Clemson to the SEC is a GOOD thing for Gamecocks football

[18IsTheMan]

As it is right now, we play 8 conference games plus Clemson, so we have 9 P5 games built into our schedule, leaving us 3 games to do something else with. If we're going to a 9-game conference schedule following the addition of Texas and Oklahoma, Clemson becomes our 10th P5 game leaving us only 2 games to schedule more manageable opponents. That would be a very significant crunch on our schedule. However, if they join the SEC they'll become one of our 9 conference games, which they basically already are in that we play them every year, and we'll still have 3 games open to schedule other opponents. In that sense, it's actually quite beneficial for us if they join the SEC. It levels things for us somewhat with other SEC teams who don't have to play a tough OOC opponent every year.

As for the other factors...recruiting, revenue, etc...we haven't seen any practical impact in terms of the rivalry over our 31 years in the conference. With whatever advantages we have for being in the SEC, they have still overall outperformed us. They have won the rivalry game at essentially the same clip before and after we joined the SEC.

 

[Psycock]

Disagree. While it would help with our scheduling the trade-off would be awful. Whether they would admit it or not they would love to be in the SEC(except their schedule would be tough for a change). They would make so much more $$$ and we would lose the one huge recruiting advantage we have by being in the SEC. We cannot help them like that especially when the demise, or further weakening, of the ACC is possible if FSU and perhaps others leave.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Disagree. While it would help with our scheduling the trade-off would be awful. Whether they would admit it or not they would love to be in the SEC(except their schedule would be tough for a change). They would make so much more $$$ and we would lose the one huge recruiting advantage we have by being in the SEC. We cannot help them like that especially when the demise, or further weakening, of the ACC is possible if FSU and perhaps others leave.

Well you completely dismissed the last part of the OP, which is factually correct. The revenue and recruiting factors are drastically and grossly overblown by our fan base. Thus far, whatever revenue or recruiting benefit we have received from the SEC, it has made 0% impact on our rivalry with Clemson. Even so, whatever benefit they receive from revenue and recruiting, it would be more than offset by the fact that they would take multiple losses in the SEC each season. There just aren't any facts to support the revenue and recruiting argument. It's all assumption.

Our fans gripe year in and year out that Clemson gets an easy path to the playoffs. Join the SEC and that path vaporizes. Our fans also bemoan every year how our schedule is instantly tougher ever year b/c we have to play a full SEC slate PLUS Clemson. If they join the SEC, that disadvantage vaporizes as well.

It really levels the field for us in so many ways.

 

[SSIGamecock]

Well you completely dismissed the last part of the OP, which is factually correct. The revenue and recruiting factors are drastically and grossly overblown by our fan base. Thus far, whatever revenue or recruiting benefit we have received from the SEC, it has made 0% impact on our rivalry with Clemson. Even so, whatever benefit they receive from revenue and recruiting, it would be more than offset by the fact that they would take multiple losses in the SEC each season.

Our fans gripe year in and year out that Clemson gets an easy path to the playoffs. Join the SEC and that path vaporizes.

It really levels the field for us in so many ways.

Disagree. While it would help with our scheduling the trade-off would be awful. Whether they would admit it or not they would love to be in the SEC(except their schedule would be tough for a change). They would make so much more $$$ and we would lose the one huge recruiting advantage we have by being in the SEC. We cannot help them like that especially when the demise, or further weakening, of the ACC is possible if FSU and perhaps others leave.

Clempson already has recruited on a top 15 level or better for 10+ years straight. The additional money from the SEC isn't going to benefit them that much. In fact, being in the SEC hurts them because they lose the recruiting pitch of "you come here, you'll have multiple conference champion rings, and a chance every year for the CFP." If they're in the SEC, they lose that cake walk. If Clempson was in the SEC the last 2 years, national pundits would have them ranked 15-30. They lost 3 regular season games in 2021, if in the SEC they lose at least 1 more (8-4). In 2022 they lost 2 and nearly lost 2 more (Wake and Syracuse). In the SEC best case scenario would have been 9-3 probably 8-4, maybe worse.

Yeah, they gain "play in the SEC," but we don't lose that. That piece could help with some for guys who really like the smell of cow sh*t, but it isn't like the guys they currently recruit aren't getting SEC offers from us, UGA, Tenn, Florida, Bama, Auburn, or A&M.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Clempson already has recruited on a top 15 level or better for 10+ years straight. The additional money from the SEC isn't going to benefit them that much. In fact, being in the SEC hurts them because they lose the recruiting pitch of "you come here, you'll have multiple conference champion rings, and a chance every year for the CFP." If they're in the SEC, they lose that cake walk. If Clempson was in the SEC the last 2 years, national pundits would have them ranked 15-30. They lost 3 regular season games in 2021, if in the SEC they lose at least 1 more (8-4). In 2022 they lost 2 and nearly lost 2 more (Wake and Syracuse). In the SEC best case scenario would have been 9-3 probably 8-4, maybe worse.

