Eye Opening Article- It’s pretty clear Sandusky is most likely Innocent
- Thread starter Open Mind 1
- Start date
All this has been known for years. Doesn't really change anything.
This schit is too funny....and the Grinning Baboon continues to rot in prison, which is as it should be.
And yet the hero isn't much in the way of character either. Not a lot to choose from in this situation obviously.
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you lost me at Ziegler...
Not discounting his research or investigative prowess, moreso his hubris shrouded in modestly that really rubs me the wrong way
Not discounting his research or investigative prowess, moreso his hubris shrouded in modestly that really rubs me the wrong way
Maybe Barry wil distribute copies of this report to the other trustees for discussion at the next bot meeting. 
The bot would sooner dig up the old, crazy local that used to take a red sharpie to the newspapers being sold downtown, and listen to what he has to say about it.Maybe Barry wil distribute copies of this report to the other trustees for discussion at the next bot meeting.
This doesn't address what MM told his dad and Dr. Dranov, who told him to report to Paterno the next day, which they say he did. The date mix-up doesn't matter if MM went the next day to Paterno, whichever day that is, since the article wants to suggest a delay in reporting the incident means whatever MM saw wasn't serious and that he was only going to Paterno about a job. There are a lot of things to pick apart about Sandusky, mainly the lack of any real hard evidence against him, but this date stuff is flimsy IMO.
One thing is for sure, there are a bunch of liars involved in this whole thing.
Conrad questioned Dranov about his status as a mandated reporter of suspected child abuse because he is a physician. Dranov said because of what McQueary described and because he was not a witness to it, the incident was not a mandated report.
Asked if he thought it was “bad enough” to call police or child welfare agencies that night, Dranov said no.
“I don’t want to give the implication I didn’t think it was a serious incident,” Dranov said. “I did. I followed up to make sure he reported it.“
Dranov urged McQueary to report the incident to his supervisor, which he understood to be Penn State’s procedures.
McQueary reported the incident to Joe Paterno the next morning, and Paterno reported it to then-Athletic Director Tim Curley and Schultz, who spoke with McQueary but dispute that he told them anything sexual had occurred. Among McQueary’s lawsuit claims is that Curley and Schultz misrepresented what they would do with the information he gave them.
One thing is for sure, there are a bunch of liars involved in this whole thing.
Conrad questioned Dranov about his status as a mandated reporter of suspected child abuse because he is a physician. Dranov said because of what McQueary described and because he was not a witness to it, the incident was not a mandated report.
Asked if he thought it was “bad enough” to call police or child welfare agencies that night, Dranov said no.
“I don’t want to give the implication I didn’t think it was a serious incident,” Dranov said. “I did. I followed up to make sure he reported it.“
Dranov urged McQueary to report the incident to his supervisor, which he understood to be Penn State’s procedures.
McQueary reported the incident to Joe Paterno the next morning, and Paterno reported it to then-Athletic Director Tim Curley and Schultz, who spoke with McQueary but dispute that he told them anything sexual had occurred. Among McQueary’s lawsuit claims is that Curley and Schultz misrepresented what they would do with the information he gave them.
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So this was all about MM. Wasn't Sandusky acquitted on all the charges stemming from MM incident? If so, then all this is irrelevant at this point and changes nothing. Nothing is ever going change around this case.
Well, you have to go back to the Grand Jury and that particular MM false testimony as well - or there wouldn't have been a trial at all. And no "scandal". That was where Big Red got in over his head. It wasn't the body building/porn message board stuff (where this all originated) - that's just talk. This was his point of no return.
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And the story is that McQueary was distraught when telling his father and Dranov. And according to Paterno, still disturbed when McQueary spoke to him. Would that have been the case months later? I wouldn’t think so.
Sort of the whole point is that none of the dates match up. If I accuse you of a crime I better have the date right b/c you could be playing Pebble or Pine Valley that weekend.
Exact dates are pretty difficult 10 years later.
I’m not trying to excuse McQueary. I don’t really trust him and if all these other people screwed up by not reporting it, he is the most culpable by far.
Well,
He wouldn't be in prison if he just complied with the out come of the 1998 investigation suggesting he stay away from showering with kids. To top it off, he was red flagged by the woman psychologist (Chambers ??) as a potential pedofile.
The date stuff isn’t flimsy, if you really can confirm that McQuery waited weeks to talk with Paterno it speaks volumes that he didn’t see what he thought was abuse. The problem, you can’t 100% confirm it, though Zigler does a pretty solid job of explaining why it wasn’t the night before.
I’ve always had a problem that he didn’t flat out confront Sandusky or go straight to the police with it, if he truly thought he saw a kid being abused. I think most people the size of Big Red would (at least confront Sandusky), even if they were really shook up by it. I would think you’d make sure the kid was OK.
JMO, I think Big Red thought Sandusky showering in Lasch with a kid when no one else was around, was absolutely inappropriate and a lot of going to Joe was to say. “Sandusky is showering kids in Lasch. I don’t like it and its basically a liability. See I’m a good camper, and I want to protect the program.” Basically, Red is lining himself up for a job, and I've believed this long before ever reading anything from Zigler.
Forget viewing Sandusky as a pedo, because his actions (especially if delayed by weeks) don’t appear as to view him as such. Its more about, any people who want to use those facilities, shouldn’t be allowed to while bringing in people you don’t know. Thats just asking for trouble. There is a reason Joe didn’t want Sandusky have access to those facilities when he retired.
I think big Red became convinced that he saw more than he really did, when the state got a hold of him and said, “Here is what you saw. Sandusky abuses kids.”
