Football Staff Organization and Roster Management

[blion72]

Just saw that MSU has picked up 11 players from transfer portal, and had quite a few last year. Their coach was interviewed on BTN on this and talked about his staff that is dedicated to the transfer portal. Clearly a focus.

Given the situation with the transfer portal, the the one time instant eligibility rule and NIL, everyone needs to modify their football office to almost look like an NFL franchise - i.e. player draft and free agency with deliberate roster management plans. It feels like every school is going to need to modify and/or increase their staff to handle a much more complex roster management issue.

I am not saying this is a good thing, but to survive it seems you now have to change your staff to deal with this new world.

 

[Bison13]

Just saw that MSU has picked up 11 players from transfer portal, and had quite a few last year. Their coach was interviewed on BTN on this and talked about his staff that is dedicated to the transfer portal. Clearly a focus.

Given the situation with the transfer portal, the the one time instant eligibility rule and NIL, everyone needs to modify their football office to almost look like an NFL franchise - i.e. player draft and free agency with deliberate roster management plans. It feels like every school is going to need to modify and/or increase their staff to handle a much more complex roster management issue.

I am not saying this is a good thing, but to survive it seems you now have to change your staff to deal with this new world.

Don't disagree with the idea of having a person directly charge of the portal but with as many as Michigan state has gotten the last two years it's starting to feel to me like they've been in contact with some of these kids before they hit the portal.

 

[GregInPitt]

Just saw that MSU has picked up 11 players from transfer portal, and had quite a few last year. Their coach was interviewed on BTN on this and talked about his staff that is dedicated to the transfer portal. Clearly a focus.

Given the situation with the transfer portal, the the one time instant eligibility rule and NIL, everyone needs to modify their football office to almost look like an NFL franchise - i.e. player draft and free agency with deliberate roster management plans. It feels like every school is going to need to modify and/or increase their staff to handle a much more complex roster management issue.

I am not saying this is a good thing, but to survive it seems you now have to change your staff to deal with this new world.

Not sure why anyone would believe that Franklin has not long ago adapted his staff to track and recruit the transfer portal. How do you think Ebikitie, Dixon, Tangelo and others ended up at PSU?

But the reason MSU is now relying on the transfer portal more than PSU is that MSU did not recruit the high end talent out of high school that Franklin has over the last 5 years. Franklin is probably pretty happy sticking with his returning RB's, Allen and Singleton rather than going to the portal for a RB. MSU has a lot more holes to fill. And likewise, Bama, GA, Clemson, and oh-high-ya are not as active in the transfer portal as MSU is either.

 

[blion72]

Not sure why anyone would believe that Franklin has not long ago adapted his staff to track and recruit the transfer portal. How do you think Ebikitie, Dixon, Tangelo and others ended up at PSU?

But the reason MSU is now relying on the transfer portal more than PSU is that MSU did not recruit the high end talent out of high school that Franklin has over the last 5 years. Franklin is probably pretty happy sticking with his returning RB's, Allen and Singleton rather than going to the portal for a RB. MSU has a lot more holes to fill. And likewise, Bama, GA, Clemson, and oh-high-ya are not as active in the transfer portal as MSU is either.

Greg your point is what I am getting at. We need to be doing both and at any point be able to optimize the roster. I didn't suggest that we go all transfers (i.e. the NFL version of free agents) as we can have a good group of high end recruits (i.e. draftees). balancing the roster at any point seems like a much tougher work load on the staff. How Sparty can get transfers so quickly when they hit the portal is amazing. I don't think you are allowed to be having conversations with players on other rosters before they are processed from their current team to go into the transfer population.

 

[GregInPitt]

Greg your point is what I am getting at. We need to be doing both and at any point be able to optimize the roster. I didn't suggest that we go all transfers (i.e. the NFL version of free agents) as we can have a good group of high end recruits (i.e. draftees). balancing the roster at any point seems like a much tougher work load on the staff. How Sparty can get transfers so quickly when they hit the portal is amazing. I don't think you are allowed to be having conversations with players on other rosters before they are processed from their current team to go into the transfer population.

Why do you believe that Franklin is not doing what he can to optimize his roster? Do you believe Franklin would want the transfers that MSU has gotten committed so quickly? I do not. Franklin seems to have had pretty good success in bringing in players of character, that form a unified roster, with minimal bad apples. If Franklin has not done due diligence on available transfer portal players he won't offer them until he does, and I hope he sticks to that strategy the same way he tries to make sure high school players have the character he values before he offers them.

