Henrik Stenson removed as Ryder Cup captain for Team Europe.
- Thread starter DesotoCountyDawg
- Start date
But the Saudi Dirty Money
Is more worser than the other dirty money! Protect my pearls!
Is more worser than the other dirty money! Protect my pearls!
Got some downvotes a week ago when I said if the PGA, the majors, the Rydar Cup and the world golf rankings want to stay relevant, they're going to have to quit blackballing the LIV golfers. Otherwise, we'll wind up with a LIV tour and nothing else.
The Ryder Cup is managed by PGA America, PGA Euro Tour, and PGA Europe.
PGA America has said players must be part of a recognized tour to compete and PGA Euro Tour flat out banned LIV golfers from their tour.
So basically, this is incredibly unsurprising.
Note1- I am not defending the decision, only saying it was inevitable based on current rules. Personally, I think its absurd that a player cant play on multiple tours since, you know, players can do that right now and permission has been commonplace up to now.
Note2- PGA America and PGA Tour are different.
PGA America has said players must be part of a recognized tour to compete and PGA Euro Tour flat out banned LIV golfers from their tour.
So basically, this is incredibly unsurprising.
Note1- I am not defending the decision, only saying it was inevitable based on current rules. Personally, I think its absurd that a player cant play on multiple tours since, you know, players can do that right now and permission has been commonplace up to now.
Note2- PGA America and PGA Tour are different.
That experience was clearly difficult for you to navigate, but hopefully with time and the support of loved ones, you can find a way to move on and perhaps even emerge stronger.
This is all reminding me of late 90s wrestling when Ted Turner bought WCW and immediately started poaching WWF’s roster with huge guaranteed contracts. It worked for a few years and gave us the incredible Monday night wars, but eventually those already aging stars just couldn’t go in the ring anymore, and WCW had a mess on its hands when they still owed them all tens of millions of dollars.
Dont get me wrong, I don’t feel like the PGA or its counterparts have handled much of this particularly well, but I still can’t figure out the math behind this LIV tour. Hundreds of millions of guaranteed money for mostly aging golfers + huge payouts for a tour with no TV deal or ad money to my knowledge. I get that the Saudis have more money than I could ever imagine, but at some point this model just has to fail unless it undergoes some major changes
Dont get me wrong, I don’t feel like the PGA or its counterparts have handled much of this particularly well, but I still can’t figure out the math behind this LIV tour. Hundreds of millions of guaranteed money for mostly aging golfers + huge payouts for a tour with no TV deal or ad money to my knowledge. I get that the Saudis have more money than I could ever imagine, but at some point this model just has to fail unless it undergoes some major changes
Is LIV also snatching up all the young talent that is just turning pro? I’ve been told they are, but I do not know if it’s true. Cam Smith (strong rumor) and Hideki are not old. Hovland may bolt as well. I believe the strategy is to spend enough money to attract attention and gain legitimacy, then let the tournament payouts be what keeps people and attracts new talent, eventually getting away from massive contracts for the early adopters
Aging golfers continues to be how LIV players are characterized, but the field is really a small sampling of a typical PGA Tour field when it comes to age. And now that the majors are over, perhaps more players will jump to LIV.
I do agree that the current LIV setup is not sustainable on its own. It would need to be funded by the Saudi Fund in perpetuity if the current payouts/contracts continue. I doubt they will though.
I do agree that the current LIV setup is not sustainable on its own. It would need to be funded by the Saudi Fund in perpetuity if the current payouts/contracts continue. I doubt they will though.
Saudi dirty money
Seriously, considering the ramifications of what Saudi Arabia has done to our country (funded 9/11 and much more), to be ok with this demonstrates one's lack of patriotism. It is treasonous to support an organization that does NOT support your country. Simple math.
Lock it, these stupid *** threads are getting ridiculous...some here really need to read some WORLD news and not that 1 sided bs.
Seriously, considering the ramifications of what Saudi Arabia has done to our country (funded 9/11 and much more), to be ok with this demonstrates one's lack of patriotism. It is treasonous to support an organization that does NOT support your country. Simple math.
Lock it, these stupid *** threads are getting ridiculous...some here really need to read some WORLD news and not that 1 sided bs.
So you don't have a single piece of Nike in house? If MSU went to NIKE, you'd drop your support tomorrow?
The Saudi's aren't good. Neither are China. Neither are a lot of our giant institutions, public or private. LIV seems like a weird place to draw the line.
The reason to me to be against it is that they are starting off with an unsustainable model. One reasonably likely result seems like LIV will be successful enough to really damage the PGA tour, but not successful to keep going as is when the Saudi's get tired of dumping money into it, and then you're left with two weak and possibly unsustainable tours and the PGA has to build itself back up.
That said, the PGA has 17ed this up because the PGA in theory should be there for the members. The fact that so many members see the tour as a necessary evil rather than their organization to protect means they have not done a good job balancing players interests and convincing players they are acting in their best interests.
If you feel that way I guess you feel the PGA and USGA should banned all NIKE equipment and clothes. Most of that stuff is made in China in sweat shop by kid workers and the Chinese Communist Government has done way more damaged to the united states and have killed way more people than the Saudi's.
I don't see another choice the PGA has. No other pro league would let players hop around.
