Baseball Scenarios for Next Season

[Thebulldogcountry1]

Option 1:

Fire the staff. Go out and get a good HC and top PC. Pay millions to cover buyouts and new staff. Expect the new staff to come in a build a roster with a lean NIL pot, because it was all spent on the staff.

Option 2:

Keep Lemons and go get an elite PC. Convince the big donors to focus on NIL. 4-5MM could set up the program to get/keep really good players for years to come.


I think these are the two most realistic options, and I think option 2 offers less risk. We have to be competitive in the NIL, and we can’t throw all the money at coaches. I think most agree that season would have been much different with a different PC, a Friday night starter, and 3 quality bullpen arms. The first step has been taken.

Lemonis definitely needs to do some soul searching, but it’s not like any other HC we will hire is going to be a slam dunk. The fanbase would not be excited about keeping Lemonis, but he would the summer to go to work and build a competitive roster. If he gets some big transfers, then the fans would buy back in.

 

[WilCoDawg]

And then we’re competing with ole miss next spring for a new HC If we go the option 2 route.

 

[patdog]

Good luck getting people to put a lot of money into the program without a change.

 

[Shmuley]

Option 1:

Fire the staff. Go out and get a good HC and top PC. Pay millions to cover buyouts and new staff. Expect the new staff to come in a build a roster with a lean NIL pot, because it was all spent on the staff.

Option 2:

Keep Lemons and go get an elite PC. Convince the big donors to focus on NIL. 4-5MM could set up the program to get/keep really good players for years to come.


I think these are the two most realistic options, and I think option 2 offers less risk. We have to be competitive in the NIL, and we can’t throw all the money at coaches. I think most agree that season would have been much different with a different PC, a Friday night starter, and 3 quality bullpen arms. The first step has been taken.

Lemonis definitely needs to do some soul searching, but it’s not like any other HC we will hire is going to be a slam dunk. The fanbase would not be excited about keeping Lemonis, but he would the summer to go to work and build a competitive roster. If he gets some big transfers, then the fans would buy back in.

Good luck getting an elite PC to hitch to Mr Mediocre Big 10 Lame Duck.

 

[Eleven Bravo]

Coaches’ salaries, buyouts, etc. come from athletic department money. That buyout money comes from the athletic department budget-unless big donors agree to pony up and pay for it, which has happened a couple of times in the past. NIL comes from private donors and is strictly spent on players. The school doesn’t have control of NIL funds, nor can they spend it on coaches or anything else.

Whether we have a new coaching staff or just a new pitching coach next year (I’m actually hoping that we have an entirely new staff), NIL money will not be affected. Well, hopefully we will continue to build the amount in the NIL account going forward. I personally hate the whole NIL/transfer portal deal. Absolutely hate it, but at the same time I realize that we have to deal with it because that’s where we are right now. The thing I hate the most is letting the Bulldog Initiative draft my bank account every month. I’m never going to like that at all, but it appears that it’s something we have to support or get completely left behind-and I would hate that even worse. I think we are damned if we do and even more damned if we don’t….

 

[Dawgbite]

Or, somebody could challenge Lemonis to a Loser Leaves Town South Farm Cage Match. We could sell tickets, Drebin could cover the fight for SPS The Magazine and do a big spread, Poopops could set up a booth and sell loaded baked taters with all proceeds going to NIL and HD6 could bring Dick and Borkey and do a live radio show for the match. Heck if people will pay to watch wiener dogs race surely they'd show up for this. Now all we need is a contender to whoop Lemonis azz!

 

[Curby]

Could be struggling to make Hoover.

3rd year in a row.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Coaches’ salaries, buyouts, etc. come from athletic department money. That buyout money comes from the athletic department budget-unless big donors agree to pony up and pay for it, which has happened a couple of times in the past. NIL comes from private donors and is strictly spent on players. The school doesn’t have control of NIL funds, nor can they spend it on coaches or anything else.

Whether we have a new coaching staff or just a new pitching coach next year (I’m actually hoping that we have an entirely new staff), NIL money will not be affected. Well, hopefully we will continue to build the amount in the NIL account going forward. I personally hate the whole NIL/transfer portal deal. Absolutely hate it, but at the same time I realize that we have to deal with it because that’s where we are right now. The thing I hate the most is letting the Bulldog Initiative draft my bank account every month. I’m never going to like that at all, but it appears that it’s something we have to support or get completely left behind-and I would hate that even worse. I think we are damned if we do and even more damned if we don’t….