Franklin has adjusted his staff. But he will not take transfers that are not better than what he has on his roster. MSU obviously has cleared much more room on their roster in order to take a boat load of transfers, whereas Franklin has better talent already on his roster and just a few positions where a talented transfer can actually contribute.

And the byproduct of taking so many transfers is that there will be more of the H.S. recruits that MSU recruited choosing to move on as some of them are displaced on the depth chart by the transfers that just sashayed into the program. I don't believe Franklin wants that to be a characteristic of his program, and I'm happy it is not. The nucleus of vast majority of top 10 programs will still be recruited and developed from high school recruits.

MSU took Berger at RB from Wisky, likely an impact player for them. I sure like Berger as a RB, although he may have some baggage from his fall from grace at Wisky and subsequent exit. But I sure am glad that Franklin did not bring in Berger to PSU, and that Franklin and his staff instead recruited and have coming in Singleton and Allen to compliment the talented but so far underachieving RB room at PSU.

If MSU's RB room is so thin on talent that they had to get their starting RB directly from the portal that is not a compliment to their staff's RB recruiting the past few years. And going into the off season, what if there was not a RB as talented as Berger available, or what if they struck out on him or the other's that may or may not come along?

Top 10 programs are not bringing in 11 transfers from the transfer portal. The exception may be when a new coach comes in, cleans house, and then has to restock his roster with upper classmen to put a somewhat competitive team on the field in short order as he builds his program through talented high school recruiting. Like USC this off season, possibly. MSU was not a top 10 team last season, even though they struck gold with a couple of their transfers. How many of their transfers were duds? One of PSU's worst teams of the last 10 years played them even up in their place.

This is not as complicated as you seem to be attempting to make it.

 

[danvillenit]

Not sure why anyone would believe that Franklin has not long ago adapted his staff to track and recruit the transfer portal. How do you think Ebikitie, Dixon, Tangelo and others ended up at PSU?

But the reason MSU is now relying on the transfer portal more than PSU is that MSU did not recruit the high end talent out of high school that Franklin has over the last 5 years. Franklin is probably pretty happy sticking with his returning RB's, Allen and Singleton rather than going to the portal for a RB. MSU has a lot more holes to fill. And likewise, Bama, GA, Clemson, and oh-high-ya are not as active in the transfer portal as MSU is either.

I know PSU wanted the MLB from UNLV that signed with MSU as soon as he hit the portal. Nice to mention RB but we have holes such as LB and I believe MSU has signed three so far.

I certainly prefer the HS model but if MSU makes noise again this year it’s going to really open some eyes about the portal model.

 

[PSUJam]

I know PSU wanted the MLB from UNLV that signed with MSU as soon as he hit the portal. Nice to mention RB but we have holes such as LB and I believe MSU has signed three so far.

I certainly prefer the HS model but if MSU makes noise again this year it’s going to really open some eyes about the portal model.

Unfortunately now it comes down to how much are we willing to pay them.

 

[canuckhal]

Why do you believe that Franklin is not doing what he can to optimize his roster? Do you believe Franklin would want the transfers that MSU has gotten committed so quickly? I do not. Franklin seems to have had pretty good success in bringing in players of character, that form a unified roster, with minimal bad apples. If Franklin has not done due diligence on available transfer portal players he won't offer them until he does, and I hope he sticks to that strategy the same way he tries to make sure high school players have the character he values before he offers them.

Franklin has adjusted his staff. But he will not take transfers that are not better than what he has on his roster. MSU obviously has cleared much more room on their roster in order to take a boat load of transfers, whereas Franklin has better talent already on his roster and just a few positions where a talented transfer can actually contribute.

And the byproduct of taking so many transfers is that there will be more of the H.S. recruits that MSU recruited choosing to move on as some of them are displaced on the depth chart by the transfers that just sashayed into the program. I don't believe Franklin wants that to be a characteristic of his program, and I'm happy it is not. The nucleus of vast majority of top 10 programs will still be recruited and developed from high school recruits.

MSU took Berger at RB from Wisky, likely an impact player for them. I sure like Berger as a RB, although he may have some baggage from his fall from grace at Wisky and subsequent exit. But I sure am glad that Franklin did not bring in Berger to PSU, and that Franklin and his staff instead recruited and have coming in Singleton and Allen to compliment the talented but so far underachieving RB room at PSU.

If MSU's RB room is so thin on talent that they had to get their starting RB directly from the portal that is not a compliment to their staff's RB recruiting the past few years. And going into the off season, what if there was not a RB as talented as Berger available, or what if they struck out on him or the other's that may or may not come along?

