High school PA announcer gives it back to fans/parents concerning refs
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PA announcer was angry that his team may have just blown it with a last tenth of a second foul. Was hoping to get the call in his team's favor by smooching ref behind.
Another moron parent who should know better.
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Robert Horry Ejected From Son's High School Basketball Game
7x NBA champ Robert Horry was ejected from his son's basketball game Friday night for heckling the referees, and TMZ Sports has video of the incident.
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Another moron parent who should know better.
Robert Horry Ejected From Son's High School Basketball Game
7x NBA champ Robert Horry was ejected from his son's basketball game Friday night for heckling the referees, and TMZ Sports has video of the incident.
what a f* idiot. I don't know what school his son attends, and I don't feel like trying to figure that out. However, at quite a few schools whose practices I know the details for, he would either 1) be forbidden from attending any more sporting events for the rest of the year, or 2) read the riot act, so to speak, and warned that if there were any future incidents he would be forbidden from attending any future sporting events at the school.
A former pro athlete, as well as the parent of a student athlete, should know better, and should lead by example.
His son is at Harvard Westlake which is an elite private school in LA. Will be interesting to see what the school does. Sadly no one in the crowd told him to stop making a fool of himself.
I've negotiated our officials contracts for more than 20 years and settle grievances as well (in our section, which is equivalent to a district in the PIAA). The NFHS has statistics, high school officials are leaving at an alarming rate. Coach, parent and fan abuse is the #1 issue. Players, coaches and officials are not perfect......
As a consequence contests are often worked with less than the required # of officials, cancelled and rescheduled for availability and at sub varsity levels played as scrimmages or not at all. People need to wake up.
Every state association has worked to get out the message of fan/parent behavior and sportsmanship. Yet, it falls on deaf ears.
As a consequence contests are often worked with less than the required # of officials, cancelled and rescheduled for availability and at sub varsity levels played as scrimmages or not at all. People need to wake up.
Every state association has worked to get out the message of fan/parent behavior and sportsmanship. Yet, it falls on deaf ears.
I was recently told that in PA there is such a shortage of high school football officials that next season, schools are going to have to play on Thursday-Sunday in order to have officials for all games. I completely agree that a lot of those who are leaving are getting out because of the verbal abuse from fans and coaches. I notice it in baseball more so than football since the atmosphere is quieter and you can hear everything that is said.
Many Friday night games here had to be moved to Saturday afternoon. The same officials are working both JV and varsity double headers (basketball)this winter.
Two of the worst incidents here this winter: parents stormed the court in a junior high girls game. 3rd quarter score 6-6 ...Cops had to be called in another junior high game as coaches got into an altercation.
My own son kept me in check. “Don’t embarrass me Dad”
Cops had to be called in another junior high game as coaches got into an altercation.
Everyone thinks their kid is going to get an athletic scholarship. I haven't seen too much of this yet with my kids, but I have a lot of friends who have older kids who play sports and for many it's the most important thing their kid does at school (this is at private). I'm not sure why either since many of these parents can get their kid into almost any school they want....(also weird, since many are so wealthy their kids will never have to work).
Same here in MD. Lots of 3-5 man crews this year for Varsity games due to not having enough refs. As our asst AD, my job at FB games is to stay with the officials from the time they get out of their vehicles until they leave. I save parking spots in our back lot away from the normal crowd, escort them in to the officials room and then through the school on to the field or the pressbox for the timer. At halftime I feed them back in their room and escort them back out. After the game I get them and give them a drink for the ride home and escort them to their cars. We do this for two reasons, to try and avoid the fan/coach interaction with the officials and to try and treat them as well as possible to get them to come back. We play a few Thursday night games with a couple on Saturday too. Guys are actually more willing to do a HS game on Saturday than a youth league because those are even worse.
Basketball and baseball are in bad shape too but not as bad as field hockey, wrestling and soccer. Too many older guys who have done those jobs for lots of years and are just not physically able to do it anymore. Young people do not want to get in to officiating. They would rather be the problem than the solution.
I dad coached lax 10-12yo s for 5 years as my sons passed thru. I always said the same thing, “your kids are not going to Duke for free so chill”
Always important to ensure safe entry and exit for officials. It only takes one to create a major incident.
We have districts where superintendents refuse to hire security. I ask them if they've consulted about this with their insurance carriers.