At least part of the buyout will likely come from big boosters. If at least some of the potential buyout money from boosters is funneled to NIL, we can maybe get a legit starting pitcher (if any are available). Had we gotten Skeens last year, we'd no doubt be a tourney team.

 

[Seinfeld]

There is only one option after this season, and we all know what it is. Some just haven't fully accepted yet

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

There is only one option after this season, and we all know what it is. Some just haven't fully accepted yet

If we make the tourney, he's 100% back, and likely back at any rate (baring a complete collapse at home against T5-7).

 

[8dog]

Option 1:

Fire the staff. Go out and get a good HC and top PC. Pay millions to cover buyouts and new staff. Expect the new staff to come in a build a roster with a lean NIL pot, because it was all spent on the staff.

Option 2:

Keep Lemons and go get an elite PC. Convince the big donors to focus on NIL. 4-5MM could set up the program to get/keep really good players for years to come.


I think these are the two most realistic options, and I think option 2 offers less risk. We have to be competitive in the NIL, and we can’t throw all the money at coaches. I think most agree that season would have been much different with a different PC, a Friday night starter, and 3 quality bullpen arms. The first step has been taken.

Lemonis definitely needs to do some soul searching, but it’s not like any other HC we will hire is going to be a slam dunk. The fanbase would not be excited about keeping Lemonis, but he would the summer to go to work and build a competitive roster. If he gets some big transfers, then the fans would buy back in.

It’s going to be really difficult to be good next year. We aren’t rebuilding this staff from the portal. Too many needs and we are losing our best starter. There were 3 Friday night guys in the portal last year. 3. And there isn’t enough talent on the staff returning for any PC to change things in 8 months.

So we can either do this this year and be the premier job or next year when other good jobs probably come open.

No one paying attention genuinely thinks he can turn this around. We just want to be nice. And we aren’t turning away candidates by firing him 2 years after a natty. Everyone in college baseball is smart enough to see a trend and understand how this went down. It’s more than plopping a guy or two into the roster and handing out T shirts. I mean how bad would we be without the portal? It’s frightening to think he built this team without knowing he would have the portal.

Best case maybe we keep some kids but we will still be awful next year and after 2024, Hines and probably Jordan are going to the draft.

So do we want to watch the selection show Memorial Day 2026 or 2027?

 

[Perd Hapley]

Good luck getting people to put a lot of money into the program without a change.

The people who are and always have been putting big money into the program will be the ones to decide if a change happens, and how it happens. Its not up to Selmon.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

This will be a full on sh*t show next year if changes are not made. Why would any player stick around for another year of this if he could go to the minors ? Why would a good high school kid choose this over LSU or Florida or several other schools ??

 

[BingleCocktail]

Option 1:

Fire the staff. Go out and get a good HC and top PC. Pay millions to cover buyouts and new staff. Expect the new staff to come in a build a roster with a lean NIL pot, because it was all spent on the staff.

Option 2:

Keep Lemons and go get an elite PC. Convince the big donors to focus on NIL. 4-5MM could set up the program to get/keep really good players for years to come.


I think these are the two most realistic options, and I think option 2 offers less risk. We have to be competitive in the NIL, and we can’t throw all the money at coaches. I think most agree that season would have been much different with a different PC, a Friday night starter, and 3 quality bullpen arms. The first step has been taken.

Lemonis definitely needs to do some soul searching, but it’s not like any other HC we will hire is going to be a slam dunk. The fanbase would not be excited about keeping Lemonis, but he would the summer to go to work and build a competitive roster. If he gets some big transfers, then the fans would buy back in.

 

[The Peeper]

The problem with this theory is that the same mayor that is in charge of the city and got it in the shape it's in, is still in charge of the city......

 

[Perd Hapley]

It’s going to be really difficult to be good next year. We aren’t rebuilding this staff from the portal. Too many needs and we are losing our best starter. There were 3 Friday night guys in the portal last year. 3. And there isn’t enough talent on the staff returning for any PC to change things in 8 months.