Yeah, they gain "play in the SEC," but we don't lose that. That piece could help with some for guys who really like the smell of cow sh*t, but it isn't like the guys they currently recruit aren't getting SEC offers from us, UGA, Tenn, Florida, Bama, Auburn, or A&M.

Right. So many perceived advantages are offset.

Yes, they gain the "come play in the SEC" recruiting chip (but even that's getting diluted out as more teams join) but they lose the "come play for an easy path to the CFP" recruiting chip. So I'd say recruiting-wise, it's a wash.

And, you're right, we lose nothing by them joining. On the other hand, we do lose if they don't join. We lose that 3rd game, which is significant.

 

[Lurker123]

Right. So many perceived advantages are offset.

Yes, they gain the "come play in the SEC" recruiting chip (but even that's getting diluted out as more teams join) but they lose the "come play for an easy path to the CFP" recruiting chip. So I'd say recruiting-wise, it's a wash.

And, you're right, we lose nothing by them joining. On the other hand, we do lose if they don't join. We lose that 3rd game, which is significant.

I tend to agree. Trade the "multiple conference titles and consistent cfp appearances" sales pitch for "play in the sec" sales pitch, and I'm not sure they're recruiting will change much.

The bigger impact, imo, would be losing 3 or 4 games a year.

I am almost at the point of wanting them in the sec, because I worry the alternative is them in B10, where they would have lots of money, and a lot lower level of competition than the SEC.

 

[lexgamecock]

I think clemson and fsu will join especially with the 12 team playoff. They can make the playoffs even with 2 maybe 3 losses which they will have playing SEC competition.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I am almost at the point of wanting them in the sec, because I worry the alternative is them in B10, where they would have lots of money, and a lot lower level of competition than the SEC.

Right. I would think this is something for which our AD would actually be advocating.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I think clemson and fsu will join especially with the 12 team playoff. They can make the playoffs even with 2 maybe 3 losses which they will have playing SEC competition.

True. For sure, Clemson in the ACC is an absolute lock for the 12-team playoff. Might as well write them in ink every season. Shoot, they would have had a first-round bye this previous season if the 12-team format was in place. In the SEC, they still potentially make it most years if they keep up their current level of play, but it's far from a lock.

 

[gamecock stock]

Maybe someone has mentioned this above (have not read beyond the starting comment). Clemson has a significant advantage, as is, because they play in a basketball-first conference. So, they have an easy path to the playoffs. THAT, in turn, is a great selling point to recruits. Join the SEC, and suddenly, that advantage goes out the window.

So, it would not bother me one bit if they joined. It would be to our benefit, to their detriment (other than the extra revenue) if they did join. Now, will it happen? If history is any indication (conference expansion focusing on expanding market enlargement), it won't happen. But, I know little and claim less.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Maybe someone has mentioned this above (have not read beyond the starting comment). Clemson has a significant advantage, as is, because they play in a basketball-first conference. So, they have an easy path to the playoffs. THAT, in turn, is a great selling point to recruits. Join the SEC, and suddenly, that advantage goes out the window.

So, it would not bother me one bit if they joined. It would be to our benefit, to their detriment (other than the extra revenue) if they did join. Now, will it happen? If history is any indication (conference expansion focusing on expanding market enlargement), it won't happen. But, I know little and claim less.

Yep, has been pointed out, but definitely worth repeating.

 

[Dod Rangerfield]

NO.

 

[athenscock3]

Geez. Again DOD we are in agreement. No way should clemson be admitted to the SEC. They wanted the ACC and they got it. Let them keep working to beat N. C. in basketball. Unfortunately they are getting closer not because they are better in bb but because N. C. has slipped down the slippery slope.

 

[92Pony]

If they and their fans want it, I'm against it.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Geez. Again DOD we are in agreement. No way should clemson be admitted to the SEC. They wanted the ACC and they got it. Let them keep working to beat N. C. in basketball. Unfortunately they are getting closer not because they are better in bb but because N. C. has slipped down the slippery slope.

If they and their fans want it, I'm against it.

Psychology aside, I'm for anything that makes things tougher on them and easier on us.

