Are walk-on players allowed to have academic scholarships?

[blion72]

If a player comes to PSU with an academic scholarship, are they allowed to walk-on to any of the athletic teams? what about a walk-on athlete who is at PSU a couple years and then gets an academic scholarship, is that allowed?

since NIL cannot be limited, what would happen if a walk-on athlete got an NIL deal? can they still compete? I could see a situation where a woman softball player had social media following and got NIL$$$, but was not good enough to earn a full athletic scholarship - but if NIL$$$ were good might not need it. I think that would put it outside the NCAA re the player, but that doesn't mean the NCAA could not punish the school for some type of violation.

 

[JoeLion]

Interesting questions. I am looking forward to any answers.

 

[BrucePa]

You can have any kind of other scholarship and walk-on to football. If you happen to convert your football walk-on to a football scholarship, then that scholarship that will replace the other scholarship. The NCAA allows 85 football scholarships, so the rule is intended to eliminate the likelihood that Alabama or Michigan would carry 100 scholarship players by sneaking 15 players with "other scholarships" onto the team.

 

[PSU87]

You can have any kind of other scholarship and walk-on to football. If you happen to convert your football walk-on to a football scholarship, then that scholarship that will replace the other scholarship. The NCAA allows 85 football scholarships, so the rule is intended to eliminate the likelihood that Alabama or Michigan would carry 100 scholarship players by sneaking 15 players with "other scholarships" onto the team.

I'm almost positive you can't have any other type of scholarship and be rostered for football.

If you are on scholarship...any scholarship and you play football you count against the 85.

That's what prevents Bama from having 15 extra players who have track scholarships.

I don't know how NIL works though...

 

[GrimReaper]

I'm almost positive you can't have any other type of scholarship and be rostered for football.

If you are on scholarship...any scholarship and you play football you count against the 85.

That's what prevents Bama from having 15 extra players who have track scholarships.

I don't know how NIL works though...

Nope. Football walk-ons can receive scholarships based on merit or financial need. The school has to demonstrate that the scholarship comes from an existing program that is available to the entire student body and that the walk-on qualified under the requirements of that program.

As for athletes who participate in more than one sport receiving scholarships, the NCAA imposes a hierarchy to determine against which sport the scholarship counts, with football at the top of the heap. Thus, anyone who plays football and receives athletic-based financial aid counts against football, regardless of how much aid the individual receives. Since track is an equivalency sport where most of the team receives a partial scholarship, trying to sneak football players through in this manner is grossly inefficient. Besides, track has a limit of 12.6 (which may have changed since I last looked).

 

[Moogy]

Nope. Football walk-ons can receive scholarships based on merit or financial need. The school has to demonstrate that the scholarship comes from an existing program that is available to the entire student body and that the walk-on qualified under the requirements of that program.

As for athletes who participate in more than one sport receiving scholarships, the NCAA imposes a hierarchy to determine against which sport the scholarship counts, with football at the top of the heap. Thus, anyone who plays football and receives athletic-based financial aid counts against football, regardless of how much aid the individual receives. Since track is an equivalency sport where most of the team receives a partial scholarship, trying to sneak football players through in this manner is grossly inefficient. Besides, track has a limit of 12.6 (which may have changed since I last looked).

Pretty sure the actual scenario is that if you're actually playing in a game, your scholarship, whatever the source (athletic, academic, need-based) counts against the 85. If a kid is a walk-on and is only a scout team level kid, then he can have an academic/needs-based grant and not count against the 85. But the moment he suits up for a game on a Saturday (or any other day), his grant counts against the 85, regardless of source.

Otherwise, you could create a "merit-based" academic scholarship (or many of them), make the qualifications low (so a typical football player would qualify), and just always grant it to a football player, even if it was "open" to the general student body, and get around the 85 schollie limit.

 

[Moogy]

I'm almost positive you can't have any other type of scholarship and be rostered for football.

If you are on scholarship...any scholarship and you play football you count against the 85.

That's what prevents Bama from having 15 extra players who have track scholarships.

I don't know how NIL works though...

You can have another type of scholarship if you're a football player, it's just that it will count against the 85 scholarship limit as if it were a football scholarship.

 

[GrimReaper]

Pretty sure the actual scenario is that if you're actually playing in a game, your scholarship, whatever the source (athletic, academic, need-based) counts against the 85. If a kid is a walk-on and is only a scout team level kid, then he can have an academic/needs-based grant and not count against the 85. But the moment he suits up for a game on a Saturday (or any other day), his grant counts against the 85, regardless of source.