This is more a case for keeping Lemonis one more year than getting rid of him now, although I’m not sure it’s all accurate. If it was accurate, potential candidates aren’t going to want to sign on to a 2-3 year rebuild at a program with our expectations. Cade isn’t necessarily leaving unless he gets a pretty high payday. We need NIL efforts here, because he isn’t some elite prospect but someone might take him in the 6th-8th rounds and go over slot. Lo and Loftin will both be improved and ready for bigger contributions. Auger and Simmons both hopefully back. Gartman, Dohm, Nixon back. There are pieces to work with on this staff.

So we can either do this this year and be the premier job or next year when other good jobs probably come open.

In the real world, this never factors in to whether or not AD’s and boosters make a move. There’s never any telling what jobs will come open any given year. There may be another premier job this year or none next year. Guys retire and unexpected things happen. And college baseball isn’t historically a “coaching bidding war” sport anyway. Established coaches don’t job hop hardly at all. Unless a job like LSU or something comes open, everyone is going to be kind of going after their own set of guys. And even LSU had to settle for their 2nd or 3rd choice when they hired Jay Johnson.

No one paying attention genuinely thinks he can turn this around. We just want to be nice. And we aren’t turning away candidates by firing him 2 years after a natty. Everyone in college baseball is smart enough to see a trend and understand how this went down.

He may not be able to turn it around. But this past weekend shows that we both have some talent and that he also hasn’t lost the locker room. Both of those are factors in his favor. 90% of the problem is pitching. Everything comes down to whether or not he can get a new PC, recruits, returning from injury guys, and portal guys and just bring us back to the middle of the pack in the pitching department. It’s literally that simple. The defensive miscues and stuff like that is white noise….that was all happening throughout 2021 when we were winning 50 games and the natty. Can he get the pitching fixed is the only question worth asking. And I honestly don’t know the answer.

Best case maybe we keep some kids but we will still be awful next year and in 2025, Hines and probably Jordan are going to the draft.

Who would we not be keeping? We lose Hancock and maybe Clark. Maybe Cade. Who else that isn’t easily replaceable? This has always been a young team. And I think you meant 2024 instead of 2025 in regards to Hines and Jordan.

 

[8dog]

This is more a case for keeping Lemonis one more year than getting rid of him now, although I’m not sure it’s all accurate. If it was accurate, potential candidates aren’t going to want to sign on to a 2-3 year rebuild at a program with our expectations. Cade isn’t necessarily leaving unless he gets a pretty high payday. We need NIL efforts here, because he isn’t some elite prospect but someone might take him in the 6th-8th rounds and go over slot. Lo and Loftin will both be improved and ready for bigger contributions. Auger and Simmons both hopefully back. Gartman, Dohm, Nixon back. There are pieces to work with on this staff.



In the real world, this never factors in to whether or not AD’s and boosters make a move. There’s never any telling what jobs will come open any given year. There may be another premier job this year or none next year. Guys retire and unexpected things happen. And college baseball isn’t historically a “coaching bidding war” sport anyway. Established coaches don’t job hop hardly at all. Unless a job like LSU or something comes open, everyone is going to be kind of going after their own set of guys. And even LSU had to settle for their 2nd or 3rd choice when they hired Jay Johnson.



He may not be able to turn it around. But this past weekend shows that we both have some talent and that he also hasn’t lost the locker room. Both of those are factors in his favor. 90% of the problem is pitching. Everything comes down to whether or not he can get a new PC, recruits, returning from injury guys, and portal guys and just bring us back to the middle of the pack in the pitching department. It’s literally that simple. The defensive miscues and stuff like that is white noise….that was all happening throughout 2021 when we were winning 50 games and the natty. Can he get the pitching fixed is the only question worth asking. And I honestly don’t know the answer.



Who would we not be keeping? We lose Hancock and maybe Clark. Maybe Cade. Who else that isn’t easily replaceable? This has always been a young team. And I think you meant 2024 instead of 2025 in regards to Hines and Jordan.

Hines, Jordan, Mershon, Loo and Loftin are the ones we hope to keep. Along with the incoming class. I think you can assume Alford is gone. And yes I meant 2024. I think the portal may be rough on us both ways- bc our clubhouse is a mess, we have been losing and other teams are about to be really in need of the portal like LSU and OM.

