Does it really make sense to keep Lem another year?.....

[thekimmer]

I am hearing that what Lem MUST do is go out and get an good established pitching coach. But how in the world is he going to pull that off with his *** on fire and the prospect of a one-and-done stint pretty high?

Logically it seems to me by giving him another year the best we are likely to get is a prospect type pitching coach and a significant likelihood of being in this same spot another year. If getting an established pitching coach is what we have to do then isn't our best chance to accomplish that is to hire a new HC and the assurance of a few years to work with that comes with that.

 

[HuntDawg]

While i certainly dont disagree, this move again leads be to believe that CL will be given another year.

I'm no fan at all for the record, but from an adminstrative side, firing Lemonis would be firing a coach that went to the CWS 2 of his 4 years here, won the schools first national championship. Would also be the 5th head coach in the past 9 seasons. Plus I'm sure there is a buy out you'd have to deal with as well.

But i agree, best move, is probably to move on, but I dont see it happening barring. a collapse.

 

[mcdawg22]

I am hearing that what Lem MUST do is go out and get an good established pitching coach. But how in the world is he going to pull that off with his *** on fire and the prospect of a one-and-done stint pretty high?

Logically it seems to me by giving him another year the best we are likely to get is a prospect type pitching coach and a significant likelihood of being in this same spot another year. If getting an established pitching coach is what we have to do then isn't our best chance to accomplish that is to hire a new HC and the assurance of a few years to work with that comes with that.

Whenever the question comes up will a coach go somewhere where a seat is hot I wonder what the mindset of the coach is. I assume since these guys are top guys in their field, they are pretty alpha and confident so they don’t think they will fail.
Does that mean they will risk a steady job and uprooting their family for an opportunity to make more money with more resources only to be on the unemployment line in a year? I don’t know. It just seems like the mentality to succeed at that level is to believe in yourself enough to think that you can always find an opportunity because you are that good.

 

[Perd Hapley]

I see it completely opposite. This team has a near double digit ERA in SEC play. Putrid. Bar for improvement is incredibly low. If staff ERA this season was just in the 6-6.5 area (which is still awful), we’d be at or right around .500 in conference play and on the right side of the bubble.

Any new pitching coach that can come in and just get us to mediocrity for a year or 2 before getting us back to the upper echelon will put us back in postseason play. Hitting isn’t bad and will be better next year with 5-7 regulars returning. And one who comes in and does well will get a huge raise and/or a shot at the HC job if for whatever reason we nosedive enough in other areas….or they’ll get an opportunity elsewhere like Butch / Ming if we improve.

No reason at all to think it won’t be an attractive job. That’s not necessarily a case for keeping Lemonis, but I don’t think we should just get rid of him because we think the PC hire will be difficult.

 

[patdog]

While i certainly dont disagree, this move again leads be to believe that CL will be given another year.

I'm no fan at all for the record, but from an adminstrative side, firing Lemonis would be firing a coach that went to the CWS 2 of his 4 years here, won the schools first national championship. Would also be the 5th head coach in the past 9 seasons. Plus I'm sure there is a buy out you'd have to deal with as well.

But i agree, best move, is probably to move on, but I dont see it happening barring. a collapse.

I really think it's ridiculous to worry about the optics of firing a coach who had great success even as recently as 2 years ago when that coach has been this bad for the last 2 years. Nobody is going to question that. Do you think for one second that if Nick Saban or Kirby Smart puts up back-to-back 0-8 seasons they won't be fired? Of course they would be.

 

[The Peeper]

I can't think of a good reason any MSU head coach that finishes in last place in the SEC 2 years in a row needs to be kept, ESPECIALLY in baseball. I don't care what they did in the past

 

[8dog]

I think everyone agrees that we have to do well in the portal to improve on the mound in addition to a new PC. What happens if we give Lem another year and we look around in July and the portal has gone poorly for us (incoming and outgoing - yes there are guys we need to return)?

 

[Perd Hapley]

I really think it's ridiculous to worry about the optics of firing a coach who had great success even as recently as 2 years ago when that coach has been this bad for the last 2 years. Nobody is going to question that. Do you think for one second that if Nick Saban or Kirby Smart puts up back-to-back 0-8 seasons they won't be fired? Of course they would be.

Its not really about the optics to me.

If you think that the culture has become toxic, or that the talent across the entire roster is sorely lacking (or both), then you fire him. And you do that whether its been zero years or 1 year or 10 years since the same guy won a title.

If its neither of those, you keep him for another year with an opportunity to make staff changes to turn things around.

Only those with very close ties to the program can speak to how bought in the players are and what the culture is like currently. From a talent standpoint, we appear to have what we need offensively but not in the pitching department.

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

I think everyone agrees that we have to do well in the portal to improve on the mound in addition to a new PC. What happens if we give Lem another year and we look around in July and the portal has gone poorly for us (incoming and outgoing - yes there are guys we need to return)?

Kinda like how it did this past off-season? Nixon is decent, Dohm has been up and down in SEC play. MSU had a jump-start on the portal after missing the post-season, and was one year removed from winning the national title, and couldn't get any impact pitchers on board knowing that that was going to be the teams achilles heel.

 

[Shmuley]

Start over. Do everything possible to get this next hire right.

 

[beachbumdawg]

I can't think of a good reason any MSU head coach that finishes in last place in the SEC 2 years in a row needs to be kept, ESPECIALLY in baseball. I don't care what they did in the past

This all day - include S&C coaches too

and fire the social media personnel folks too for trying to polish this turd

 

[kired]

Man, this would be a tough decision to make. It's hard for me to just write off a 50 win season in 2019 and the NC. Last year was such a mess with pitching. I think we all expected guys like Stinnett, Hunt, and Fristoe to take that next step. Losing Sims and not being able to depend on those guys really hurt. You also had to expect some hangover from winning our first NC. So I could easily dismiss 2022.

