ESPN has our back

[bonedaddy401]

Saw this posted a second ago.

<p class="blogHead">Don't hate on Mississippi State </p> <p class="blogDate">July 9, 2008 12:20 PM</p> <div class="blogEntry"> <p style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"></p>

Posted by ESPN.com's Chris Low</p> <table cellspacing="4" cellpadding="0" align="right" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td> </td> <td>

</td> </tr> <tr> <td> </td> <td align="right"><font size="1">AP Photo/Jim Lytle</font></td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

Got a message from an Alabama fan chastising me about saying it was a <font color="#000000">toss-up between Alabama and Mississippi State</font> for the third spot in the Western Division this season.</p>

Well, I meant it. The last time I checked, Mississippi State has won the last two against Alabama and is coming off a breakthrough season under Sylvester Croom. No team in the league plays as consistently hard on every play as the Bulldogs, and that's a credit to Croom. It's also a trait that's underappreciated.</p>

Getting to eight wins again for the Bulldogs won't be easy. They lost some key personnel from last year's team, including the unexpected dismissal of left offensive tackle Michael Brown after he was <font color="#000000">arrested for firing a handgun</font> on campus. Offensively, the Bulldogs need to prove they can throw the football more effectively after throwing just 12 touchdown passes last season and finishing last in the SEC in passing offense.</p>

But the schedule gets a little easier this season, and Croom has upgraded the speed on the offensive side of the ball. Georgia Tech replaces West Virginia, and a trip to South Carolina is replaced by a home game against Vanderbilt.</p>

So, yes, I think Mississippi State is for real and that Croom -- with his well-deserved raise to $1.7 million annually -- will continue to attract quality players to the program. Even he says there's a lot more out there than just eight wins and a Liberty Bowl victory.</p> </div> <p class="tags"><font color="#2A2A2A">Mississippi State Bulldogs</font>, <font color="#2A2A2A">Sylvester Croom</font></p>

 

[bonedaddy401]

Saw this posted a second ago.

<p class="blogHead">Don't hate on Mississippi State </p> <p class="blogDate">July 9, 2008 12:20 PM</p> <div class="blogEntry"> <p style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"></p>

Posted by ESPN.com's Chris Low</p> <table cellspacing="4" cellpadding="0" align="right" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td> </td> <td>

</td> </tr> <tr> <td> </td> <td align="right"><font size="1">AP Photo/Jim Lytle</font></td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

Got a message from an Alabama fan chastising me about saying it was a <font color="#000000">toss-up between Alabama and Mississippi State</font> for the third spot in the Western Division this season.</p>

Well, I meant it. The last time I checked, Mississippi State has won the last two against Alabama and is coming off a breakthrough season under Sylvester Croom. No team in the league plays as consistently hard on every play as the Bulldogs, and that's a credit to Croom. It's also a trait that's underappreciated.</p>

Getting to eight wins again for the Bulldogs won't be easy. They lost some key personnel from last year's team, including the unexpected dismissal of left offensive tackle Michael Brown after he was <font color="#000000">arrested for firing a handgun</font> on campus. Offensively, the Bulldogs need to prove they can throw the football more effectively after throwing just 12 touchdown passes last season and finishing last in the SEC in passing offense.</p>

But the schedule gets a little easier this season, and Croom has upgraded the speed on the offensive side of the ball. Georgia Tech replaces West Virginia, and a trip to South Carolina is replaced by a home game against Vanderbilt.</p>

So, yes, I think Mississippi State is for real and that Croom -- with his well-deserved raise to $1.7 million annually -- will continue to attract quality players to the program. Even he says there's a lot more out there than just eight wins and a Liberty Bowl victory.</p> </div> <p class="tags"><font color="#2A2A2A">Mississippi State Bulldogs</font>, <font color="#2A2A2A">Sylvester Croom</font></p>

 

[bonedaddy401]

Saw this posted a second ago.

