Coach = Greg Doyel
- Thread starter MagnificentBastard
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"UNC and UCLA in the most decorated championship game of all time. Think about it. These are the two best programs in college history. Kentucky's a close third. But still third."
So, I wouldn't really put a lot of stock into what he says.
So, I wouldn't really put a lot of stock into what he says.
To people who get off on UCLA and UNC worship perhaps. I have nothing against either school, but aside from possibly being a great basketball game I don't see what the big deal would be with a UNC/UCLA matchup. So they each have a lot of banners hanging, I don't think those banners are going to face off against each other.</p>
VegasDawg13 said:
What is ignorant about that statement? The only others who deserve even an inkling of a mention are Kansas and Duke.
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So, you agree that UK, the all time winningest program both in # of victories and winning % along with 7 NCs (2nd only to UCLA) is third? UNC should be third at best to UCLA & UK. An argument could probably be made either way for whether UCLA or UK is #1 overall, but UNC definitely should not be second. Kansas, UNC & Duke are inter-changeable at 3, 4, & 5 in my opinion and all three trail UCLA & UK significantly.
For a guy that can't coach, Stans sure does seem to win a lot.
For a guy that can't coach, Stans sure does seem to win a lot without NBA talent.
I just don't get it, sure he ain't perfect, but no coach is. Look at Donovan, he threw a hissy fit because he didnt have three lottery picks on his damn team. Gillepsie lost to Millsaps type teams this year twice at home.
I just hope the people that ***** and moan about coaches cause Stans to leave, because I think he is a solid coach and would love to see him leave MSU.
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For a guy that can't coach, Stans sure does seem to win a lot without NBA talent.
I just don't get it, sure he ain't perfect, but no coach is. Look at Donovan, he threw a hissy fit because he didnt have three lottery picks on his damn team. Gillepsie lost to Millsaps type teams this year twice at home.
I just hope the people that ***** and moan about coaches cause Stans to leave, because I think he is a solid coach and would love to see him leave MSU.
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He just wants Stans to leave, he doesn't care what makes him go. Most Ole Miss fans would probably be fine if Stans left due to the success that he has had at MSU.
DawgatAuburn said:
</p>My point was that Kentucky and UCLA are a clear 1 and 2. You could argue which should be which. UNC is then a clear 3. Kansas only has 2 national champioships. I don't think they belong with those top 3, and I think Duke has passed them by as well. So, I'd go:
UCLA
Kentucky
UNC
Duke
Kansas
I get sick of the NBA argument...you dont have to have NBA talent to win in college basketball. Theres not a team in the SEC that wouldnt have wanted a Darryl Wilson (the best shooter MSU has ever had, and I know he was under Williams, just using him as a point), Austin, LR, Bowers, Zimmerman and others we have had playing for them.
We havent had that 6'5 shooter or one on one guy the NBA loves. Doesnt mean we havent had very good college players. Hell, one of the best shooters in college basketball history, JJ Reddick is averaging 3 points a game in the NBA on 8 minutes a game.</p>
We havent had that 6'5 shooter or one on one guy the NBA loves. Doesnt mean we havent had very good college players. Hell, one of the best shooters in college basketball history, JJ Reddick is averaging 3 points a game in the NBA on 8 minutes a game.</p>
Coach34 said:
</p>Excellent point Coach..
A Great College Player does not have to equal an NBA player...
and maybe you have some sort of logical link, but I can't see how playing Texas in Dallas (terrible draw when we are the 3 & they are the 6 seed) or losing to a Xavier team that was white hot has absolutely anything to do with not having future NBA players on the MSU team. How does not having NBA players equate to getting bad draws or having the bad luck of facing a white hot team?</p>
Frankly, I have not seen a whole bunch of people on SPS make the argument that we needed future NBA players to have success. In fact, most here understand that Stans has been quite successful with basically no future NBA stars. He has done pretty well at bringing in really good college players, but has struggled so far making a real run in March.</p>
Frankly, I have not seen a whole bunch of people on SPS make the argument that we needed future NBA players to have success. In fact, most here understand that Stans has been quite successful with basically no future NBA stars. He has done pretty well at bringing in really good college players, but has struggled so far making a real run in March.</p>
at last year's Final Four teams. Florida had 3 of the top 9 selections in the draft. Ohio State had 2 of the top 4 selections. Georgetown has a top 5 guy, and another guy who will be a high pick this year. UCLA only lost one starter, and that's Arron Afflalo, and guess what? He plays for the Pistons.
We've already shown what Florida had in 2006 when they won it. They got lucky to hold that team together. In 2005, it was UNC that won. Hey look at that, 4 of the top 14 selections in the draft. Illinois finished 2nd that year, all 5 starters were eventually drafted, 2 in the first round, 3 still in the league.