 

[Spinal Tap]

I don't know if it's psychological or not, but emotions can run deep. If the ACC collapses and CU gets invited to the SEC there will be folks
having to deal with the ickiness of sharing our conference house with our heated rival living in one of the bedrooms. It's counter to fan's thinking
of both schools I'd think.

It'll all be about dollars if it comes to pass anyway. No one can walk away if the deal is right. I'd just resign myself to it and accept the reality.

 

[gamecock stock]

I stand by what I said above. That being said, I can understand the sentiments of DOD, athenscock and 82Pony above. Clemson fans are sweating it all out. If you don't realize they are worried over this issue, then you are not being attentive. And, I, for one, am thoroughly enjoying watching them sweat.

 

[CockofEarle]

As it is right now, we play 8 conference games plus Clemson, so we have 9 P5 games built into our schedule, leaving us 3 games to do something else with. If we're going to a 9-game conference schedule following the addition of Texas and Oklahoma, Clemson becomes our 10th P5 game leaving us only 2 games to schedule more manageable opponents. That would be a very significant crunch on our schedule. However, if they join the SEC they'll become one of our 9 conference games, which they basically already are in that we play them every year, and we'll still have 3 games open to schedule other opponents. In that sense, it's actually quite beneficial for us if they join the SEC. It levels things for us somewhat with other SEC teams who don't have to play a tough OOC opponent every year.

As for the other factors...recruiting, revenue, etc...we haven't seen any practical impact in terms of the rivalry over our 31 years in the conference. With whatever advantages we have for being in the SEC, they have still overall outperformed us. They have won the rivalry game at essentially the same clip before and after we joined the SEC.

Don’t hold your breath.

 

[Legal Cock]

Hell naw.

 

[Lakemurraycock]

They have been offsetting the revenue gap by spending a larger percentage on football than most schools. Giving Clemson the revenue and prestige of being in the SEC is not good for us or the SEC. They don't bring enough additional revenue to offset the distribution. The ACC grant of rights is also a huge factor. Clemson (and all ACC Schools) gave the broadcasting rights to the ACC even if they leave the conference until 2037. They are already starting to feel a level playing field with NIL. The past success they had is not guaranteed for the future.

 

[Forkcock]

Screw Clemson.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Screw Clemson.

Best way to do that is to get them into the SEC.

 

[92Pony]

Best way to do that is to get them into the SEC.

I still disagree. They've built a brand, and have garnered hardware. About the only thing we have over them ATM is the prestige of being in the SEC and the draw for recruiting that brings. Allow them in, and their recruiting gets even better - they get more blue-chips, and climb the SEC ladder, stepping on our faces as they go past. Now, hopefully CSB is able to keep that from happening, but even with their hard work and persistence, I'd say the odds of that occurring are still about 50/50. In the last 10yrs, cu has proven they can beat Bama, LSU, Georgia..... I think it a little naïve to believe they'd come in to the SEC and fall on their faces.

 

[Patriot321]

Psychology aside, I'm for anything that makes things tougher on them and easier on us.

The continued expansion of the SEC with big-name, big money teams makes it tougher on us period, and I think adding Clemson would make it even tougher.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I still disagree. They've built a brand, and have garnered hardware. About the only thing we have over them ATM is the prestige of being in the SEC and the draw for recruiting that brings. Allow them in, and their recruiting gets even better - they get more blue-chips, and climb the SEC ladder, stepping on our faces as they go past. Now, hopefully CSB is able to keep that from happening, but even with their hard work and persistence, I'd say the odds of that occurring are still about 50/50. In the last 10yrs, cu has proven they can beat Bama, LSU, Georgia..... I think it a little naïve to believe they'd come in to the SEC and fall on their faces.

It's already been noted above, though, that whatever recruiting gains they get from joining the SEC would be more than offset by the recruiting hit they take by not being able to promise an easy path to the CFP most years. At the worst, it's a wash as far as recruiting is concerned. Most likely, they would continue to recruit at about the same level they have been.

And, as more and more teams join the SEC, the "prestige" of being an SEC team is getting watered down anyway.

 

[18IsTheMan]

The continued expansion of the SEC with big-name, big money teams makes it tougher on us period, and I think adding Clemson would make it even tougher.

But expansion with the exclusion of Clemson is the toughest scenario for us for the reason mentioned in the OP. Having 9 SEC games PLUS Clemson is brutal. Make Clemson an SEC game and we still have 3 games to play with.

The landscape of the game is just changing to the point that it really is in our best interest for them to join. I know the old "keep them out at all costs" mindset is still prevalent, and that's how I used to feel, but going to 9 conference games changed all the math.

