Expansion madness continues!

[18IsTheMan]

ACC vetting Stanford and Cal.

Meanwhile, the notion that Clemson and FSU will challenge the GOR is gaining steam. Clock is ticking for them notify ACC. Must notify them by 8/15.0

SEC has indicated they may now have interest in adding some ACC teams…cU, FSU, VT and GT.

Driving and can’t post links.

 

[KingWard]

Sources: ACC plans calls to discuss Cal, Stanford

ACC leaders are set to begin exploratory discussions on the potential additions of California and Stanford to the conference, sources told ESPN's Pete Thamel on Monday, but the scheduled calls are in the embryonic stages at the point.

www.espn.com

Awfully impractical and hard to make profitable, I would think.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

ACC vetting Stanford and Cal.

.

They just don't get it. AT ALL

Why would any school want to join a conference in that by so doing, you are agreeing to a GOR, that several current members are exploring ways to terminate or renegotiate the terms.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[18IsTheMan]

They just don't get it. AT ALL

Why would any school want to join a conference in that by so doing, you are agreeing to a GOR, that several current members are exploring ways to terminate or renegotiate the terms.

I guess ACC can offer them about as much as they would get from the Big Ten with the reduced revenue offer. But maybe not if adding those two teams dilutes the revenue more than they increase it. I don’t know. None of this makes any sense.

 

[KingWard]

I guess ACC can offer them about as much as they would get from the Big Ten with the reduced revenue offer. But maybe not if adding those two teams dilutes the revenue more than they increase it. I don’t know. None of this makes any sense.

Not at all. It is revealing, though. It reveals that the ACC is beginning to feel pinched - more than a little pinched.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Not at all. It is revealing, though. It reveals that the ACC is beginning to feel pinched - more than a little pinched.

Well, there is reported mutual interest. Beats me.

 

[KingWard]

Well, there is reported mutual interest. Beats me.

It's a testament to the desperation on one side (Pac 12 orphans) and the angst on the other (ACC).

 

[Lurker123]

It's a testament to the desperation on one side (Pac 12 orphans) and the angst on the other (ACC).

Just going off memory, but one article from a while back was saying the ACC couldn't add trams without opening the gor to renegotiations, and opening the window for escape for some schools.

No details, I'm going off memory from months ago.

 

[Rogue Cock]

ACC vetting Stanford and Cal.

Meanwhile, the notion that Clemson and FSU will challenge the GOR is gaining steam. Clock is ticking for them notify ACC. Must notify them by 8/15.0

SEC has indicated they may now have interest in adding some ACC teams…cU, FSU, VT and GT.

Driving and can’t post links.

Just as long as the SEC and ACC don't merge. Understand a merger would allow the resulting conference to pick and choose how many and which teams they would want.

 

[KingWard]

Just going off memory, but one article from a while back was saying the ACC couldn't add trams without opening the gor to renegotiations, and opening the window for escape for some schools.

No details, I'm going off memory from months ago.

Seems unlikely that they would make it easier for current teams to leave.

 

[Lurker123]

Seems unlikely that they would make it easier for current teams to leave.

One would think. I just recall this being about the acc being "stuck". It couldn't renegotiate the tv co tract without expanding and it couldn't expand without opening a window for some to leave.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Just going off memory, but one article from a while back was saying the ACC couldn't add trams without opening the gor to renegotiations, and opening the window for escape for some schools.

No details, I'm going off memory from months ago.

This was my thought, if adding more schools would open the grant of rights to renegotiation which would allow them to try to squeeze ESPN for more money. That could be enough to savethe conference, depending on how much money they can actually get for the product.

 

[Deleted11512]

They just don't get it. AT ALL

Why would any school want to join a conference in that by so doing, you are agreeing to a GOR, that several current members are exploring ways to terminate or renegotiate the terms.

Bc both sides are just that desperate.

 

[Deleted11512]

This was my thought, if adding more schools would open the grant of rights to renegotiation which would allow them to try to squeeze ESPN for more money. That could be enough to savethe conference, depending on how much money they can actually get for the product.

Yeah. Perhaps that could be their saving grace. Although I don’t know how much value Stanford and Cal bring to the table.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Yeah. Perhaps that could be their saving grace. Although I don’t know how much value Stanford and Cal bring to the table.

