Any following the Collierville TN HS basketball saga?

[Maroon13]

What's your opinion on public school coaches bringing in better athletes from other school zones to improve their talent?

I'm not familiar with Shelby county school zoning rules. However I know desoto county ms is extremely strict on residency. I know Olive Branch football was good back when they had all those transfers and fell off when they got corrected on it by Mississippi.

Anyways the collierville story, one coach and the media says racism. The parents say no, it isn't fair to resident kids to bring in kids from other schools.


https://www.facebook.com/share/XDLztNQfkUKZ8owx/?mibextid=QwDbR1

 

[patdog]

It's the way of the world. Unlimited transfers has been trickling down to high schools for a few years now. It's not uncommon at all to see top high school players play for 2 or even 3 high schools in their careers. And it's only going to get worse going forward.

 

[Yeti]

I brought in players from another district for your tax dollars to pay for and as an added bonus your kids don’t get to play. you don’t like that so you are racist. Be a better coach win with what you have.

 

[DerHntr]

It's the way of the world. Unlimited transfers has been trickling down to high schools for a few years now. It's not uncommon at all to see top high school players play for 2 or even 3 high schools in their careers. And it's only going to get worse going forward.

It’s bad enough from an educational standpoint to see students transfer numerous times in college. At the high school level, I cannot imagine this is a good way to learn.

 

[patdog]

It’s bad enough from an educational standpoint to see students transfer numerous times in college. At the high school level, I cannot imagine this is a good way to learn.

Who gives a **** about education if we can win a couple more football games this fall. This is the year we're gonna beat East Webster! **

 

[Maroon13]

It's the way of the world. Unlimited transfers has been trickling down to high schools for a few years now. It's not uncommon at all to see top high school players play for 2 or even 3 high schools in their careers. And it's only going to get worse going forward.

I'm sure I am out of touch with Jackson private schools. Also I realize private school is a different animal. But im still surprised to hear about State and OM athletes went to (you name it private school) in the metro area.

But hey, tip of the cap to those private schools. They have evolved. Because back in the day in my home town they poached the good white players from public school. Now the poach the good black players too. Ha.

I do wonder though what set of parent and kid was displaced. However again, private school and public are different subjects.

 

[johnson86-1]

What's your opinion on public school coaches bringing in better athletes from other school zones to improve their talent?

I'm not familiar with Shelby county school zoning rules. However I know desoto county ms is extremely strict on residency. I know Olive Branch football was good back when they had all those transfers and fell off when they got corrected on it by Mississippi.

Anyways the collierville story, one coach and the media says racism. The parents say no, it isn't fair to resident kids to bring in kids from other schools.


https://www.facebook.com/share/XDLztNQfkUKZ8owx/?mibextid=QwDbR1

It's funny/sad to see that facebook post where the guy is criticizing people in Collierville for not prioritizing winning in high school sports over everything else. Yes, some people would rather watch kids in their community play and lose than watch recruited players win. I guess sports fandom doesn't make sense in general, and you could make the same statement about us caring about MSU sports, but it still seems sad to me to be worried about high school sports to the extent that you don't care if the players have any connection to the community.

I make the same comment about people paying for all the scholarship players at Jackson area private schools. I guess if you have a child playing there that won't lose playing time and will get to win more with the additional scholarship players, that sort of makes sense. But I dont' think that's the usual situation as far as how those players get recruited. Why aren't more MRA parents bothered that their kids get pushed out of sports in high school after paying tuition for 5 or 7 years so they can win private school sports championships? Who the hell cares who wins Mississippi private school sports?

 

[The Cooterpoot]

I think parents and their tax dollars should go to whatever school is best from them.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

It's funny/sad to see that facebook post where the guy is criticizing people in Collierville for not prioritizing winning in high school sports over everything else. Yes, some people would rather watch kids in their community play and lose than watch recruited players win. I guess sports fandom doesn't make sense in general, and you could make the same statement about us caring about MSU sports, but it still seems sad to me to be worried about high school sports to the extent that you don't care if the players have any connection to the community.

I make the same comment about people paying for all the scholarship players at Jackson area private schools. I guess if you have a child playing there that won't lose playing time and will get to win more with the additional scholarship players, that sort of makes sense. But I dont' think that's the usual situation as far as how those players get recruited. Why aren't more MRA parents bothered that their kids get pushed out of sports in high school after paying tuition for 5 or 7 years so they can win private school sports championships? Who the hell cares who wins Mississippi private school sports?

Adult ego, man. That's what it's all about, rather than healthy competition.

But as to what Collierville can do.....is this one of those school choice things? Or were these girls actually transferring in and living? Because in either situation - neither are against the rules, right?

