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Lurker123

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So what does that mean? The US said she was being held wrongfully. Liberals and the LGBTQxyz community said weed was legal in the US so this was no big deal. Apparently laws still mean something in other parts of the world. I hope she gets out on time served but I doubt it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...sedgntp&cvid=9525bb80a3b64306adf11731ff2783ac

My limited research on the matter showed that the "she is being held wrongfully" status was a check in the box to allow a different level of diplomat to negotiate for her release.

Imho, her pleading guilty just ups the price for whatever we trade her for.
 

ToddFlanders

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I don’t think it means much except that’s what was necessary to help expedite her release.

This isn’t some standard court case - it’s an international issue with an American citizen being detained by any enemy government (most likely unlawfully). She was never going to get a fair trial over there - so you jump through the hoops necessary. Russians probably wanted a guilty plea so they didn’t appear to be detaining her unlawfully.
 

Gamekem

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It's Russia and they have a 99% conviction rate. The only play she reasonably had to get out as quickly as possible is to plead guilty and it was encouraged by the State Department. This doesn't mean she was actually guilty of the crime, but more of do what you can to speed up the process for a prisoner swap.

We the public likely won't know the truth until she comes back to US soil. According to what they allegedly found, they found 0.7 grams of hash oil. According to Russian Law anything less than 6 grams is either a fine or 15 days in jail.

This trial and detainment is a sham, and they aren't even following their own laws. She's is being wrongfully detained as noted by the State Department, no way she should be there for 6 months for something by their own standards is 15 days at most. I am convinced this was all in intentional for more prisoner swaps.
 

Thomas_Shelby

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I don’t think it means much except that’s what was necessary to help expedite her release.

This isn’t some standard court case - it’s an international issue with an American citizen being detained by any enemy government (most likely unlawfully). She was never going to get a fair trial over there - so you jump through the hoops necessary. Russians probably wanted a guilty plea so they didn’t appear to be detaining her unlawfully.

So you don't think she actually had marijuana in her vape pen cartridge that she packed in her luggage while she was traveling internationally?
 
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Thomas_Shelby

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It's Russia and they have a 99% conviction rate. The only play she reasonably had to get out as quickly as possible is to plead guilty and it was encouraged by the State Department. This doesn't mean she was actually guilty of the crime, but more of do what you can to speed up the process for a prisoner swap.

We the public likely won't know the truth until she comes back to US soil. According to what they allegedly found, they found 0.7 grams of hash oil. According to Russian Law anything less than 6 grams is either a fine or 15 days in jail.

This trial and detainment is a sham, and they aren't even following their own laws. She's is being wrongfully detained as noted by the State Department, no way she should be there for 6 months for something by their own standards is 15 days at most. I am convinced this was all in intentional for more prisoner swaps.

So she didn't have an illegal substance in her luggage? She just admitted to it and the Russian authorities obviously have the evidence. But she is a black lesbian woman from the US so she is being wrongfully detained obviously.....
 
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Gamekem

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So she didn't have an illegal substance in her luggage? She just admitted to it and the Russian authorities obviously have the evidence. But she is a black lesbian woman from the US so she is being wrongfully detained obviously.....
You don't know and I don't know but based on the amount they allegedly found she shouldn't still be detained based on their own laws. We're only at the the mercy of the Russians who I personally don't trust. This is the same country that regularly poisons and arrest political opponents. You keep putting your own political beliefs in views as reason she should be demonized. I'm not sure why you keep bringing any of these factors up. It wouldn't matter if it was Tom Brady, my argument would still be the same, they are taking advantage of any high profile American they can in hopes for a prisoner swap.
 

ToddFlanders

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So you don't think she actually had marijuana in her vape pen cartridge that she packed in her luggage while she was traveling internationally?

Honestly who knows? You’re talking about a despotic government where people don’t have any real rights. Why would anyone trust anything the Russian government says? And I mean anything? They’re lock step with China, Iraq and North Korea as it relates to openly lying about pretty much everything.
 
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Thomas_Shelby

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You don't know and I don't know but based on the amount they allegedly found she shouldn't still be detained based on their own laws. We're only at the the mercy of the Russians who I personally don't trust. This is the same country that regularly poisons and arrest political opponents. You keep putting your own political beliefs in views as reason she should be demonized. I'm not sure why you keep bringing any of these factors up. It wouldn't matter if it was Tom Brady, my argument would still be the same, they are taking advantage of any high profile American they can in hopes for a prisoner swap.

