Can the current G5 ever become as relevant as the P5…..

[OG Goat Holder]

……from say, 20-25 years ago? Consider this:

- The current P4 continues to rise, adopts its own money model at about 60-65 teams. Becomes a defacto minor league.
- G5 continues to grow with teams coming up from FCS, to about 80 or so themselves.
- G5 creates their own playoff.
- G5 creates their own revenue model that’s more like the previous NCAA model. Less transfers and less revenue (for now).

Say all that happens - along with skyrocketing college costs at the P4, this more alumni of the G5. Could they ever amass a fan following where people actually care if they win a title? Sure, the studs will get picked off by the P4 but I could see some things happening at that level.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

No.

The extended answer: The scenario you’re going into is like European club soccer.

NFL = English Premier League
P4 = English Championship
G5 = League One
FCS = League Two
D2 = National Conference

Ain’t nothin’ gonna matter except the NFL and that means that eventually not many people will care about P4, G5, FCS, and D2.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

No.

The extended answer: The scenario you’re going into is like European club soccer.

NFL = English Premier League
P4 = English Championship
G5 = League One
FCS = League Two
D2 = National Conference

Ain’t nothin’ gonna matter except the NFL and that means that eventually not many people will care about P4, G5, FCS, and D2.

That’s pretty depressing, and a scenario I hadnt thought of, as I don’t watch soccer. I can only speak from experience, but yeah, I’m much more into the NFL than I used to be soooooo

Decade or so ago I was living among a bunch of military folks from all over the country. My Saturday was their Sunday. Guess all things evolve, the South is just behind and doesn’t even know it (again).

 

[pseudonym]

College athletics is done once it becomes the minor leagues.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

……from say, 20-25 years ago? Consider this:

- The current P4 continues to rise, adopts its own money model at about 60-65 teams. Becomes a defacto minor league.
- G5 continues to grow with teams coming up from FCS, to about 80 or so themselves.
- G5 creates their own playoff.
- G5 creates their own revenue model that’s more like the previous NCAA model. Less transfers and less revenue (for now).

Say all that happens - along with skyrocketing college costs at the P4, this more alumni of the G5. Could they ever amass a fan following where people actually care if they win a title? Sure, the studs will get picked off by the P4 but I could see some things happening at that level.

Why the don't break away and form their won league/playoffs is just dumb. A G5 team may make the current P4 playoff, but will likely get blown out every time.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Why the don't break away and form their won league/playoffs is just dumb. A G5 team may make the current P4 playoff, but will likely get blown out every time.

Agree. King Jackie says they should have done it years ago.

 

[Lettuce]

……from say, 20-25 years ago? Consider this:

- The current P4 continues to rise, adopts its own money model at about 60-65 teams. Becomes a defacto minor league.
- G5 continues to grow with teams coming up from FCS, to about 80 or so themselves.
- G5 creates their own playoff.
- G5 creates their own revenue model that’s more like the previous NCAA model. Less transfers and less revenue (for now).

Say all that happens - along with skyrocketing college costs at the P4, this more alumni of the G5. Could they ever amass a fan following where people actually care if they win a title? Sure, the studs will get picked off by the P4 but I could see some things happening at that level.

Yes. I believe this will eventually happen. Not sure it will be equally as popular as the super league but make no mistake, it will be refreshing and if done right, very lucrative.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

 

[Dawgg]

I mean... the FCS has its own playoff today and, while I love it, it's not exactly setting the world on fire from a viewer and fan engagement perspective. I don't see a G5 incarnation doing any better. People may tune in for a Memphis vs Southern Miss first round playoff match, but I don't think that number is going to be much different than a North Dakota State vs Montana State first round playoff match.

Honestly, I think we all have to accept the fact that college football is never going back to what it was, not at any level. Lincoln Financial ain't walking through that door.

 

[L4Dawg]

No.

The extended answer: The scenario you’re going into is like European club soccer.