 

[Maroon13]

But as to what Collierville can do.....is this one of those school choice things? Or were these girls actually transferring in and living? Because in either situation - neither are against the rules, right?

You can pay $400 and transfer into Collierville district schools as a nonresident. Which is supposedly what the "inner city" basketball recruits did. Supposedly the kids didn't live in the collierville school zone.

The citizens of collierville need to get that non-resident fee or requirements to attend their schools, changed.

 

[missouridawg]

This post has no bearing on anything... but I really wanted to post a gif of Coach Bud Kilmer from Varsity Blues. And the built-in GIF adder doesn't have any Bud Kilmer GIFs loaded in. Burn it down.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

You can pay $400 and transfer into Collierville district schools as a nonresident. Which is supposedly what the "inner city" basketball recruits did. Supposedly the kids didn't live in the collierville school zone.

The citizens of collierville need to get that non-resident fee or requirements to attend their schools, changed.

Is that for everyone or just the same school system that Collierville is in? Shelby County maybe?

Funny, I've heard of rezoning or whatever, but not paying to attend a public school. Maybe I'm just out of the loop.

 

[johnson86-1]

Adult ego, man. That's what it's all about, rather than healthy competition.

But as to what Collierville can do.....is this one of those school choice things? Or were these girls actually transferring in and living? Because in either situation - neither are against the rules, right?

I know nothing about the situation but didn't infer from the post that any rules were being broken. I just think it's perfectly reasonable for parents and other people in the community to prefer not to recruit athletes from outside of the community, even if the rules allow it.

 

[BulldogBlitz]

Long ago when I was in a mempho city school, the rumor was that we could have had a hell of a football team if not for all the shenanigans going on with players claiming residence at their aunty's house in trezvant school district...of course that forced bussing was arbitrarily drawn districts, but still had people jumping all over to direct which team they would be on

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I know nothing about the situation but didn't infer from the post that any rules were being broken. I just think it's perfectly reasonable for parents and other people in the community to prefer not to recruit athletes from outside of the community, even if the rules allow it.

I wonder if sports in general is on borrowed time. When the tribalism is gone, who really cares. You're just paying mercenaries to get that elusive 'win', so does the win really matter?

The only time you can really get away with this is when you have the best players available, in a well regulated league, like professional sports. Now I get that not all of them are equal, but they are all well-regulated for the most part. Drafts, rules, etc.

 

[Maroon13]

Is that for everyone or just the same school system that Collierville is in? Shelby County maybe?

Funny, I've heard of rezoning or whatever, but not paying to attend a public school. Maybe I'm just out of the loop.

I dnk. Other school districts in Shelby county may have loose transfer rules as well. But Collierville HS is no longer in Shelby county SD and is in Collierville SD.

About 10 years ago, Memphis city school district went broke. MCSD was merged into Shelby County SD. When that was taking place, all the suburban municipalities created their own school districts to ensure their tax dollars went to their schools and not Memphis city schools. Shelby county SD is now basically MCSD.

 

[HuntDawg]

Happens everywhere. No one should have lost their job over it. Typical high $$ parents mad their child isnt good enough to play..

Just a coach wanting to win. And doing so within the rules(not breaking them).... Not a bad thing.

 

[AlCoDog]

I know one thing about Collierville High School. Those facilities are incredible.

 

[HuntDawg]

It's funny/sad to see that facebook post where the guy is criticizing people in Collierville for not prioritizing winning in high school sports over everything else. Yes, some people would rather watch kids in their community play and lose than watch recruited players win. I guess sports fandom doesn't make sense in general, and you could make the same statement about us caring about MSU sports, but it still seems sad to me to be worried about high school sports to the extent that you don't care if the players have any connection to the community.

I make the same comment about people paying for all the scholarship players at Jackson area private schools. I guess if you have a child playing there that won't lose playing time and will get to win more with the additional scholarship players, that sort of makes sense. But I dont' think that's the usual situation as far as how those players get recruited. Why aren't more MRA parents bothered that their kids get pushed out of sports in high school after paying tuition for 5 or 7 years so they can win private school sports championships? Who the hell cares who wins Mississippi private school sports?

I was once told at schools like you mention. You cant have 22 great players. You can only have 10 or 11. Because the other 10-11 players have to be the doctors kid, the big donors kid, school board presidents kid, etc.

So its a balance of keeping the right ones happy, while winning as much as you can. Heard its a difficult balancing act. Because you certainly cant put the wrong kid on the pine.

