt).

If Duke or Ga Tech doesn't beat Miami, then they will likely be undefeated.

Pitt can definitely remove SMU or Clemson (or both) from consideration and make the above scenario obsolete. I think the scenario above was only selected because of those 3 teams not playing each other. If Pitt and Miami both go unbeaten in the regular season, its a lot more straightforward.

On the flip side, if Pitt goes 1-1 against Clemson and SMU and wins out otherwise, the team that beats Pitt picks up a conference L elsewhere while winning out otherwise, and the team that Pitt beats wins out otherwise, and Miami loses one, its even more anarchy than the above scenario. 4 teams with a single conference loss. Miami would play none of the other 3, Clemson / SMU would only play 1 of the other 3, Pitt would have played 2 of the other 3. There’s no good way to clean that up.