Otherwise, you could create a "merit-based" academic scholarship (or many of them), make the qualifications low (so a typical football player would qualify), and just always grant it to a football player, even if it was "open" to the general student body, and get around the 85 schollie limit.

Nope. Creating the sort of situation you describe would open Pandora's Box. Not only would the school have to answer to the NCAA, but to the larger public who would want to know why only football players, and not their kids who qualified, received scholarships.

Regardless, read the rules. There is nothing remotely addressing the sort of situation (walk-on who receives a non-athletic scholarship and suits up) you describe.

 

[s1uggo72]

Nope. Creating the sort of situation you describe would open Pandora's Box. Not only would the school have to answer to the NCAA, but to the larger public who would want to know why only football players, and not their kids who qualified, received scholarships.

Regardless, read the rules. There is nothing remotely addressing the sort of situation (walk-on who receives a non-athletic scholarship and suits up) you describe.

lets face it, Pandora's box is already open. What are they(NCAA) going to do it you do go over 85? Just have the kids who are 86, 87 etc threaten to sue the NCAA, that's all it would take.

 

[Moogy]

Nope. Creating the sort of situation you describe would open Pandora's Box. Not only would the school have to answer to the NCAA, but to the larger public who would want to know why only football players, and not their kids who qualified, received scholarships.

Regardless, read the rules. There is nothing remotely addressing the sort of situation (walk-on who receives a non-athletic scholarship and suits up) you describe.

Regarding the first topic ... are grant recipients even announced?

Regarding the second topic ... provide the rules, because I'm quite certain this is the case. If you're Grim Reaper, the biochem soph who is receiving an academic grant, and you decide to walk on to the football team, if you're just a scout guy, you can keep that academic grant and not count toward the 85. As soon as you're dressing for games, however, that grant, if you keep it, counts toward a full schollie against the 85 limit, even if it's not a full schollie.

 

[Big_O]

The question should be: can non-scholarship players receive NIL money? If they can, then you can have way more than 85 players on a roster and NIL money can go towards paying room and board that is not scholarship money.

 

[s1uggo72]

The question should be: can non-scholarship players receive NIL money? If they can, then you can have way more than 85 players on a roster and NIL money can go towards paying room and board that is not scholarship money.

I think anybody can receive NIL money. I mean why couldn’t they.

 

[GrimReaper]

Regarding the first topic ... are grant recipients even announced?

Regarding the second topic ... provide the rules, because I'm quite certain this is the case. If you're Grim Reaper, the biochem soph who is receiving an academic grant, and you decide to walk on to the football team, if you're just a scout guy, you can keep that academic grant and not count toward the 85. As soon as you're dressing for games, however, that grant, if you keep it, counts toward a full schollie against the 85 limit, even if it's not a full schollie.

Are grant recipients announced.? Depends on the school, grant, and even if not made public the information gets out.

The rules are pretty easy to find and I'm not doing your homework for you. But, try to apply some critical reasoning (which appears to be difficult for some Penn Staters). Check the participation reports, particularly for home games, for names that don't appear on scholarship rosters. Every school will have them to varying degree, particularly kickers, punters (not every school is like Penn State with as many as five on scholarship). kck snappers, long-snappers, and sundry kids on bomb squads. Staff now has to insure that none of these kids are receiving grants in any form or amount (I know, easier at PSU than most places). IIRC, Gabe Nwosu punted in one game. I guess that means that he's either on scholarship or receives no financial aid (again, since he goes to PSU the latter is a distinct possibility).

 

[GrimReaper]

I think anybody can receive NIL money. I mean why couldn’t they.

Sure they can. And why would it be provided to someone who is a marginal contributor or not well-known?

I think Franklin needs to hire an additional two or three dozen staff to concoct ways to get around scholarship limitations and solicit funds for them.

 

[GrimReaper]

lets face it, Pandora's box is already open. What are they(NCAA) going to do it you do go over 85? Just have the kids who are 86, 87 etc threaten to sue the NCAA, that's all it would take.

Don't think there is a problem here. It's the one rule that coaches are pretty uniform in accepting (or afraid to get ratted out on).

 

[Moogy]

Are grant recipients announced.? Depends on the school, grant, and even if not made public the information gets out.

The rules are pretty easy to find and I'm not doing your homework for you. But, try to apply some critical reasoning (which appears to be difficult for some Penn Staters). Check the participation reports, particularly for home games, for names that don't appear on scholarship rosters. Every school will have them to varying degree, particularly kickers, punters (not every school is like Penn State with as many as five on scholarship). kck snappers, long-snappers, and sundry kids on bomb squads. Staff now has to insure that none of these kids are receiving grants in any form or amount (I know, easier at PSU than most places). IIRC, Gabe Nwosu punted in one game. I guess that means that he's either on scholarship or receives no financial aid (again, since he goes to PSU the latter is a distinct possibility).

