Any FB coaches out there willing to answer my question? Here we go...in the Minny game I recall PSU employing a 3 TE package with #86, #84, and #44 on the field at the same time. I would say we used this package for 20-25 plays, maybe more. It appeared to me to improve our running game and Clifford had alot of open TE's involved in the passing game. Yet, this Saturday from my seat in the N endzone, I don't ever remember seeing the three TE's on the field at one time for one play! Is there a reason for this? Was OSU's defensive package not good for this set? It seems to me that perhaps if Yurcich had used this set we could have done a better job on blocking #44. JMO...Let me finish by saying I have never spent one second on a FB field coaching the sport,so who am I to question a guy like MY, but I do feel like I know a bit about the game...appreciate responses...
? for football coaches/Yurcich offense
- Thread starter Bkmtnittany1
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thats an interesting question. Was one of those TE's you mentioned hurt? IDK but that could be a reason. One would normally think a 3TE set vs a 4-2-5 would be a good thing.
All 3 played, in fact they all caught a pass Saturday. But they were never on the field at the same time, at least I never saw it. I recall the announcers during the Minnesota game remarking how Yurcich had made such a great adjustment from the Michigan debacle by using the 3 TE's. How it opened things up for Clifford...
Yup....make sure you stop using sets that work!
No idea. We have 3 pretty good TE's and you would think it would play to our advantage for running plays and play action them out into routes. Really only Yurcich and JF can answer that. To me it would have made sense. There are tons of plays/routes/runs you can do off that. Plus it would be ball control that would have helped against OSU keeping their offense off the field. As it was we ran the ball ok, but to me Harbaugh does this very well at Michigan. Plenty of blockers for running plays and short controlled passes for the qb.
Frankly, I don't remember if we ran with 13 personnel or not on Saturday. But seems to me that Mike's desire was to spread the field horizontally to get more 1 on 1's and to open the running lanes, which did happen. I thought Mike called a pretty good game with a couple of stinkers in there. 13 personnel allows the defense to run a heavy box (7 or more) which OSU did quite a bit even when we were in 11 or 12. My guess is he was thinking we get 8 in the box with 13.
Rewatched most of the game in the past few hours. Never had 13 personnel on field. Still don’t understand why we did not use it since it was effective the week before. How do you know the opponent will stop it unless you make them prove it! Forgive me… I coached basketball for over 20 years, it was how I was taught . Football may very well be totally different.
Same reason why when we are Running well we throw it 3 times in a row. Or same reason we throw the fade on 3rd or 4th and short. A mystery!!
I can see it now…..all THREE TE’s all running two yard crossing patterns!
And NONE of the three ever helping our RT #72.
That’s gotta mess up tOSU’s Defensive Coordinator!
And NONE of the three ever helping our RT #72.
That’s gotta mess up tOSU’s Defensive Coordinator!
Please do and let me know. I thought we did it all game, like 25 plays worth. I know we did not do it Saturday
We had the same plan against Chase Young a few years ago. One would think we would learn
1. 1st play 2nd quarter, first 3 TE look. Sweep right to Singleton. 5 on the line, 3 LBs in the box. 2 yard gain.
2. 2nd play 2nd quarter. 3 TEs on the field but Strange and Johnson out wide. 7 man box. Inside zone to Singleton away from the TEs, 2 yard gain.
3. 2nd q, 3rd and 1, Power T 2 TE on the line, Strange at FB. Allen on the handoff, gets a first down.
Halftime. Post second half next.
2. 2nd play 2nd quarter. 3 TEs on the field but Strange and Johnson out wide. 7 man box. Inside zone to Singleton away from the TEs, 2 yard gain.
3. 2nd q, 3rd and 1, Power T 2 TE on the line, Strange at FB. Allen on the handoff, gets a first down.
Halftime. Post second half next.
Another failed coaching attempt. You block him like Von Miller. You jump him. Howard Mudd has a file on him. You can read it on line
Could somebody else explain to me why we have one running back averaging over 6 yards a carry only getting 12 carries in the game while the other averaging half as many yards a carry gets 14? Am I insane for not getting this?
I’m not looking at the stats. This comment is from what i think i have witnessed. The 6 YPC was gained against Auburn and Ohio. Since then, Singleton seems to be an average at best [no comment about OL struggles]. I also think Allen has gotten more yards the past three games.
@Bkmtnittany1
0 plays from 3 TE set 2nd half.
We ran a lot of 2 TE looks, some bunch and some out wide. Did rotate Warren in quite a bit and definitely targeted Johnson more than usual.
0 plays from 3 TE set 2nd half.
We ran a lot of 2 TE looks, some bunch and some out wide. Did rotate Warren in quite a bit and definitely targeted Johnson more than usual.
