I'm curious where everyone ranks him among the best baseball players to play at MSU? Palmeiro #1 Will Clark #2 then I'd put Papelbon #3 Jeff Brantley #4 followed in no order by Paul Maholm, Mitch Moreland and who else? I'm probably forgetting a lot of names here. Jonathan Papelbon is quietly becoming one of the greatest closers ever and he might already be the Boston Red Sox's greatest closer EVER!!! Wish we could get him involved with State baseball more.
After watching Papelbon get the save...
- Thread starter DAWG61
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Paps was a little better than average here. He had the makeup and potential but didn't become what he is today until he reached the minors and got quality teaching. One of the best closers ever? Too early to say. Closers are more of a longevity judgement. It's one thing to be able to shut people down when the games on the line but to do it over the course of many seasons with that same focus is very difficult. That's what makes Rivera so amazing. The physical part is one thing but to have that closer's mindset and focus all these years is really incredible. Palmeiro is definitely top dawg in my book as far as both careers here and the pros. I just hate it's always going to be perceived as tainted. Clark gets alot of glory but will always be 2nd in my book even here as I think Raffy was the better player.The Thrill can just deal with it. Brantley and Thigpen had really nice careers. Thigpen held the major'ssaves record in a season foraround 20 years.Maholm would have more of a chance if not spending his career with a horrible team.
Although Mariano Rivera didnt' start closing games until his 3rd season and had more saves in his 1st 6 years as a closer. I'd have to go with Dennis Eckersley as the best closer ever. He won over 150 games in his first 12 years as a starter then saved 390 in his last 12 years as a closer (back when teams didn'tbaby closerslike they do now). I'd loved to have seen what John Smoltz could have done as a closer. Over 200 wins as a starter and over 150 saves in 3 seasons as a closer. You've got to put Paps on the list of top closer though. Probably not top 10 yet, but if he keeps going, he'll be a shoo-in for the top 10.</p>
It depends on if you are talking about career at MSU, or career in MLB. I think Moreland could have had a better career at MSU had Polk not toyed with the idea of redshirting him, and basically caused him to miss half of a season. So, some of it is in the eye of the beholder. Also, I believe it was Papelbon that blew a save for MSU in 2003 to cost us a Super Regional bid.
If you're talking about strictly MSU, you have to talk about people like Frank Montgomery- 10-0 in 1962, Buck Showalter hitting .459, Bruce Castoria hitting 28 home runs and driving in 98 or even Aaron Weatherford not allowing a run until the last game of the year in 2008. Ed Easley won the Johnny Bench Award. BJ Wallace and Bobby Reed were both very good pitchers that might warrant top ten duscussion.
To me, I would say Palmeiro for both. Just because he was the first guy to win the SEC triple crown in 1984. Will Clark is a close second and he is MSU's only Golden Spikes Award winner, and he should have stayed in better shape in MLB to be honest with you. Jeff Brantley was better than Papelbon at MSU, and he also won a Fireman of the Year award in MLB. Bobby Thigpen also won the same award and set the MLB record for saves in a single season. Mitch Moreland is still starting out his career, and Paul Maholm is a solid pitcher.
As far as Papelbon goes- it's too soon to call him one of the greatest of all time. I think he could possibly get there at some point. Closers don't really have a "magic number" for saves because the closer position has evolved so much in the past 30 years like the other positions- 500 home runs, 3,000 hits, 300 wins, etc. Personally, I would say wait until he gets 300 saves or so, and then I would guess 400 would warrant HOF consideration to really begin talking. I would say the one thing about the great closers that they all have in common is longevity- Rivera, Eckersley, Fingers, Hoffman, Lee Smith, Gossage, Quisenberry, Sutter, etc.
If you're talking about strictly MSU, you have to talk about people like Frank Montgomery- 10-0 in 1962, Buck Showalter hitting .459, Bruce Castoria hitting 28 home runs and driving in 98 or even Aaron Weatherford not allowing a run until the last game of the year in 2008. Ed Easley won the Johnny Bench Award. BJ Wallace and Bobby Reed were both very good pitchers that might warrant top ten duscussion.
To me, I would say Palmeiro for both. Just because he was the first guy to win the SEC triple crown in 1984. Will Clark is a close second and he is MSU's only Golden Spikes Award winner, and he should have stayed in better shape in MLB to be honest with you. Jeff Brantley was better than Papelbon at MSU, and he also won a Fireman of the Year award in MLB. Bobby Thigpen also won the same award and set the MLB record for saves in a single season. Mitch Moreland is still starting out his career, and Paul Maholm is a solid pitcher.
As far as Papelbon goes- it's too soon to call him one of the greatest of all time. I think he could possibly get there at some point. Closers don't really have a "magic number" for saves because the closer position has evolved so much in the past 30 years like the other positions- 500 home runs, 3,000 hits, 300 wins, etc. Personally, I would say wait until he gets 300 saves or so, and then I would guess 400 would warrant HOF consideration to really begin talking. I would say the one thing about the great closers that they all have in common is longevity- Rivera, Eckersley, Fingers, Hoffman, Lee Smith, Gossage, Quisenberry, Sutter, etc.
I know Chris Maloney got one for helping the 2006 Cardinals coaching staff late in the year after the AAA season was over.
Combo MSU/MLB, it might be Palmeiro, Clark, Brantley, Papelbon, Thigpen. I might still put Paps 2nd as his pro career has been really really good compared to most other former MSU players. <div>
</div><div>Depends on how much weight you give MSU vs MLB. There are a lot of players that starred and contributed a lot more to MSU than Paps. If it's equal weight, then Thigpen starts to move up the list as he starred at State and did fairly well in the pros for a while. Then Paps, then you might put in some guys that starred at State but didn't do much in the pros. </div>
</div><div>Depends on how much weight you give MSU vs MLB. There are a lot of players that starred and contributed a lot more to MSU than Paps. If it's equal weight, then Thigpen starts to move up the list as he starred at State and did fairly well in the pros for a while. Then Paps, then you might put in some guys that starred at State but didn't do much in the pros. </div>