Re grant recipients: "the information gets out" is silly.

The rules are pretty easy to find and they support what I said. I never said "financial aid" (which includes loans). What nonsense are you actually trying to argue? What's your position? That walk-ons can receive grants from the school, outside of the 85 scholarships allotted to the football program, and not count against the 85 schollie limit? That's obviously false. If that's not what you're blabbering out, use your words and explain yourself.

 

[GrimReaper]

Re grant recipients: "the information gets out" is silly.

The rules are pretty easy to find and they support what I said. I never said "financial aid" (which includes loans). What nonsense are you actually trying to argue? What's your position? That walk-ons can receive grants from the school, outside of the 85 scholarships allotted to the football program, and not count against the 85 schollie limit? That's obviously false. If that's not what you're blabbering out, use your words and explain yourself.

So let's see. PSU had 15-16 walk-ons appear in games last season and none of them received a penny of a gran-in-aid? Including Jaden Seider?

 

[Moogy]

So let's see. PSU had 15-16 walk-ons appear in games last season and none of them received a penny of a gran-in-aid? Including Jaden Seider?

What nonsense are you actually trying to argue? What's your position? That walk-ons can receive grants from the school, outside of the 85 scholarships allotted to the football program, and not count against the 85 schollie limit? That's obviously false. If that's not what you're blabbering out, use your words and explain yourself.

 

[GrimReaper]

What nonsense are you actually trying to argue? What's your position? That walk-ons can receive grants from the school, outside of the 85 scholarships allotted to the football program, and not count against the 85 schollie limit? That's obviously false. If that's not what you're blabbering out, use your words and explain yourself.

That is exactly what I'm arguing. If it's so obviously false, prove it.

How does Jaden Seider not count if what I maintain is false?

 

[BobPSU92]

Academics?!

 

[s1uggo72]

What nonsense are you actually trying to argue? What's your position? That walk-ons can receive grants from the school, outside of the 85 scholarships allotted to the football program, and not count against the 85 schollie limit? That's obviously false. If that's not what you're blabbering out, use your words and explain yourself.

A player on an academic scholarship who is on the football team as a scout team walk-on does not count against the 85. But he must be included in the 85 before he can play in a game. That's the only limited exemption.

Can NCAA D1 teams have more than 85 footballs players on scholarships if some players on the roster have scholarships for other sports?

Answer: No. If a football player is on any kind of scholarship, including academic, he must count against the 85 limit. The reason for this rule is that certain schools would give a 300 pound defensive lineman a swimming scholarship, knowing that he would never get in the pool and indeed might no...

www.quora.com

 

[GrimReaper]

A player on an academic scholarship who is on the football team as a scout team walk-on does not count against the 85. But he must be included in the 85 before he can play in a game. That's the only limited exemption.

Can NCAA D1 teams have more than 85 footballs players on scholarships if some players on the roster have scholarships for other sports?

Answer: No. If a football player is on any kind of scholarship, including academic, he must count against the 85 limit. The reason for this rule is that certain schools would give a 300 pound defensive lineman a swimming scholarship, knowing that he would never get in the pool and indeed might no...

www.quora.com

Ya missed one. Player who receives academic aid who sits out first year and achieves a 3.0 GPA may compete afterward without counting against the limit (15.5.1.1.1).

Both exceptions only apply to walk-ons who were recruited, a murky area. Two of the three conditions are straightforward: player is provided an official visit or an NLI (which presumably he doesn't sign). Third condition is where it gets dicey: an off-campus "encounter" with a coach. NCAA defines an encounter as something lasting longer than the time to exchange a greeting. So if, without question, a kid hasn't been recruited, and receives non-athletic financial aid, he doesn't count.

 

[Moogy]

A player on an academic scholarship who is on the football team as a scout team walk-on does not count against the 85. But he must be included in the 85 before he can play in a game. That's the only limited exemption.

Can NCAA D1 teams have more than 85 footballs players on scholarships if some players on the roster have scholarships for other sports?

Answer: No. If a football player is on any kind of scholarship, including academic, he must count against the 85 limit. The reason for this rule is that certain schools would give a 300 pound defensive lineman a swimming scholarship, knowing that he would never get in the pool and indeed might no...

www.quora.com

This is exactly what I said.

 

[GrimReaper]

This is exactly what I said.

Except that the poster there has it wrong.