In 2004, UConn won it. Two of the top 3 selections in the draft, and a top 10 pick the next year. Each Final Four team that year had a first round selection either that year or the next.
In 2003, Syracuse won behind Carmelo Anthony, the third pick Each Final Four team that year had a lottery pick.
In 2002, it was Maryland. 2 picks in the first 17. Kansas made that Final Four with 1 lottery pick that draft, and 2 the next year.
I don't really feel like going back any further, but I really need more clarification from you as to how you don't need NBA talent to win in college basketball. Because I'm not seeing a lot of national champions made up of the Timmy Bowers and Branden Vincents of the world.
We've already shown what Florida had in 2006 when they won it. They got lucky to hold that team together. In 2005, it was UNC that won. Hey look at that, 4 of the top 14 selections in the draft. Illinois finished 2nd that year, all 5 starters were eventually drafted, 2 in the first round, 3 still in the league.
In 2004, UConn won it. Two of the top 3 selections in the draft, and a top 10 pick the next year. Each Final Four team that year had a first round selection either that year or the next.
In 2003, Syracuse won behind Carmelo Anthony, the third pick Each Final Four team that year had a lottery pick.
In 2002, it was Maryland. 2 picks in the first 17. Kansas made that Final Four with 1 lottery pick that draft, and 2 the next year.
I don't really feel like going back any further, but I really need more clarification from you as to how you don't need NBA talent to win in college basketball. Because I'm not seeing a lot of national champions made up of the Timmy Bowers and Branden Vincents of the world.
"but I can't see how playing Texas in Dallas (terrible draw when we are the 3 & they are the 6 seed)"
While they had a crowd advantage, it wasnt like we were playing in Austin either. It was a different gym for them too.
"losing to a Xavier team that was white hot"
its called defending their *** and not getting blown out. Not to mention we had beaten them earlier in the season
Its always something, always an excuse for Ricky underachieving. He got out-coached against Butler. He got out-coached against Duke (that one is excusable, but damn, who the <17> plays zone against Duke?)
Its been said time and again he's excused from making a tourney run because he doesnt have NBA players. That cant even be disputed. Yet George Mason can make a FF. I just hope we arent hearing Oregon excuses come Saturday
While they had a crowd advantage, it wasnt like we were playing in Austin either. It was a different gym for them too.
"losing to a Xavier team that was white hot"
its called defending their *** and not getting blown out. Not to mention we had beaten them earlier in the season
Its always something, always an excuse for Ricky underachieving. He got out-coached against Butler. He got out-coached against Duke (that one is excusable, but damn, who the <17> plays zone against Duke?)
Its been said time and again he's excused from making a tourney run because he doesnt have NBA players. That cant even be disputed. Yet George Mason can make a FF. I just hope we arent hearing Oregon excuses come Saturday
I'll be the first to admit Stans gets out-coached on occasion. However, you rarely seem to acknowledge (at least I don't recall any times) that MSU loses some games based on things other than coaching. Sometimes teams get hot, sometimes the location does make a difference, basically...**** happens. Maybe a top tier coach would know how to adapt on the fly and, while struggling, still beat some of these hot teams that in reality, have inferior talent.
Unless I've missed it, you blame most losses strictly on Stans...regardless of the other circumstances. ****, I would think Georgia's ***-whipping of "The Thriver" and his "Merry Band of Idiots" would have shown you otherwise. Guess not.
Unless I've missed it, you blame most losses strictly on Stans...regardless of the other circumstances. ****, I would think Georgia's ***-whipping of "The Thriver" and his "Merry Band of Idiots" would have shown you otherwise. Guess not.
George Mason had the same number of lottery picks on their FF run, as they did when MSU beat their *** earlier in the season. That, in of itself, should show that teams who get white hot at the right time, can make a run deep into the tourny. The coach can flip a switch and turn his team on & off like that?
a team without a dearth of NBA talent makes a Final Four appearance for once in the tournament's history, and somehow that proves something.</p>
I guess when you say a lot of teams without draft picks, you mean 3, because that's how many non-traditional powers I see in last year's sweet Sixteen, Butler (hey look at that, maybe they're pretty good after all!), UNLV, and Southern Illinois. 2006 will be a bit unusual, with 5 non traditional powers making it. One, Washington, had a lottery pick (Brandon Roy). West Virginia was making their second straight round of 16 as a low seed. They get in pretty regularly these days. I guess you could say LSU would make 6 as they aren't a traditional power, but they did have two NBA players on the team as well. They don't really help your argument.</p>
2005 only has one true Cinderella team, Wisconsin-Milwaukee. Who's their coach and where is he now? I'll flat out grant you Pearl is a better coach than Stansbury. But nobody else that year makes you look twice.