You and I don't know but apparently you know the amount of the alleged substance she allegedly had and the amount of time that Russian international drug smuggling laws require her to be detained? But you and I don't know? Sounds like you know she had some illegal substances when she tried to enter Russia? Which means she is guilty as she has now admitted.

And you personally don't trust Russians? Well Brittney Griner's wife doesn't trust Joe Biden so I guess you should try and talk to her and change her mind since you trust the US so much. And Tom Brady got suspended for 4 games for deflating footballs here in the US but that was because the NFL has their own justice system which differs from the judicial system that OJ Simpson enjoyed.
 
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Thomas_Shelby

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Honestly who knows? You’re talking about a despotic government where people don’t have any real rights. Why would anyone trust anything the Russian government says? And I mean anything? They’re lock step with China, Iraq and North Korea as it relates to openly lying about pretty much everything.

Kind of like lying about not ever discussing your son Hunter's international business dealings to insulate yourself from guilt and then leaving him a voicemail telling him "hey pal" "you are in the clear".... Yes Russia is a despotic government.
 
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Gamekem

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You and I don't know but apparently you know the amount of the alleged substance she allegedly had and the amount of time that Russian international drug smuggling laws require her to be detained? But you and I don't know? Sounds like you know she had some illegal substances when she tried to enter Russia? Which means she is guilty as she has now admitted.

And you personally don't trust Russians? Well Brittney Griner's wife doesn't trust Joe Biden so I guess you should try and talk to her and change her mind since you trust the US so much. And Tom Brady got suspended for 4 games for deflating footballs here in the US but that was because the NFL has their own justice system which differs from the judicial that OJ Simpsons enjoyed.
Ok if you don't want to be serious and throw hissy fit then so be it. I have followed the case and what has been released from the trial. There has been no statement to confirm that she is guilty of anything. But I'll leave you to continue talk about your whataboutisms that aren't relevant to the topic at hand.
 

Thomas_Shelby

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Ok if you don't want to be serious and throw hissy fit then so be it. I have followed the case and what has been released from the trial. There has been no statement to confirm that she is guilty of anything. But I'll leave you to continue talk about your whataboutisms that aren't relevant to the topic at hand.

Dude she just gave a guilty plea. You can be liberal all you want, but you can't just lie about the truth dude. The subject of this thread is she plead guilty. That is a statement that she is guilty of everything she is being accused of. You can't lie about it.
 
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Prestonyte

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Dude she just gave a guilty plea. You can be liberal all you want, but you can't just lie about the truth dude. The subject of this thread is she plead guilty. That is a statement that she is guilty of everything she is being accused of. You can't lie about it.
When traveling abroad, you have to know the laws and the consequences of breaking those laws. Don't expect a pass because of who you are. As is always the case, the guilty plea is a negotiation tool.
 

Gamekem

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Dude she just gave a guilty plea. You can be liberal all you want, but you can't just lie about the truth dude. The subject of this thread is she plead guilty. That is a statement that she is guilty of everything she is being accused of. You can't lie about it.
Final statement, since you didn't read my previous comment or the actually case. She pleaded guilty, because its believe to be speed up the process and increase the chances of her getting a prisoner swap. No matter how innocent she could be, this was the only move she could make. But again true to form more snipes that aren't relevant to case at hand, at least you're consistent.
 

Thomas_Shelby

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Final statement, since you didn't read my previous comment or the actually case. She pleaded guilty, because its believe to be speed up the process and increase the chances of her getting a prisoner swap. No matter how innocent she could be, this was the only move she could make. But again true to form more snipes that aren't relevant to case at hand, at least you're consistent.
Dude you said there was no statement that she was guilty of anything. That is factually wrong. You can lie to yourself and your liberal friends but I deal with the truth.
 

ToddFlanders

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Dude you said there was no statement that she was guilty of anything. That is factually wrong. You can lie to yourself and your liberal friends but I deal with the truth.

The truth of what? Did she plead guilty? Yes. Does that mean she’s guilty? Absolutely not.

In your ham-handed attempts to denigrate an American that you dislike (and we all know why), you’ve chosen to throw out all critical thinking and reason to put all your eggs in the “Putin and his government would never lie to me” basket.

You don’t really deal in truths as much as a skewed personal “reality.”
 

Lurker123

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The truth of what? Did she plead guilty? Yes. Does that mean she’s guilty? Absolutely not.