Good Lord....
Cops had to be called in another junior high game as coaches got into an altercation.
I want Dean to do this at a PSU football game.
SIT! DOWWWWWWWN! And shut up!
SIT! DOWWWWWWWN! And shut up!
Funny you say that - friend of mine was the #1 HS Lax player in the country when he came out (he's younger than me) and went to Duke. Said friend's daughter is not quite old enough to play any sort of competitive lax yet though (in K with my son).
Girls AAU soccer in Pennsylvania and Maryland don't seem to have issues getting younger soccer refs. Parents also generally behave themselves compared to HS. Is it because the refs are paid more in AAU and it's worthwhile for younger refs? Idk.
As you said, the HS girls soccer refs are generally older and many can't keep up with the ball and that can lead to bad calls.
But he invited people in the stands to come and try to officiate. Imagine tens of thousands of PSU fans transversing the isles, walkways, and portals to go on the field to help officiate.
It has nothing to do with fees (getting younger officials), at least in PA.
The PIAA regulates high school officials in PA. To ref high school or middle school sports, an official must be 18.
AAU follows US Soccer rules. You can become a US Soccer ref at 14. I believe younger refs are restricted to reffing age groups no more than 2 years older than they are, but due to ref shortages there are built-in exceptions to this rule when a warm body is needed.
The PIAA, due to a severe referee shortage in most sports, has recently started a "Junior Officials Program." This enables 16 & 17 year olds to become PIAA officials. However, they are only permitted to ref 9th grade or younger events.
As far as sideline decorum, having been at more soccer matches (both youth and HS) than I care to admit, I'd disagree that parents at youth matches are generally better behaved than at HS matches. It seems to deal more with the program, and the coaches, than the age group. While the comments at HS matches can get a little out of hand, the games are often played in football stadiums so the fans are a good distance from the field/refs, so they don't become as much of an issue. Plus, most HS have administrators onsite that will deal with fans that cross the line. Youth matches, by contrast, are usually played on a field with the parents just a few yards from the sidelines, and there is almost never a program administrator there to police the parents. It's left to the coaches, who are on the other side of the field, or the ref to eject the parent. I've seen youth matches terminated by the ref for pervasive bad behavior on the sidelines by parents, and even seen police called for youth matches -- both situations that should never occur.
Returning to the fee structure, AAU does not pay more to refs of youth soccer than high schools pay to refs of HS matches. The only youth fees that pay as much or more than HS fees are for the older kids (U-17 and above), and in those situations the center ref is the only one that gets the same or more than does a ref for a HS match. (It's difficult to discuss specifics, as there isn't a standardized fee for high schools (it's either established by each league, or by each PIAA District), and different youth leagues pay different rates.)
There are some PIAA refs that can't keep up with really good play, and it's unfortunate. However, there are quite a few PIAA refs that can run as fast as pretty much any player on the HS soccer field. There aren't enough of them, and it does hurt the situation for everybody. As for why there are not more refs of younger ages, it's not a simple answer. It's a combination of 1) how many people are free at 3:15 or 3:30 during the week, 2) school districts are under financial constraints from many directions, so ref fees are only marginally more than they were 20 years ago, 3) the crap refs put up with is absurd, and most sane people don't want to deal with that. As @Bison13 mentioned, there are a number of schools that now provide escorts of refs out to their cars, but not all do. And even in districts where they do, it doesn't prevent idiots from spouting off or making threats as they walk by or drive by.
I dont think he means younger as in below 18, I think he (and I) mean that younger officials are guys who are below 60. Ones who physically are now not able to officiate a soccer, lax or FH game.
There are quite a few refs over 60 that are quite capable of reffing soccer and LAX. I can't speak to FH, as I have no affiliation with the sport, and really don't know the physical requirements of reffing the sport.
Exactly. There's very few HS basketball and soccer refs under 60 here in NEPA. Often times, they are the same refs doing both.
We aren't that bad in central MD but we have quite a few who are retirees who just cant run the sidelines like they used to. We had a fight at a FH game this fall and the two officials were both over 60 (1 man and 1 woman) who just could not move enough to pick up on the physical/dirty play throughout the game.
Baseball is not so bad with older guys as long as we have a two man crew, one old guy cant do it alone, but two old guys can. Most of our JV games are now only 1 guy behind the plate so there are a boatload of blown calls at 2nd every game. Thankfully our kids/coaches/parents understand when they see the situation.