But this season has been an absolute disaster. Never in a million years would I have expected it to be this bad. So he deserves to be fired. But I can also understand people who say he earned the right to be given another year to turn it around. The last thing you want to do is have another single digit SEC win year. So CL would have to convince me he has a legit plan, with new players coming in, that should get this team back in postseason play.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I can't think of a good reason any MSU head coach that finishes in last place in the SEC 2 years in a row needs to be kept, ESPECIALLY in baseball. I don't care what they did in the past

I want someone to convince me that changing pitching coaches will fix this **** show... alone.

 

[HuntDawg]

I want someone to convince me that changing pitching coaches will fix this **** show... alone.

I agree. I mean we brought back 4 starters off last years team positiion player wise. 1 played his way out of the lineup, another one should have in Hancock.

I dont see the talent offensively everyone else is seeing. We have 4 SEC caliber hitters. Thats all.. 1 is for sure gone next year in ledbetter, and clark is the other who if i were him, would go strongly consider leaving for the professional ranks.

Larry, Highfill, Mershon, you know he'll run back out Forsythe, and all the other freshman havent shown to be SEC caliber hitters and this staff has yet to show they can develop them into those type hitters.

We are in the middle of the pack in conference play in nearly every category, 10th in runs... this is with Hines having a historic type season AND jordan being very good.

If Foxhall needed to be shown the door, so does Cheese and Geaxtreau as well. They've yet to show they can recruit or develop talent/players

 

[travis.sixpack]

Start over. Do everything possible to get this next hire right.

Brilliant!

 

[thekimmer]

Its not really about the optics to me.

If you think that the culture has become toxic, or that the talent across the entire roster is sorely lacking (or both), then you fire him. And you do that whether its been zero years or 1 year or 10 years since the same guy won a title.

If its neither of those, you keep him for another year with an opportunity to make staff changes to turn things around.

Only those with very close ties to the program can speak to how bought in the players are and what the culture is like currently. From a talent standpoint, we appear to have what we need offensively but not in the pitching department.

I think I read this on another fansite story that quoted Kissinger I think saying "if you know something has to be done eventually then do it immediately". But then that is the assessment that Selmon has to make. If he is not confident that Lem will be able to get the job done then there is no need to put it off.

 

[eckie1]

I am hearing that what Lem MUST do is go out and get an good established pitching coach. But how in the world is he going to pull that off with his *** on fire and the prospect of a one-and-done stint pretty high?

Logically it seems to me by giving him another year the best we are likely to get is a prospect type pitching coach and a significant likelihood of being in this same spot another year. If getting an established pitching coach is what we have to do then isn't our best chance to accomplish that is to hire a new HC and the assurance of a few years to work with that comes with that.

I think Lemonis deserves a shot at trying to resolve the pitching woes. I don’t always love the guy, but he isn’t stubborn at all and isn’t afraid to shake things up.

Like other posters have said, all we have to do next year is to improve significantly from being one of the worst in all of P5 at pitching. Not an unattainable goal at all.

I had visions of Lemonis grandstanding at the end of the season about firing Foxhall. I’m ecstatic that we did this, and it happened several weeks later than I would have preferred. Foxhall made the wrong side of history here these last two years, and that can’t be tolerated here.

 

[Pilgrimdawg]

I think the new AD should ask CL for his specific detailed plan on exactly what he will do to fix baseball and then make his decision on whether to move on or not based on what he comes up with. It’s really no different than the corporate business environment. When something goes off the rails, the boss ask for a written business plan on how you are going to fix it. Details. Whose going to do what and by when. Execute the plan, fix the problem, and all is well. Screw it up and you have a lot of time to fish. If CL proposes a reasonable plan give him another year. If he just comes up with BS and excuses, move on immediately. Athletics is a business. Run it like one.

 

[ababyatemydingo]

I want someone to convince me that changing pitching coaches will fix this **** show... alone.

agreed. I just don't think he's a great recruiter and evaluator. It's going to take a GREAT recruiter and no misses on evaluations to get this ship turned around. If they keep him, I hope he wins 50 next year. With the roster we had, I knew this year was going to be down some, but never expected the wheels to fall off. Next year was supposed to be a come close to making a run year, with '25 being another Omaha run year. With the pitching misses and non-development, that's set back quite a ways. Foxhall really has made a mess of the pitching roster.

 

[tcdog70]

You can fire him now or you can fire Him later---now would be way better.. MSU baseball doesn't finish last --for sure not two years in a row--Why is a question -would we fire him--hell yes-we do

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

You can fire him now or you can fire Him later---now would be way better.. MSU baseball doesn't finish last --for sure not two years in a row--Why is a question -would we fire him--hell yes-we do

We have more issues than just our pitching staff and a clean sweep would probably be the best solution.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I want someone to convince me that changing pitching coaches will fix this **** show... alone.

I agree with this. While I understand our pitching is the problem, it goes beyond 'coaching'. I think we should have let Lemonis decide what to do on Fox, and he sinks or swims with him. Either this year or next.

I don't like using Fox as a scapegoat but that is the way of the cruel world.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I agree with this. While I understand our pitching is the problem, it goes beyond 'coaching'. I think we should have let Lemonis decide what to do on Fox, and he sinks or swims with him. Either this year or next.

I don't like using Fox as a scapegoat but that is the way of the cruel world.

I'm usually the guy on the 'keep the coach' bandwagon, but not in this instance, and it's just dragging on too long like that girlfriend you kept around to keep from being alone and trying to start all over again when you should've broken up with her a long time ago.

 

[curseddawgs]

This all day - include S&C coaches too

and fire the social media personnel folks too for trying to polish this turd

We need a new bus driver too