 

[Lurker123]

But expansion with the exclusion of Clemson is the toughest scenario for us for the reason mentioned in the OP. Having 9 SEC games PLUS Clemson is brutal. Make Clemson an SEC game and we still have 3 games to play with.

The landscape of the game is just changing to the point that it really is in our best interest for them to join. I know the old "keep them out at all costs" mindset is still prevalent, and that's how I used to feel, but going to 9 conference games changed all the math.

Agreed, 9 conference games plus clemson is an even uglier schedule than we're used to.

I think a 9 conference game schedule may bring about the end of our series with clemson if they aren't brought into the SEC.

 

[gamecock stock]

Too many Gamecock fans are over-the-top with worry. If Beamer's recruiting continues to improve (seems to have gotten better each year under him and right now we are 7th in the nation), we will more than hold our own. Dare I say that Beamer has overachieved on the field in each of his 2 seasons here.....or at least we can agree he has done better than expected. I know that there are still some doubts about Beamer among some. But I say chill. If he made the right choice in Loggains, and that, admittingly, is a BIG IF, the program could really take off this season. What we have seemed to lack in the past is a coach who could do both recruiting and game day coaching equally well. We might just finally have gotten the right guy....a leader... at the right time.

 

[will110]

I disagree...my hope is that clemson withers on the vine in the dying ACC, held tight by the ill-conceived grant of rights. Clemson moving to the ACC gives them a get out of jail free card.

 

[BetaLiberalCock1]

Clemson moving to the SEC is a flat and firm "NO" from me.

To be fair as a CFB fan though - at the time - I would have rather had Clemson and FSU join over Mizzou and A&M

 

[accock]

As it is right now, we play 8 conference games plus Clemson, so we have 9 P5 games built into our schedule, leaving us 3 games to do something else with. If we're going to a 9-game conference schedule following the addition of Texas and Oklahoma, Clemson becomes our 10th P5 game leaving us only 2 games to schedule more manageable opponents. That would be a very significant crunch on our schedule. However, if they join the SEC they'll become one of our 9 conference games, which they basically already are in that we play them every year, and we'll still have 3 games open to schedule other opponents. In that sense, it's actually quite beneficial for us if they join the SEC. It levels things for us somewhat with other SEC teams who don't have to play a tough OOC opponent every year.

As for the other factors...recruiting, revenue, etc...we haven't seen any practical impact in terms of the rivalry over our 31 years in the conference. With whatever advantages we have for being in the SEC, they have still overall outperformed us. They have won the rivalry game at essentially the same clip before and after we joined the SEC.

 

[18IsTheMan]

lol, so our fan base breaks down into 3 categories on this issue:

1. Those who reflexively say "no" but for no apparent reason

2. Those who reflexively say "no" because they have been conditioned to erroneously believe that Clemson gains a recruiting advantage by joining the SEC

3. Those who say "yes" because they realize Clemson's greatest advantage is being in the ACC and that them joining the SEC takes away that advantage and tremendously levels the playing for us

 

[gamecock stock]

I believe I have related this before. My first contact with clemson fans was when I was in Grad school living on campus. Clemson grads going to USC law school were also on my floor. Before that experience, I considered clemson fans more of a nuisance. After that, I began to loathe them. Consequently, I understand the sentiment regarding them.

 

[SSIGamecock]

lol, so our fan base breaks down into 3 categories on this issue:

1. Those who reflexively say "no" but for no apparent reason

2. Those who reflexively say "no" because they have been conditioned to erroneously believe that Clemson gains a recruiting advantage by joining the SEC

3. Those who say "yes" because they realize Clemson's greatest advantage is being in the ACC and that them joining the SEC takes away that advantage and tremendously levels the playing for us

Those that fall into category 2 are the one's who pull for UGA in the playoff because they represent the "SEC" not realizing that we battle them yearly for big time recruits. They justify it with "SEC will receive money and split among the 14 schools," not realizing that each CFP team gets $6MM and nothing additional for going to the Champ game or winning for that matter. They also will say that the SEC loses some of its prestige if a team from SEC doesn't win the national championship as an excuse as well. The prestige isn't going anywhere in the next 5 years, regardless of outcome. It's loser mentality to pull for teams that directly affect your winning solely because they are in the conference. What a concept lol

 

[Yemacock]

Well you completely dismissed the last part of the OP, which is factually correct. The revenue and recruiting factors are drastically and grossly overblown by our fan base. Thus far, whatever revenue or recruiting benefit we have received from the SEC, it has made 0% impact on our rivalry with Clemson. Even so, whatever benefit they receive from revenue and recruiting, it would be more than offset by the fact that they would take multiple losses in the SEC each season. There just aren't any facts to support the revenue and recruiting argument. It's all assumption.