I’ve always had a problem that he didn’t flat out confront Sandusky or go straight to the police with it, if he truly thought he saw a kid being abused. I think most people the size of Big Red would (at least confront Sandusky), even if they were really shook up by it. I would think you’d make sure the kid was OK.
JMO, I think Big Red thought Sandusky showering in Lasch with a kid when no one else was around, was absolutely inappropriate and a lot of going to Joe was to say. “Sandusky is showering kids in Lasch. I don’t like it and its basically a liability. See I’m a good camper, and I want to protect the program.” Basically, Red is lining himself up for a job, and I've believed this long before ever reading anything from Zigler.
Forget viewing Sandusky as a pedo, because his actions (especially if delayed by weeks) don’t appear as to view him as such. Its more about, any people who want to use those facilities, shouldn’t be allowed to while bringing in people you don’t know. Thats just asking for trouble. There is a reason Joe didn’t want Sandusky have access to those facilities when he retired.
I think big Red became convinced that he saw more than he really did, when the state got a hold of him and said, “Here is what you saw. Sandusky abuses kids.”
I don't think anyone can say anything other than, "Sandusky had boundary issues with kids, at a minimum." Thats a given, and without that there is no way he is in jail.
Really good take, especially the part about failing to take action... i have always said he either witnessed child assault and did nothing (coward) or he saw something troublesome but not criminal and reported it. I have to believe it is the latter
One of the things that JZ was good at pointing out was that there are times/events in your life where you never forget when they took place.
The not so meaningful, maybe not.
Ziegler, and those of you that blindly accept everything he says, is no better at drawing conclusions from data than Louis Freeh. And believe me, that's saying something. He tries to piece together a narrative to meet a desired and predetermined conclusion and it doesn't work. When there are possible holes in the story, he simply glosses over them with nary a mention. Ziegler lost all credibility the second he said that Jerry is innocent because after meeting with him in prison Ziegler, untrained in investigations or human behavior, determined that Jerry didn't have any "consciousness of guilt." OK, whatever.
Whenever this comes up (far too often IMO) there's always tons of critical analysis and debate over all the minutiae that can possibly clear Jerry because that's the one and only way the Paterno legacy ever gets restored in the eyes of the public (spoiler alert - never going to happen). But that same level of critique and critical analysis over Ziegler's content, and these other "reporters" that proclaim Sandusky's innocence, always seems to be absent. Interesting.
Even if 100% of this is true, Zeigler is still not disputing that Sandusky took a kid into the showers at night when campus was quiet and nobody was around, even after Sandusky had been investigated and warned by police about this in 1998. There are obvious signs that he has major, major problems in terms of boundaries with kids.
Whenever this comes up (far too often IMO) there's always tons of critical analysis and debate over all the minutiae that can possibly clear Jerry because that's the one and only way the Paterno legacy ever gets restored in the eyes of the public (spoiler alert - never going to happen). But that same level of critique and critical analysis over Ziegler's content, and these other "reporters" that proclaim Sandusky's innocence, always seems to be absent. Interesting.
Even if 100% of this is true, Zeigler is still not disputing that Sandusky took a kid into the showers at night when campus was quiet and nobody was around, even after Sandusky had been investigated and warned by police about this in 1998. There are obvious signs that he has major, major problems in terms of boundaries with kids.
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Not that it means anything, but didn't JoePa tell the school he did not want Sandusky to have access to school facilities and they gave him some sort of emeritus status anyway ? My memory fades with age.
I don't know if Sandusky is guilty or not. Certainly he exercised poor judgment on many occasions.
What I do know is that his trial was a sham. Everyone should admit this. 3 innocent PSU administrators were railroaded as well.
What I do know is that his trial was a sham. Everyone should admit this. 3 innocent PSU administrators were railroaded as well.
Yes he did in fact do so. Also, the Emeritus status was a push from someone or a group of trustees. No doubt they distanced themselves from this by firing JoePa and Graham.
Pretty much agree with your take about what Magic Mike actually saw and what he told others in the immediate aftermath.
I believe that years later Magic Mke concocted the story about witnessing the Grinning Baboon cornholing a kid in a chatroom session where everyone was trying to one-up everyone else. Once he put it out, there was no way for him to reel it back.
Is there evidence that Jerry showered with Second Mile kids after the "warning?" Because if speculation is correct, Alan Meyer was living with Jerry and around 14 at the time of the incident. It's my honest question.
I agree that Jerry certainly has boundary issues at the very least. Poor judgement as well. But it's another level to accuse him of anally raping 12 year olds in his family room for years.......and week after week. Forgive me if I'm skeptical on that. PS all this endless sex with a withered sex organ. He must have borrowed tongs.
True. IIRC there was a document outlining the agreement with JS where Joe wrote no.
True. Thing is there were a lot of posters on the boards, at that time, that knew the timelines didn't match up, even before the stupid Rudy TV story.
I'm just glad no one is taking about it and everyone's forgotten it...2 years later.
"This will be forgotten in two months".....AN THE BEAT GOES ONI'm just glad no one is taking about it and everyone's forgotten it...2 years later.
I'd like to slit her neck like Preparing a Christmas goose
Dislike her all you want, but this is highly inappropriate. Where are the mods to delete this kind of stuff?
The man deserves another hearing. Too many doubts have crept in. The signed petition contains a "who's who" of PSU legends
Yes, Alan was a teenager and basically part of the family, which is why Jerry didn’t think anything of it. He is pictured in the article with Jerry at his own wedding, in Marine uniform, which makes that argument even more laughable.
YES, so do I.........All ClassI miss that Penn State logo.
now we have a goofy looking logo
