Buffalo Bills getting new $1.4B stadium
- Thread starter ChiTownLionPSU
- Start date
sweet when taxpayers fund your private business
They say the breakeven is 22 years.
Should hopefully free up some funds for Terry to invest in Dear Old State.
Don't expect the Super Bowl to ever be played there, thought it would be fantastic if they did.
Hey, NIL's Success with Honor hit $50,000 in one day. One day. Who do you think is putting up that kind of dough? Not everyone wants the publicity (and tax deductible management fees) like dear old Ira.
Ira's philanthropy and altruism know no bounds. Think of the free casino buffet as alms for the poor. Makes you all warm and fuzzy when you see it in that light.
Last edited:
Breathtaking bucks for an open-air stadium...in Buffalo NY. Bread and circuses don't come cheap.
I live in NY and budget has not passed yet-so curious as to how legislatures handle Bills stadium funding. Bills do bring a lot of revenue into NY state and they are the only NFL team that actually plays in the state. Just unfortunate that the new stadiums have less capacity and there is NO mass transit to Orchard Park-best game day parking is on neighbors' front lawns! Renovating stadium was not an option because structural engineers said that the stadium needed 1 billion in repairs to be safe. Curious what structural engineers say about Beaver Stadium ( I personally hope Beaver can be renovated-at my older age doubtful I would see much of a new stadium!).
Have to think there are much better uses for $850mm than to build an athletic shrine for a private company that will be used about 10-14 weekends a year.
I've thought that way too but realized most of Beaver Stadium is older than where the Bills currently play. A renovation of Beaver Stadium would really be an on-site rebuild like Texas A&M. I understand the sentimentality of playing at the same location but it would be faster and more economical to build on a clean slate. Do it across the street like the Bills are doing.
Structural engineers have had their concerns about the Beav. I think our boy, Scott Radecic is working on the project - or at least looked at the issues and developed some engineering costs.
Radecic's firm also designed the south upper deck. The restroom design is horrible and the placement of the concession stands sucks.
Scott Radecic's company Populous is doing the Bills new stadium and proposed the master plan for PSU facilities including Beaver Stadium.
Those faults had more to do with footprint and capital constraints than it did with the design company. If you look at the work of Populous across the board, their work is stellar.
It comes down to the cost/benefit analysis…if the Bills head somewhere else that will assist in building them a stadium, how much $ does Buffalo/NY lose out on from those fans/tickets/hotels/food/etc in those ~350 games over 30 years (plus anything else the stadium is used for).
Not exactly apples to apples, but missing out on football for a season was a pretty big hit to the State College economy.
I believe most economic analysis of publicly funded stadiums conclude they are not worth the investment for the public.
As to how much Buffalo loses out, well, they still have the $800mm to do something else with to improve the lives of its citizens - infrastructure, education, other public facilities, better pay/benefits for teachers, etc.
“NFL stadiums do not generate significant local economic growth, and the incremental tax revenue is not sufficient to cover any significant financial contribution by the city,” said Noll, a senior fellow at the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research. He has written articles and books and given talks on the public financing of sports stadiums.
Currently, stadium proposals for NFL teams are circulating in St. Louis, Los Angeles, San Diego and Cleveland, while San Francisco and other cities and states like Wisconsin are considering public funding for new or improved sports facilities. Local officials in Oakland, California, are expected to respond to a “Coliseum City” proposal in August with a December deadline for closing any deal.
Noll said that because football stadiums are used so infrequently – two preseason games, eight regular season games and possibly a couple of playoff games – they do not realize a large economic benefit from those games alone. Realizing this, the San Francisco 49ers’ new Levi’s Stadium, which opened last year, has played host to several other events, including concerts and college football, soccer and hockey games.
Sports stadiums don't spur economic growth, Stanford expert says
Stanford economist Roger Noll says professional sports stadiums do not generate local economic growth as advertised. He also says the stadium costs that NFL teams expect local governments to contribute have fallen due to increased political resistance to subsidies for sports teams.
news.stanford.edu
The Economics of Sports Stadiums: Does public financing of sports stadiums create local economic growth, or just help billionaires improve their profit margin?