Id be shocked if Cade is back. Same with Nixon.

I dont care what the real world does. It would be dumb not to analyze when the best time to hire is if this is a toss(which it shouldn’t be)

Any coach we hire after 2024 is in for a rebuild. We are going to be awful. There is no way we can build a staff off the current talent and the portal. The only reason anyone thinks Gartman and Dohm are good is bc our staff is so bad. But they anrwnt SEC a guys.

And our head coach is really really bad. It’s really hard to do what he has done at State much less off the 5 year preceding run.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Hines, Jordan, Mershon, Loo and Loftin are the ones we hope to keep. Along with the incoming class. I think you can assume Alford is gone. And yes I meant 2024. I think the portal may be rough on us both ways- bc our clubhouse is a mess, we have been losing and other teams are about to be really in need of the portal like LSU and OM.

Why is the clubhouse a mess? Genuine question. If you know something, please share. If there is a toxic locker room then Lemonis needs to go, but nobody has ever presented any evidence of that. And to date we’ve never lost a key starter or contributor in baseball to the transfer portal or to transferring in general that I can recall in many years. But NIL is the name of the game, we’ve got to keep those guys happy there. If we don’t, they will be gone no matter who the coach is. But its way easier to do that without having to foot the bill for $4 million in buyouts.

Id be shocked if Cade is back. Same with Nixon.

Again, NIL is the name of the game. Neither of those guys are premier prospects. Either could get 6 figure signing bonus potentially but nothing life changing as far as that goes, but we can offer the same if we are committed to it. Nixon was actually draft eligible last year and didn’t get taken. I don’t know that he did anything this year to substantially raise his stock from what he showed in his freshmen season at Texas when he was a Freshmen AA.

I dont care what the real world does. It would be dumb not to analyze when the best time to hire is if this is a toss(which it shouldn’t be)

It’s actually dumb to let anything external and beyond your scope of control to cloud your judgment in making a change. Keeping a guy you should probably fire because there’s too much competition in hiring a replacement that year, or spending a lot to fire a guy you could possibly keep because you are scared of competition from other big programs the following year would both be idiotic moves.

Lemonis is either deemed capable of bringing us back, or he is not. If it is deemed he is not, you make the change immediately regardless of whether LSU, Ole Miss, Auburn, Texas, Alabama, and Arkansas are all also making a change….or not.

Any coach we hire after 2024 is in for a rebuild. We are going to be awful. There is no way we can build a staff off the current talent and the portal.

How so? You are already writing off Lo, Loftin, Kohn post-TJ, the numerous bullpen guys that are freshmen, all of our incoming pitching recruits in 2024 and 2025, AND the portal? You may well be right, but only due to luck. There’s not nearly enough data available to make this statement at present time.

The only reason anyone thinks Gartman and Dohm are good is bc our staff is so bad. But they anrwnt SEC a guys.

I don’t know that anyone thinks they are very good, but they certainly aren’t bad. Serviceable arms in the SEC….at worst. They are guys that should be middle relief bullpen guys who we have had to rely on for much bigger roles due to injuries.

 

[8dog]

Why is the clubhouse a mess? Genuine question. If you know something, please share. If there is a toxic locker room then Lemonis needs to go, but nobody has ever presented any evidence of that. And to date we’ve never lost a key starter or contributor in baseball to the transfer portal or to transferring in general that I can recall in many years. But NIL is the name of the game, we’ve got to keep those guys happy there. If we don’t, they will be gone no matter who the coach is. But its way easier to do that without having to foot the bill for $4 million in buyouts.



Again, NIL is the name of the game. Neither of those guys are premier prospects. Either could get 6 figure signing bonus potentially but nothing life changing as far as that goes, but we can offer the same if we are committed to it. Nixon was actually draft eligible last year and didn’t get taken. I don’t know that he did anything this year to substantially raise his stock from what he showed in his freshmen season at Texas when he was a Freshmen AA.



It’s actually dumb to let anything external and beyond your scope of control to cloud your judgment in making a change. Keeping a guy you should probably fire because there’s too much competition in hiring a replacement that year, or spending a lot to fire a guy you could possibly keep because you are scared of competition from other big programs the following year would both be idiotic moves.