I can’t imagine it would be much

 

[18IsTheMan]

I guess it makes sense for the ACC if you consider having two teams in talent-rich California. Everyone was red alarm freaking out about the Big Ten adding teams in the southeast because of the recruiting aspect, so the same logic would apply there.

 

[gamecock stock]

Did you guys read "Dying on the ACC vine: what will Big 10, SEC do about FSU, Clemson and Miami?" that came out a couple of hours ago on the front page? Spoiler Alert: Not good for those 3 schools.

 

[Lurker123]

Did you guys read "Dying on the ACC vine: what will Big 10, SEC do about FSU, Clemson and Miami?" that came out a couple of hours ago on the front page? Spoiler Alert: Not good for those 3 schools.

I partake in wishful thinking often, but I try to recognize it when I'm doing it.

I have zero confidence those teams will be hung out to dry. It may take a couple years, but they will get a landing spot, imho.

 

[gamecock stock]

I partake in wishful thinking often, but I try to recognize it when I'm doing it.

I have zero confidence those teams will be hung out to dry. It may take a couple years, but they will get a landing spot, imho.

Thy could land somewhere. A good case was made in that article that it would not be in either the SEC or Big 10. As for me, I'm at the point where I'm fine regardless. If they were in the SEC, their easy path to the playoffs is over. If they are not, there are still disadvantages for them. It really does not matter to me. To get into the SEC, assuming there is no veto by a Florida, SC and Georgia, it would have to be monetarily advantageous for the current 16 members because the SEC is not a public charity. But, that article is enough to make for sleepless nights in Tallahassee and the upstate.

 

[18IsTheMan]

If it must happen, I wish we could just cut the chase, make 2 super-conferences and then have teams in those conferences play regionally.

I read an article a while back which predicted that as an outcome. All this expansion, shifting and maneuvering would lead to 2 super-conferences with teams playing regional opponents...basically what you had before expansion.

 

[gamecock stock]

If it must happen, I wish we could just cut the chase, make 2 super-conferences and then have teams in those conferences play regionally.

I read an article a while back which predicted that as an outcome. All this expansion, shifting and maneuvering would lead to 2 super-conferences with teams playing regional opponents...basically what you had before expansion.

We may have read the same article. It was a long, long time ago.

 

[18IsTheMan]

We may have read the same article. It was a long, long time ago.

I had read one some time ago, but there was another recently that speculated basically the same thing. The decision on expansion are 100% based on tv revenue which is 100% based on football. The reality is that college sports were regionalized for very practical reasons. And those reasons are immutable.

No consideration whatsoever was given for the non-revenue sports (which tells how much they care about the non-revenue sports). People brush the logistics aside ("they'll work themselves out') but there simply is no good solution to those non-revenue sports which play a lot of mid-week games and fly commercially. No amount of logistical strategizing can change the fact that you have schools located 3,000 miles apart.

The minimum distance between the pre-existing Big 10 schools and the new additions will be 1,500 miles. By comparison, prior to their expansion, the maximum distanced between Big 10 members was 1,300 miles. Now the max distance is 3,000 miles.

On top of that you have the fact that most of these affected kids are actual student-athletes, not the football players who live a pampered life. They actually have to go to class, write papers, do homework, take tests, pass classes, etc. You're gonna be flying kids across 2 time zones and back again in the middle of the week while expecting them to get up and go to class and carry on studies and practice all while dealing with jet lag. Utterly miserable.

Expansion is a very short-sighted decision, to say the least.

Aside from the student-athlete aspect, there is the fan aspect, which is quite a distant second concern. But how many PSU fans will really be able to make the trip out to Eugene, OR? I don't know how/why fans continue to put up with it. But we just keep forking over our dough like mindless drones.

 

[KingWard]

If it must happen, I wish we could just cut the chase, make 2 super-conferences and then have teams in those conferences play regionally.

I read an article a while back which predicted that as an outcome. All this expansion, shifting and maneuvering would lead to 2 super-conferences with teams playing regional opponents...basically what you had before expansion.