Top 10 programs are not bringing in 11 transfers from the transfer portal. The exception may be when a new coach comes in, cleans house, and then has to restock his roster with upper classmen to put a somewhat competitive team on the field in short order as he builds his program through talented high school recruiting. Like USC this off season, possibly. MSU was not a top 10 team last season, even though they struck gold with a couple of their transfers. How many of their transfers were duds? One of PSU's worst teams of the last 10 years played them even up in their place.

This is not as complicated as you seem to be attempting to make it.

Here is the rub. Franklin doesn't like the portal. He has said he is a coach to mentor young kids into men in three areas: football, community service, and academics. He isn't all in on the portal because he wants to mold high school kids and have them for 3-5 years.

If you look at the top players in the portal, Penn State doesn't have any.

He is on record as saying Penn State will be slower in offering and will do a lot of research before offering.

With so many misses with high school recruits, he should revisit, but hey, he doesn't have anything to worry about for another 8 or so years.

 

[Bison13]

I know PSU wanted the MLB from UNLV that signed with MSU as soon as he hit the portal. Nice to mention RB but we have holes such as LB and I believe MSU has signed three so far.

I certainly prefer the HS model but if MSU makes noise again this year it’s going to really open some eyes about the portal model.

Yeah that's one of the guys that I was referring to with my comment earlier in this thread about Michigan State having some talks with these kids before they are in the portal

 

[GregInPitt]

I know PSU wanted the MLB from UNLV that signed with MSU as soon as he hit the portal. Nice to mention RB but we have holes such as LB and I believe MSU has signed three so far.

I certainly prefer the HS model but if MSU makes noise again this year it’s going to really open some eyes about the portal model.

Mentioned the RB because MSU hit the jackpot last year with the RB they brought in that dominated the B10, plus they got a petty good one this year if his baggage is not too heavy.

The Portal is a crapshoot. How do we know what the LB you mentioned had for priorities. Maybe he just plain didn't want to go all the way to PA after playing at UNLV. Lots more quality LB's coming out of H.S. every year than there are out of the Portal, and some of them are actually in PSU's core recruiting area. I'm not discounting what can be done by getting a couple of contributors from the portal, but relying on it is not a plan for long term success of the level that PSU fans expect. And if PSU would have gotten another LB in the 2022 class, one of the top LB that also could have been enrolled right now, LB might not be a portal priority at all. But unfortunately, right now PSU is short on LB experience and numbers. Believing that there is a sure fire plug and play solution in the portal may not be realistic, and second guessing the staff over every portal player that goes somewhere else, without knowing what the staff really thought, is in my opinion also not fair or rational thinking. Same goes for OT and the DL. Maybe there are no Ebiketie's or Tangelo's available, or that really want to come to PSU. Gotta believe Franklin & Co. are trying, but there won't be clean fits every year for what PSU needs, with the talent to come in and make a splash every year.

 

[LookSharp]

The Portal is a crapshoot.

Most def. But sometimes you must roll the dice in order to make-up for errors in recruiting. No, we are not in Michigan State's situation (thank God), but discount player free agency and we soon will be.

I'm not discounting what can be done by getting a couple of contributors from the portal, but relying on it is not a plan for long term success of the level that PSU fans expect.

And what long-term success might that be? Competing for a Big Ten championship every 5 or 6 years? I don't think so! I don't know about you but I want a NC, as I suspect most PSU fans do. Look, in these days of player free agency there's no excuse rolling into Iowa City without a competent back-up QB. Face it. Franklin whiffed on QB recruiting. What better way to make up for it than tapping free agency. Check other schools' rosters for transfers. There are plenty out there, some of whom could've gotten us into the red zone in the 2nd half against Iowa. What an embarrassment!

Believing that there is a sure fire plug and play solution in the portal may not be realistic, and second guessing the staff over every portal player that goes somewhere else, without knowing what the staff really thought, is in my opinion also not fair or rational thinking.

Funny how NFL GMs operate and thrive on that very 'plug and play' model, which is the OP's point. College football has changed for better or for worse. It's either adapt or die because other programs besides Michigan State are adapting. They are adapting with the staffing and the NIL money.