Basketball, you can have one old guy but not two. I have seen guys work out the position mechanics every stoppage quite well when one guy can obviously move better than the other. We are down with basketball official numbers but not awful. A few younger guys are joining the ranks who have finally dropped their dream of playing/coaching professionally. Some of them are starting to get very good as they just have a natural feel for play. As a side story, you know who is a terrible basketball official down here, Adrian Dantley, former NBA guy.
This has been going on for decades, and sometimes it’s worse with girls sports. I coached high level travel team girls fast pitch softball in the early nineties. I had four pitchers whose parents drove me crazy, because they were convinced that each one was getting a full scholarship, and should pitch every game. One game I had all four warm up, and at the bottom of the first inning I sent them all to the mound at once.
The umps went nuts and asked me the heck I was doing. I pointed to the stands and told them to go sort it out with the parents. Well I was ejected, and nothing changed, but at least I had fun that day.
The umps went nuts and asked me the heck I was doing. I pointed to the stands and told them to go sort it out with the parents. Well I was ejected, and nothing changed, but at least I had fun that day.
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I believe if you pay enough, you can get the 20-40 year olds to come out and ref games no matter the circumstances. Of course, that's not what school districts want to hear and I understand that.
No HS/youth refs should be subject to parents and fans being jerks. The issue is here in NEPA, administrators can't give a crap about girls soccer so they don't show so it's generally a free for all. That's probably why I see AAU matches as much calmer. Also, HS refs seem to let the players play rougher and that makes parents more emotional as kids are getting hurt compared to AAU refs generally keeping the game cleaner right from the start.
One team's parents are so bad that the head ref approached them in the stands before our district playoff game at their stadium and announced loudly that he knows what he's doing and they need to behave. They behaved and ended up winning the game. All of this followed a game where a parent was nearly arrested for harrassing one of our players at our stadium following a game. The kid who's parent was nearly arrested is headed to a D3 school to play, but admitted to my other daughter at a party that she doesn't want to play anymore but said parent is making her.
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I get it that there are a lot of examples of behavior that is inappropriate. But you can't expect parents to just sit quietly and watch referees continually make mistakes and bad calls. High school, middle school, recreation officials etc. do make a lot of bad calls.
He does. Im glad he is nice to you, he generally is not to people involved at the basketball games. I have yet to see him this year so maybe he has chilled.
I wish we could offer more as it would help but you are right, the schools dont want to double their officiating budgets. It definitely would help with getting the young guys right out of college to at least consider doing it.I believe if you pay enough, you can get the 20-40 year olds to come out and ref games no matter the circumstances. Of course, that's not what school districts want to hear and I understand that.
No HS/youth refs should be subject to parents and fans being jerks. The issue is here in NEPA, administrators can't give a crap about girls soccer so they don't show so it's generally a free for all. That's probably why I see AAU matches as much calmer. Also, HS refs seem to let the players play rougher and that makes parents more emotional as kids are getting hurt.
One team's parents are so bad that the head ref approached them in the stands before our district playoff game at their stadium and announced loudly that he knows what he's doing and they need to behave. They behaved and ended up winning the game. All of this followed a game where a parent was nearly arrested for harrassing one of our players at our stadium following a game. The kid who's parent was nearly arrested is headed to a D3 school to play, but admitted to my other daughter at a party that she doesn't want to play anymore but said parent is making her.
A few years back when I was a varsity boys basketball coach our board of officials contract was up. I was on the committee to discuss the next contract and both the county AD and the officials rep thought it would be a rubber stamp (PSU BOT style). Well, a couple of us coaches went after the officials rep as they were just not doing a very good job. We had communicated with another board of officials and told the current one we weren't interested in them. Our county AD was miffed as he had no idea what we had done but we ended up compromising to only get a 1 year deal with our new board ($5 more a game per official) and the old group got to keep the girls games.
It only took 1 week for the county AD to see what a difference these guys made. The extra $10/game was money well spent.
Yeah that third rep with 110Lbs is a killer.
