General recruiting question, qualifiers?

[Ozarkdawg]

It used to be something questioned a lot more, but not nearly as much discussion on if a kid will qualify. Why?

Did standards get lowered?

Did the state of MS get that much better getting kids qualified or has that requirement finally sunk in on the kids?

Do the kids / coaches / recruiting system know they're a real stretch and just not give them much publicity though.

Or is the $ talking and more are just making better grade$ one way or the other?

I know kids still have to go JC for various reasons, just doesn't seem like as many headliners are tbough.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

Considering the outstanding quality of our public school system I am sure these kids are making higher scores

 

[85Bears]

I think the whole facade of “student athlete” and “there to get an education” has collapsed to an extent along with my rules enforcement. The rules are there are no rules.

 

[mstateglfr]

I think the whole facade of “student athlete” and “there to get an education” has collapsed to an extent along with my rules enforcement. The rules are there are no rules.

...except there are easily googled examples of kids not qualifying and current players not being eligible due to grades.
I get that due to recent changes its fashionable to claim there are no rules anymore, but that isnt actually true.

 

[Ozarkdawg]

Didn't see any *.

I know the state's education system is not the best in the country but education rankings have improved over the last few years. I remember when MS and Ark were running neck and neck for last place. Around 2020 that jumped to around 40 and in the 32-35 range the last 2-3 years. It's not top 10, but not bottom 10 either.

 

[85Bears]

...except there are easily googled examples of kids not qualifying and current players not being eligible due to grades.
I get that due to recent changes its fashionable to claim there are no rules anymore, but that isnt actually true.

You can say it’s technically not true, but it is very watered down and obviously the enforcement aspect is not what it was. the players getting 500k and above probably have someone “assisting” with their homework.

 

[mstateglfr]

You can say it’s technically not true, but it is very watered down and obviously the enforcement aspect is not what it was. the players getting 500k and above probably have someone “assisting” with their homework.

Do you not remember that multiple BB and FB players were suspended for this very thing a handful of years ago? Nick Weatherspoon took a test while he was on the court playing in a game. The 'tutor' got a 10 year show cause penalty. Weatherspoon was suspended 21 games spanning 2 seasons.
This was before the NIL craze.

Are you claiming that if this were exposed now, nothing would happen to the players or programs? If you are claiming that, come on man- thats absurd.

Mississippi State placed on 3 years' probation by NCAA

Mississippi State has been placed on three years' probation by the NCAA after an investigation determined a part-time student tutor completed coursework for 10 football players and one men's basketball player in an online course.

apnews.com

 

[85Bears]

No what’s absurd is you pretending ncaa enforcement has not fallen off a cliff in this new Wild West era.

 

[GloryDawg]

The 10-point grading scale in high school and the ability to take the ACT as many times as you want and make one score by taking the best scores for each category has improved the chances of being qualified.

 

[Podgy]

Do you not remember that multiple BB and FB players were suspended for this very thing a handful of years ago? Nick Weatherspoon took a test while he was on the court playing in a game. The 'tutor' got a 10 year show cause penalty. Weatherspoon was suspended 21 games spanning 2 seasons.
This was before the NIL craze.

Are you claiming that if this were exposed now, nothing would happen to the players or programs? If you are claiming that, come on man- thats absurd.

Mississippi State placed on 3 years' probation by NCAA

Mississippi State has been placed on three years' probation by the NCAA after an investigation determined a part-time student tutor completed coursework for 10 football players and one men's basketball player in an online course.

apnews.com

I always thought any student able to play in an SEC basketball game and pass a chemistry test at the same time should get some award.

 

[mstateglfr]

The 10-point grading scale in high school and the ability to take the ACT as many times as you want and make one score by taking the best scores for each category has improved the chances of being qualified.

Whats really wild is that the NCAA eliminated the requirement of ACT/SAT min test scores for D1 and D2 athletes earlier this year.

 

[Ozarkdawg]

The 10-point grading scale in high school and the ability to take the ACT as many times as you want and make one score by taking the best scores for each category has improved the chances of being qualified.

Wasn't aware they can now cherry pick category scores. That really would help improving an overall score.