In your ham-handed attempts to denigrate an American that you dislike (and we all know why), you’ve chosen to throw out all critical thinking and reason to put all your eggs in the “Putin and his government would never lie to me” basket.

You don’t really deal in truths as much as a skewed personal “reality.”

I don't know, the dude he's arguing with argued that Russia isn't following its own laws because of the small amount found. That kind of kills the "she didn't have any" argument.

And pleading guilty may be a negotiating tactic in this case, but it does make any claim that "there's been no statement to confirm she is guilty" kind of odd, to say the least.
 
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Thomas_Shelby

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The truth of what? Did she plead guilty? Yes. Does that mean she’s guilty? Absolutely not.

In your ham-handed attempts to denigrate an American that you dislike (and we all know why), you’ve chosen to throw out all critical thinking and reason to put all your eggs in the “Putin and his government would never lie to me” basket.

You don’t really deal in truths as much as a skewed personal “reality.”
I believe she had marijuana in her vape cartridge. I don’t believe she is innocent. And I am not making excuses for her.
 

Gamekem

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I don't know, the dude he's arguing with argued that Russia isn't following its own laws because of the small amount found. That kind of kills the "she didn't have any" argument.

And pleading guilty may be a negotiating tactic in this case, but it does make any claim that "there's been no statement to confirm she is guilty" kind of odd, to say the least.
I only said that because we still follow the principle of innocence until proven guilty. Everything that has come out has only come from Russia a country I don't believe. Griner has been unable to speak on her own behalf about what really occurred and the State Department had made no official statement either that she brought anything either. Hence why there has been no official statement declaring her guilt and we won't likely know until she's back in the US.
 

Lurker123

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I believe she had marijuana in her vape cartridge. I don’t believe she is innocent. And I am not making excuses for her.

The simplest explanation, imo.

She carried something that was legal here while travelling to a place it wasnt legal. (Dumb mistake, but still illegal) Russia is making a bigger deal of it than normal because of her "celebrity", and thinks they'll get a good trade for her.
 

Thomas_Shelby

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I only said that because we still follow the principle of innocence until proven guilty. Everything that has come out has only come from Russia a country I don't believe. Griner has been unable to speak on her own behalf about what really occurred and the State Department had made no official statement either that she brought anything either. Hence why there has been no official statement declaring her guilt and we won't likely know until she's back in the US.
Like I said. She ain’t in the US. Some county’s still have laws and they still enforce them. Like some states have strict gun laws but they don’t enforce them (Illinois). So we need more laws that we do not enforce so we can take away our rights as Americans while we support the drug cartels invading our borders. Don’t enforce those laws, make more laws not to enforce.
 

Lurker123

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I only said that because we still follow the principle of innocence until proven guilty. Everything that has come out has only come from Russia a country I don't believe. Griner has been unable to speak on her own behalf about what really occurred and the State Department had made no official statement either that she brought anything either. Hence why there has been no official statement declaring her guilt and we won't likely know until she's back in the US.

I get not believing the Russians. But the "no official statement" angle falls flat when her statement was:
"I would like to plead guilty on the charges against me, but I had no intention on breaking any Russian law," she said in court. "I was in a rush packing and the cartridges accidentally ended up in my bags."
 

Gamekem

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I get not believing the Russians. But the "no official statement" angle falls flat when her statement was:
"I would like to plead guilty on the charges against me, but I had no intention on breaking any Russian law," she said in court. "I was in a rush packing and the cartridges accidentally ended up in my bags."
Yes but then there is the context that was previously discussed, that stated that guilty plead was expected solely for a prisoner swap purposes. Not because of the actual crime at hand. That statement isn't about what truly occurred which was the point.
 

Thomas_Shelby

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Yes but then there is the context that was previously discussed, that stated that guilty plead was expected solely for a prisoner swap purposes. Not because of the actual crime at hand. That statement isn't about what truly occurred which was the point.
You sound like a ambulance chaser.
 
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Lurker123

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Yes but then there is the context that was previously discussed, that stated that guilty plead was expected solely for a prisoner swap purposes. Not because of the actual crime at hand. That statement isn't about what truly occurred which was the point.

Occams razor.

Maybe she admitted to it because she actually did it. Her explanation is the simplest and probably true explanation.

But again, I object to the "no official statement" argument that is followed by trying to argue the merits of the official statement.