Lemonis is either deemed capable of bringing us back, or he is not. If it is deemed he is not, you make the change immediately regardless of whether LSU, Ole Miss, Auburn, Texas, Alabama, and Arkansas are all also making a change….or not.



How so? You are already writing off Lo, Loftin, Kohn post-TJ, the numerous bullpen guys that are freshmen, all of our incoming pitching recruits in 2024 and 2025, AND the portal? You may well be right, but only due to luck. There’s not nearly enough data available to make this statement at present time.



I don’t know that anyone thinks they are very good, but they certainly aren’t bad. Serviceable arms in the SEC….at worst. They are guys that should be middle relief bullpen guys who we have had to rely on for much bigger roles due to injuries.

I’m not gonna get into the clubhouse thing anymore than that. Someone else can if they want to. We have never lost anyone of relevance to the portal bc we have also never been this bad this long.
As for Cade and Nixon you also have to remember some guys are just ready to move on with their career. It’s not always about money.
And I agree. He is not capable so fire him. But if you need another factor the fact you can hire more easily this year should absolutely matter if you are a smart AD. I know I’d consider if if I was hiring.
Go look at Dohm and Gartman sec stats. Not serviceable.

 

[HuntDawg]

I’m not gonna get into the clubhouse thing anymore than that. Someone else can if they want to. We have never lost anyone of relevance to the portal bc we have also never been this bad this long.
As for Cade and Nixon you also have to remember some guys are just ready to move on with their career. It’s not always about money.
And I agree. He is not capable so fire him. But if you need another factor the fact you can hire more easily this year should absolutely matter if you are a smart AD. I know I’d consider if if I was hiring.
Go look at Dohm and Gartman sec stats. Not serviceable.

We've never lost anyone because as said, since the portal has been around, we havent been bad. Even this year, we really only have 1-2 guys that would be highly sought after in the portal. None have exactly improved their stock.

The pitching I agree isnt going to turn around in a year. All the names mentioned arent SEC level pitchers. All the freshman are 10+ era guys in conference. Nixon and Dohm are serviceable parts of bullpens but not key piece guys. Cade is the only real quality arm we have back and he probably needs to be a Sunday guy in a true SEC rotation. Just because we have a lot of people coming back, doesnt mean we can just create SEC level talent out of them. As i said the way this staff has oozed all over jurrangelo is really something. Kid is at best a mid week starter and we've been touting his as someone to build a staff around, it truly questions my thoughts on how they evaluate pitching.

We'll have Hines, Jordan, and if Clark comes back its not a bad punch in the middle. Losing Hancock is addition by subtraction. So the offense has a chance to be good, problem is the majority of the SEC will have hitters coming back that are of this quality as well.

As someone said above, it comes down to pitching. We dont have it, and its unlikely we'll get it in a years time and what we have here just isnt talented enough and I doubt they'll ever be. We blame Foxhall, but its trutly about being able to land and get big arms to campus. So far this staff hasnt been able to do this. And 2nd/3rd tier arms get rocked in the SEC.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Go look at Dohm and Gartman sec stats. Not serviceable.

They are certainly serviceable if they were being used as intended.

Gartman is a guy who should be twice-through-the-order middle reliever who is being used as a starter. His conference only ERA is inflated because we’re forced to leave him out there too long from lack of better options, but he’s had a few bad outings too. Mostly he is being asked to do too much.

Dohm is a once-through-the-order (at most) flamethrower who we ask to go 2-3 times through the order. Again, due to lack of other serviceable arms. Even still, his SEC only ERA is 6.6 in a league that has a 6.26 composite ERA for all teams and all pitchers in SEC games. So….he’s serviceable even with the struggles that he’s had.

 

[HuntDawg]

They are certainly serviceable if they were being used as intended.

Gartman is a guy who should be twice-through-the-order middle reliever who is being used as a starter. His conference only ERA is inflated because we’re forced to leave him out there too long from lack of better options, but he’s had a few bad outings too. Mostly he is being asked to do too much.

Dohm is a once-through-the-order (at most) flamethrower who we ask to go 2-3 times through the order. Again, due to lack of other serviceable arms. Even still, his SEC only ERA is 6.6 in a league that has a 6.26 composite ERA for all teams and all pitchers in SEC games. So….he’s serviceable even with the struggles that he’s had.

