Dawn is the standard by which the men's coach should be judged

[Rogue Cock]

I’ve heard the same. Should have been a moot point as RT shouldn’t have given that ridiculous extension.

Well he did it after the 8 win season and he seemed to be recruiting well and the President and Board had to approve it. It turned out bad though for sure.

 

[atl-cock]

I don't take it as an attack on me because I agree with your sentiment. Yet some jobs are harder than others, for a variety of reasons. We need success in basketball that's long-term. Unfortunately we have not got that yet. We have not yet had a coach to leave or retire on a happy note. Even McGuire was kind of pushed out. Fogler ended his tenure on down years. NIT Dave was pushed out. Paris looks promising. Maybe he's the one to finally give us long-term and big-time success. And maybe Beamer is the one to give us long-term success in football, something that we have lacked in that sport as well. Wouldn't it be a treat to have big-time success in the 2 major sports for the next 20 years? We long-time suffering Gamecock fans deserve that.

It would be a treat to have success in all varsity sports USC sponsors.

 

[Deleted11512]

Well he did it after the 8 win season and he seemed to be recruiting well and the President and Board had to approve it. It turned out bad though for sure.

Nope. He had just gone 7-6 and got booty blasted by UVA in the Belk Bowl.

 

[Rogue Cock]

Nope. He had just gone 7-6 and got booty blasted by UVA in the Belk Bowl.

Yep. He received the raise and extension in January 2018 prior to the 2018 football season in which he went 7-6. The Virginia game was at the end of December 2018.

 

[Deleted11512]

Yep. He received the raise and extension in January 2018 prior to the 2018 football season in which he went 7-6. The Virginia game was at the end of December 2018.

Haha. That was the first extension. The big whoopsie with the massive buyout was the dec 2018 extension.

 

[Rogue Cock]

Haha. That was the first extension. The big whoopsie with the massive buyout was the dec 2018 extension.

That was the big raise and extension. The extension prior to Muschamps last season lowered the buyout. It was never fully executed and delivered but that didn’t matter as both parties relied on it.

There was no December 2018 extension and were no other raises or extensions except for assistants other than those to keep him at 5 years on his contract.

 

[ScWildthing61]

Fogler’s comment is that we should expect to make the NCAAs once about every 4 year
Everyone seems to expect we can throw money at a coach and he will come, but any coach wants a decent opportunity to win. And we have large hurdles…we are an SEC school with ACC powers at our doorstep and we have shown little to no ability to recruit the better players from our own state…that is a tall order for any coach to overcome. Heck we can’t even lure a successful in-state coach. It ain’t all about the money.

Fogler should've been fired after that 1999 team crashed as hard as it did, always felt that after 1995, he got lazy in recruiting and it came back to bite him in the rear end starting with that 98-99 season.

 

[ScWildthing61]

Should have never hired Muschamp. Whichever AD hired Martin, can't blame him because Martin came in here from Kansas State, having made the NCAA Tournament 4 out of 5 years, including the Elite 8 one year.

I believe the Martin hire was on Eric Hyman's watch.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Only a handful of schools really GAS about winning at women's basketball. Much harder to win in men's sports. Not comparable in any sense.

Does that diminish Dawn's accomplishments then?

 

[Deleted11512]

That was the big raise and extension. The extension prior to Muschamps last season lowered the buyout. It was never fully executed and delivered but that didn’t matter as both parties relied on it.

There was no December 2018 extension and were no other raises or extensions except for assistants other than those to keep him at 5 years on his contract.

Well, we’re both right and wrong. Inexplicably, he did in fact get a one year extension with a $200k/yr escalator after the 2018 season. That costed us $5m on the buyout. But you are correct, the big raise and extension through the 2023 season happened after the 2017 season. The money and term were fine. But the buyout essentially making it a guaranteed contract was ludicrous.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

Does that diminish Dawn's accomplishments then?

If you could hire Wooden today and win 10 men's national championships or Geno and win 11 women's national championships, which would you do?