 

[marshall23]

Wanting a NC puts the PSU fan base in the same column as 64 other P5 fan bases. Win games, win the portal and win every recruiting battle....or else!
With college football experiencing it's greatest changes ever, who knows what the correct approach is (with apologies to all the experts who post here.)? The cost of plug and play from the portal, has been the #1 recruit in the class of 2021 for MSU. Imagine the **** storm here, if pandering to the portal cost PSU Allar or Singleton?
The reality may be that PSU will not have the $$$$ to sign free agents over some rivals. I don't know that to be true......but I do know it's no longer about anything else. This is minor league football. Better than minor league baseball....as players are better fed, housed, educated and now paid. Perhaps, I'm the only one.....but I do have my suspicions about the sudden success and popularity of football in East Lansing.

 

[GregInPitt]

Most def. But sometimes you must roll the dice in order to make-up for errors in recruiting. No, we are not in Michigan State's situation (thank God), but discount player free agency and we soon will be.

And what long-term success might that be? Competing for a Big Ten championship every 5 or 6 years? I don't think so! I don't know about you but I want a NC, as I suspect most PSU fans do. Look, in these days of player free agency there's no excuse rolling into Iowa City without a competent back-up QB. Face it. Franklin whiffed on QB recruiting. What better way to make up for it than tapping free agency. Check other schools' rosters for transfers. There are plenty out there, some of whom could've gotten us into the red zone in the 2nd half against Iowa. What an embarrassment!

Funny how NFL GMs operate and thrive on that very 'plug and play' model, which is the OP's point. College football has changed for better or for worse. It's either adapt or die because other programs besides Michigan State are adapting. They are adapting with the staffing and the NIL money.

The long term success as I already stated, is the success that PSU fans are expecting. We all know what has actually happened, and are here discussing how to possibly right the ship.

Regarding portal QB's, competent QB's don't go from the portal to be backups to 3 year starting QB's with other QB's on the roster that likely had higher ratings than the portal QB and that have already been in the new team's system for a year or more. If Fields was available in the Spring of 2021 I'm not sure he would be a candidate to come to PSU with Clifford entrenched. Fits for portal QB's, especially at PSU where Franklin has shown loyalty to seniors and returning starter, are hard to find and hard to predict. Portal players move on for playing time, which is why most QB's, the position where only one usually plays, move down a level in competition.

And I don't believe Franklin has "whiffed" on QB recruiting. Franklin recruited McSorely and Fields and got commitments from both of them. Way before other QB evaluators, of which there were numerous, bought into either of them. That right there dispels the "whiff" comment. But Franklin also recruited Clifford to PSU and Clifford was good enough to win 11 games in 2019. So if you want a QB with more success than Clifford to transfer to PSU you are kidding yourself. Veilleux may also prove to be an above average or very good B10 starting QB if he ends up starting games. And right now there are two highly sought after QB's that just enrolled, one of whom was rated the #1 QB coming out of high school Whiff?? Hardly.

And the Iowa debacle was not as straightforward as you make it, as Roberson may have done better had the crowd not been so obnoxious. And Veilleux looked pretty good later in the season, so it might be that there was a competent backup QB (or 2) traveling to Iowa in 2021. One bad game for Roberson does not mean he is without talent, and if the same thing happened later in the season for all we know Veilleux might have been the backup at that time and came in and been more than good enough to hold the lead against a team like Iowa, who I believe PSU was 2 TD's better than on most any day. It also may have turned out better against Iowa had Franklin and his staff got Roberson (and or Veilleux) more snaps in a couple of the games prior to Iowa, and hopefully Franklin and Yurcich will do that going forward.

The plug and play model for college QB that you seem to believe in does not exist. For every one portal transfer that makes a splash there are more than one that also strikes out at their new team. Not much better than the results for recruiting high school players. The only advantage for the teams that do recruit high school player well, and that includes Franklin's PSU, is the ability to TRY and plug a hole at a position of need. And for every Ebikitie and Tangelo there will be Wilson's and Lovett's and Lytton's that did not do much or anything to solve the position weaknesses they were brought in to solve or compliment.

Franklin has adapted. But if you are expecting an inflow of transfers like MSU is doing you will be disappointed. And I'm happy that Franklin is a better recruiter of high school talent than what the last 2 MSU coaches are because Franklin will not have to rely on the crapshoot of the Transfer Portal the way the MSU coaches have. Franklin, if he can keep bringing in top 10 recruiting classes, is more likely to emulate teams like Clemson who reload from the players on their roster as well as the highly talented freshmen they bring in. Clemson has just brought in their first transfer portal player, Hunter Johnson, who enrolled at Clemson out of high school, transferred to Northwestern because he was buried on the Clemson depth chart, and then recently transferred back to Clemson after the grass was not greener at Northwestern.