 

[Raiderdawg]

Open zone districts are very common in Tennessee. Maryville’s and Alcoa’s decades of domination in TN HS football for years was due, in part, to open districts. It seems more school districts are moving to that model.


In Georgia, at least where I live, schools allow a % of students from out of district to apply and attend. There are kids in my neighborhood attending 3 different public HS and a few private schools. Pay an application fee and apply. A lot of the best athletes in my county live no where near the school they play for.

 

[TorchingTime]

You can pay $400 and transfer into Collierville district schools as a nonresident. Which is supposedly what the "inner city" basketball recruits did. Supposedly the kids didn't live in the collierville school zone.

The citizens of collierville need to get that non-resident fee or requirements to attend their schools, changed.

I live in Collierville and have one kid that graduated from CHS and one that is there right now.

The only school in the CMSD that has space for non-resident transfers is one of the elementary schools. (https://www.colliervilleschools.org/apps/pages/transferinformation) The new high school hasn’t accepted non-resident transfers since it opened six years ago.

There was a proposal two or three years ago to create an “academy” within the school that would accept non-resident transfers. It was shot down by the general public almost immediately as most people saw it for what it was, a loophole around TSSAA rules against transfers.

Both of my boys play soccer. The men’s soccer program has 2 JV teams plus the varsity team. They have close to 90 kids tryout every year and take about 60 of them. It’s competitive to make a team and finding out a coach was working the system to get a non-resident in the school is going to ruffle a lot of feathers. There have been plenty of statements about parents not wanting their kids to compete with better players which is frankly BS. The district signs plenty of kids to D1 scholarships in multiple sports. There is already competition.

As a resident my opinion is pretty simple, I’m paying out the nose in property tax to pay off a $95M high school with a student population of close to 3,000. They are currently expanding it six years after it was built as they are running out of room and Blue Oval City is going to bring more residents to town.

If a kid in Memphis wants to play sports at CHS then they need to move to Collierville and help pay for it.

 

[Villagedawg]

I think parents and their tax dollars should go to whatever school is best from them.

I get the sentiment, but imagine taking that to every tax where each individual could specify on what and where their tax dollars go. “My taxes only pay for roads I drive on.” The only time my $3000 can pay for a fighter jet is when it directly defends me personally. Taxes just can’t work that way. Secondly, School taxes aren’t paid by how many kids you have in school. They are paid by virtually everyone for everyone’s benefit.

 

[retire the banner]

What's your opinion on public school coaches bringing in better athletes from other school zones to improve their talent?

I'm not familiar with Shelby county school zoning rules. However I know desoto county ms is extremely strict on residency. I know Olive Branch football was good back when they had all those transfers and fell off when they got corrected on it by Mississippi.

Anyways the collierville story, one coach and the media says racism. The parents say no, it isn't fair to resident kids to bring in kids from other schools.


https://www.facebook.com/share/XDLztNQfkUKZ8owx/?mibextid=QwDbR1

Olive Branch’s fall in football success is not because they stopped bringing in transfers. It’s political- the superintendent had a vendetta against the school and had a big hand in rezoning which hurt the school significantly. Adding Lewisburg and Center Hill also had an effect.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

What's your opinion on public school coaches bringing in better athletes from other school zones to improve their talent?

I'm not familiar with Shelby county school zoning rules. However I know desoto county ms is extremely strict on residency. I know Olive Branch football was good back when they had all those transfers and fell off when they got corrected on it by Mississippi.

Anyways the collierville story, one coach and the media says racism. The parents say no, it isn't fair to resident kids to bring in kids from other schools.


https://www.facebook.com/share/XDLztNQfkUKZ8owx/?mibextid=QwDbR1

I don't live in that world, but is the pressure to win on high school coaches that great? Are they just so competitive that they can't help but take every advantage possible? It's odd to me that the idea of trying to stack talent has overtaken the idea of coaching the talent you have. When I was in school, you might have a kid move into the district to play in a higher profile division and coaches didn't balk at that idea, but it seems different now. Maybe me being old is the key difference...

 

[patdog]

I don't live in that world, but is the pressure to win on high school coaches that great? Are they just so competitive that they can't help but take every advantage possible? It's odd to me that the idea of trying to stack talent has overtaken the idea of coaching the talent you have. When I was in school, you might have a kid move into the district to play in a higher profile division and coached didn't balk at that idea, but it seems different now. Maybe me being old is the key difference...

I think it varies widely from school to school. I think most schools are for the most part doing things the right way. But there are a few that have taken high school recruiting to a whole new level in the last decade or so.

 

[johnson86-1]

I get the sentiment, but imagine taking that to every tax where each individual could specify on what and where their tax dollars go. “My taxes only pay for roads I drive on.” The only time my $3000 can pay for a fighter jet is when it directly defends me personally. Taxes just can’t work that way.