Maybe it's just a phase in the life cycle of business. Remember all the mergers and acquisitions before and during the recession of 2008. Still some of that going now. As an example, not a materially different number of banking locations after than before (though some locations closed due to superfluousness) but fewer brands as the weaker were absorbed by the stronger, or as firms combined to assure mutual survival. This is turning into a version of the same thing, appears to me.

 

[Deleted11512]

Did you guys read "Dying on the ACC vine: what will Big 10, SEC do about FSU, Clemson and Miami?" that came out a couple of hours ago on the front page? Spoiler Alert: Not good for those 3 schools.

Interesting. I can't see them just going away, even if they have to weather the storm until 2036. Sure, they'll be at a financial disadvantage, but that doesn't mean they still won't play sports. The biggest issue they'll have is this. I heard McMurphy on the Fan Upstate last night talking about how folks in the industry believe that schools will be forces to share TV revenue with the players in the near future. That obviously bodes well for the SEC/B10. But outside of that, I honestly don't see what the big deal is. Sure, we'll have more money....a lot more money. But Clem will have a rubber stamp to the playoff every year. I'd change places with that in a heartbeat.

Having said that, IF Clem/FSU/Miami were to die on the vine, the SEC would become that much more valuable to ESPN b/c they'd own every state in the southeast except NC/VA (which they could easily rectify). So it's an interesting strategy to say the least.

 

[Deleted11512]

If it must happen, I wish we could just cut the chase, make 2 super-conferences and then have teams in those conferences play regionally.

I read an article a while back which predicted that as an outcome. All this expansion, shifting and maneuvering would lead to 2 super-conferences with teams playing regional opponents...basically what you had before expansion.

Yeah, I think that's where it's heading. But you can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs. 2 super conferences with 4 divisions in each, like the NFL. At the end of the day, there's a good chance the product will be better than what we've had. But it's going to be messy getting there.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I cannot imagine any scenario where Clemson's and FSU's football programs go away. FSU, for all their recent struggles, is still a major brand.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Yeah, I think that's where it's heading. But you can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs. 2 super conferences with 4 divisions in each, like the NFL. At the end of the day, there's a good chance the product will be better than what we've had. But it's going to be messy getting there.

I just posted the below in another thread. This used to seem like a far-fetched notion, but now seems the clear and obvious direction it's heading.

 

[Deleted11512]

Maybe it's just a phase in the life cycle of business. Remember all the mergers and acquisitions before and during the recession of 2008. Still some of that going now. As an example, not a materially different number of banking locations after than before (though some locations closed due to superfluousness) but fewer brands as the weaker were absorbed by the stronger, or as firms combined to assure mutual survival. This is turning into a version of the same thing, appears to me.

Spot on. I've ran M&A integrations throughout my career...NONE of them went as planned and NONE were easy, no matter the size. This stuff is no different. There's a plan, there's a strategy. It may not seem like it, but somehow it will all come together.

 

[Deleted11512]

I just posted the below in another thread. This used to seem like a far-fetched notion, but now seems the clear and obvious direction it's heading.

Ouch. Can we trade with Clem?? Sheesh.

I do think once this happens the two conferences will work together on a media deal like the NFL. It makes no sense for them to compete with each other. Make the networks compete for one product.

 

[Deleted11512]

I cannot imagine any scenario where Clemson's and FSU's football programs go away. FSU, for all their recent struggles, is still a major brand.

I can't either. But we are not TV execs.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Ouch. Can we trade with Clem?? Sheesh.

I do think once this happens the two conferences will work together on a media deal like the NFL. It makes no sense for them to compete with each other. Make the networks compete for one product.

I'm surprised he thinks we would make the 28-team cut. Quite surprised actually.

 

[Deleted11512]

I'm surprised he thinks we would make the 28-team cut. Quite surprised actually.

Attendance helps. TV ratings were really good before we tanked with Champ. This was written before the disastrous 2019 season. So maybe it seemed like we were rebounding from the end of the HBC era. It would be cool to see a relegation type setup though. Bottom 3 get relegated to the next level, top 3 get promoted to the premier group.

 

[KingWard]

I cannot imagine any scenario where Clemson's and FSU's football programs go away. FSU, for all their recent struggles, is still a major brand.

