Every win we've ever had over a team that finished ranked
- Thread starter QuaoarsKing
- Start date
This is based on the AP Poll, which goes back to 1936. So it won't include a game like the 1935 win over Army, which would likely be on it if the poll existed then. Also, it's based on the final AP Poll, rather than where a team was ranked at the time we played them, since we shouldn't get credit for a win over a team that turned out bad, and we should get credit for a team that turned out to be good, even if the voters didn't realize it at the time.
I'm also going to ignore forfeited/vacated games in either direction and rely solely on the results on the field. Tyler and Moorhead get credit for wins that we no longer claim; Sherril doesn't get a win that Alabama forfeited to us.
1941, #20 Alabama, Allyn McKeen
1941, #17 Ole Miss, Allyn McKeen
1942, #16 Auburn, Allyn McKeen
1945, #15 LSU, Allyn McKeen
1950, #4 Tennesssee, Arthur Morton
1952, #20 Kentucky, Murray Warmath
1957, #17 Florida, Wade Walker
1958, #18 Florida, Wade Walker
1963, #5 Auburn, Paul Davis
1970, #20 Ole Miss, Charles Shira
1976, #18 Kentucky, Bob Tyler
1977, #10 Washington, Bob Tyler
1980, #18 Miami (FL), Emory Bellard
1980, #6 Alabama, Emory Bellard
1982, #11 LSU, Emory Bellard
1984, #15 LSU, Emory Bellard
1992, #10 Florida, Jackie Sherrill
1994, #22 Tennesssee, Jackie Sherrill
1996, #11 Alabama, Jackie Sherrill
1997, #11 Auburn, Jackie Sherrill
1998, #16 Arkansas, Jackie Sherrill
1999, #22 Ole Miss, Jackie Sherrill
2000, #10 Florida, Jackie Sherrill
2000, #18 Auburn, Jackie Sherrill
2007, #15 Auburn, Sylvester Croom
2009, #20 Ole Miss, Dan Mullen
2014, #22 Auburn, Dan Mullen
2017, #18 LSU, Dan Mullen
2018, #16 Texas A&M, Joe Moorhead
2021, #20 NC State, Mike Leach
2021, #18 Kentucky, Mike Leach
We only have 4 seasons where we got more than one in a season:
2 - 1941, 1980, 2000, 2021
And by coach, sorted by percentage of games coached that were wins over ranked teams:
2/24 (8.3%) - Mike Leach
1/19 (5.3%) - Murray Warmath
8/152 (5.3%) - Jackie Sherrill
4/79 (5.1%) - Emory Bellard
4/87 (4.6%) - Allyn McKeen
1/26 (3.8%) - Joe Moorhead
1/27 (3.7%) - Arthur Morton
2/56 (3.6%) - Wade Walker
2/67 (3.0%) - Bob Tyler
3/115 (2.6%) - Dan Mullen
1/50 (2.0%) - Paul Davis
1/59 (1.7%) - Sylvester Croom
1/63 (1.6%) - Charles Shira
I'm also going to ignore forfeited/vacated games in either direction and rely solely on the results on the field. Tyler and Moorhead get credit for wins that we no longer claim; Sherril doesn't get a win that Alabama forfeited to us.
1941, #20 Alabama, Allyn McKeen
1941, #17 Ole Miss, Allyn McKeen
1942, #16 Auburn, Allyn McKeen
1945, #15 LSU, Allyn McKeen
1950, #4 Tennesssee, Arthur Morton
1952, #20 Kentucky, Murray Warmath
1957, #17 Florida, Wade Walker
1958, #18 Florida, Wade Walker
1963, #5 Auburn, Paul Davis
1970, #20 Ole Miss, Charles Shira
1976, #18 Kentucky, Bob Tyler
1977, #10 Washington, Bob Tyler
1980, #18 Miami (FL), Emory Bellard
1980, #6 Alabama, Emory Bellard
1982, #11 LSU, Emory Bellard
1984, #15 LSU, Emory Bellard
1992, #10 Florida, Jackie Sherrill
1994, #22 Tennesssee, Jackie Sherrill
1996, #11 Alabama, Jackie Sherrill
1997, #11 Auburn, Jackie Sherrill
1998, #16 Arkansas, Jackie Sherrill
1999, #22 Ole Miss, Jackie Sherrill
2000, #10 Florida, Jackie Sherrill
2000, #18 Auburn, Jackie Sherrill
2007, #15 Auburn, Sylvester Croom
2009, #20 Ole Miss, Dan Mullen
2014, #22 Auburn, Dan Mullen
2017, #18 LSU, Dan Mullen
2018, #16 Texas A&M, Joe Moorhead
2021, #20 NC State, Mike Leach
2021, #18 Kentucky, Mike Leach
We only have 4 seasons where we got more than one in a season:
2 - 1941, 1980, 2000, 2021
And by coach, sorted by percentage of games coached that were wins over ranked teams:
2/24 (8.3%) - Mike Leach
1/19 (5.3%) - Murray Warmath
8/152 (5.3%) - Jackie Sherrill
4/79 (5.1%) - Emory Bellard
4/87 (4.6%) - Allyn McKeen
1/26 (3.8%) - Joe Moorhead
1/27 (3.7%) - Arthur Morton
2/56 (3.6%) - Wade Walker
2/67 (3.0%) - Bob Tyler
3/115 (2.6%) - Dan Mullen
1/50 (2.0%) - Paul Davis
1/59 (1.7%) - Sylvester Croom
1/63 (1.6%) - Charles Shira
A grand total of 31 wins over teams that finished ranked.
Man . . . that is not good.
