Biggest loser in the O'Connor hiring?

[TheBannerM]

Besides obviously UVa is...Jeff Lebby. The contrast between the perception of the baseball program vs. the football program is *stark*. It seems like State will be a hot commodity for transfer portal baseball recruits, while Lebby is out here committing junior punters.

The amount of juice surrounding the football program is as low as the dark days of Arnett and Croom. The only way out is coaching and development. May God have mercy on our souls.

 

[HailStout]

You aren’t wrong

 

[QuadrupleOption]

There is no development any more, at least not long-term. You let other teams develop young players then poach them in the hopes you can cobble together a team good enough to vie for a bowl slot.

Bigger teams poach our best while we poach from the G4. It's the new cycle of life. It all comes down to money and coaching. Mostly money.

 

[patdog]

Lebby's going to make $18,000,000 for about 5 wins. Biggest loser is our fans for us hiring him.

 

[Willow Grove Dawg]

The Intense Bastard is Top 5 because Selmon made the hire that Cohen told us that he would make

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Lebby's going to make $18,000,000 for about 5 wins. Biggest loser is our fans for us hiring him.

Well, when you put it that way….yeesh

 

[GloryDawg]

Lebby's going to make $18,000,000 for about 5 wins. Biggest loser is our fans for us hiring him.

Heck Arnett got us that for half the money and he only had one season to do it.

 

[maroontide06]

Lebby's going to make $18,000,000 for about 5 wins. Biggest loser is our fans for us hiring him.

Where do you see 5 wins?

 

[Dawgg]

Where do you see 5 wins?

I think he means over the course of his tenure here. He’s almost halfway there.

 

[maroontide06]

I think he means over the course of his tenure here. He’s almost halfway there.

Good God that's depressing as heck.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Good God that's depressing as heck.

That’s football…

 

[patdog]

Where do you see 5 wins?

2 last year and 3 this year. I'm an optimist.

 

[Darryl Steight]

The amount of juice surrounding the football program is a low as the dark days of Arnett and Croom.

Disagree. I may be a lone voice in the wilderness with this take, but I expect us to be noticeably better on the field this year, although the schedule is ridiculous so it may not show up in wins. But we will be able to see progress, and then maybe next year it can show up on the scoreboard. I am still holding some faith that Lebby is a good offensive mind, and is learning (hopefully quickly) the head coach position and other parts of coaching on the job. I think big picture, the guy can recruit, he just needs the team to show some progress on the field to make it a little easier for him.

We won't be world beaters, but nothing near as dark as the 'days of no hope' that you're comparing it to.

 

[GloryDawg]

Disagree. I may be a lone voice in the wilderness with this take, but I expect us to be noticeably better on the field this year, although the schedule is ridiculous so it may not show up in wins. But we will be able to see progress, and then maybe next year it can show up on the scoreboard. I am still holding some faith that Lebby is a good offensive mind, and is learning (hopefully quickly) the head coach position and other parts of coaching on the job. I think big picture, the guy can recruit, he just needs the team to show some progress on the field to make it a little easier for him.

We won't be world beaters, but nothing near as dark as the 'days of no hope' that you're comparing it to.

I feel good about the offense. We need Shapen not to run the ball like a fullback. He needs to learn to slide. I feel good about the portal talent brought in for defense but really worry about the coaching on that side of the ball. He cannot wait until half to make adjustments. He has to do in game right after each offensive series. If the defense doesn't show any signs of improvement there better be a sit down with Lebby to make the adjustments needed. I think Lebby is here at least this season and next. I hope things get turn around.

 

[patdog]

I feel good about the offense. We need Shapen not to run the ball like a fullback. He needs to learn to slide. I feel good about the portal talent brought in for defense but really worry about the coaching on that side of the ball. He cannot wait until half to make adjustments. He has to do in game right after each offensive series. If the defense doesn't show any signs of improvement there better be a sit down with Lebby to make the adjustments needed. I think Lebby is here at least this season and next. I hope things get turn around.

Upgraded at RB and QB (if we can keep him healthy - but even if not shouldn't be any worse than last year). But WR is a big downgrade and OL is a push at best.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Lebby's going to make $18,000,000 for about 5 wins. Biggest loser is our fans for us hiring him.

 

[TheBannerM]

Disagree. I may be a lone voice in the wilderness with this take, but I expect us to be noticeably better on the field this year, although the schedule is ridiculous so it may not show up in wins. But we will be able to see progress, and then maybe next year it can show up on the scoreboard. I am still holding some faith that Lebby is a good offensive mind, and is learning (hopefully quickly) the head coach position and other parts of coaching on the job. I think big picture, the guy can recruit, he just needs the team to show some progress on the field to make it a little easier for him.