 

[mstateglfr]

No what’s absurd is you pretending ncaa enforcement has not fallen off a cliff in this new Wild West era.

You said the enforcement aspect is not how it used to be and as an example you suggested some players now are probably getting 'help' on work.
I pointed out that the same thing was happening before NIL and MSU was even caught and screwed by it happening. I pointed this out to show it isnt anything new.

I think it would be an issue and a school would be penalized even now. Perhaps more will get away with it, if enforcement is not as good as it was, but I dont think the result has changed- a school would still be penalized.

 

[mstateglfr]

Wasn't aware they can now cherry pick category scores. That really would help improving an overall score.

A lot of schools are doing this for regular admissions too. Its called a Superscore.
Kinda makes sense- you showed you can get a 28 on math so even if you get a 26 the next time, the 28 is what is considered since you demonstrated you know that much. etc etc.
I know I would have taken the ACT more than once if this existed back before Google. It would have been worthwhile to take the test a few times and compile the best score for each section.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Do you not remember that multiple BB and FB players were suspended for this very thing a handful of years ago? Nick Weatherspoon took a test while he was on the court playing in a game. The 'tutor' got a 10 year show cause penalty. Weatherspoon was suspended 21 games spanning 2 seasons.
This was before the NIL craze.

Are you claiming that if this were exposed now, nothing would happen to the players or programs? If you are claiming that, come on man- thats absurd.

Mississippi State placed on 3 years' probation by NCAA

Mississippi State has been placed on three years' probation by the NCAA after an investigation determined a part-time student tutor completed coursework for 10 football players and one men's basketball player in an online course.

apnews.com

Donate Jones completed around a billion hours in one summer to get eligible. Don't tell me we have any players smarter than that in the current cycle!***

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Do you not remember that multiple BB and FB players were suspended for this very thing a handful of years ago? Nick Weatherspoon took a test while he was on the court playing in a game. The 'tutor' got a 10 year show cause penalty. Weatherspoon was suspended 21 games spanning 2 seasons.
This was before the NIL craze.

Are you claiming that if this were exposed now, nothing would happen to the players or programs? If you are claiming that, come on man- thats absurd.

Mississippi State placed on 3 years' probation by NCAA

Mississippi State has been placed on three years' probation by the NCAA after an investigation determined a part-time student tutor completed coursework for 10 football players and one men's basketball player in an online course.

apnews.com

We probably self imposed all that. Schools have done worse, fought it and gotten hardly any penalty. Just like our fans are our own worst enemy, often our administration are too.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

in 2010 UNC was accused of many several infractions involving it's football team, among them was having a tudor do classwork for players (UNC admitted to much of it) . After a lengthy investigation, the conclusion (from Wikipedia) is below:

On October 13, 2017, the NCAA announced it would not levy penalties against North Carolina, saying it "could not conclude that the University of North Carolina violated N.C.A.A. academic rules."[65][66][67] In their defense, North Carolina cited cases where Auburn and Michigan had similar misconduct and the NCAA did not act.

 

[mstateglfr]

We probably self imposed all that. Schools have down worse, fought it and gotten hardly any penalty. Just like our fans are our own worst enemy, often our administration are too.

I hope that when push comes to shove and people are actually faced with how to handle violations that are internally discovered, they do what they are expected to do and comply with the rules.

Though others may throw ethics out the window, that doesn't justify or excuse the same behavior in yourself.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

I hope that when push comes to shove and people are actually faced with how to handle violations that are internally discovered, they do what they are expected to do and comply with the rules.

Though others may throw ethics out the window, that doesn't justify or excuse the same behavior in yourself.

Nice sentiment, but if you wanna play in the big boy leagues, you gotta play by big boy rules.

The speed limit between Canton and Grenada is 70, no one drives 70 and there is no enforcement, therefore, most, including me, drive 80. None of us "drivers" have ethics and the MHP doesn't care.

 

[mstateglfr]

Nice sentiment, but if you wanna play in the big boy leagues, you gotta play by big boy rules.

The speed limit between Canton and Grenada is 70, no one drives 70 and there is no enforcement, therefore, most, including me, drive 80. None of us "drivers" have ethics and the MHP doesn't care.