I did this same thing a couple months ago but included win-loss record vs final ranked teams. Could subtract that from the coach’s overall record to get nonranked and ranked records
I'm not sure this is the best way to look at it. Because the second number is total games coached. A better way to calculate this would be total games won against teams that finished ranked divided by total games played against teams that finished ranked.
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What's a good basis of comparison here? I mean does Alabama beat that many more teams who finish ranked every season? I guess they beat 4 this year, but I'd say it was an extraordinary year for them and a couple of the SECW teams they beat who ended up ranked.
I remember, but this is somehow more depressing visually. It's like looking down at my wang vs the shadow it casts on the wall.
It’s pretty rough. If I ever decide to kill myself, I’m going to make sure I read Sixpack one last time because I know there will be at least one thread that affirms my decision.
The Auburn "miracle comeback" is a huge positive for Leach. How are you counting it as a negative?
Not sure why you didn't simply use ranked when we beat them, but with all various eras of football and the fraudulent rankings of the past (see our Natty situation) it's all really just a steaming pile of poop.
These percentages are wildly misleading.
Dan mullen did not play against 115 teams that finished ranked. Nor has leach coached against 24.
Dan mullen did not play against 115 teams that finished ranked. Nor has leach coached against 24.
Because that's meaningless. Who cares what a team was ranked early on if they turned out to be mediocre or bad later on, like 2008 Vanderbilt or 2020 LSU. And if a team turned out to be pretty good, just the poll voters didn't realize it at the time, like 2007 Auburn, we should get credit.
I could see an argument where a team had a key injury and fell out of the top 25 without him by the end of the year, but they were ranked when we beat them with him, but that's a pretty rare scenario.
It's not "misleading" when I clearly and explicitly said what the percentage is: "percentage of games coached that were wins over ranked teams."
You can argue that this stat doesn't matter, but you weren't "misled" into thinking the numbers are something they're not.
And I would say the stat does matter, at least in the context of this board, considering how we spent the entire Mullen Era talking about it, with some even inventing a new stat of "top 20 wins" so his over 2014 Auburn wouldn't help him.
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I think he's saying you are using two different data sets. You say 'wins' and count those against teams who finished the season ranked... but the losses are not being counted against teams who finished the season ranked.
Leach 2020 was 0-3 versus teams ranked at the end of the year. Only Alabama, aTm and UGA were ranked and we lost all 3.
Leach 2021 was 2-3. Only Ark, Alabama, Ole Miss and UK were ranked. We beat UK & NCState. (edit. forgot about ACC/NCState)
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it just looks weird. Like you are saying all of this to scale against ranked teams and then you throw in their overall games. Would have made more sense to gauge it just against the w/l against ranked teams. it looks like you were skewing data to find a way to paint it in a way that helped your argument. commentary on Wins against ranked teams would have no real bearing on total games played against unranked teams...
Leach 2020 was 0-3 versus teams ranked at the end of the year. Only Alabama, aTm and UGA were ranked and we lost all 3.
Leach 2021 was 2-3. Only Ark, Alabama, Ole Miss and UK were ranked. We beat UK & NCState. (edit. forgot about ACC/NCState)
edit to add:
it just looks weird. Like you are saying all of this to scale against ranked teams and then you throw in their overall games. Would have made more sense to gauge it just against the w/l against ranked teams. it looks like you were skewing data to find a way to paint it in a way that helped your argument. commentary on Wins against ranked teams would have no real bearing on total games played against unranked teams...
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I don't know about 1941, but 1980 and 2000 are probably the most talented teams we've ever had, top to bottom. I would suspect 1941 was pretty damn good too, compared to its peers.
Hopefully that bodes well for 2022, since most of our 2021 talent is coming back. I think we all know that the 2021 team should have won more, and some of it could still be chalked up to learning a new system. I'm expect it to come together next year. I'm still surprised this transition from a Mullen run-based spread to a passing attack has been as good as it has been. I was expected a bottom-out year in there but it never came.
The question I'm answering is how often do we beat ranked teams, not what is our % against them. I don't have an "argument" that I'm trying to help, just satisfied a personal curiosity and decided to share it.
And regardless, it can't be misleading when what it is is clearly labeled. Nobody misunderstood and thought I was saying Mullen had a 3-112 record.
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Good teams find a way to win on the road. The final score is the only one that counts.
It's a poor data set. If you just wanted to show how often we beat ranked teams, you should have just listed each coach with their total number of wins agains ranked opponents, without including total number of games.
Because while, yes, most people would infer that it's total games coached, the way you list the data implies that the second number is total games against ranked opponents. You wrote that Leach was 2/24 (8.3%), which implies that the numerator and the deominator are referencing the same thing when they aren't.
The better way, as others have pointed out, would be to list it one of two ways:
Mike Leach - 2 wins against opponents who finished the year ranked.
- or -
Mike Leach - 2-6 in games against opponents who finished the year ranked.
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It's clearly labeled as "percentage of games coached that were wins over ranked teams." There is no implication otherwise, and nobody thinks our winning percentages would be that low.
If you want to see a different ranking, like W/L record against ranked teams, by all means compile and post it. I will warn you that it has its pitfalls. For example, we beat Texas A&M this year, but if we had lost to them, they would have finished ranked, and our record would he 2-4. But since we beat them, we don't move to 3-3, we move to 2-3.
Thanks, these will be stuck in my head all day now, and I barely know the chorus of each, so it will include a lot of mumbling.
And thanks for doing so as I had the same personal curiosity to help put the Leach experience in context. Obviously need a little bigger sample size for Leach but turns out from a "big win" perspective it's about the same over our history ... not a lot of them. Good news is when they happen it's a whole lotta fun. Now if we can cut out the clunkers against bad teams we'll be fun to watch and not scared to death which team is going to show up.
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