Culture question...

[HI Cock1]

I get it that these kids want to get to the league healthy... and what does it really say about the culture when you sit out the 2nd half or even play the whole game and then announce for the draft?

Sanders and Emmanwariare two players that overpeformed their expectations, and of course we are all grateful. It would be nice to see one of ours stick around for their final year of eligibility, too.

 

[KingWard]

Culture is a myth. It's about getting along well enough to have some semblance of a team until you get someone else lined up to pay you more money.

 

[Dabo's Weenie]

Culture is a myth. It's about getting along well enough to have some semblance of a team until you get someone else lined up to pay you more money.

Is the correct term mercenary or prostitute? Con artist? Fraud? Or is there a more appropriate one that eludes my admittedly limited vocabulary (mostly confined to 2 syllab..., syllab.. what I mean is - no big words) at the moment?

 

[KingWard]

Is the correct term mercenary or prostitute? Con artist? Fraud? Or is there a more appropriate one that eludes my admittedly limited vocabulary (mostly confined to 2 syllab..., syllab.. what I mean is - no big words) at the moment?

Mercenary is good as a noun. Venal works as an adjective.

 

[Dabo's Weenie]

Mercenary is good as a noun. Venal works as an adjective.

Thanks.

Those are much more polite than the ones that initially came to mind.

 

[BigJC]

Players today are big ME, little team. I expected nothing else as college becomes more like the NFL.

 

[Dabo's Weenie]

Players today are big ME, little team. I expected nothing else as college becomes more like the NFL.

As I was told many years ago; "There is no "I" in "TEAM"... but there is an "M" and an "E" and the rest of you are just T&A".

I believe some consider it the 11th Commandment.

 

[Coastal Gamecock]

I get it that these kids want to get to the league healthy... and what does it really say about the culture when you sit out the 2nd half or even play the whole game and then announce for the draft?

Sanders and Emmanwariare two players that overpeformed their expectations, and of course we are all grateful. It would be nice to see one of ours stick around for their final year of eligibility, too.

Sanders did things 100% right. Gave his all to the team, from the day camp opened to the last snap of the last game, THEN announced for the draft.

Quitting at halftime is unforgivable. NFL teams better beware of players who all of a sudden are embracing this trend

 

[Rhode Island Dork]

We before me. Glad that lesson was taught in the prior generations that had to fight the evil of the world. Current teens & 20s are clueless about it.

 

[uscjunkie]

For 12 games you were fine with the fact you might get hurt. Time to play for a championship and oh I am soooo scared of injury! I CALL BS!!!

 

[Topper1260]

There is no culture it’s all about money

 

[Beanerball]

If you are getting paid should have to sign a contract to play. If you don’t play all the games, then you don’t get paid. Pay on the back end. In any other business you have to finish the job to get paid. I have no problem paying, but sign a contract to do your job like the rest of us do.

 

[Dabo's Weenie]

If you are getting paid should have to sign a contract to play. If you don’t play all the games, then you don’t get paid. Pay on the back end. In any other business you have to finish the job to get paid. I have no problem paying, but sign a contract to do your job like the rest of us do.

Remember, NIL is like Nike contracting MJ to endorse their shoes so kids can "Be like Mike".

It has nothing to do with his employment contract with the Bulls.

The difference nowadays is that MJ would be free to leave the Bulls at any time (because he's not an employee) and go to another team who can line up a sponsor willing to pony up more cash than Nike, and with zero restrictions or consequences for doing so. Any team he was on could only hope he would honor his (implied?) commitment to play to the best of his ability and participate in every contest when healthy... but with no way of compelling that behavior.

They better get it while they can because I don't see how it's reasonable to think this is sustainable.

 

[I4CtheFuture]

Remember, NIL is like Nike contracting MJ to endorse their shoes so kids can "Be like Mike".

It has nothing to do with his employment contract with the Bulls.

