As per yesterday's "media day," Croom mentioned using both Carroll and Lee. Is this what the offense needs?
Buy/Sell 2 QB System is what the offense needs
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As per yesterday's "media day," Croom mentioned using both Carroll and Lee. Is this what the offense needs?
Yes, I said Top 8...which means something like 100 yards more per game. I think we are a good candidate for a 2 QB system simply because we dont have a single QB that, at least at this point, is worthy of 100% of the snaps.
I'm sure there are a million pros and cons to this that will be discussed, but I don't mind the coach changing up something. I would be upset if he continued what we called an offense last year with no changes.
He also mentioned some variation in offensive scheme on the 10:00 news.
He also mentioned some variation in offensive scheme on the 10:00 news.
simply because no one has ever used a two QB system and gotten good results from it in terms of wins and production.
But I pushed because, just because the fact it hasn't worked before why does that mean that it can't work anywhere else? Even at MSU?
Heck, our offensive numbers have been so bad, chances are that it will make our offense at least look like it's getting better statistically speaking.
The only way I could see a two-QB system working effectively would be if you had a drop back QB like a Peyton Manning and then a dual threat QB like Vince Young. There's a part of me that WANTS a two QB system to work, anyway just to prove the naysayers wrong.
I think what ultimately happens is a coach will say that they are going to use a two QB system, and then they end up favoring one QB over the other and stick with that QB.
But I pushed because, just because the fact it hasn't worked before why does that mean that it can't work anywhere else? Even at MSU?
Heck, our offensive numbers have been so bad, chances are that it will make our offense at least look like it's getting better statistically speaking.
The only way I could see a two-QB system working effectively would be if you had a drop back QB like a Peyton Manning and then a dual threat QB like Vince Young. There's a part of me that WANTS a two QB system to work, anyway just to prove the naysayers wrong.
I think what ultimately happens is a coach will say that they are going to use a two QB system, and then they end up favoring one QB over the other and stick with that QB.
And I think Florida will do something similar this year with Cam Newton. I do agree though that the system only works if you have each of them running different sets. In 2006, Leak ran the primary offense and Tebow came in primarily as a runner, though he did mix in some simple passing game to keep the defense honest.
That's what Florida is going to do this year as well most likely to take some of the load off Tebow when it comes to the running offense.
If you've got 2 QBs and you're running them basically with the same type of system, and the only reason you're using both is because you can't pick out which one is better, then it's a problem. When that happens, you usually end up fighting with yourself on when to take out a struggling QB or when to insert the other QB if one of them appears to be doing ok, and usually it just collapses.
That's what Florida is going to do this year as well most likely to take some of the load off Tebow when it comes to the running offense.
If you've got 2 QBs and you're running them basically with the same type of system, and the only reason you're using both is because you can't pick out which one is better, then it's a problem. When that happens, you usually end up fighting with yourself on when to take out a struggling QB or when to insert the other QB if one of them appears to be doing ok, and usually it just collapses.
brought in to do different things, i.e. Leak and Tebow, Flynn and Perriloux, etc. In other words, if we had a passing quarterback and wanted to bring in a running threat, that's one thing, if we are playing two quarterbacks to essentially do the same thing (i.e. move the offense by throwing the football when needed), that just means that one qb has not clearly emerged as the better player, and that rarely works. Essentially Tebow and Perriloux were runningbacks that were threats to throw in those games, not "second quarterbacks."
Miami, VaTech, Bayor, and even Auburn are all talking about doing it. In Auburn's case, it seems to be based on the mix of spread and pro sets they use same thing with VaTech. I'm not sure the advantage that Croom will gain from doing this. But, having said that, I don't think it is unequivocally stupid or anything. There's aways a balance between having a regimented system where each get equal snaps and staying with whomever is hot. There were times over the past three years when I wished that CEO would have done it. My guess is that even if he starts the season with two, by season's end one or the other will emerge as being noticeably more stable.</p>
It worked for Spurriur at Florida in the late 90s. He would rotate Doug Johnson and Jesse Palmer after each play sometimes. Alabama also rotated Andrew Zow and Tyler Watts some during their 1999 SEC championship season. In the Orange Bowl, they rotated them each series, and they did ring up 34 points on Michigan (of course it helped that they had Shaun Alexander.)