I have officiated both high school basketball and baseball here in Florida since 2005. Maybe I've just been lucky but at the high school level, I haven't encountered too many situations where the fans got unruly towards us. There's also a strong sportsmanship initiative here where players can be suspended multiple games for ejections and coaches/schools can be fined and suspended for ejection. As a result, I've only ejected 3 people in baseball (one was a rule book ejection for running over the catcher) and none in basketball in my 18 seasons. I've gotten to the point where I barely notice anything outside the lines, though I do still get a good giggle when some leather lung is screaming for 3 seconds when the ball is continuously bouncing on the rim or can call a tag play at 2nd base from his seat at ground level behind the plate better than I can standing 5 feet away. So at the high school level, I've felt pretty fortunate to not have to deal with too much stupidity. However, I'd love to have the arrangements that @Bison13 provides officials that work his school's games. It can sometimes be awkward to ask the coach of the home team who you just called a tough foul on to open the officials room door at halftime.
As for the youth/AAU level, I don't go looking for those games as much anymore. The difference in conduct both on the field/court and off is much more noticeable. One of my last youth baseball games that I worked, I had a coach ride me nearly the entire game and then come out to argue a call at the plate that he was grossly wrong about. I finally said -- loud enough for many to hear -- 'you do realize that you set the example for these kids to follow, right? Think about that.'. I had three different parents from that team say something to me after that game commending me for how I handled it. As often happens, it's the adults that ruin things and a lot of these parents and coaches think they're raising the next Griffey or Lebron or that they're going to be the next LaRussa or Popovich. Since this is where a lot of rookie officials get their start, I can certainly see why they'd be like, 'I don't need to put up with this crap for the little money I'm getting'.
As for the youth/AAU level, I don't go looking for those games as much anymore. The difference in conduct both on the field/court and off is much more noticeable. One of my last youth baseball games that I worked, I had a coach ride me nearly the entire game and then come out to argue a call at the plate that he was grossly wrong about. I finally said -- loud enough for many to hear -- 'you do realize that you set the example for these kids to follow, right? Think about that.'. I had three different parents from that team say something to me after that game commending me for how I handled it. As often happens, it's the adults that ruin things and a lot of these parents and coaches think they're raising the next Griffey or Lebron or that they're going to be the next LaRussa or Popovich. Since this is where a lot of rookie officials get their start, I can certainly see why they'd be like, 'I don't need to put up with this crap for the little money I'm getting'.
Next time you’re in Maryland, I’ll save you a parking spot and bring you a burger and Gatorade.
Alternative take: there are fewer umps, and fewer younger umps, because kids who would typically turn to umpiring to stay around the game after their playing careers were over, now have expanded opportunities in instructing/coaching due to the proliferation of AAU/travel programs.
Also, I see the videos of violent or threatening parents (and those are completely effed up and should never happen, obviously), but I haven't seen any of that firsthand. I may just be lucky, but it seems, to me, that this could be another example of extremist behavior looking more frequent, just because we now have everyone recording everything, and everything that's recorded being posted online.
In my experience, the whole youth sports experience is far less "confrontational" than it used to be. Kids used to be vicious in mocking/taunting the opposing teams, and now you can't say "boo" or it'll be looked at as unsportsmanlike. The same holds true for "umpire heckling." Decades ago, the comments directed at umps were basically white noise, they were so frequent and constant. Now, a parent will say one or two things, and an ump/ref will stop the whole production, and insult/chastise the parent/team. The only part of the youth sports experience that is more confrontational is the umpiring crews themselves.
90%+ of the local refs are quality. They're cordial. They're good (not perfect, or anywhere near, but they're trying and getting close enough). They know how to handle situations without blowing them up. I've gotten to know a bunch through the years by volunteering. Good guys. But that less than 10% portion (likely closer to 1-5%) ... oh man ... they're crap and they know it, so they're just looking for a fight. Kid beats a throw by 2 steps ... "Out!" Wut?! So, of course people are going to say something ... usually just a chorus of "he was so safe! c'mon ump!" sort of catcalls. Now, if you double down on that and blow another obvious call against the same team ... you're going to hear more pointed objections. At this point, some of these jokers are going to turn around and start chirping back at the coaches, players or parents. Some will threaten them "next comment I hear, you're out of here! I've umpired for 20 years, blah, blah, blah ..." They need to just shut up and make the correct calls, and nothing more will happen. Instead, they've just shown everyone they're weak, and it's usually a downward spiral from there.