I get it that golf is somewhat different because it's an individual sport and the PGA is coming off as childish.. but I highly doubt they want to kick players off the tour. Somewhere they did the calculus and decided it's what they've got to do to remain viable.
I get it that golf is somewhat different because it's an individual sport and the PGA is coming off as childish.. but I highly doubt they want to kick players off the tour. Somewhere they did the calculus and decided it's what they've got to do to remain viable.
Had the PGA not banned players from going, it is likely LIV wouldn’t have been handing out massive signing bonuses. Players would’ve shown up for the large purses for some tournaments but the PGA could’ve easily increased their purse size by a decent amount and been in the same ball park. By trying to black ball them, the Saudis just flexed their money hard and now their is nothing the PGA can do.
I’m not locking the thread because of your grenade throwing. So is it ok for the PGA Tour to be working with China because they are and China is just as much a threat to the USA as the Saudis.
Disagree slightly.
The Saudis could walk away if LIV turns out too much of a money loser. That said, if I'm the PGA & Company, I make a deal with them and cut out Norman.
The Saudis could walk away if LIV turns out too much of a money loser. That said, if I'm the PGA & Company, I make a deal with them and cut out Norman.
Not even in the same ballpark. China is intent on flexing their world wide influence and have basically 17ed up everything they've touched (and also more or less doomed themselves at the same time with their one child policy, so they'll be cracking after ensuring they are integral to most worldwide supply chains). And the Saudi's haven't infiltrated our organizations any where near the extent China has, partly because they don't see us as a rival that they need to surpass, but just a world power they need to work with/work around.
Plus there's the whole gain of function research China was doing in the equivalent of a 17ing dentist office that just killed somewhere around 6M people. Basically another holocaust but focused on the old and/or unhealthy rather than any particular ethnicity. That is also going to pose a continuing risk of mutations that can create more deadly strains going forward. Of course, we contributed to funding that so I don't guess China should get 100% of the credit for that one.
Sure, they could walk away. But that's not what they do. When they decide to invest in something, they do it with the intention of becoming a major player (if not the dominant player). They don't take no for an answer or care how much it costs.
Agreed.
But the best way for the Saudis to be a major player is for the Major Golf Players (the PGA & Co.) to make a deal with them.
I expect a PGA-Saudi deal to happen. The timeframe will depend on what the Masters does as far as tournament invitations are concerned.
If the Masters says that... say... 10 LIV players not otherwise qualified are invited, expect a deal to happen sooner rather than later.
But the best way for the Saudis to be a major player is for the Major Golf Players (the PGA & Co.) to make a deal with them.
I expect a PGA-Saudi deal to happen. The timeframe will depend on what the Masters does as far as tournament invitations are concerned.
If the Masters says that... say... 10 LIV players not otherwise qualified are invited, expect a deal to happen sooner rather than later.
Man it’s cool that you’ve never bought or used anything that’s made in China. What’s it like to levitate above the rest of us?
The thing that I found odd is the payout. At one point is was rumored that the payouts for tournaments was coming out of the players signing bonus which seems odd. I also have a problem with LIV currently adding to world ranking. With no cut and weak fields, I don’t think they should get points for LIV events. If they fix the format I have no problem with it. It’s just not an apples to apples comparison right now to other tours. I also think they are trying to XFL it up. I just think the nature of golf doesn’t translate to your average sports viewer. Especially post Tiger.
Agreed. When I said I dont think they will fund this in perpetuity, I just meant that they wont have to. If things continue along this route, LIV will gain other revenue streams to allow the direct funding to tail off.
I might be missing your point, but I feel like internationally, professionals playing in multiple leagues happens with more sports than you would think. Take Soccer for example... a player could theoretically play with multiple clubs in multiple leagues over the course of an entire year. Most female athletes kind of have to play overseas in addition to any US-based league to make any kind of money. Plus virtually every sport except for football (real, American football) has some sort of 'national' team that uses players from professional sports teams/clubs.
Again, I might be misunderstanding what you're saying.
Every other league also has guaranteed contracts. You can be a PGA tour member and literally make a teacher’s salary at the end of the year after expenses. And you’ll be left unemployed. Now granted I think it’s the truest form of professional sports …keep what you earn. But the PGA tour had plenty of time to get out in front of this and make some changes but they ignored it. Just like the ncaa did with NIL. Now both are in underwater wondering what hit them.
There is no reason these tours can’t coexist. LIV is only 8 tourneys a year and they plan them on off weekends. The PGA tour is acting like a sour *****. Let 80 players 8 times a year go play on the LIV and quit acting like it’s the end of the world. It’s totally different formats. Most real fans will probably not even watch the 8 exhibitions. The PGA has 17ed this up from the beginning by implying there is some legitimacy to the LIV tour. If you have actually watched LIV, no real golfer accepts 54 holes of shotgun golf as a real tourney. LIV will never be able to work it’s way in to the traditional courses of the pga tour that makes it what it is. If they would have just let LIV coexist, it would have fizzled out as quick as it started.
THIS - it is exactly what happened to CART when IndyCar split off in the 90s. They fought for a decade, then ended up getting back together. But, the damage was done and I don't think IndyCar has been back to what it was even after all this time - and F1 is likely more popular in the US than Indy now.
With brand new 9 year, $8B TV contracts in place, its going to be awhile before the PGA tour goes under.
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