 

[atl-cock]

If you could hire Wooden today and win 10 men's national championships or Geno and win 11 women's national championships, which would you do?

Doing the math, 11>10.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

Doing the math, 11>10.

I'm aware. But it's about more than just math.

 

[BetaLiberalCock1]

If you could hire Wooden today and win 10 men's national championships or Geno and win 11 women's national championships, which would you do?

I'd hire Satterfield and then send him to Nebraska.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

I'd hire Satterfield and then send him to Nebraska.

 

[atl-cock]

I'm aware. But it's about more than just math.

You asked a question, and I answered it.

 

[Mauze1]

I really don't follow the women's team at all, other than what I pick up peripherally from following Gamecocks sports in general. That said, I know enough to know we were not terribly good before Dawn (though we weren't totally abysmal with 3 NITs in the three prior seasons, but it looks like we were getting worse, per Wiki) and now we're elite.

Some on here have consistently drawn a comparison between Dawn's start and Paris' start as justification to support Paris. If Dawn is the comparison, then she has to be the standard.

Looking at her Wiki page, it looks like it took her 4 seasons to turn the program COMPLETELY around. She had us in the top 25 in Season 4 with a Sweet 16 appearance, and has taken us to the Sweet 16 or better for 12 straight seasons, with the exception of '12-'13 when we were knocked in the second round. She showed steady and significant progress from Year 1 to Year 2 to Year 3 and then in Year 4 when the turnaround was complete. Progress was concretely shown in both win total and conference ranking. None of this vague "it doesn't show in the W/L column but we're playing more cohesive" or whatever gobledygook. Our win total under Dawn went from 10 to 14 to 18 to 25 (conference was 2, 7, 8, 10), and she has maintained us at that level or higher. Again, concrete metrics showing progress.

For me, that sets the bar for the men's team. You must show steady and significant progress each year and have us in the NCAAT in Year 4. Period. Progress has to be concretely demonstrated with steadily improving W/L records and conference rankings. Paris is starting out at roughly the same point as Dawn in terms of W/L and conference ranking. Dawn went from a .357 win percentage in Year 1 while Paris put up a slightly lower .344. In Year 2, Dawn jumped to .482, so I'd expect a comparable improvement from Paris next season.

If you can't hit the concrete metrics established by Dawn, you're not the guy. Cut bait and move on.

Some will object that it's unreasonable to expect a coach to live up to Dawn's exceptional standard. But isn't that what we're shooting for?

The three most important priorities in basketball. RECRUITING, RECRUITING, and RECRUITING. We older Carolina fans can remember back to the arrival of Frank McGuire. His teams were great only after he started recruiting the best players in the country. Dawn has done the same. She gets the best players. Coach Paris has just now started to recruit. Last years class was Ad Hoc at best. We have heard it said “ This is not an easy job!” we Know he will need time. It remains to be seen if he can bring in elite players

It is interesting Coach Beamer is doing that right now. When he was hired I was hoping he would be a great recruiter and I had hope because he had been recruiting coordinator several places, including here. Those who fallow recruiting closely will tell you he is in the mix for more elite player than any previous SC coach.

 

[atl-cock]

The three most important priorities in basketball. RECRUITING, RECRUITING, and RECRUITING. We older Carolina fans can remember back to the arrival of Frank McGuire. His teams were great only after he started recruiting the best players in the country. Dawn has done the same. She gets the best players. Coach Paris has just now started to recruit. Last years class was Ad Hoc at best. We have heard it said “ This is not an easy job!” we Know he will need time. It remains to be seen if he can bring in elite players

It is interesting Coach Beamer is doing that right now. When he was hired I was hoping he would be a great recruiter and I had hope because he had been recruiting coordinator several places, including here. Those who fallow recruiting closely will tell you he is in the mix for more elite player than any previous SC coach.

I agree that talent is more important than coaching ability. But you do need some coaching ability to win championships.