<p class="blogHead">Don't hate on Mississippi State </p> <p class="blogDate">July 9, 2008 12:20 PM</p> <div class="blogEntry"> <p style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"></p>

Posted by ESPN.com's Chris Low</p> <table cellspacing="4" cellpadding="0" align="right" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td> </td> <td>

</td> </tr> <tr> <td> </td> <td align="right"><font size="1">AP Photo/Jim Lytle</font></td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

Got a message from an Alabama fan chastising me about saying it was a <font color="#000000">toss-up between Alabama and Mississippi State</font> for the third spot in the Western Division this season.</p>

Well, I meant it. The last time I checked, Mississippi State has won the last two against Alabama and is coming off a breakthrough season under Sylvester Croom. No team in the league plays as consistently hard on every play as the Bulldogs, and that's a credit to Croom. It's also a trait that's underappreciated.</p>

Getting to eight wins again for the Bulldogs won't be easy. They lost some key personnel from last year's team, including the unexpected dismissal of left offensive tackle Michael Brown after he was <font color="#000000">arrested for firing a handgun</font> on campus. Offensively, the Bulldogs need to prove they can throw the football more effectively after throwing just 12 touchdown passes last season and finishing last in the SEC in passing offense.</p>

But the schedule gets a little easier this season, and Croom has upgraded the speed on the offensive side of the ball. Georgia Tech replaces West Virginia, and a trip to South Carolina is replaced by a home game against Vanderbilt.</p>

So, yes, I think Mississippi State is for real and that Croom -- with his well-deserved raise to $1.7 million annually -- will continue to attract quality players to the program. Even he says there's a lot more out there than just eight wins and a Liberty Bowl victory.</p> </div> <p class="tags"><font color="#2A2A2A">Mississippi State Bulldogs</font>, <font color="#2A2A2A">Sylvester Croom</font></p>

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

the same thing for our coach that Ole Miss is paying for their veteran head coach with a proven record. It boggles the mind.

 

[dickiedawg]

<17> Alabama fans and their arrogant-*** faux superiority.

 

[bonedaddy401]

having a successful African American head coach in the SEC is something no one can say but us. That can only help as far recruiting is concerned. But I forgot we hate recruiting. </p>

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

supremacy = UK basketball supremacy.

The day has passed.

= MSU baseball?

 

[VegasDawg13]

having a successful African American head coach in the SEC is something no one can say but us. That can only help as far recruiting is concerned. </p>

That is a load of **** that I can't believe people still buy into. </p>

 

[RebelBruiser]

having a successful African American head coach in the SEC is something no one can say but us. That can only help as far recruiting is concerned.</p>

That is a load of **** that I can't believe people still buy into.</p>

</p>

Exhibit A - Rod Barnes/Rick Stansbury

Which one recruited better? Race of the coach has very little if anything to do with recruiting. By that kind of reasoning, Barnes would've cleaned up and Stans would've been SOL. After all, Barnes was a successful African American coach in the SEC at least in the early years.

 

[Goat Holder]

and we have a coach who has no national title, but is VERY hungry for one. Alabama football and Kentucky basketball aren't as desperate as MSU baseball. UA and UK are still hungry, but not to the extent we are.

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

he is black. If you want to think that, I guess that is your business -- affirmative action and what not. I don't care if he is purple as long as he wins.

But, it is your definition of successful I would like to address. He might be on the road to success. I am willing to acknowlege that. But, right now, I weight his overall record of 17-30 (I think) more than I weight his most recent year of 8-5 in whether to consider him a success. I think it is up in the air right now. One more winning year, and I am willing to proclaim him a success. However, if that doesn't happen, I call last year a fluke and pronounce him a failure. However, unlike you, when I make that determination, I will give a **** what color his skin is -- either way.

 

[Goat Holder]

something LT never did. If we win this year, which I think we will, we will still have our man and keep our consistency. If we hadn't given him a raise, I think he'd left for bigger money.

But we could still be loser if Croom registers a 3 or 4 win season. Won't happen, though.

 

[bonedaddy401]

different story. Croom is the FIRST black head coach ever in the SEC. He also preaches going to class, being accountable, character and so on and so on. If a young black male want to play football in the SEC and he and his family want him to play for a black coach he can only go one place. Keith Fitzhugh told me himself that was the major factor in his choice. I know he wasn't a blue chipper yad yada yada but you see my point. How could it do anything but help?

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

when he hired to guy. Now, I don't think he had much choice other than to roll the dice. But, I have always characterized the Croom hire as a roll of the dice. I didn't have any problem with that roll of the dice, other than you don't promise a roll of the dice 18 years no matter the record.