DamnitDog said:
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that's worried about this whole "Two QB" discussion? You're post is exactly why, although I haven't seen Lee a whole lot, from watching the spring game (enhanced version) he just doesn't seem to be all that much different than Carroll. He may be a little more mobile than Carroll, but he didn't exacly look like Vince Young out there either.
I'm afraid that Croom might have a man crush for Lee like he did with Henig. We're seriously talking about a walk-on who had offers from no one else with no SEC experience being our starting QB, or at the very least sharing the job. I don't care that he was a four star based on Gene's JUCO rating system, which probably was devleoped in 1999 to boost up the rating of people like Danny Snyder, and I don't buy the no offers because he was 5'10". If you can play, someone is going to offer you. That's the bottom line.
The other possibility is that maybe Carroll isn't coming along as expected. Which, considering the MSU QB development program of promising Fr. year followed by horrible So. year is also quite likely. Of course Carroll will ponder transferring and be ridiculed by our fanbase along with various injuries his junior year before redeeming himself his senior year. Just like Matt Wyatt.
for the past several seasons we have had a whole lot of nothing in the cupboard as far as quarterbacks. Now it seems we got two legit candidates.
As far as him not getting offers, he's a Juco qb. He has 2 years of eligibility left. Most schools are not gonna waste a scholarship on a qb with 2 years left. You gotta figure the majority need a year to learn the offense well enough to run it so all your left with is a guy who may or may not pan out for one year. Also, talent does fly under the radar all the time. Look at the NFL rosters at all the guys from no name colleges or just ask Kurt Warner.
As far as him not getting offers, he's a Juco qb. He has 2 years of eligibility left. Most schools are not gonna waste a scholarship on a qb with 2 years left. You gotta figure the majority need a year to learn the offense well enough to run it so all your left with is a guy who may or may not pan out for one year. Also, talent does fly under the radar all the time. Look at the NFL rosters at all the guys from no name colleges or just ask Kurt Warner.
Its been really hard to decipher Croom since Lee has come on the scene. He keeps saying Carroll is obviously the better leader, has moxie, smart, more accurate, etc. Then turns around and says Lee has the quicker release and the stronger arm. So we use Carroll for short passes and Lee for the bombs? And I thought going into this season that Relf might be the option type guy or the one with the mobility to run off the option. However, Croom said in a nuttshell that Relf is not good at this point and has slid him to Third team.Todd4State said:
I don't know, it seems ever since the Staff went to "visit" four other "nameless" schools to pick-up better schemes, we've all of a sudden switched to a 2 QB system. I suspect Croom and Co. want to do some new things which Carroll can't do and maybe Lee can I guess. I just hope both stay healthy b/c we sure as hell don't need Relf in there after what Croom said about him.
Side note: when our coaching staff "visited" these "nameless" schools to pick up ideas of new offensive schemes how in the hell did they NOT pick up a new offensive coordinator and kick Woody to the curb?
Croom has stated repeatedly that Carroll is the starter. He has said that he will use Lee in some situations, and he has said that he will see time. I think he's being nice in the media to Lee. Carroll is the starter, Lee is the backup, Relf is the <17>up. We'll bring in Lee in some situations but he won't start unless he simply shows up Carroll. And after watching the spring game, I wasn't impressed with Lee either. His hype is purely message board hype.
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Woody is here to stay as long as Croom is here unless Woody picks up a SWAC HC job. Which, I pray is soon.
Says something (at least to many fans) about the coach's confidence in either quarterback. Everybody on the same page behind a single starter is usually best. That's not to say 2 QB system can never work.
H
hacksaw
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Just an observation on the past...did you ever notice how effective Omar was when calling his own plays from the shotgun. Maybe it just me, but he could make things happen when backed in a corner. I think that there is no doubt that he was put in a situation that limited his effectiveness.
ituation, using two quarterbacks is simply a tool used to increase performance at the position. Steve Spurrier was a master at playing his quarterbacks against each other in order to get the level of performance he required at the position.