Dohm is servicable and should be used EXACTLY the way you said.

Gartman should be the mid week starter. He's not a weekend guy. Im sure he was sort of a last resort after we missed on other guys in the portal.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

It just sucks to be a Bulldog Baseball fan now. SUCKS! You all convinced me this SHIITE is not getting any better anytime soon.

17 it.

The mirage this past weekend only means TAMU will sweep us at home this weekend and probably run rule us at least once.

 

[8dog]

They are certainly serviceable if they were being used as intended.

Gartman is a guy who should be twice-through-the-order middle reliever who is being used as a starter. His conference only ERA is inflated because we’re forced to leave him out there too long from lack of better options, but he’s had a few bad outings too. Mostly he is being asked to do too much.

Dohm is a once-through-the-order (at most) flamethrower who we ask to go 2-3 times through the order. Again, due to lack of other serviceable arms. Even still, his SEC only ERA is 6.6 in a league that has a 6.26 composite ERA for all teams and all pitchers in SEC games. So….he’s serviceable even with the struggles that he’s had.

I will give you Gartman. But thats what makes all this so bad. He was our Saturday starter for most of the year. Thats incredible. So if Cade leaves we have to find or develop an entire rotation

As for Dohm, he hasn’t thrown over 2 innings in his last 5 sec appearances. His WHIP is well over 2. And it’s still over 2 if you take out the Auburn game he walked off the mound. Life is tough in this league with a flat FB no matter what the gun says.

I went through all this very hope and rationalization going into this year. We brought in a top 5 transfer class on paper and a top 5 recruiting class. And we were horrible. This staff just isn’t cut out for this.

 

[Perd Hapley]

I will give you Gartman. But thats what makes all this so bad. He was our Saturday starter for most of the year. Thats incredible. So if Cade leaves we have to find or develop an entire rotation

As for Dohm, he hasn’t thrown over 2 innings in his last 5 sec appearances. His WHIP is well over 2. And it’s still over 2 if you take out the Auburn game he walked off the mound. Life is tough in this league with a flat FB no matter what the gun says.

I went through all this very hope and rationalization going into this year. We brought in a top 5 transfer class on paper and a top 5 recruiting class. And we were horrible. This staff just isn’t cut out for this.

Gartman was the Saturday guy when Cade was hurt. He was the only guy we had besides Cade who could get through the order a few times. Ideally you have Kohn and Cade as the Friday / Saturday guys and you play it by ear week to week on Sunday which is what every SEC team does. Obviously didn’t play out that way though. Hurts to lose the only 2 experienced quality SEC arms you have for any length of time…..and we lost one for the whole year and the other for half the year.

As for Dohm, he hasn’t thrown more than 2 innings in last 5 appearances? That’s great but he really doesn’t need more than one inning….for the same reasons you mentioned. His whole game is timing disruption with velocity and once you’ve seen him once you can hit him easily. You face 4 or 5 guys in one inning, chances are you’re going to see one or two of those guys the next inning.

Again everyone knows we’ve had misses in recruiting and development for pitchers….particularly the 2021 class. 2022 was better and we have 10 guys signed for next year. There’s enough there to build a staff for 24/25 if our 2023 class is anything like the 2022 class. Loftin and Lo are good enough to be Fri / Sat guys next year under a competent pitching coach, and you can build from there. Now, is there confidence that it will be like 2022 (or better), and is there confidence that Lemonis can make a strong hire to develop them? Doubt anyone on here can answer those questions.

 

[HuntDawg]

Gartman was the Saturday guy when Cade was hurt. He was the only guy we had besides Cade who could get through the order a few times. Ideally you have Kohn and Cade as the Friday / Saturday guys and you play it by ear week to week on Sunday which is what every SEC team does. Obviously didn’t play out that way though. Hurts to lose the only 2 experienced quality SEC arms you have for any length of time…..and we lost one for the whole year and the other for half the year.

As for Dohm, he hasn’t thrown more than 2 innings in last 5 appearances? That’s great but he really doesn’t need more than one inning….for the same reasons you mentioned. His whole game is timing disruption with velocity and once you’ve seen him once you can hit him easily. You face 4 or 5 guys in one inning, chances are you’re going to see one or two of those guys the next inning.

