HOF BASEBALL

[Sweetwatergolf]

Ortiz elected with failed 2003 PED test. Roger Clemens no failed test, just public opinion, not elected. He should be in, numbers are outstanding. Research on Mitchell report doesn't mention Ortiz, maybe because Mitchell's involvement with Red Sox organization? Clemens is possibly best right hand pitcher all time IMO.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

Not to engage in the debate, but Ortiz failed a PED test, whereas Clemens was mentioned 82 times in the Mitchell Report about steroid use in Baseball.

 

[GuitarCock]

We all know Bonds, Clemens and Rose are among the best ever ability wise. The HOF has a certain political angle that goes beyond ability and that's why they're not in

 

[King Ward]

Not to engage in the debate, but Ortiz failed a PED test, whereas Clemens was mentioned 82 times in the Mitchell Report about steroid use in Baseball.

Ah, now it's getting serious up in here.

 

[King Ward]

We all know Bonds, Clemens and Rose are among the best ever ability wise. The HOF has a certain political angle that goes beyond ability and that's why they're not in

I think there's the ideal of wholesomeness attached to baseball that the HOF ought to project. Now, Ty Cobb was not a wholesome fellow, but he avoided certain baggage. Hence, he's in. If he had lived and played later and put up great numbers, but was a known juicer or gambled on the sport while he was active in it, he wouldn't be in the HOF.

 

[ToddFlanders]

The baseball HOF has no meaning anymore. There's no consistency as to who gets in or gets left out.

They need to switch up the election process to be more like the Pro Football Hall of Fame. There are only 48 electors there. They can't hide their votes like a baseball writer can when they are one of 397. The 48 are all selected by the Hall itself, so the 48 are also more invested in trying to do a good job and they at least attempt to provide solid reasoning. They aren't set in stone either - the electors for the football hall of fame can get kicked off from voting at any time if they try and get political or try grandstanding.

Allowing a bunch of miserable idiots in a dying profession (baseball writing) to be the final say has made Cooperstown just another place.

 

[King Ward]

The baseball HOF has no meaning anymore. There's no consistency as to who gets in or gets left out.

They need to switch up the election process to be more like the Pro Football Hall of Fame. There are only 48 electors there. They can't hide their votes like a baseball writer can when they are one of 397. The 48 are all selected by the Hall itself, so the 48 are also more invested in trying to do a good job and they at least attempt to provide solid reasoning. They aren't set in stone either - the electors for the football hall of fame can get kicked off from voting at any time if they try and get political or try grandstanding.

Allowing a bunch of miserable idiots in a dying profession (baseball writing) to be the final say has made Cooperstown just another place.

I'd still like to visit. I understand Cooperstown is a pretty place.

 

[ToddFlanders]

I'd still like to visit. I understand Cooperstown is a pretty place.

Its a very picturesque place, and the building itself is nicely done. Definitely worth a trip to anyone that was a baseball fan of the 80’s and before. I would imagine It starts to lose its appeal to kids of the 90’s and beyond.

 

[Sweetwatergolf]

We all know Bonds, Clemens and Rose are among the best ever ability wise. The HOF has a certain political angle that goes beyond ability and that's why they're not in

The Mitchell Report was very biased and political as mentioned in your statement. No Red Sox players mentioned. Strictly heresy is why Clemens not in.

 

[King Ward]

The Mitchell Report was very biased and political as mentioned in your statement. No Red Sox players mentioned. Strictly heresy is why Clemens not in.

Refresh my memory, what's the deal with Clemens?

 

[Sweetwatergolf]

Refresh my memory, what's the deal with Clemens?

As I said earlier, numbers indicate probably best right handed pitcher. After 10 years not in HOF. Never failed a drug test, unlike Ortiz, just a BS report I mentioned earlier. It's my annual rant when the HOF players are announced.

 

[Carolina Steve]

Baseball is a noble game that should be played without benefit of enhancements. Like gambling on games (Pete Rose) PED's should never have been allowed. Who knows how many of Barry Bonds HR would have been fly balls without the juice ? He had awesome stats before the juice. A-rod got caught twice. For those who say that they should take the stats before the juice, I would offer this. Let's say, in golf, a PGA player played a front nine with no penalties (they call them on themselves BTW) . He shot a 40. He knows he has to score on the back nine to make the tournament. So he bends the rules(cheats)m maybe improves his lie. If the PGA catches him, he is DQ'ed. His front nine doesn't count. IMHO, it is the same with the HOF. No matter how good you were before, you cheated. You should not be in the hall. You made a conscious decision to cheat.


BTW @King Ward , Cooperstown is very much a small town. Smaller than you would think. The Hall is on the main street with Doubleday field right there.

 

[King Ward]

Baseball is a noble game that should be played without benefit of enhancements. Like gambling on games (Pete Rose) PED's should never have been allowed. Who knows how many of Barry Bonds HR would have been fly balls without the juice ? He had awesome stats before the juice. A-rod got caught twice. For those who say that they should take the stats before the juice, I would offer this. Let's say, in golf, a PGA player played a front nine with no penalties (they call them on themselves BTW) . He shot a 40. He knows he has to score on the back nine to make the tournament. So he bends the rules(cheats)m maybe improves his lie. If the PGA catches him, he is DQ'ed. His front nine doesn't count. IMHO, it is the same with the HOF. No matter how good you were before, you cheated. You should not be in the hall. You made a conscious decision to cheat.