KARTHIK VEGESNA - APRIL 4, 2019 Sports fans can be irrational. To someone watching from
econreview.berkeley.edu
Publicly funding stadiums for billionaires is a scam
A new Panthers stadium is the latest chapter in sports’ most successful scam.
www.sbnation.com
Sports, Jobs, & Taxes: Are New Stadiums Worth the Cost?
Brookings Review article by Roger G. Noll and Andrew Zimbalist (Summer 1997)
www.brookings.edu
I think a big part of it comes down to the chances a team will leave the city if you’d don’t help them with a new stadium…in Buffalo’s case, it seems like there was a good chance they end up elsewhere.
And then what? Who will take them? Cities are wising up to the fraud that is publicly funded stadiums for billionaires. Let them go elsewhere, or better yet, let Terry pay for his own stadium.
A single door in and out of the bathrooms is an all-time head scratcher. But hey, I'm just some guy that pisses in there a handful of times a year, so what do I know.
PSU football attracts a lot of non-residents. The problem with that analysis for the NFL is that most attendees are Buffalo residents who would otherwise spend their discretionary money on other local goods and services rather than football. That is what the politicians who want to pay off billionaires (for campaign contributions?) leave out in their comparisons.
Right. Another 'catch' is that for many of these deals, the team owner retains almost all of the revenue from non-football related events. So, all the parking fees and revenue from concerts goes to their coffers. And when the city/state does get some of that revenue, they have to use it to pay on the debt they incurred to fund the stadium.
The WaPo has some great info on the ridiculous deal some VA lawmakers were trying to give to Dan Snyder so he could relocate the Commanders. Hope like hell that never happens.
I’d guess that more people are traveling to Bills games than you think…I know several season ticket holders in Binghamton that are usually booking rooms in casinos before/after games, a friend in Philly that’s a bills fan that goes up at least twice/year, etc.
And I don’t think the Bills are making a killing on parking like we do at PSU…the parking situation there is tough, and most people are paying residents, churches, businesses, etc.
And only 60k seats. Quite expensive for a stadium with that small of a capacity. And I’m sure future seat prices will stop some current diehards from being able to afford to keep season tix.
That entire South end zone design is a disgrace Not sure who approved it but it is a shambles I know I used to try and avoid that area
And yet others experts dispute those type of findings so go figureI believe most economic analysis of publicly funded stadiums conclude they are not worth the investment for the public.
As to how much Buffalo loses out, well, they still have the $800mm to do something else with to improve the lives of its citizens - infrastructure, education, other public facilities, better pay/benefits for teachers, etc.
“NFL stadiums do not generate significant local economic growth, and the incremental tax revenue is not sufficient to cover any significant financial contribution by the city,” said Noll, a senior fellow at the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research. He has written articles and books and given talks on the public financing of sports stadiums.
Currently, stadium proposals for NFL teams are circulating in St. Louis, Los Angeles, San Diego and Cleveland, while San Francisco and other cities and states like Wisconsin are considering public funding for new or improved sports facilities. Local officials in Oakland, California, are expected to respond to a “Coliseum City” proposal in August with a December deadline for closing any deal.
Noll said that because football stadiums are used so infrequently – two preseason games, eight regular season games and possibly a couple of playoff games – they do not realize a large economic benefit from those games alone. Realizing this, the San Francisco 49ers’ new Levi’s Stadium, which opened last year, has played host to several other events, including concerts and college football, soccer and hockey games.
Sports stadiums don't spur economic growth, Stanford expert says
Stanford economist Roger Noll says professional sports stadiums do not generate local economic growth as advertised. He also says the stadium costs that NFL teams expect local governments to contribute have fallen due to increased political resistance to subsidies for sports teams.
The Economics of Sports Stadiums: Does public financing of sports stadiums create local economic growth, or just help billionaires improve their profit margin?
KARTHIK VEGESNA - APRIL 4, 2019 Sports fans can be irrational. To someone watching from
Publicly funding stadiums for billionaires is a scam
A new Panthers stadium is the latest chapter in sports’ most successful scam.
Sports, Jobs, & Taxes: Are New Stadiums Worth the Cost?
Brookings Review article by Roger G. Noll and Andrew Zimbalist (Summer 1997)
TYI believe most economic analysis of publicly funded stadiums conclude they are not worth the investment for the public.
As to how much Buffalo loses out, well, they still have the $800mm to do something else with to improve the lives of its citizens - infrastructure, education, other public facilities, better pay/benefits for teachers, etc.