We won't be world beaters, but nothing near as dark as the 'days of no hope' that you're comparing it to.

I'm talking purely from a outside looking in perspective. The outlook on the program is moribund. Fans, media, recruits...they all look at State as the new Vandy. I don't know if Mississippi HS recruiting is down, but looks like Lebby is putting together one of the worst in-state hauls in over a decade.

On the other hand, all those negatives could change with an exciting offense and a few upsets.

 

[TheBannerM]

There is no development any more, at least not long-term. You let other teams develop young players then poach them in the hopes you can cobble together a team good enough to vie for a bowl slot.

Bigger teams poach our best while we poach from the G4. It's the new cycle of life. It all comes down to money and coaching. Mostly money.

This not close to being true. Outside of a handful of teams like Colorado, etc, schools don't have the kind of roster churn we have seen. Sure everyone has kids transferring in and out, but the good, stable programs still develop HS players.

 

[Darryl Steight]

I feel good about the offense. We need Shapen not to run the ball like a fullback. He needs to learn to slide. I feel good about the portal talent brought in for defense but really worry about the coaching on that side of the ball. He cannot wait until half to make adjustments. He has to do in game right after each offensive series. If the defense doesn't show any signs of improvement there better be a sit down with Lebby to make the adjustments needed. I think Lebby is here at least this season and next. I hope things get turn around.

This may be wishful thinking, or I may be clinically insane after years of Statefandom, but I believe the additions of Paul Rhoads and Mike MacIntyre were huge in the offseason and will help tremendously on that side of the ball.

Two former D1 head coaches who are defensive guys has to help... doesn't it?

 

[Darryl Steight]

Upgraded at RB and QB (if we can keep him healthy - but even if not shouldn't be any worse than last year). But WR is a big downgrade and OL is a push at best.

That interview with Hadad made me believe Shapen is going to slide more. He said he understood he can help more from the field than he can holding a clipboard. Here's hoping.

Other than Coleman, I'm not sure how we could downgrade at WR or only stay even OL. Seems like we could/should have upgraded easily after what we put out last year. But I will admit I haven't studied the roster closely.

But again, I also might be crazy. It may sound like I'm predicting the team to be good, which I'm really not. Just "better".

 

[aTotal360]

Lebby's going to make $18,000,000 for about 5 wins. Biggest loser is our fans for us hiring him.

As usual.

 

[GloryDawg]

Upgraded at RB and QB (if we can keep him healthy - but even if not shouldn't be any worse than last year). But WR is a big downgrade and OL is a push at best.

To be honest with me I don't know or have any idea how the portal guys are going to pan out. Most of them did not see the field too much because there were better four stars ahead of them. Some of these guys might turn out to be the real deal. I am hoping but not too confident. Most of his portal guys flopped last season I am giving a little slack due to time he had to evaluate.

 

[onewoof]

Lebby's going to make $18,000,000 for about 5 wins. Biggest loser is our fans for us hiring him.

While other coaches make $1M per win, Lebby is making 3X that. This is true. Low expectations, low results, high salary.

 

[patdog]

To be honest with me I don't know or have any idea how the portal guys are going to pan out. Most of them did not see the field too much because there were better four stars ahead of them. Some of these guys might turn out to be the real deal. I am hoping but not too confident. Most of his portal guys flopped last season I am giving a little slack due to time he had to evaluate.

Look at who else was recruiting them. It's not pretty.

 

[Howiefeltersnstch]

Say what ya want but that 50% improvement. I see an extension coming

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Two former D1 head coaches who are defensive guys has to help... doesn't it?

Didn’t we have three former D1 head coaches on the defensive side the last year Jackie was coach?

 

[Darryl Steight]

Didn’t we have three former D1 head coaches on the defensive side the last year Jackie was coach?

Well I didn't say it was a foolproof formula.

But I would also take Paul Rhoads in an IQ contest against Curley Hallman too.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

There is no development any more, at least not long-term. You let other teams develop young players then poach them in the hopes you can cobble together a team good enough to vie for a bowl slot.

Bigger teams poach our best while we poach from the G4. It's the new cycle of life. It all comes down to money and coaching. Mostly money.

This is why I'm no longer very serious about college sports. At least in pro sports, you have a salary cap.

 

[onewoof]

This is why I'm no longer very serious about college sports. At least in pro sports, you have a salary cap.

It is crazy right now. Recruits that are "committed" are salaried at $120K/year. Then you have the salaried employees/atheletes 2 deeps that run some schools up into $20M/year.