That's not the same thing at all. The point of spending tax money on education is to educate the students. Right now we spend money on education as if the point is to pay for building, teachers, and administration. Sometimes we educate students, sometimes we don't. When we don't, lots of people just sort of shrug and tell the parents that live in those areas they either need to be affluent enough to pay for private school or at least affluent enough to move.

Secondly, School taxes aren’t paid by how many kids you have in school. They are paid by virtually everyone for everyone’s benefit.

This is not correct, or at least not always correct. Sometimes we spend school taxes on schools where kids get educated and everyone benefits. Sometimes we spend money on schools that are actually a bad environment for kids and it's a net loss for everybody.

If we treated school taxes like the point was to educate people and benefit everybody, we'd absolutely tie funding to the child rather than buildings.

 

[HuntDawg]

I live in Collierville and have one kid that graduated from CHS and one that is there right now.

The only school in the CMSD that has space for non-resident transfers is one of the elementary schools. (https://www.colliervilleschools.org/apps/pages/transferinformation) The new high school hasn’t accepted non-resident transfers since it opened six years ago.

There was a proposal two or three years ago to create an “academy” within the school that would accept non-resident transfers. It was shot down by the general public almost immediately as most people saw it for what it was, a loophole around TSSAA rules against transfers.

Both of my boys play soccer. The men’s soccer program has 2 JV teams plus the varsity team. They have close to 90 kids tryout every year and take about 60 of them. It’s competitive to make a team and finding out a coach was working the system to get a non-resident in the school is going to ruffle a lot of feathers. There have been plenty of statements about parents not wanting their kids to compete with better players which is frankly BS. The district signs plenty of kids to D1 scholarships in multiple sports. There is already competition.

As a resident my opinion is pretty simple, I’m paying out the nose in property tax to pay off a $95M high school with a student population of close to 3,000. They are currently expanding it six years after it was built as they are running out of room and Blue Oval City is going to bring more residents to town.

If a kid in Memphis wants to play sports at CHS then they need to move to Collierville and help pay for it.

Good post:

I'd be curious to know what you mean exactly by working the system. Was in within the rules or not. And typically all the system working by a coach is known by the principal, AD, etc. Were they signing off on this?

 

[TorchingTime]

Good post:

I'd be curious to know what you mean exactly by working the system. Was in within the rules or not. And typically all the system working by a coach is known by the principal, AD, etc. Were they signing off on this?

To be transparent I don't have any knowledge of what this particular coach may or may not have been doing regarding bringing in non-resident players, I didn't mean to insinuate that I did. I've seen rumors that she got into a fight with her assistant coach in front of the team, I've also seen where she was a coach at one of the middle schools several years ago and was let go from there as well. The coaching contracts are yearly, there was no guarantee that she would keep the job. It's in the news because she's a marketing manager for ABC24 and they're running with it. Shawn Taggart was also let go on the boy's side and it barely generated any news until the girl's coach was let go. There is barely any news about the basketball teams in this town during the season so I couldn't even tell you who the suspected transfer players might have been.

It's entirely possible for a family to rent an apartment within the Collierville town limits and use that for their residency paperwork, even if they are actually living in Mississippi, Fayette County or Orange Mound. I knew a family that did just that when they moved to Mississippi the summer before their daughter's senior year. Sitting in the car rider line at the high school you'll see a couple of DeSoto County tags and Fayette County tags. It's a work around that people that can afford both an apartment in Collierville and a residence somewhere else can access. If the family provides the paperwork then the principal and AD might not even be involved.

The local populace doesn't like it because those people aren't contributing to property or sales tax in Collierville that helps pay for the schools. When the district was formed 10 years ago the town increased sales tax within it's borders to help fund it, property taxes increased when construction started on the new high school. It's the same reason why people were opposed to creating an academy that would have let non-residents attend. We've been told that the high school is at capacity since it was opened and the District is dropping $8M on an expansion project already.

 

[HuntDawg]

To be transparent I don't have any knowledge of what this particular coach may or may not have been doing regarding bringing in non-resident players, I didn't mean to insinuate that I did. I've seen rumors that she got into a fight with her assistant coach in front of the team, I've also seen where she was a coach at one of the middle schools several years ago and was let go from there as well. The coaching contracts are yearly, there was no guarantee that she would keep the job. It's in the news because she's a marketing manager for ABC24 and they're running with it. Shawn Taggart was also let go on the boy's side and it barely generated any news until the girl's coach was let go. There is barely any news about the basketball teams in this town during the season so I couldn't even tell you who the suspected transfer players might have been.