2004, you get two teams, Nevada and UAB. Nevada had two eventual first rounders in the starting lineup, so we can scratch them.
2003, you have two teams, Butler and Auburn of all teams.
2002, you get Southern Illinois and Kent State. So basically, except for 2005, you get on average 2 teams a year that don't have at least one NBA first round draft choice in the Sweet Sixteen. By the way, notice our last Sweet Sixteen came when we had two first round choices on our team. </p>
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I guess when you say a lot of teams without draft picks, you mean 3, because that's how many non-traditional powers I see in last year's sweet Sixteen, Butler (hey look at that, maybe they're pretty good after all!), UNLV, and Southern Illinois. 2006 will be a bit unusual, with 5 non traditional powers making it. One, Washington, had a lottery pick (Brandon Roy). West Virginia was making their second straight round of 16 as a low seed. They get in pretty regularly these days. I guess you could say LSU would make 6 as they aren't a traditional power, but they did have two NBA players on the team as well. They don't really help your argument.</p>
2005 only has one true Cinderella team, Wisconsin-Milwaukee. Who's their coach and where is he now? I'll flat out grant you Pearl is a better coach than Stansbury. But nobody else that year makes you look twice.
2004, you get two teams, Nevada and UAB. Nevada had two eventual first rounders in the starting lineup, so we can scratch them.
2003, you have two teams, Butler and Auburn of all teams.
2002, you get Southern Illinois and Kent State. So basically, except for 2005, you get on average 2 teams a year that don't have at least one NBA first round draft choice in the Sweet Sixteen. By the way, notice our last Sweet Sixteen came when we had two first round choices on our team. </p>
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<span style="font-weight: bold;">While they had a crowd advantage, it wasnt like we were playing in Austin either. It was a different gym for them too.
</span>Exactly right. A bigger arena allowed them to have an even greater advantage, because they got more of their fans in.
Stansbury has improved over the years as a floor coach, even though he still has the occasional WTF game like Saturday. His biggest weakness has been overall program management. You can't lose a starter and a sixth man/starter and expect to be a top 4 seed. And I worry that he'll lose more this year. I can deal with his "floor coaching," because he preaches defense and rebounding, and that is going to win a lot of games, but he's got to keep guys from leaving and get some stability.
And this weakness has flared up since the Frazier/Bowers era, which leads me to believe it has more to do with current personnel than the coach, since we went through a very prosperous, stable period with Bowers, Frazier, Roberts, etc. My guess is that once Gordon leaves, this will work itself out.
</span>Exactly right. A bigger arena allowed them to have an even greater advantage, because they got more of their fans in.
Stansbury has improved over the years as a floor coach, even though he still has the occasional WTF game like Saturday. His biggest weakness has been overall program management. You can't lose a starter and a sixth man/starter and expect to be a top 4 seed. And I worry that he'll lose more this year. I can deal with his "floor coaching," because he preaches defense and rebounding, and that is going to win a lot of games, but he's got to keep guys from leaving and get some stability.
And this weakness has flared up since the Frazier/Bowers era, which leads me to believe it has more to do with current personnel than the coach, since we went through a very prosperous, stable period with Bowers, Frazier, Roberts, etc. My guess is that once Gordon leaves, this will work itself out.
if there were a 20,000 seat arena in Jackson, and we played an NCAA tourney game there, are you saying there would be fewer State fans at that game than if it were played at the Hump?
Oh and yet aGAIN, Texas had a lottery pick on that team, TJ Ford, along with current NBA player Royal Ivey and former NBA player James Thomas who played two seasons in the league, which is two more than anyone on that MSU team played, so you have shown another example of the team with the NBA talent beating the team without the NBA talent.
Oh and yet aGAIN, Texas had a lottery pick on that team, TJ Ford, along with current NBA player Royal Ivey and former NBA player James Thomas who played two seasons in the league, which is two more than anyone on that MSU team played, so you have shown another example of the team with the NBA talent beating the team without the NBA talent.
If we were a 6 seed and Texas was a 3 seed and we played Texas in Birmingham or Memphis, do you think UT fans would be complaining?
Answer: Hell yes.
Answer: Hell yes.
HD6 said:
And while you are at it add fishwater99 to the list. Those 2 have turned into the village idiots of this board
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HD6 said:
</p>in 96 when MSU went to the Final Four we had a 1st round (possible lottery, but I don't remember) pick in Dampier, and also Dontae Jones was a 2nd round pick too I think. So the last, and only, run we made into the Final Four WE had NBA talent on our team.
Just a thought. I doubt it will help coach see anything..