• Georgia dropping $80M for a football megaplex 2 years ago to follow a $90M stadium/megaplex upgrade in 2017.
• Texas A&M dropping a cool $485M to rebuild its football stadium a few years ago.
• Bama football megaplex cost $80M in 2019
• Texas leasing out Lambos at $0 cost to players.

 

[HRMSU]

This not close to being true. Outside of a handful of teams like Colorado, etc, schools don't have the kind of roster churn we have seen. Sure everyone has kids transferring in and out, but the good, stable programs still develop HS players.

I don't know it's more like pro ball now. I could be wrong but a development focused program seems like they would be stuck in neutral forever.

For example, signing a high school lineman that may take a year or two to see the field and then get scooped up by another SEC team if they ball out is not a good plan. If that position can't start right away then pivot to portal. Same with most of the roster. If we want to compete in this new world of BS "college" semi pro football we should build a system that purposely churns and burns with a purpose. The Kang probably would have thrived in this new world of whatever it is.

 

[TheBannerM]

I don't know it's more like pro ball now. I could be wrong but a development focused program seems like they would be stuck in neutral forever.

For example, signing a high school lineman that may take a year or two to see the field and then get scooped up by another SEC team if they ball out is not a good plan. If that position can't start right away then pivot to portal. Same with most of the roster. If we want to compete in this new world of BS "college" semi pro football we should build a system that purposely churns and burns with a purpose. The Kang probably would have thrived in this new world of whatever it is.

Sherrill tried to "churn and burn" with the Juco system and ended up getting "retired."

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Another big loser: SPS Haters of Classic TV Western Themes…

 

[OG Goat Holder]

The Intense Bastard is Top 5, but Selmon made the hire that Cohen told us that he would make

Cohen was 50% on football hires and 100% on baseball hire (he won us a national title).

If Selmon can hit a home run on the next football hire, he'll be equal.

 

[Dawg1976]

2 last year and 3 this year. I'm an optimist.

He’s making $9 mil a year?

 

[dickiedawg]

Something Robbie or Hadad said on Thunder & Lightning this morning made me recall the Croom years. Something like “What do you expect, you’ve got to win before kids will want to sign here.”
Depressing.

 

[CaptainFalcon]

Something Robbie or Hadad said on Thunder & Lightning this morning made me recall the Croom years. Something like “What do you expect, you’ve got to win before kids will want to sign here.”
Depressing.

I mean our only two wins last year were Eastern Kentucky and UMass. We have one SEC win in the last two years, and it was a game that finished 7-3. We have pretty much turned the clock back to 2005 on this thing.

 

[patdog]

He’s making $9 mil a year?

He's getting paid for 4 years even if we fire him in December.

 

[HRMSU]

Sherrill tried to "churn and burn" with the Juco system and ended up getting "retired."

Different world back then right? Sherrill just had the Jucos, and regular players had to sit a year if they transferred. Not to mention paying players was illegal. I think he would do just fine in today's world.....in fact it's kind of tailor made for him.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Outside of a handful of teams like Colorado, etc, schools don't have the kind of roster churn we have seen.

Wait, so you're telling me this is a BAD thing???? A number of posters have gone to great lengths to convince me and others that we needed to run off Leach's guys. And the dirty little secret is, Leach's guys, even with bad coaching, went 5-7. Lebby ran them off and went 2-10. Now Lebby is running off HIS OWN players, yet we're still supposed to believe this is Leach's fault? They can sell that elsewhere.

I don't know it's more like pro ball now. I could be wrong but a development focused program seems like they would be stuck in neutral forever.

For example, signing a high school lineman that may take a year or two to see the field and then get scooped up by another SEC team if they ball out is not a good plan. If that position can't start right away then pivot to portal. Same with most of the roster. If we want to compete in this new world of BS "college" semi pro football we should build a system that purposely churns and burns with a purpose. The Kang probably would have thrived in this new world of whatever it is.

Sherrill tried to "churn and burn" with the Juco system and ended up getting "retired."

Both of you are somewhat correct. There will be 'some' churn and burn. We really just need to have a strategic plan of doing it. 1 - where and what type of high school players, 2 - where and what type of older transfer players do we target for holes, AND replace other transfers with, and 3 - what other supplemental ways can we bridge the gaps (weight training, NIL planning, etc.).

We can't just go out and cut players that don't contribute immediately, and replace them by throwing money at the portal.

 

[bulldoghair]

There is no development any more, at least not long-term. You let other teams develop young players then poach them in the hopes you can cobble together a team good enough to vie for a bowl slot.

Bigger teams poach our best while we poach from the G4. It's the new cycle of life. It all comes down to money and coaching. Mostly money

If we ran a niche system, much less come schemes on offense and defense, we could utilize talent in different ways, minimizing poachers poaching us, and thus then being able to develope players along the way as well.