And will be. Even the great brands became that way largely because they had generational coaches. Generational coaches are hard for ANY school to replace. Notre Dame, Alabama, Texas, Michigan - they've all had lulls. UPC also after Ford. Bobby Bowden was one of those generational coaches and it's largely a matter of fit. Those football schools are very prone to reinvent themselves, given time. It's part of their cultures. FSU and UPC will always find a way, I truly believe.

 

[gamecock stock]

Interesting. I can't see them just going away, even if they have to weather the storm until 2036. Sure, they'll be at a financial disadvantage, but that doesn't mean they still won't play sports. The biggest issue they'll have is this. I heard McMurphy on the Fan Upstate last night talking about how folks in the industry believe that schools will be forces to share TV revenue with the players in the near future. That obviously bodes well for the SEC/B10. But outside of that, I honestly don't see what the big deal is. Sure, we'll have more money....a lot more money. But Clem will have a rubber stamp to the playoff every year. I'd change places with that in a heartbeat.

Having said that, IF Clem/FSU/Miami were to die on the vine, the SEC would become that much more valuable to ESPN b/c they'd own every state in the southeast except NC/VA (which they could easily rectify). So it's an interesting strategy to say the least.

I've read it takes 6 schools to leave and thus dissolve the GOR.

Consequently, a group could leave and form a new conference, in good TV markets and leave the ACC on the vine. Why is there no discussion of that? My guess is that there is discussion of that. I suspect some are holding out hope for a SEC invitation.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I've read it takes 6 schools to leave and thus dissolve the GOR.

Consequently, a group could leave and form a new conference, in good TV markets and leave the ACC on the vine. Why is there no discussion of that? My guess is that there is discussion of that. I suspect some are holding out hope for a SEC invitation.

If that scenario could be achieved, I think you'd need 8 to make a majority of the 14 teams (not counting ND). The major question is: are there 8 desirable teams from the ACC? If you could find a landing spot, it would push either the Big 10 or the SEC, or both, to over 20 teams.

Once you get past Clemson and FSU, it's toss-up of who would be desirable.

A second tier might include Miami, UNC, UVA.

 

[Deleted11512]

I've read it takes 6 schools to leave and thus dissolve the GOR.

Consequently, a group could leave and form a new conference, in good TV markets and leave the ACC on the vine. Why is there no discussion of that? My guess is that there is discussion of that. I suspect some are holding out hope for a SEC invitation.

It would be 8 at a minimum, and that's not a guarantee. It all depends on how the ACC is setup and how it applies to NC statutes. I've read some pieces that say that statute that calls for a simple majority to dissolve a corp does not apply to the ACC, and that it would most like require a 3/4 vote.

If that's what it took, and they allegedly had that back at the ACC meetings, they could have done it. But they didn't, the "magnificent 7" talk died, and they all got in line with a new unequal distribution model. Why? Bc they know they're stuck for the foreseeable future.

 

[KingWard]

I've read it takes 6 schools to leave and thus dissolve the GOR.

Consequently, a group could leave and form a new conference, in good TV markets and leave the ACC on the vine. Why is there no discussion of that? My guess is that there is discussion of that. I suspect some are holding out hope for a SEC invitation.

Don't you think if that were the case, it already would have happened, or at least was imminent?

 

[gamecock stock]

It would be 8 at a minimum, and that's not a guarantee. It all depends on how the ACC is setup and how it applies to NC statutes. I've read some pieces that say that statute that calls for a simple majority to dissolve a corp does not apply to the ACC, and that it would most like require a 3/4 vote.

If that's what it took, and they allegedly had that back at the ACC meetings, they could have done it. But they didn't, the "magnificent 7" talk died, and they all got in line with a new unequal distribution model. Why? Bc they know they're stuck for the foreseeable future.

Then, they are stuck because a SEC invite seems unlikely.

I always figured that Florida and South Carolina would form a silent pact to keep FSU and Clemson out. The more I think about it, Georgia has every reason in the world to keep out Clemson as well.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Then, they are stuck because a SEC invite seems unlikely.

I always figured that Florida and South Carolina would form a silent pact to keep FSU and Clemson out. The more I think about it, Georgia has every reason in the world to keep out Clemson as well.

Sankey told A&M to shut up and take it when the league added Texas.