Was Warren's TD down the seam in a 2 TE set? Thanks for watching...owe you a beer...
I believe it was. They moved them around quite a bit. 2 on the line, one tight one wide, one at H back one on the line.
Two thoughts:
1) Just because it worked against Minny doesn’t mean it will work against OSU. Different personnel. It’s possible MY and/or Franklin didn’t feel they would have an advantage in that set against OSU.
2) If that set worked well against Minny it’s on tape. If it’s on Tape OSU is gonna come up with an answer to defend against it. So they may be trying to give OSU completely different looks.
1) Just because it worked against Minny doesn’t mean it will work against OSU. Different personnel. It’s possible MY and/or Franklin didn’t feel they would have an advantage in that set against OSU.
2) If that set worked well against Minny it’s on tape. If it’s on Tape OSU is gonna come up with an answer to defend against it. So they may be trying to give OSU completely different looks.
I am looking just at the stats from the Ohio State game. Allen averaged over 6 a carry, Singleton around 3.
Our situation is comparable to what OSU has with Henderson and Williams. Williams and Allen have better vision and make tougher runs. Henderson and Singleton are a threat to score on every touch.
Right now, I'd be starting Allen. He's gotten better yardage the past 3 games vs the better rush defenses. I'd also be scheming them both on the field more often. I'd really like to see Singleton on a Jet Sweep as well.
In addition, it seems like they want to work a screen to Singleton to get him into space, which should be mandatory with that speed. It wasn’t executed well vs Michigan, it nearly gave me a heart attack vs Minny cuz it worked, and it wasn’t executed well vs OSU. If you get both him and Allen on the field, you make the defense think an awful lot…and then hit PWash3 on the go pattern out of play action.
I guess basketball is a different animal. When I had sets that worked I ran them even though I knew the opponent scouted us and had us on tape. Force the opponent to show me that you could stop it...
Another ? I have...why don't we ever run split back sets with Allen and Singleton on the field at the same time??? Don't mean all game, I get that, but why not 8-10 plays a game? I would think the options from that package would be enormous and would drive opponent DC's crazy...
I had a a Pop Warner coach that called the exact same running play for every play of a game once.
Is there somewhere we can watch some game film? Not the actual TV broadcast but some game film where we can see formations, defensive alignments, line play etc?
I don't have a good answer. Best I have is nobody on the staff has ever had it in their playbook, hence we've not seen it. We see variations of it with the TEs lined up as Hback or FB. They have incorporated the Power T more this year but that's still not a Pro Set, 2 HB backfield.
Secondary reason might be our OL doesn't run block well enough to utilize that look for runs and our RBs aren't as strong of pass catchers to be utilized that way. 2 go with Singleton/Allen like that, you are gotta either a WR or TE off the field to get the 2nd RB on the field. While it sounds like a great plan, it alerts the defense to your options.
What it usually boils down to is advantage. Is there things you can do from a certain set with certain personnel that conflicts a defense?
that is tough to find. Sometimes you can find a replay of the game on youtube, but if you do, copy and store it somewhere, as they been taken down because of copywrite violations. I guess the best way is to DVR the game. As far as finding coaching tape of PSU good luck. Now the NFL, you can, it costs a little bit, but there are the coahes tapes up for everygame on www.nfl.com
It's a cliché, but I'm starting to view the two of them as a thunder and lightning combo. Both are great. Allen seems to have better vision, patience and navigates traffic better. Singleton has home run speed and acceleration, but seems to need bigger holes. Given that, and OSU's athleticism, I'd expect the guy that seems to run in traffic to perform a little better.
Because a lot of variables go into play calling, schemes, and personnel. One thing I am sure of is that the coaches aren't consulting one another in the heat of the game in regards to the number of carries each player has received.
14 carries vs. 12 carries? That's splitting hairs, it was basically a wash. Game flow, needing to catch one's breath for a play, down and distance, playbook and plays called, pass protection skill, etc. are all factors that could affect the carry counts. I doubt the coaches have a carry count minimum in mind and they are both good enough that I'm not too worried about it.
its funny, I heard Paul Alexander (the former NFL ***'t coach, not @psuro drinking buddy) say that he worked for a guy who made one of the low level guys track, runs vs pass. runs by each back. Catches by each receiver. Then the HC would ask during a TO (or a TV TO) how many times have we run the ball? How many times has #x run it, how about y. Then the HC might then say to OC, do you know we have only had x # of runs so far. So if they arent consulting each other, perhaps they should be.
It’s not the 12 vs. 14 carries I have the issue with. It’s the YPC, one twice as many as the other. That’s my issue. It doesn’t make sense.
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