The difference nowadays is that MJ would be free to leave the Bulls at any time (because he's not an employee) and go to another team who can line up a sponsor willing to pony up more cash than Nike, and with zero restrictions or consequences for doing so. Any team he was on could only hope he would honor his (implied?) commitment to play to the best of his ability and participate in every contest when healthy... but with no way of compelling that behavior.

They better get it while they can because I don't see how it's reasonable to think this is sustainable.

It's not sustainable. College Football is ruined. "They" have won. Evil has won. It's sad but it's over. The participation trophy culture has won out.

 

[adcoop]

It's not sustainable. College Football is ruined. "They" have won. Evil has won. It's sad but it's over. The participation trophy culture has won out.

Who is "They"? I guess you are talking about the players. So, in the end there is only a "we" when that part of the "we" does what you want them to do. With that setup, there was never a "we" in the first place. Players feel that and some have the attitude to get what they can get while they can get it. There has never been a we. There were just rules in place to protect the perception of a we. Those rules are gone and a lot of people don't like the reality.

 

[Rhode Island Dork]

We used to call our game vs. that school upstate, "Culture vs. Agriculture."

 

[Guy in the Back]

I know it has been mentioned before, but I almost wish the NFL would just start a “minor league” conference. Let them give all the NIL/contract money they want. Then let the schools field teams with the players that the NFL doesn’t get into their league. Scholarship them, provide food, room, medical, tutoring, apparel, and pay them a flat rate stipend like football is their job. Might not have the star power anymore, but it’ll go back to kids that want to play football for a school again.

 

[I4CtheFuture]

Who is "They"? I guess you are talking about the players. So, in the end there is only a "we" when that part of the "we" does what you want them to do. With that setup, there was never a "we" in the first place. Players feel that and some have the attitude to get what they can get while they can get it. There has never been a we. There were just rules in place to protect the perception of a we. Those rules are gone and a lot of people don't like the reality.

No, not the players. Unfortunately, I'm not allowed to discuss the bigger issue on this forum.

 

[Dabo's Weenie]

I know it has been mentioned before, but I almost wish the NFL would just start a “minor league” conference. Let them give all the NIL/contract money they want. Then let the schools field teams with the players that the NFL doesn’t get into their league. Scholarship them, provide food, room, medical, tutoring, apparel, and pay them a flat rate stipend like football is their job. Might not have the star power anymore, but it’ll go back to kids that want to play football for a school again.

Silly me, I thought the scholarship was the compensation for the football "work". Once you provide additional compensation beyond that, it will eventually lead to what we currently have, even if it's just on a smaller level. It would be nice to see it operate on something like a club level.

One of the reasons I've always enjoyed the Army/Navy game (and other service academy contests) is the passion and pride exhibited in them. Once they started down this road with stipends I knew that was the opening to bigger things and it was just a matter of time before it exploded. It was after that when I started watching more FCS (what little is available) and I've always enjoyed college baseball since it was mostly devoid of these influences. Sadly, ESPN is pushing everything they can get cameras to cover - pickleball, lacrosse, bowling, indoor drone races, nose picking, etc., and any time there's coverage there's money, which means "professionalization" is inevitable... which seems to expose character flaws and takes the fun out of it for a lot of people.

 

[Guy in the Back]

Silly me, I thought the scholarship was the compensation for the football "work". Once you provide additional compensation beyond that, it will eventually lead to what we currently have, even if it's just on a smaller level. It would be nice to see it operate on something like a club level.

One of the reasons I've always enjoyed the Army/Navy game (and other service academy contests) is the passion and pride exhibited in them. Once they started down this road with stipends I knew that was the opening to bigger things and it was just a matter of time before it exploded. It was after that when I started watching more FCS (what little is available) and I've always enjoyed college baseball since it was mostly devoid of these influences. Sadly, ESPN is pushing everything they can get cameras to cover - pickleball, lacrosse, bowling, indoor drone races, nose picking, etc., and any time there's coverage there's money, which means "professionalization" is inevitable... which seems to expose character flaws and takes the fun out of it for a lot of people.