NFL = English Premier League
P4 = English Championship
G5 = League One
FCS = League Two
D2 = National Conference

Ain’t nothin’ gonna matter except the NFL and that means that eventually not many people will care about P4, G5, FCS, and D2.

THIS.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I mean... the FCS has its own playoff today and, while I love it, it's not exactly setting the world on fire from a viewer and fan engagement perspective. I don't see a G5 incarnation doing any better. People may tune in for a Memphis vs Southern Miss first round playoff match, but I don't think that number is going to be much different than a North Dakota State vs Montana State first round playoff match.

Honestly, I think we all have to accept the fact that college football is never going back to what it was, not at any level. Lincoln Financial ain't walking through that door.

I'm mainly trying to be an idealist and hope we see actual college sports/football again at some point. But I do agree.

That article with Gundy in it just sums up how bad this all sucks. I don't even care about the money. It's that the players are choosing schools based on that, instead of the school and/or the program.

Wish they'd just pay everybody equally from the TV money, outlaw collectives i.e. clamp down on booster pay-for-play, and let them have REAL NIL that is regulated.

 

[patdog]

Nope. The gap is just going to get bigger with NIL and the transfer portal.

 

[HuntDawg]

No. No one will care about a p5 system no more than anyone cares about a d2 playoff.

College sports have changed and its not changing back. Just like the purist that loved watching the wishbone.. it changed.

But College sports or College Basketball and Football.. will still get a following and a huge one. Its not going away and the NIL is going to impact the popularity of it at all. Sure it may run some people away from it.. but there will be plenty of people willing to take their place and throw their fandom/money/support at it..... the fact anyone thinks the NIL is going to be the downfall of college sports is just wrong. It's going to change it, but its not going to make it go away or be less popular

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Nope. The gap is just going to get bigger with NIL and the transfer portal.

I'm not worried about the gap. I mean the gap between college and NFL is huge too.

Really the only way I see this happening, is the gap becomes the P4 with all their pay models and increased rosters, and the G5 that is more like the old system (because the programs simply can't pay for it), with minimal NIL. So that fundamentally makes the P4 like a semi-pro league, with the G5 being actual amateur sports. That's why I compared college and NFL above.....amateur (used to be) vs. pro.

And yeah, yeah, I know college sports hasn't been truly amateur for 50 years but you get what I'm saying.

 

[dorndawg]

No, but they could play their cards right and make it the new version of the old college football so many folks enjoyed and put resources into.

 

[ckDOG]

I think it depends on how many programs decide to participate in whatever the highest level of college football morphs into. If the cost to participate is so high that only 16-24 can realistically attempt to be part of it, I could see there being a competitive and entertaining lower level product made of up the leftovers that don't want or can't afford their payroll costs to be that high. And there would still be interest in watching that. Maybe not on ESPN/ABC, but on something else.

Maybe a southeast geography conference in that would look like us, GA Tech, Vandy, NC State, Va Tech, UK, USCe, TTech, Memphis, Louisville, Okie State, and some others. I would definitely watch and go to games. (Leaving out OM bc they will mortgage everything to not be viewed as a poverty program). Hell, this would be more entertaining to me bc our ceiling is higher in that kind of a setup and the competition/fan support should still be solid. You'd lose some sidewalk support of course.

If the highest level is realistically 40-50+ of the wealthiest programs then lower level football would be pretty ****** and struggle to survive. We'd end up living paycheck to paycheck for as long as possible to avoid being the lower level and get our *** whipped every year in the process until the money dries up and we fade into Bolivian.

 

[maroonmania]

Yes, if they have rich boosters.

 

[patdog]

Maybe a southeast geography conference in that would look like us, GA Tech, Vandy, NC State, Va Tech, UK, USCe, TTech, Memphis, Louisville, Okie State, and some others. I would definitely watch and go to games. (Leaving out OM bc they will mortgage everything to not be viewed as a poverty program). Hell, this would be more entertaining to me bc our ceiling is higher in that kind of a setup and the competition/fan support should still be solid. You'd lose some sidewalk support of course.