 

[bonedaddy401]

his race is either in a racist manner. Trust me I am far from being that. But you can't deny that it effects his national exposure as a head coach. Who knows who would snatch him up if we happened to make winning 8 games a year a habit. I am with you hesitating on calling him a success as far as the long run is concerned but he has had success in attaining a winning season.

 

[DowntownDawg]

....being black and walking into a black player's living room probably generally makes some difference, even if it is small. Being black and being a father figure and walking in there makes a bigger difference, but being a black father figure and the first black coach in the SEC makes a decent sized difference in that on top of all of it, we get a fair amount of publicity, and will get more the more Croom wins. Publicity = help in recruiting. Rod Barnes was not a trailblazer, and basketball is a different sport.

That said, none of this will typically outweigh the money that other teams might be putting out there, or the huge gap in facilities/tradition that exists between say State and LSU, and it won't outweigh losing either. But if the first black SEC head coach can become consistently successful, then it definitely will work in our favor for the reasons stated above.

 

[Goat Holder]

Hell, we couldn't get any worse, he could blame everything on Sherrill, plus all the positive media reaction from it. But, it turned out to be a pretty good hire regardless, and that's a credit to LT. Pretty damn lucky that the available black guy could actually coach. Not because he's black, but good coaching is rather hard to find.</p>

 

[jamdawg96]

out there... and I mean ANY coach out there... that would've won more than 20 games in his first four seasons here at State after the mess we were left in. It's just not logical to expect an immediate turnaround for a lower-tier (funded) SEC school on probation to win immediately. I think we knew that going in.. So why would you hold that against him? I don't give a damn about including his first three years in his overall record. No one should. It's irrelevant. It was necessary. No current coach in the SEC would've been able to do it, I'll guarantee you that. They've said it themselves. Bear Bryant could've jumped out of his grave to help us and I still say we wouldn't have had any winning seasons until last year.

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

every damn thing you just said there, Larry.

Yep. I just re-read your post. Not one single thing I can pick out of there I agree with. I tried.

 

[RebelBruiser]

Well, Bear Bryant did take over a Texas A&M program in 1954 that was in bad shape. He then made it worse with the Junction boys thing. However, in his 2nd season, they went 7-2-1 and in his third season, they went 9-0-1 and won the SWC.

When Bear Bryant took over at Kentucky in 1946, Kentucky had had 3 straight losing seasons, including a year where they didn't play because of the war. In his 8 years at UK he never had a losing season, including a 7-3 record in his first season.

It's difficult to compare generations, and yes your program was in bad shape, but to say that not even Bear Bryant could've had a winning season in his first 3 years is a BIG stretch.

 

[jamdawg96]

give me an SEC coach and tell me why he would have been able to make so much of a difference compared to Croom's that we would already be experiencing prolonged success. I told you before, most of the coaches have already said he's doing as good a job as anyone could do. I've heard it come out of their mouths. Urban, Tubs, PhatPhil, and even the Ol' Ball Coach... They've all sung his praises. This is all hypothetical anyways, so there's no way we can prove either one of us right. I'd just like to see your thoughts on this.

Keep in mind the talent level compared to what other SEC coaches have had to work with the past few years. Keep in mind that three years of losing is relatively small in the grand scheme of things, and show me a coach who would've gotten more hype from the media, and brought more attention to Starkville... a town that pales in comparison to the resources that lie in every SEC Eastern town, and most of the Western ones too. Do you honestly think another coach would've gotten more attention? More games on ESPN? Or an inspiring feature on an ESPN documentary? That kind of exposure isn't always good, but considering where it's coming from, I'll take it all day long.

And think about how your perception, and more importantly, recruits' perception, of guys like Urban Meyer or Nick Saban would be had they taken a job like State? It doesn't matter who our head coach would have been four years ago. The NAME we created for ourselves at that time far outweighed any coach's name that was on the market. We had to get a guy like Croom. Someone who wouldn't come in and immediately create false expectations (see: Saban) based on who he was. The image a coach can create for his school is far more powerful than the image he represents as himself. We've gone about it the right way. And Croom has shown that we can be successful. At least give him that.

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

of names. But, I just don't buy that we were going to have 3 horrible seasons no matter what. And I think it is horrible to approach entire seasons of football with that attitude. I dont' think you can think you are going to have 3 losing seasons and put your best effort into winning each game.