The coaches have set qb performance goals. I hope they let both guys compete on the field to see who can meet and hopefully exceed the goals.
The coaches have set qb performance goals. I hope they let both guys compete on the field to see who can meet and hopefully exceed the goals.
like he was with Henig. I'm surprised people are raising objections to this, and I really like Wes Carroll. But let's face it, open competition is good and refusal to just name someone starting QB come rain or shine is, I think, a good sign of some of Croom's stubborness slipping away. Let me put it this way, when you have an offense in the 100's you can't really do much to get worse.
goes back to Henig and his inexplicable man crush on the guy. Croom has shown that as far as the QB position is concerned, if he LIKES you, your ability can be overlooked. It doesn't matter if it hurts the team or not. There is no way in hell Croom could ever convince me that Riddell wasn't the best QB that we had at this time last year, and he should have started against LSU, until he got the DUI. But he still should have been able to start against Tulane at the lastest.
Carroll has done nothing, as far as I can tell, to lose the job. He freaking led us to wins over Auburn, UK, Bama, and Ole Miss and UCF in the Liberty Bowl. He is the first starting QB in years to have more TD's than INT's. Then all of a sudden this walk-on comes in from ICC who is a midget like Henig, is inexplicably given four stars, and he's going to share the job? This reeks of favoritism.
I want what's best for MSU, and playing favorites at the QB position is the LAST thing our offense needs. Fact is, we need Carroll out there until Lee proves me wrong, which I doubt I am, so that we can try to score as much as we can.
Carroll has done nothing, as far as I can tell, to lose the job. He freaking led us to wins over Auburn, UK, Bama, and Ole Miss and UCF in the Liberty Bowl. He is the first starting QB in years to have more TD's than INT's. Then all of a sudden this walk-on comes in from ICC who is a midget like Henig, is inexplicably given four stars, and he's going to share the job? This reeks of favoritism.
I want what's best for MSU, and playing favorites at the QB position is the LAST thing our offense needs. Fact is, we need Carroll out there until Lee proves me wrong, which I doubt I am, so that we can try to score as much as we can.
...WC will be out there until he screws it up, which 1) is the way it needs to be and 2) is fairly likely to happen. As far as favorites go, WC was Croom's favorite qb last year, and so I don't think he is going to settle on Lee. He doesn't like to change qb's, so I take this as letting Wes know he is not going to let him go out there and be stagnant or throw 6 picks. In other words, he has more confidence in his backup. As far as Riddell goes, I am pretty sure there was an attitude issue.
...WC will be out there until he screws it up, which 1) is the way it needs to be and 2) is fairly likely to happen. As far as favorites go, WC was Croom's favorite qb last year, and so I don't think he is going to settle on Lee. He doesn't like to change qb's, so I take this as letting Wes know he is not going to let him go out there and be stagnant or throw 6 picks. In other words, he has more confidence in his backup. As far as Riddell goes, I am pretty sure there was an attitude issue.
Carroll should start. Period. I'm a big believer in continuity and having one guy, your "leader" at the QB position. The only time I'd consider it is if you've got a pocket passer and a scrambler. Use the scrambler as a change of pace to give the defense a different look. But in this instance, Carroll and Lee are pretty much the same style of QB. Good passers who are fairly mobile, but neither would be considered a "scrambler" by any stretch. The biggest difference is Carroll is a good bit taller than Lee and has SEC experience. He looked good until the pick aGAINST Bama last year, then proceeded to play like a freshman until the TD drive in the Liberty Bowl. Therefore, with his size and experience advantage, Carroll should be the starter until he gets injured. Maybe give Lee one series early in the first half to get him a little experience, but other than that, he needs to keep his *** on the bench and watch Carroll play.
.......and find a way to [17] things up. We could clone Montana and Favre and use them both, and we'd find a way to [17] things up. We're MSU, and we're cursed with a lousy [17]ing offense for all eternity. So [17] it!
Hallelujah, Amen! here's the Tylenol?</p>
Hallelujah, Amen! here's the Tylenol?</p>
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