This would be the perfect sweet spot for Mississippi State in my opinion. We'd be competitive in our conference. We'd lose a lot of revenue, but everyone else in our conference would be in the same boat. And the revenue would probably be close to what the ACC/Big 12 are getting now, if not a little more. If there is a breakaway and the schools you mention don't make the cut, there's going to be a lot of TV time slots to be filled by 2nd tier schools.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I think it depends on how many programs decide to participate in whatever the highest level of college football morphs into. If the cost to participate is so high that only 16-24 can realistically attempt to be part of it, I could see there being a competitive and entertaining lower level product made of up the leftovers that don't want or can't afford their payroll costs to be that high. And there would still be interest in watching that. Maybe not on ESPN/ABC, but on something else.

Maybe a southeast geography conference in that would look like us, GA Tech, Vandy, NC State, Va Tech, UK, USCe, TTech, Memphis, Louisville, Okie State, and some others. I would definitely watch and go to games. (Leaving out OM bc they will mortgage everything to not be viewed as a poverty program). Hell, this would be more entertaining to me bc our ceiling is higher in that kind of a setup and the competition/fan support should still be solid. You'd lose some sidewalk support of course.

If the highest level is realistically 40-50+ of the wealthiest programs then lower level football would be pretty ****** and struggle to survive. We'd end up living paycheck to paycheck for as long as possible to avoid being the lower level and get our *** whipped every year in the process until the money dries up and we fade into Bolivian.

That cut off line is the key, for sure. The "gap" referenced above. Who wants to pay vs. who wants to play. MSU would also mortgage everything to stay in that group as well.

I think I would be a South Alabama or Tulane fan.

 

[ckDOG]

That cut off line is the key, for sure. The "gap" referenced above. Who wants to pay vs. who wants to play. MSU would also mortgage everything to stay in that group as well.

I think I would be a South Alabama or Tulane fan.

Which would beg the question "should we mortgage everything away to be the doormat of the big league?"

If there's an entertaining lesser league with traditionally respectable programs that either principally won't or financially can't participate in the big league, then I say make the long play and position to be a bigger fish in the smaller pond that we can afford. If the future is "play in the big league or be southern miss", then yeah we have to go all in. Nobody wants that. But you and I still know what inevitably happens in that scenario. We stay a doormat but have to write bigger checks to do it. Yay.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Which would beg the question "should we mortgage everything away to be the doormat of the big league?"

If there's an entertaining lesser league with traditionally respectable programs that either principally won't or financially can't participate in the big league, then I say make the long play and position to be a bigger fish in the smaller pond that we can afford. If the future is "play in the big league or be southern miss", then yeah we have to go all in. Nobody wants that. But you and I still know what inevitably happens in that scenario. We stay a doormat but have to write bigger checks to do it. Yay.

I think most would say we should stay in the P4. I don’t know the answer. But I do think being in the SEC has been our main calling card, well, since we did it. That’s the only thing that separated us from USM in the 80s and 90s and allowed the current separation.

A lot of questions must be answered before we make that kind of step down. Does the G5 start their own playoff? If they do, and we can be assured we will never make the P4 playoff, it might be worth a shot.

 

[Lettuce]

Like I’ve said previously, there’s a reason why the little league World Series is popular. I believe as the NCAA dissolves it will open the door for new amateur sports to become mainstream.

Drop this here….ESPN should start putting more emphasis on HS sports imo. Anyway..

I just believe there’s still a market for a pure form of competition in the amateur circuit. Whether it’s driven by tv or gambling or marketing moguls…I believe a void will be filled.

And this is where the B league will fall. I believe it will become popular due to the nostalgia of the ncaa pre Nick Saban. Also, I could see them entertaining a 32 team playoff or something to set themselves apart from the juggernaut league.