They were already getting a stipend previous to NIL. My point for the stipend is that football (and some other sports) eats up so much time, they do not have an opportunity to get a job like even the kids on an academic scholarship can get. That is the reason for the stipend. Pay them what they’d make to work at McDonalds for all I care.

 

[Dabo's Weenie]

They were already getting a stipend previous to NIL.

Yes, I'm well aware and that's what I was saying with my, "Once they started down this road with stipends I knew that was the opening to bigger things and it was just a matter of time before it exploded." remark - that's what has eventually led to NIL, because once they allowed them to receive additional compensation there would be efforts to expand that money as much as possible (stipends were the beginning and NIL is the current state of affairs; who knows where it will be in a few years?).

The scholarship was for their labor in their sport and academic scholarships are typically funded from outside sources to cover those expenses and have academic performance tied to them to continue to receive them, so they create different situations.

I'm not offering a solution here, just stating my observations on how we got here and created the situation so many find unattractive.

 

[Guy in the Back]

Yes, I'm well aware and that's what I was saying with my, "Once they started down this road with stipends I knew that was the opening to bigger things and it was just a matter of time before it exploded." remark - that's what has eventually led to NIL, because once they allowed them to receive additional compensation there would be efforts to expand that money as much as possible (stipends were the beginning and NIL is the current state of affairs; who knows where it will be in a few years?).

The scholarship was for their labor in their sport and academic scholarships are typically funded from outside sources to cover those expenses and have academic performance tied to them to continue to receive them, so they create different situations.

I'm not offering a solution here, just stating my observations on how we got here and created the situation so many find unattractive.stip

I don’t believe stipends is how we got here. We got here because of the massive amounts of money being raked in and then spent on stadium upgrades (usually benefitting the upper class fan), coaches’ salaries, and such. As our society has increasingly devalued an education, can football has became all about money. Yes, I am aware that for some the education never was the goal, but that used to be the minority. Now I believe it is the majority, even for the average player.

 

[treyno2722]

For 12 games you were fine with the fact you might get hurt. Time to play for a championship and oh I am soooo scared of injury! I CALL BS!!!

Cheez-It Bowl Championship?

 

[Dabo's Weenie]

I don’t believe stipends is how we got here. We got here because of the massive amounts of money being raked in and then spent on stadium upgrades (usually benefitting the upper class fan), coaches’ salaries, and such. As our society has increasingly devalued an education, can football has became all about money. Yes, I am aware that for some the education never was the goal, but that used to be the minority. Now I believe it is the majority, even for the average player.

I'll try to clarify.
I'm talking about how we arrived at the current mess with NIL, no restraints on players and the resulting chaos - I firmly believe stipends was the start of how we have arrived where we currently sit - once the additional compensation was allowed, the drumbeat began for, "more, more, more" and the "caring and compassionate" attorneys saw a path to make themselves gajillionaires through lawsuits like House; the end game was inevitable.
Yes, people have been making a lot of money on "amateur" sports and others started telling the players that a scholarship wasn't enough compensation for their efforts and they needed more. Some of these people may have been well-intentioned but others (looking at the legal vultures) saw it as a way to make obscene amounts of money by simply getting involved in litigating the issue. But that's part of the process, not the genesis of the compensation system that is currently out of control.
I don't see anything changing my mind based on the facts and how it has played out. Get an inch, want a mile - and as you see now, there is never enough for some people; they'll sell their soul for an additional dime.

 

[Greer]

I get it that these kids want to get to the league healthy... and what does it really say about the culture when you sit out the 2nd half or even play the whole game and then announce for the draft?

Sanders and Emmanwariare two players that overpeformed their expectations, and of course we are all grateful. It would be nice to see one of ours stick around for their final year of eligibility, too.

I think players doing this kinda dispels the idea that NIL is more than what the NFL pays. I think that is only the case for players who are borderline to make the NFL and they want sure money.