BTW @King Ward , Cooperstown is very much a small town. Smaller than you would think. The Hall is on the main street with Doubleday field right there.

I hope I get there someday. I've been to New York City but never Upstate N.Y. I've heard good things.

 

[King Ward]

As I said earlier, numbers indicate probably best right handed pitcher. After 10 years not in HOF. Never failed a drug test, unlike Ortiz, just a BS report I mentioned earlier. It's my annual rant when the HOF players are announced.

I understand. He was named but not ever found to be positive. He would seem a shoe-in for the Hall.

 

[Sweetwatergolf]

Baseball is a noble game that should be played without benefit of enhancements. Like gambling on games (Pete Rose) PED's should never have been allowed. Who knows how many of Barry Bonds HR would have been fly balls without the juice ? He had awesome stats before the juice. A-rod got caught twice. For those who say that they should take the stats before the juice, I would offer this. Let's say, in golf, a PGA player played a front nine with no penalties (they call them on themselves BTW) . He shot a 40. He knows he has to score on the back nine to make the tournament. So he bends the rules(cheats)m maybe improves his lie. If the PGA catches him, he is DQ'ed. His front nine doesn't count. IMHO, it is the same with the HOF. No matter how good you were before, you cheated. You should not be in the hall. You made a conscious decision to cheat.


BTW @King Ward , Cooperstown is very much a small town. Smaller than you would think. The Hall is on the main street with Doubleday field right there.

Clemens never failed a test, just accusations in a report wrote by Mitchell.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

The Mitchell Report was very biased and political as mentioned in your statement. No Red Sox players mentioned. Strictly heresy is why Clemens not in.

I'm interested as to how you came to this conclusion. Can you site specifics to support this claim.

 

[Sweetwatergolf]

I'm interested as to how you came to this conclusion. Can you site specifics to support this claim.

Read the report, you make your own conclusion as other others did when this report came out. Again, Ortiz in with PED failed test. Clemens no failed test.
Not to debate any further IMO.

 

[King Ward]

This matter is engendering vitriol.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

Read the report, you make your own conclusion as other others did when this report came out. Again, Ortiz in with PED failed test. Clemens no failed test.
Not to debate any further IMO.

Ah, I see. So it was up to your interpretation.

 

[Carolina Steve]

Clemens never failed a test, just accusations in a report wrote by Mitchell.

Never mentioned Clemens. If he juiced, he should not be in. If he didn’t, he certainly belongs in there. But neither you nor i know if he did

 

[King Ward]

Never mentioned Clemens. If he juiced, he should not be in. If he didn’t, he certainly belongs in there. But neither you nor i know if he did

I think the point is whether or not he is a proven juicer. If there's no documentary or otherwise first-hand corroborated testimonial evidence of it, he ought to go in.

 

[Carolina Steve]

I think the point is whether or not he is a proven juicer. If there's no documentary or otherwise first-hand corroborated testimonial evidence of it, he ought to go in.

King. I agree 100%. I tried to convey that but failed to be clear. No juice, no problem come on in. If they chose to juice, they forfeited the right to be considered by their own hand .

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

I think the point is whether or not he is a proven juicer. If there's no documentary or otherwise first-hand corroborated testimonial evidence of it, he ought to go in.

His trainer Brian McNamee testified on the witness stand that her personally injected Clemens with HGH's. This trainer at one time actually lived in RC's apt at the Skydome for a time with him.
Now whether one chooses to believe him is another matter altogether.

 

[Neanderthal]

His trainer Brian McNamee testified on the witness stand that her personally injected Clemens with HGH's. This trainer at one time actually lived in RC's apt at the Skydome for a time with him.
Now whether one chooses to believe him is another matter altogether.

Some sins are forgiven. Some are not.

 

[King Ward]

His trainer Brian McNamee testified on the witness stand that her personally injected Clemens with HGH's. This trainer at one time actually lived in RC's apt at the Skydome for a time with him.
Now whether one chooses to believe him is another matter altogether.

This would require corroboration in my judgment. Not saying it isn't true, only that corroboration is needed before definitive action is taken. Just my opinion. It's one person's word against another with no supporting evidence.

 

[Carolina Steve]

This would require corroboration in my judgment. Not saying it isn't true, only that corroboration is needed before definitive action is taken. Just my opinion. It's one person's word against another with no supporting evidence.

If his head ended up being 60 pounds like Bonds did, it would be kind of obvious. I don’t recall Clemens bulking up. Does anyone remember him growing?

 

[Horseshoe04]

Some sins are forgiven. Some are not.

I think another strike or work stoppage would help folks really understand the struggles of major league ball players

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

And yet Curt Schilling is left off again...

Curt Schilling 3 World Series Championships and no steroid problem
Roger Clemons 2 World Series Championships with steroid issues
Barry Bonds 0 World Series Championships with steroid issues

David Ortiz 3 World Series Championships Got in HOF


In a statement, Clemens said, "My family and I put the [Hall of Fame] in the rearview mirror 10 years ago. I didn't play baseball to get into the [Hall of Fame]. I played to make a generational difference in the lives of my family. Then focus on winning championships while giving back to my community and the fans as well. It was my passion. I gave it all I had, the right way, for my family and for the fans who supported me."

Ortiz accepts Hall call; Bonds, Clemens shut out

With the class being announced Tuesday night, former Boston Red Sox slugger David Ortiz was the lone player to receive the necessary votes for election into the Baseball Hall of Fame this year, while Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens fell short.

www.espn.com