Here's just one example of umps with a **** attitude and on a power trip: this kid (mid/late 20s) was coaching my son's travel squad. Former D1 kid and a current college assistant who was completely chill (too chill, in my book). Would sit on his ball bucket and relax most of the time during games. He was our only coach that day, as the assistant had some "emergency" and was running late. Field ump blows 2 awful calls. I mean, just real obvious. After the 2nd one, the coach (who has not complained once to an ump all season long) says, without getting up from his bucket, located just outside the dugout, "that's 2 you owe us, blue" ... the ump waves his hands, walks over to the coach and asks him if he's the only coach there. The coach says yes, and the ump says "You're not allowed on my field anymore! You need to coach from the dugout!" Everyone's confused. The coach is required to move his bucket into the dugout. He was going to toss him just for that comment, but didn't because he was the only coach. Later in the game, coach goes to make a mound visit and walk out, hesitates at the foul line and asks the ump, nicely, if he can approach the mound to talk with his pitcher. The ump stomps toward him and, says "You need to stay right there! You are not allowed on this field. You can do it from there." So the coach has to make a pitching change standing in foul territory.
Also, I see the videos of violent or threatening parents (and those are completely effed up and should never happen, obviously), but I haven't seen any of that firsthand. I may just be lucky, but it seems, to me, that this could be another example of extremist behavior looking more frequent, just because we now have everyone recording everything, and everything that's recorded being posted online.
In my experience, the whole youth sports experience is far less "confrontational" than it used to be. Kids used to be vicious in mocking/taunting the opposing teams, and now you can't say "boo" or it'll be looked at as unsportsmanlike. The same holds true for "umpire heckling." Decades ago, the comments directed at umps were basically white noise, they were so frequent and constant. Now, a parent will say one or two things, and an ump/ref will stop the whole production, and insult/chastise the parent/team. The only part of the youth sports experience that is more confrontational is the umpiring crews themselves.
90%+ of the local refs are quality. They're cordial. They're good (not perfect, or anywhere near, but they're trying and getting close enough). They know how to handle situations without blowing them up. I've gotten to know a bunch through the years by volunteering. Good guys. But that less than 10% portion (likely closer to 1-5%) ... oh man ... they're crap and they know it, so they're just looking for a fight. Kid beats a throw by 2 steps ... "Out!" Wut?! So, of course people are going to say something ... usually just a chorus of "he was so safe! c'mon ump!" sort of catcalls. Now, if you double down on that and blow another obvious call against the same team ... you're going to hear more pointed objections. At this point, some of these jokers are going to turn around and start chirping back at the coaches, players or parents. Some will threaten them "next comment I hear, you're out of here! I've umpired for 20 years, blah, blah, blah ..." They need to just shut up and make the correct calls, and nothing more will happen. Instead, they've just shown everyone they're weak, and it's usually a downward spiral from there.
Here's just one example of umps with a **** attitude and on a power trip: this kid (mid/late 20s) was coaching my son's travel squad. Former D1 kid and a current college assistant who was completely chill (too chill, in my book). Would sit on his ball bucket and relax most of the time during games. He was our only coach that day, as the assistant had some "emergency" and was running late. Field ump blows 2 awful calls. I mean, just real obvious. After the 2nd one, the coach (who has not complained once to an ump all season long) says, without getting up from his bucket, located just outside the dugout, "that's 2 you owe us, blue" ... the ump waves his hands, walks over to the coach and asks him if he's the only coach there. The coach says yes, and the ump says "You're not allowed on my field anymore! You need to coach from the dugout!" Everyone's confused. The coach is required to move his bucket into the dugout. He was going to toss him just for that comment, but didn't because he was the only coach. Later in the game, coach goes to make a mound visit and walk out, hesitates at the foul line and asks the ump, nicely, if he can approach the mound to talk with his pitcher. The ump stomps toward him and, says "You need to stay right there! You are not allowed on this field. You can do it from there." So the coach has to make a pitching change standing in foul territory.
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"The little money"?
Just talked with a guy who umps baseball, who also has a kid on my younger son's travel baseball team. I think he told me this year, for rec ball in his rinky dink town, 2-person crews are getting $80 each and a 1-person job is $125 or 135 per game. Maybe it's different elsewhere, but that's a good chunk of change to stand around umping 10 year old awful rec baseball.
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