 

[Piscis]

I know it has been mentioned before, but I almost wish the NFL would just start a “minor league” conference. Let them give all the NIL/contract money they want. Then let the schools field teams with the players that the NFL doesn’t get into their league. Scholarship them, provide food, room, medical, tutoring, apparel, and pay them a flat rate stipend like football is their job. Might not have the star power anymore, but it’ll go back to kids that want to play football for a school again.

Why would the NFL do that? They have a minor league now that doesn't cost them one penny.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

Cheez-It Bowl Championship?

Yeah, I think there's a trophy or something.

 

[Guy in the Back]

I'll try to clarify.
I'm talking about how we arrived at the current mess with NIL, no restraints on players and the resulting chaos - I firmly believe stipends was the start of how we have arrived where we currently sit - once the additional compensation was allowed, the drumbeat began for, "more, more, more" and the "caring and compassionate" attorneys saw a path to make themselves gajillionaires through lawsuits like House; the end game was inevitable.
Yes, people have been making a lot of money on "amateur" sports and others started telling the players that a scholarship wasn't enough compensation for their efforts and they needed more. Some of these people may have been well-intentioned but others (looking at the legal vultures) saw it as a way to make obscene amounts of money by simply getting involved in litigating the issue. But that's part of the process, not the genesis of the compensation system that is currently out of control.
I don't see anything changing my mind based on the facts and how it has played out. Get an inch, want a mile - and as you see now, there is never enough for some people; they'll sell their soul for an additional dime.

I was not a college athlete; I was not blessed with that much talent. Stipends were around for many years before NIL talk began. Not trying to change your mind, to each their own. I just don’t think stipends started this mess. I think social media, increased exposure, and greed created the mess.

 

[Guy in the Back]

Why would the NFL do that? They have a minor league now that doesn't cost them one penny.

That is why I wish!! Did you ever think it would get like this? I don’t like the opt-outs, but at least you have a month to prepare. The playing a half is for the birds.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

I just don’t think stipends started this mess.

Thank a lawyer.

 

[Guy in the Back]

Thank a lawyer.

Sounds right

 

[Uscg1984]

Those rules are gone and a lot of people don't like the reality.

I'd caution against blowing off the fact that people don't like what they're seeing. Those people are fans (ie, customers). Ultimately, college football isn't driven by the athletes, coaches, or even the conferences and programs. The value of the entire enterprise is due solely to the paying customers.

 

[adcoop]

I'd caution against blowing off the fact that people don't like what they're seeing. Those people are fans (ie, customers). Ultimately, college football isn't driven by the athletes, coaches, or even the conferences and programs. The value of the entire enterprise is due solely to the paying customers.

I'm not blowing it off. I'm just stating the reality. Until some entity is able to change it, this is where we are. I highlighted in other posts, that you have the choice to make other entertainment choices. However, whining to like-minded people who have no ability to change the issue resolves nothing. It's like fans want the kids to resolve the problem that the adults created. Never seen that work.

 

[Tidalcock]

Mercenary is good as a noun. Venal works as an adjective.

So, venal mercenary?

 

[Uscg1984]

I'm not blowing it off. I'm just stating the reality. Until some entity is able to change it, this is where we are. I highlighted in other posts, that you have the choice to make other entertainment choices. However, whining to like-minded people who have no ability to change the issue resolves nothing. It's like fans want the kids to resolve the problem that the adults created. Never seen that work.

Well, message boards are pretty much designed for whining, so to quote you "this is where we are." I don't think anybody expects the folks on this board to fix the problem.

But you are 100% correct that people are free to make other entertainment choices, and many will. I have said that many times. But it's still sad seeing something you've enjoyed your whole life being destroyed from within (and without).

 

[KingWard]

So, venal mercenary?

Correct, but a little redundant.

 

[Tidalcock]

Correct, but a little redundant.

I’m still learning.