Continually calling Stansbury juvenile names. Harping on coaching ability. Raising the praise of anyone who doesn't coach at MSU. Smashing Croom for offensive ineptness. There may be some strong points to support these arguments but no one would do this on a continual basis unless they were just trying to get a rise out of the board in general or just have nothing better to do but stir the **** pot. I tend to think that Coach is a semi-intelligent person who just loves jerking on chains that will cause the most howling.
As Woof Man Jack said, it proves that sometimes teams get hot at the right time and thus go on a run through the NCAA Tournament. Another case there - 2004 Xavier. We beat them in the OOC portion of that season. Then, all of the sudden they caught fire, roared through the A-10 Tournament beating previously undefeated and eventual Elite 8 team St. Joe's, and then beat Louisville, us, and Texas before finally falling to Duke in the Regional Final. Surely the idea of a team getting hot at the right time isn't totally lost on Peaches, surely he's either being stubborn or just stirring the pot.
You can't possibly be stupid enough to believe this. Starkville is around 7 hours from Dallas. Jackson is 5 hours. Austin is 3 hours from Dallas and has a population of about 1.5 million. DFW area has approximately 6 million people. Texas has 10 times the number of sidewalk alums that Bama has. The math here simply isn't hard to figure out.
You are so right, if we had just tried to play defense, we would have won. Also, I was really surprised that they just didn't forfeit the game to us since we had beaten them earlier that year.
Call it what you want. If Arkansas or LSU with Brady or Bama with Gottfried were in similar situations, you would find "reasons" to excuse their loss. Of the four situations discussed (Texas, Xavier, Butler, & Duke), Butler is the only one without reasonable excuse. We should have beaten Butler. Period.
JR did the same exact thing, just saying stupid stuff to get the board up in arms. The only difference is Peaches can make some good points when discussing non-MSU matters.
Let's look at All SEC Players Stans has had.(per our Media Guide)
<font face="Avenir-Light" size="1"><font size="3">1998-99: Tyrone Washington (2nd AP,3rd Coaches)
1999-00: Robert Jackson (3rd Coaches)
2001-02: Mario Austin (2nd AP & Coaches)Derrick Zimmerman (3rd AP)
2002-03: Mario Austin (1st AP & Coaches)Timmy Bowers (3rd AP)Derrick Zimmerman (3rd AP)
2003-04: Timmy Bowers (1st AP & Coaches)Lawrence Roberts (1st AP & Coaches)
2004-05: Lawrence Roberts (1st AP & Coaches)Shane Power (2nd Coaches)
2005-06: Charles Rhodes (2nd AP & Coaches)
2006-07: Jamont Gordon (1st Coaches & 2nd AP)Charles Rhodes (2nd Coaches)
2007-2008: Jamont Gordon (1st Coaches & 1st AP)Charles Rhodes (1st Coaches, 2nd AP)
Roberts and Austin were both All-Americans but not NBA talent, just great college players.
So you can take that NBA players are needed for the sweet-16 and throw that out the window.
Stans is a great "college" recruiter and and average floor-coach.
If he was such a great coach we would have gone to the Sweet 16 already.
We would have won the SEC tourney this past weekend. There is no excuse for the loss to UGA. (out-coached again)
Look what we have to deal with now, a 3-point shooting Oregon team and Memphis..
If we do make it to the Sweet 16 this year it will be a miracle and I will give Stans all the praise he would deserve.
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<font face="Avenir-Light" size="1"><font size="3">1998-99: Tyrone Washington (2nd AP,3rd Coaches)
1999-00: Robert Jackson (3rd Coaches)
2001-02: Mario Austin (2nd AP & Coaches)Derrick Zimmerman (3rd AP)
2002-03: Mario Austin (1st AP & Coaches)Timmy Bowers (3rd AP)Derrick Zimmerman (3rd AP)
2003-04: Timmy Bowers (1st AP & Coaches)Lawrence Roberts (1st AP & Coaches)
2004-05: Lawrence Roberts (1st AP & Coaches)Shane Power (2nd Coaches)
2005-06: Charles Rhodes (2nd AP & Coaches)
2006-07: Jamont Gordon (1st Coaches & 2nd AP)Charles Rhodes (2nd Coaches)
2007-2008: Jamont Gordon (1st Coaches & 1st AP)Charles Rhodes (1st Coaches, 2nd AP)
Roberts and Austin were both All-Americans but not NBA talent, just great college players.
So you can take that NBA players are needed for the sweet-16 and throw that out the window.
Stans is a great "college" recruiter and and average floor-coach.
If he was such a great coach we would have gone to the Sweet 16 already.
We would have won the SEC tourney this past weekend. There is no excuse for the loss to UGA. (out-coached again)
Look what we have to deal with now, a 3-point shooting Oregon team and Memphis..
If we do make it to the Sweet 16 this year it will be a miracle and I will give Stans all the praise he would deserve.
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