 

[blion72]

The long term success as I already stated, is the success that PSU fans are expecting. We all know what has actually happened, and are here discussing how to possibly right the ship.

Regarding portal QB's, competent QB's don't go from the portal to be backups to 3 year starting QB's with other QB's on the roster that likely had higher ratings than the portal QB and that have already been in the new team's system for a year or more. If Fields was available in the Spring of 2021 I'm not sure he would be a candidate to come to PSU with Clifford entrenched. Fits for portal QB's, especially at PSU where Franklin has shown loyalty to seniors and returning starter, are hard to find and hard to predict.

And I don't believe Franklin has "whiffed" on QB recruiting. Franklin recruited McSorely and Fields and got commitments from both of them. Way before other QB evaluators, of which there were numerous, bought into either of them. That right there dispels the "whiff" comment. But Franklin also recruited Clifford to PSU and Clifford was good enough to win 11 games in 2019. So if you want a QB with more success than Clifford to transfer to PSU you are kidding yourself. Veilleux may also prove to be an above average or very good B10 starting QB if he ends up starting games. And right now there are two highly sought after QB's that just enrolled, one of whom was rated the #1 QB coming out of high school Whiff?? Hardly.

And the Iowa debacle was not as straightforward as you make it, as Roberson may have done better had the crowd not been so obnoxious. And Veilleux looked pretty good later in the season, so it might be that there was a competent backup QB (or 2) traveling to Iowa in 2021. One bad game for Roberson does not mean he is without talent, and if the same thing happened later in the season for all we know Veilleux might have been the backup at that time and came in and been more than good enough to hold the lead against a team like Iowa, who I believe PSU was 2 TD's better than on most any day. It also may have turned out better against Iowa had Franklin and his staff got Roberson (and or Veilleux) more snaps in a couple of the games prior to Iowa, and hopefully Franklin and Yurcich will do that going forward.

The plug and play model for college QB that you seem to believe in does not exist. For every one portal transfer that makes a splash there are more than one that also strikes out at their new team. Not much better than the results for recruiting high school players. The only advantage for the teams that do recruit high school player well, and that includes Franklin's PSU, is the ability to TRY and plug a hole at a position of need. And for every Ebikitie and Tangelo there will be Wilson's and Lovett's and Lytton's that did not do much or anything to solve the position weaknesses they were brought in to solve or compliment.

Franklin has adapted. But if you are expecting an inflow of transfers like MSU is doing you will be disappointed. And I'm happy that Franklin is a better recruiter of high school talent than what the last 2 MSU coaches are because Franklin will not have to rely on the crapshoot of the Transfer Portal the way the MSU coaches have. Franklin, if he can keep bringing in top 10 recruiting classes, is more likely to emulate teams like Clemson who reload from the players on their roster as well as the highly talented freshmen they bring in. Clemson has just brought in their first transfer portal player, Hunter Johnson, who enrolled at Clemson out of high school, transferred to Northwestern because he was buried on the Clemson depth chart, and then recently transferred back to Clemson after the grass was not greener at Northwestern.

you are correct that the more you are in the top 10 in recruiting, the more of your recruiting is high school vs transfers. the reality for the top 10 types is they will have more guys out in 3 years and if a 4/5* who does not see the field they are gone to transfer faster than in the past. A top team could easily be losing 10-15 player per year to NFL and/or transfer. The turnover is higher than the past, and you will need to be recruiting your top players to hit the field in their first two years. Young but talented. Depending on the losses in different areas, you still need to be able to plug from transfers, like the NFL guys do with free agents. you cannot fixe everything in your recruiting class. I think that the roster management problem got a lot more difficult for everyone.

The guys who are not recruiting from HS at a high level (the vast majority) are now living heavily in the portal (MSU is the poster child as last year they had 40 players on the roster who did not originate at MSU from HS). Their approach is to study the talent and be ready to pounce when it hits the portal. These teams are creating a lot more competition in the portal. I am not sure how long good players are going to last in the portal, but just saying you now need to have an organization in place that can mine this when needed. Even if you are a top 10 recruiting program, you still need this skill set/staff to act when necessary. I dont think you can be passive in that space.

Again, this is working on the assumption that 4/5* players are going to exit for NFL in 3 years, and if not seeing the field gone in 2 years. No concept anymore of retaining the vast majority of recruits over their careers and providing your depth chart. My guess is only a minority of 4/5* players will remain with their original teams for a full 4 or 5 years. Redshirting them for roster management is pointless - save RS for years where they are actually injured.