It’s happening. I just hope it’s well thought out and planned in advance…..vs what the NCAA decided to do with the NIL and transfer portal debacles.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Like I’ve said previously, there’s a reason why the little league World Series is popular. I believe as the NCAA dissolves it will open the door for new amateur sports to become mainstream.

Drop this here….ESPN should start putting more emphasis on HS sports imo. Anyway..

I just believe there’s still a market for a pure form of competition in the amateur circuit. Whether it’s driven by tv or gambling or marketing moguls…I believe a void will be filled.

And this is where the B league will fall. I believe it will become popular due to the nostalgia of the ncaa pre Nick Saban. Also, I could see them entertaining a 32 team playoff or something to set themselves apart from the juggernaut league.

It’s happening. I just hope it’s well thought out and planned in advance…..vs what the NCAA decided to do with the NIL and transfer portal debacles.

Nowadays high school is rigged too

 

[Lettuce]

Would I entertain joining a league that doesn’t view my school as a door mat? Why yes.

A winning football team will pack out a stadium…it doesn’t matter what league. And as we all know, everything else trickles down from a winning culture in football.

More students. More money. A better experience, more money. Overall different mindset, more successful, more money.

If staying inside the SEC for financial security is the only positive for MSU’s participation ….regardless of 100 years of losing football (todays money maker) or in exchange for another 100 years of losing football….what is the true benefit of this?

Sure, we have new athletic dorms, facilities and amenities. But what good does that do when we can’t put a product on the field with a chance to win? And I mean compete with peers for trophies…. We arnt a peer….as we are not equal to the opponents in our league.

Id like to see MSU turn the page on the SEC and the Wild West of football….and join a different crop of teams that are more evenly matched.

Football is king. So at least we do have the grounds to house a king. However, we lack a palace. And a king without a palace is
Jester. I’m ok with being a Jester. Along side other Jesters.

TLDR: college football continues to rip at the seams, MSU will undoubtedly have a tough decision to make in regards to its very foundation. Do we continue in the same direction….which has led us to zero credibility in the world of college football….or do we make a bold leap into a brighter future for the student athlete?

If we want to win in football we have to put ourselves into a situation to win. For a long time, maybe forever, we havnt won. So maybe it’s time we put ourselves into a place in which the hard work and investments payoff…..and maybe, we will win.

 

[Dawghouse]

Nowadays high school is rigged too

That's my thing. The courts have set the precedent now. There's no such thing as amateur anymore. If you're making money off of someone you're going to have to cut them in on the profits.

College football is wrecked, they just don't accept it yet.

 

[RopeDawg]

I think G5 will eventually become “College Football”

 

[leeinator]

I think it depends on how many programs decide to participate in whatever the highest level of college football morphs into. If the cost to participate is so high that only 16-24 can realistically attempt to be part of it, I could see there being a competitive and entertaining lower level product made of up the leftovers that don't want or can't afford their payroll costs to be that high. And there would still be interest in watching that. Maybe not on ESPN/ABC, but on something else.

Maybe a southeast geography conference in that would look like us, GA Tech, Vandy, NC State, Va Tech, UK, USCe, TTech, Memphis, Louisville, Okie State, and some others. I would definitely watch and go to games. (Leaving out OM bc they will mortgage everything to not be viewed as a poverty program). Hell, this would be more entertaining to me bc our ceiling is higher in that kind of a setup and the competition/fan support should still be solid. You'd lose some sidewalk support of course.

If the highest level is realistically 40-50+ of the wealthiest programs then lower level football would be pretty ****** and struggle to survive. We'd end up living paycheck to paycheck for as long as possible to avoid being the lower level and get our *** whipped every year in the process until the money dries up and we fade into Bolivian.

I'd watch MSU at a lower level in football. Would prefer to keep baseball and basketball at the D1 level.