I guess the simplest way I can put this is, just because the Russians are liars doesn't mean she didn't make a mistake. There's room for both to be true. And if we're being seriously impartial, both are probably true.
 

Gamekem

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Occams razor.

Maybe she admitted to it because she actually did it. Her explanation is the simplest and probably true explanation.

But again, I object to the "no official statement" argument that is followed by trying to argue the merits of the official statement.

I guess the simplest way I can put this is, just because the Russians are liars doesn't mean she didn't make a mistake. There's room for both to be true. And if we're being seriously impartial, both are probably true.
And I never said she wasn't. I only said we won't know the truth till she gets back. Everyone is quick to make a judgement that she did it without any real. So my point still stands we don't know and likely won't know the truth until she comes back. Statements under duress is hardly ever consider official and I still stand by it.
 

Lurker123

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And I never said she wasn't. I only said we won't know the truth till she gets back. Everyone is quick to make a judgement that she did it without any real. So my point still stands we don't know and likely won't know the truth until she comes back. Statements under duress is hardly ever consider official and I still stand by it.

Meh, I won't trust her statements when she gets back either.

Criminals often proclaim their innocence, and she'll have incentives to play the victim card.

I'll stick with the simplest explanation being true. She did something stupid and Russia is taking advantage of it.
 

Prestonyte

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And I never said she wasn't. I only said we won't know the truth till she gets back. Everyone is quick to make a judgement that she did it without any real. So my point still stands we don't know and likely won't know the truth until she comes back. Statements under duress is hardly ever consider official and I still stand by it.
Still may not know the truth even when she gets back.
Try the I left home in a hurry and forgot I had drugs in my purse argument the next time you get stopped by an officer and see what response you get.
 

Carolina Steve

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I can't see her as being a high value target for a swap (to her family she certainly is but generally no) so it may be awhile before she is traded, if she ever is. She has no security clearance and probably knows nothing of value to be extracted.
 

Lurker123

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I can't see her as being a high value target for a swap (to her family she certainly is but generally no) so it may be awhile before she is traded, if she ever is. She has no security clearance and probably knows nothing of value to be extracted.

I think her value will be in her "celebrity", not in anything she knows. But I agree with the general sentiment.
 
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The Reel Ess

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IDK, man. She broke the law of another country. She could have been a lot smarter in this situation.
 
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8NPJ3

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She broke the law in a foreign country and now must pay the price. She is no different than anyone else. You think they would fight for one of us to be released? No.
 
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York cock

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You and I don't know but apparently you know the amount of the alleged substance she allegedly had and the amount of time that Russian international drug smuggling laws require her to be detained? But you and I don't know? Sounds like you know she had some illegal substances when she tried to enter Russia? Which means she is guilty as she has now admitted.

And you personally don't trust Russians? Well Brittney Griner's wife doesn't trust Joe Biden so I guess you should try and talk to her and change her mind since you trust the US so much. And Tom Brady got suspended for 4 games for deflating footballs here in the US but that was because the NFL has their own justice system which differs from the judicial system that OJ Simpson enjoyed.
Don’t go bringing common sense on this forum!!!!
 

8NPJ3

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Just me, but there’s no way I try and enter a foreign country with dope in my travel bags.
It is entitlement. She probably felt she could get away with anything because of her status. She made a terrible decision and now she needs to face the consequences of that decision.
 

Spurman54

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So what does that mean? The US said she was being held wrongfully. Liberals and the LGBTQxyz community said weed was legal in the US so this was no big deal. Apparently laws still mean something in other parts of the world. I hope she gets out on time served but I doubt it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...sedgntp&cvid=9525bb80a3b64306adf11731ff2783ac
Britany Greiner has played professionallybasketball in Russia for at least five years. She knew how strict they were on drugs and social issues. She thought that just because she was an African American with entitelment views she could get by their laws. Britany played in a womens professional league that paid her $1 million. She is not being held unlawfully. The Russians are really good negotiators and trust me they are not going to give her up to the liberal government we have with Biden and his WNBA socialists followers. Biden could not negotiate with a pack of rats to let them go from a rat trap. The Russians will exchange her for a high profile prisoner that the US currently has. Britany may be in prison for a long time. This is what the liberals voted for. If the leader in the White House wanted to make a splash exchange her for the high profile prisoner. By the way where is the Black Lives Matter terror group. They have not spoken one word to try and help. Exactly that is what I thought.
 
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