Again everyone knows we’ve had misses in recruiting and development for pitchers….particularly the 2021 class. 2022 was better and we have 10 guys signed for next year. There’s enough there to build a staff for 24/25 if our 2023 class is anything like the 2022 class. Loftin and Lo are good enough to be Fri / Sat guys next year under a competent pitching coach, and you can build from there. Now, is there confidence that it will be like 2022 (or better), and is there confidence that Lemonis can make a strong hire to develop them? Doubt anyone on here can answer those questions.

Loftin and Lo are good enough to be Friday/Saturday guys? Their combined ERA's this year in conference are 11ish.

We are putting way too much into a pitching coach. Foxhall didnt become a bad pitching coach over night. The ol staying you cant turn chicken sh*t into chicken salad rings true here. We havent had the arms and dont have the arms.

If we are banking on Lo and Loftin to be our Friday/Saturday guys going into next season-- need to fire the staff and start over now.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Loftin and Lo are good enough to be Friday/Saturday guys? Their combined ERA's this year in conference are 11ish.

We are putting way too much into a pitching coach. Foxhall didnt become a bad pitching coach over night. The ol staying you cant turn chicken sh*t into chicken salad rings true here. We havent had the arms and dont have the arms.

If we are banking on Lo and Loftin to be our Friday/Saturday guys going into next season-- need to fire the staff and start over now.

Yes, they are good enough and have the talent. Each was a Top 100 national recruit that were wanted by a lot of schools. The guys that you sign and actually bring to school in that tier are the ones you expect to be weekend starters - eventually. But they are true freshmen…..they ain’t even supposed to be out there right now as key weekend contributors / starters. And Loftin isn’t….he’s only thrown 2.1 innings in SEC play.

The problems both currently have aren’t talent-based. They are classic freshmen control issues….which is where you need a good pitching coach to improve. Lo’s given up 33 free passes in 32 innings of SEC action. Loftin walked 4 guys and hit a guy in 2 innings in his only SEC appearance. When you have multiple good pitchers all with control problems, that’s a coaching issue.

 

[HuntDawg]

Loftin I'll reserve judgement on.

Lo, he's had his moment. He's not going to be someone you can build a staff around. 7 era overall tells me he was not only not ready for the SEC but to pitch in general. He'll probably be able to help the staff but not a Fri/Sat guy. If he is, we'll be a sizeable underdog in nearly every game he pitches next season. Control might be some of the issues, but he's giving up more than a hit an inning as well. Thats a stuff issue.

and if we are counting on 2 guys: 1 that barely pitched in the sec this season, and the other whose era is over 10 and cant go deeper than 5 innings: to be our main guys next season and the pillars to build around.... its going to be a HUGE struggle. As unfair as you might say its been on those freshman being thrown in the SEC mix, its equally as unfair to expect them to make the jump into a quality weekend arm just because a new pitching coach shows up

 

[HuntDawg]

Yes, they are good enough and have the talent. Each was a Top 100 national recruit that were wanted by a lot of schools. The guys that you sign and actually bring to school in that tier are the ones you expect to be weekend starters - eventually. But they are true freshmen…..they ain’t even supposed to be out there right now as key weekend contributors / starters. And Loftin isn’t….he’s only thrown 2.1 innings in SEC play.

The problems both currently have aren’t talent-based. They are classic freshmen control issues….which is where you need a good pitching coach to improve. Lo’s given up 33 free passes in 32 innings of SEC action. Loftin walked 4 guys and hit a guy in 2 innings in his only SEC appearance. When you have multiple good pitchers all with control problems, that’s a coaching issue.

I'll agree to disagree on multiple guys with control issues as being a coaching problem. I see it as a talent problem. This staff has recruited stuff over control. It hasnt worked out well.

 

[Perd Hapley]

I'll agree to disagree on multiple guys with control issues as being a coaching problem. I see it as a talent problem. This staff has recruited stuff over control. It hasnt worked out well.

This staff has recruited the same guys that other SEC schools have also been after hard (Kohn, Walker, Lo, Loftin, and others), so either every other staff is also dumb, or we had a coaching problem with pitchers. Everybody is after “stuff”.