Our fans gripe year in and year out that Clemson gets an easy path to the playoffs. Join the SEC and that path vaporizes. Our fans also bemoan every year how our schedule is instantly tougher ever year b/c we have to play a full SEC slate PLUS Clemson. If they join the SEC, that disadvantage vaporizes as well.

It really levels the field for us in so many ways.

Clemson has historically had a better football team than USC. I don't know all the reasons and don't care anymore. If they are allowed into the SEC, it will definitely HURT our recruiting against them. I cannot see any benefit whatsoever. Let them rot in the ACC leftovers. I hate them but I hate Dabo more.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I cannot see any benefit whatsoever.

No problem, that's why I'm here. Let me help you see.

1. As it is, Clemson gets to sell recruits on a relatively clear path the CFP most seasons. That is a HUGE recruiting chip they'll always have as long as they're in the ACC and one we'll never have. If they join the SEC, that massive recruiting advantage vanishes. (FYI: under the 12-team CFP format, Clemson would have been a top-4 seed and had a first round bye this season. If they stay in the SEC, we'll be recruiting against that...every....single....year).

2. Clemson would probably be a 2 or 3 loss team a lot of seasons in the SEC. Odds are they would still be good, but not the dominant force they are in the ACC. That knocks off a lot of their recruiting luster.

3. As noted above in the OP which you didn't read, it would be a MASSIVE, MASSIVE scheduling benefit to us once the SEC moves to a 9-game conference format. It is going to be nearly crippling to have to play 9 conference games PLUS Clemson every season (this is the point none of the "no" people want to address). This point cannot be overstated, but I'll try because folks don't seem to comprehend it, though it is relatively simple and self-evident.

4. Per point #3, the current arrangement puts us at a distinctive disadvantage to our SEC peers and to Clemson.

 

[Gradstudent]

on would probably be a 2 or 3 loss team a lot of seasons

And probably more then a 3 loss team some seasons with injuries and such. Outside of Alabama and Georgia, most SEC teams cycle in and out, Clemson would be no different. Recruiting would not be hurt like most say, we can recruit just fine against Clemson program that is 8-4 most years.

I still recall the NIL arguments and not the one about is it good or not for college football.

But the argument about the NIL if it would it hurt Clemson and help us, I remember certain posters arguing how Clemson would not be affected negatively by NIL LOL, I think that stance was proven incorrect.

Clemson would be affected negatively in wins and losses by joining the SEC, and it would be funny to see them have a losing season again which would happen to them in the SEC.

 

[18IsTheMan]

And probably more then a 3 loss team some seasons with injuries and such. Outside of Alabama and Georgia, most SEC teams cycle in and out, Clemson would be no different. Recruiting would not be hurt like most say, we can recruit just fine against Clemson program that is 8-4 most years.

Yes. We've been in the SEC for 30 years now. How has our recruiting against Clemson fared over that time span with us having the SEC recruiting chip advantage? I can't help but think this reasoning is much overblown.

 

[Yemacock]

No problem, that's why I'm here. Let me help you see.

1. As it is, Clemson gets to sell recruits on a relatively clear path the CFP most seasons. That is a HUGE recruiting chip they'll always have as long as they're in the ACC and one we'll never have. If they join the SEC, that massive recruiting advantage vanishes. (FYI: under the 12-team CFP format, Clemson would have been a top-4 seed and had a first round bye this season. If they stay in the SEC, we'll be recruiting against that...every....single....year).

2. Clemson would probably be a 2 or 3 loss team a lot of seasons in the SEC. Odds are they would still be good, but not the dominant force they are in the ACC. That knocks off a lot of their recruiting luster.

3. As noted above in the OP which you didn't read, it would be a MASSIVE, MASSIVE scheduling benefit to us once the SEC moves to a 9-game conference format. It is going to be nearly crippling to have to play 9 conference games PLUS Clemson every season (this is the point none of the "no" people want to address). This point cannot be overstated, but I'll try because folks don't seem to comprehend it, though it is relatively simple and self-evident.

4. Per point #3, the current arrangement puts us at a distinctive disadvantage to our SEC peers and to Clemson.

Maybe I don't read between the lines like that. I have not heard another member of this forum agreeing with that. If you have, please let me know.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Maybe I don't read between the lines like that. I have not heard another member of this forum agreeing with that. If you have, please let me know.

Numerous ones have agreed already if were to read above.

And, lol, and how is not "reading between the lines" to say that letting them in the SEC would hurt our recruiting against them. There is simply no support for this argument.