Your post implies that if ethics are ignored in one manner for personal benefit/gain, then they lack meaning and can be ignored in all other instances.
That's absurd and I hope that isn't the point you intended to make.



I take no issue if MSU reports that players in multiple sports used a tutor to write papers and/or take tests.
Do you take issue with that? Do you actually take issue with an academic institution upholding academic expectations and standards?

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Your post implies that if ethics are ignored in one manner for personal benefit/gain, then they lack meaning and can be ignored in all other instances.
That's absurd and I hope that isn't the point you intended to make.



I take no issue if MSU reports that players in multiple sports used a tutor to write papers and/or take tests.
Do you take issue with that? Do you actually take issue with an academic institution upholding academic expectations and standards?

I take issue with us not playing by the rules everyone else plays by. There's no need for us to jump on a sword because a tutor took some tests for our players in 2018/2019.

Here's the quote: "When the university learned of possible serious instances of academic misconduct involving student athletes and a student tutor employed part-time by MSU Athletic Academics, we were compelled to remove the student tutor from university employment, fully and independently investigate the matter, and then self-report the misconduct to the NCAA Committee on Infractions," MSU President Mark Keenum said.

No problem with the self reporting, but fight any penalties tooth and nail.

10 players were suspended 8 games each (for the 2019 season IIRC). UNC didn't commit hari cari over a much bigger scandal and neither would most other big time CFB programs.

 

[mstateglfr]

I take issue with us not playing by the rules everyone else plays by. There's no need for us to jump on a sword because a tutor took some tests for our players in 2018/2019.

Here's the quote: "When the university learned of possible serious instances of academic misconduct involving student athletes and a student tutor employed part-time by MSU Athletic Academics, we were compelled to remove the student tutor from university employment, fully and independently investigate the matter, and then self-report the misconduct to the NCAA Committee on Infractions," MSU President Mark Keenum said.

No problem with the self reporting, but fight any penalties tooth and nail.

10 players were suspended 8 games each (for the 2019 season IIRC). UNC didn't commit hari cari over a much bigger scandal and neither would most other big time CFB programs.

Student athletes had a tutor complete schoolwork and take tests in their name.
The school has a disciplinary committee and something this egregious should get a student suspended and classes failed at a minimum.
They should feel lucky to have been treated better than what should have happened.


I don't give a 17 what happened at unc. I care about MSU and expect MSU to uphold and apply academic expectations to all students, athletes included.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Student athletes had a tutor complete schoolwork and take tests in their name.
The school has a disciplinary committee and something this egregious should get a student suspended and classes failed at a minimum.
They should feel lucky to have been treated better than what should have happened.


I don't give a 17 what happened at unc. I care about MSU and expect MSU to uphold and apply academic expectations to all students, athletes included.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Student athletes had a tutor complete schoolwork and take tests in their name.
The school has a disciplinary committee and something this egregious should get a student suspended and classes failed at a minimum.
They should feel lucky to have been treated better than what should have happened.


I don't give a 17 what happened at unc. I care about MSU and expect MSU to uphold and apply academic expectations to all students, athletes included.

Well good for you.

I, and likely the vast majority of fans, want us on as even a playing field as possible. If another programs gets zero penalty for a much more involved and longer running academic scandal, then we need the same penalty (or lack of penalty). We're trying to be a big time program, not Vandy.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

in 2010 UNC was accused of many several infractions involving it's football team, among them was having a tudor do classwork for players (UNC admitted to much of it) . After a lengthy investigation, the conclusion (from Wikipedia) is below:

On October 13, 2017, the NCAA announced it would not levy penalties against North Carolina, saying it "could not conclude that the University of North Carolina violated N.C.A.A. academic rules."[65][66][67] In their defense, North Carolina cited cases where Auburn and Michigan had similar misconduct and the NCAA did not act.

Would like to draw attention to the last sentence above. UNC admitted to much of it, but still fought it. Why? because two of their competitors had a similar situation and received no penalty. So basically the wanted an even playing field.

At the minimum, I want to be able to compete with the OMs, UKs, USCes and Arks of the world.