It's entirely possible for a family to rent an apartment within the Collierville town limits and use that for their residency paperwork, even if they are actually living in Mississippi, Fayette County or Orange Mound. I knew a family that did just that when they moved to Mississippi the summer before their daughter's senior year. Sitting in the car rider line at the high school you'll see a couple of DeSoto County tags and Fayette County tags. It's a work around that people that can afford both an apartment in Collierville and a residence somewhere else can access. If the family provides the paperwork then the principal and AD might not even be involved.

The local populace doesn't like it because those people aren't contributing to property or sales tax in Collierville that helps pay for the schools. When the district was formed 10 years ago the town increased sales tax within it's borders to help fund it, property taxes increased when construction started on the new high school. It's the same reason why people were opposed to creating an academy that would have let non-residents attend. We've been told that the high school is at capacity since it was opened and the District is dropping $8M on an expansion project already.

Thanks for the follow up:

So basically: There really isnt any proof or any real knowings of it said coach was doing anything out of the norm or not... and again seems totally reasonable as a resident why you'd want people that actually live there going to the school or paying taxes there is the better wording.

Sounds like the people of Collierville dont care what athletes come and go. Even recruit them if they want. They have plenty of players and know its competitive. They just want the athletes at their school to live or pay taxes in collierville... which again seems reasonable to me.

 

[Maroon13]

Olive Branch’s fall in football success is not because they stopped bringing in transfers. It’s political- the superintendent had a vendetta against the school and had a big hand in rezoning which hurt the school significantly. Adding Lewisburg and Center Hill also had an effect.

Lewisburg and center hill for that matter have no football or basketball players that are difference makers.

OB was put on probation in football for recruiting. Period. They got the kids from Melrose then later tried to set up the kid from Arkansas in housing. Which didn't work.

Olive Branch High School football placed on probation

Olive Branch High School has been placed on probation by the Mississippi High School Activities Association now that a fourth transfer student from Melrose High School in Memphis has been declared ineligible to play football.

www.actionnews5.com

 

[TorchingTime]

Thanks for the follow up:

So basically: There really isnt any proof or any real knowings of it said coach was doing anything out of the norm or not... and again seems totally reasonable as a resident why you'd want people that actually live there going to the school or paying taxes there is the better wording.

Sounds like the people of Collierville dont care what athletes come and go. Even recruit them if they want. They have plenty of players and know its competitive. They just want the athletes at their school to live or pay taxes in collierville... which again seems reasonable to me.

There is no public proof and I doubt anything will ever come out about it. The coach says she was ousted because of MIDDLE school parents being worried that their kid wouldn't get playing time. The middle school she referenced, West Collierville, has had its team make the state playoffs five years in a row. To me that sounds like there is some talent there. Now if those parents expected their kids to start on varsity as freshmen, that's a different topic.

 

[retire the banner]

Lewisburg and center hill for that matter have no football or basketball players that are difference makers.

OB was put on probation in football for recruiting. Period. They got the kids from Melrose then later tried to set up the kid from Arkansas in housing. Which didn't work.

Olive Branch High School football placed on probation

Olive Branch High School has been placed on probation by the Mississippi High School Activities Association now that a fourth transfer student from Melrose High School in Memphis has been declared ineligible to play football.

www.actionnews5.com

I lived in the OB area for 30 years and graduated from there. There was some recruiting happening, but their overall success was not tied to it. KJ Wright, Markeith Summers, Anthony Summers, DArthur Cowan, Rod Woodson, etc. were all SEC players that were not recruited. The school was rezoned and other schools were created which hurt football.

OB’s success in football was not because they were recruiting their team, this is ignorance.

 

[jb1020]

Who gives a **** about education if we can win a couple more football games this fall. This is the year we're gonna beat East Webster! **

Its like the old Todd Snider lyric...I didn't know I was from a district, let alone know that it was up for grabs

 

[HWY51dog]

I lived in the OB area for 30 years and graduated from there. There was some recruiting happening, but their overall success was not tied to it. KJ Wright, Markeith Summers, Anthony Summers, DArthur Cowan, Rod Woodson, etc. were all SEC players that were not recruited. The school was rezoned and other schools were created which hurt football.

OB’s success in football was not because they were recruiting their team, this is ignorance.

Serious question, so Fred Smith just paid for a new field with the FedEx logo on it because his son just wanted to go to OB his senior year? OB still has the nicest stadium in Desoto County.

I agree the rezoning with Desoto Central did hurt OB and should be updated, but OB did recruit players out of Memphis that helped a lot.