 

[Perd Hapley]

As unfair as you might say its been on those freshman being thrown in the SEC mix, its equally as unfair to expect them to make the jump into a quality weekend arm just because a new pitching coach shows up

It’s not just from a new pitching coach showing up. It’s natural maturation, added strength and conditioning, working through things in summer ball and fall ball, and also a new pitching coach.

Go look at stats for Chris Stratton, Dakota Hudson, Austin Sexton, Zack Houston, Ethan Small, and others as true freshmen. They all sucked. You can’t make any determination on those 2 guys because they performed poorly as true freshmen under a pitching coach who was fired midseason. Their recruiting profiles are exactly what you look for in weekend starters. If you think it was a mistake to take them, say who we missed on that we should have landed instead of those guys who would have definitively performed better this season.

 

[maroonmania]

Gartman was the Saturday guy when Cade was hurt. He was the only guy we had besides Cade who could get through the order a few times. Ideally you have Kohn and Cade as the Friday / Saturday guys and you play it by ear week to week on Sunday which is what every SEC team does. Obviously didn’t play out that way though. Hurts to lose the only 2 experienced quality SEC arms you have for any length of time…..and we lost one for the whole year and the other for half the year.

Early in the year Gartman was one of the few guys we had that could pitch without walking everyone. He has been reasonably effective for a lot of his starts the first 2 times through the order. We've left him in too long because we've had nobody else to relieve him and that's jacked up his ERA..

 

[HuntDawg]

This staff has recruited the same guys that other SEC schools have also been after hard (Kohn, Walker, Lo, Loftin, and others), so either every other staff is also dumb, or we had a coaching problem with pitchers. Everybody is after “stuff”.

Who people recruit and who they dont is almost impossible to say. Everyone now days claims they chose someone over school a, b, or c… but its impossible to know how much interest the school had in return. That said, the Lo, Loftin, Walker, Kohn, etc. Might have been recruited but been numbers 10-14 on LSUs board to whomevers board and they didnt get them because they signed numbers 1-5 instead.

Everyone is after “Stuff”.

Foxhall was the same guy that coached during the championship run. He didnt all of a sudden forget how to be a pitchign coach.

But we can agree to disagree. To me its not a coaching problem, its a cant make chicken salad outta chicken shot problem. We dont have the talent, and haven’t had the talent on the mound. These freshman arms we have aren’t difference makers

 

[maroonmania]

Loftin and Lo are good enough to be Friday/Saturday guys? Their combined ERA's this year in conference are 11ish.

We are putting way too much into a pitching coach. Foxhall didnt become a bad pitching coach over night. The ol staying you cant turn chicken sh*t into chicken salad rings true here. We havent had the arms and dont have the arms.

If we are banking on Lo and Loftin to be our Friday/Saturday guys going into next season-- need to fire the staff and start over now.

The problem can be your pitching coach though when you overemphasize velo and spin rate over evaluating whether a guy can actually pitch or not. Give me a guy in college that can locate and change speeds and I will show you a successful college pitcher.

 

[HuntDawg]

It’s not just from a new pitching coach showing up. It’s natural maturation, added strength and conditioning, working through things in summer ball and fall ball, and also a new pitching coach.

Go look at stats for Chris Stratton, Dakota Hudson, Austin Sexton, Zack Houston, Ethan Small, and others as true freshmen. They all sucked. You can’t make any determination on those 2 guys because they performed poorly as true freshmen under a pitching coach who was fired midseason. Their recruiting profiles are exactly what you look for in weekend starters. If you think it was a mistake to take them, say who we missed on that we should have landed instead of those guys who would have definitively performed better this season.

I dont follow the recruiting trails to know who we should have taken over them. And quiet frankly no one can unless your going to games yourself or combing thru perfect game profiles And take what they say to be the gospel

That said, you are right, plenty of freshman come in and struggle year 1. However there are plenty that come in and are successful.

Ive said I’ll hold judgement on Loftis, but no LO. Lo isn’t what you project as a weekend starter. Weve fell in love with the novelty of him throwing with both hands. He’s probably not even worthy of a scholarship roster spot from the left side

Sorry I just dont see the talent in the freshman arms. I think they are role type guys, pen fillers mid week guys, etc. I dont think any of them are weekend type build staff around arms (withholding loftis judgement)