“NFL stadiums do not generate significant local economic growth, and the incremental tax revenue is not sufficient to cover any significant financial contribution by the city,” said Noll, a senior fellow at the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research. He has written articles and books and given talks on the public financing of sports stadiums.
Currently, stadium proposals for NFL teams are circulating in St. Louis, Los Angeles, San Diego and Cleveland, while San Francisco and other cities and states like Wisconsin are considering public funding for new or improved sports facilities. Local officials in Oakland, California, are expected to respond to a “Coliseum City” proposal in August with a December deadline for closing any deal.
Noll said that because football stadiums are used so infrequently – two preseason games, eight regular season games and possibly a couple of playoff games – they do not realize a large economic benefit from those games alone. Realizing this, the San Francisco 49ers’ new Levi’s Stadium, which opened last year, has played host to several other events, including concerts and college football, soccer and hockey games.
Sports stadiums don't spur economic growth, Stanford expert says
Stanford economist Roger Noll says professional sports stadiums do not generate local economic growth as advertised. He also says the stadium costs that NFL teams expect local governments to contribute have fallen due to increased political resistance to subsidies for sports teams.
The Economics of Sports Stadiums: Does public financing of sports stadiums create local economic growth, or just help billionaires improve their profit margin?
KARTHIK VEGESNA - APRIL 4, 2019 Sports fans can be irrational. To someone watching from
Publicly funding stadiums for billionaires is a scam
A new Panthers stadium is the latest chapter in sports’ most successful scam.
Sports, Jobs, & Taxes: Are New Stadiums Worth the Cost?
Brookings Review article by Roger G. Noll and Andrew Zimbalist (Summer 1997)
Do facts still matter?
Not to mention, orchard park is not really that close to downtown Buffalo. About 15 miles or so. I imagine the biggest value Bills bring to Buffalo in terms of business are food and alcohol sales on game day in all the restaurants and bars. I think the amount of game attendees staying in hotels is probably pretty small.
Toronto would take them and probably pay for the stadium.
Forget Buffalo, Josh Allen and the Bills Might Be Playing Their Home Games in Toronto Soon
Josh Allen and the Buffalo Bills could play games in Toronto, Canada, while a new stadium is built in New York.
www.sportscasting.com
Toronto would take them and probably pay for the stadium.
Forget Buffalo, Josh Allen and the Bills Might Be Playing Their Home Games in Toronto Soon
Josh Allen and the Buffalo Bills could play games in Toronto, Canada, while a new stadium is built in New York.
I’d love to see it.
Looks like the $800M cut in funding for the Office of Children and Family Services may be a coincidence, indeed, FWIW. Doesn't take away from your broader point.
"Although the number may seem shocking, state leaders from the Governor's office and the Office of Children and Family Services tell CNY Central the absence of one-time pandemic relief money that was there before is the reason behind it."
Hochul's proposed NYS budget cuts Children and Family Services funding by $800M
New York State Governor Kathy Hochul's $216 billion proposed budget is under legislative review by the Senate and Assembly right now, and in the next week or so the senate will vote to enact it. In that proposed budget, there are categories that show the spending of those dollars in different areas.
cnycentral.com
Looks like the $800M cut in funding for the Office of Children and Family Services may be a coincidence, indeed, FWIW. Doesn't take away from your broader point.
"Although the number may seem shocking, state leaders from the Governor's office and the Office of Children and Family Services tell CNY Central the absence of one-time pandemic relief money that was there before is the reason behind it."
Hochul's proposed NYS budget cuts Children and Family Services funding by $800M
New York State Governor Kathy Hochul's $216 billion proposed budget is under legislative review by the Senate and Assembly right now, and in the next week or so the senate will vote to enact it. In that proposed budget, there are categories that show the spending of those dollars in different areas.
Right - didn’t mean to imply that is where the stadium money came from.
They should just play their games in the Carrier Dome.
You would have to go back when the Steelers and Eagles were building their stadiums and other teams were doing their stadiums as well I often wonder how they come up with these studies and what they are based on because If you have gone to events in these places , there is a definite draw of fans
For instance in Altoona and surrounding areas here Penn State football is a huge draw for the area business The Altoona Mirror did an article years ago about this and the hotels and eateries for 7 weekends had huge draws from this soooo
Get unlimited access today.