And I will give him that he had a good season last year. That's what I will give him. Showing we can be successful? Hell, I knew that already. Jackie showed me that. And I ain't his biggest fan.

 

[patdog]

A statement that no coach could have won more than 9 games in his first three years at MSU with what Croom inherited is just ridiculous. I just can't believe that an Urban Meyer, for example, couldn't have won 12-15 games. That said, you're right that there's just no way to overstate the shambles the program was in when Croom took over. I've said this before, but I really do believe our football program was in as bad shape as I've ever seen an SEC program be in.

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

won, no matter how bad things were. Maine. Troy. Tulane. </p>

 

[holdembulldogs]

This is a great article bonedaddy...ESPN has never had our back that I can remember so it is good to see.

 

[DowntownDawg]

Croom's never played Troy.

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

we should have played and beaten Troy.

I was probably thinking about LSU. Yeah. LSU.

Sorry.

 

[RebelBruiser]

I will agree that your program was in really bad shape when Croom took over. The probation wasn't that big of a deal, but the team chemistry and lack of talent was a major issue.

For comparison though, I still say Tubberville had it worse when he took over in 1995 at Ole Miss. Our probation was much worse, and our talent was probably only slightly better. For that matter, in his second season, we had a game at UGA late in the season where we traveled less than 50 scholarship players for the game. And even so, he managed to take us to an 8-4 season and bowl game in only his third year.

So I disagree that 9-25 or whatever it was in the first 3 years for MSU was not the best that could've been done. I do think that by the third season, a better coach would've had you bowling in a lower tier bowl.

 

[patdog]

was an overwhelming majority of players who were drug addicts, felons, and other problem players. Croom had a lot more weeding out to do than Tubberville ever thought about. And it's not even close. Not to mention that you hadn't even had one 3-win season, much less two straight followed by a 2-win season. Compared to what Croom took over, I'd have been thrilled for him to take over what Tubby did at Mississippi.

 

[FlabLoser]

Agree obviously Tuberville >> Croom

But we had a lot more than a light probation. Prior to that we had 3 years of "your team is under investigation and MSU is going to get hit hard with probation" going on. That alone was a lot worse than the probation. So really we had a 6 year probation.

 

[biguglyjoe]

Agree obviously Tuberville >> Croom

But we had a lot more than a light probation. Prior to that we had 3 years of "your team is under investigation and MSU is going to get hit hard with probation" going on. That alone was a lot worse than the probation. So really we had a 6 year probation.

B-I-N-G-O.

</p>

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

I guess you guys are right. We had no business winning the 9 games we did the first 3 Croom years. We were fornate to win those. And as for beating Maine? How dare we even consider that as a possibility given the huge obstacles we had to overcome to field a team with even half the talent and coaching ability as Maine. Maine. Or Tulane. Those guys were just vastly superior in talent that season when they had all those homeless guys playing for them.

 

[TX Mud Dawg]

had McCoveys *** for the way he has ran the offense. Being ranked last in the league in offense the last three years would not have been acceptable for the bear or almost anywhere else for that matter. We all know though that Croom is too much of friend to fire Woody.

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

So, I'm not saying he took a big gamble in hiring an unknown vs. hiring an unknown. I think we were forced to hire someone that was an unknown in terms of being a winning head coach. We didn't have a choice. But, whoever we hired was going to be a big roll of the dice in terms of whether they turned out to be a winner. Given this fact, I agree that Croom was an easy hire to hide behind. The deal he struck, however, was something he couldn't hide behind.

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

our regard for MSU baseball is the most irrational.

Both of those schools have totally lost any value that their tradition once held in terms of recruiting and the confidence of their athletes, though. Dead. notta.

KY still does have Rupp and the season ticket sales. Financially, that would seem to permit a resurrection.

 

[ArrowDawg]

.....somebody got our back like that and didn't end up looking like a damn fool after the season.

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

fan that dares to think we might have a decent season. Over time, it will suck the very life out of you.

 

[jamdawg96]

but I distinctly remember Andy Katz picking us to go to the Final Four a few years back ('04 I think) during the Selection Show Special on ESPN.

Hell, you know the rest of that story...

 

[Maroon Eagle]

... I don't believe a known coach would have been interested in the head coaching position.

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

nfm