Home solar panels

Trojanbulldog19

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2014
8,859
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Anyone done this? Wondering how well they do. Looking at doing a powerwall and comparing to natural gas whole home generator for back up power for outages and also energy savings. With our electric bill being crazy last year and ahead of this year not looking great. Also we have hurricanes so I'm wondering how they hold up in high wind.
 

The Cooterpoot

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2022
4,164
6,755
113
It's expensive but if there's a government subsidy it might work out. In FL it's growing but it's really still expensive.
 

woozman

Well-known member
Nov 13, 2004
2,151
711
113
Anyone done this? Wondering how well they do. Looking at doing a powerwall and comparing to natural gas whole home generator for back up power for outages and also energy savings. With our electric bill being crazy last year and ahead of this year not looking great. Also we have hurricanes so I'm wondering how they hold up in high wind.
We were interested and researched last year. Scheduled an in-home consultation. $44K to get it set up. I actually thought the guy was joking when he quoted me.
 

aTotal360

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2009
18,732
7,503
113
Anyone done this? Wondering how well they do. Looking at doing a powerwall and comparing to natural gas whole home generator for back up power for outages and also energy savings. With our electric bill being crazy last year and ahead of this year not looking great. Also we have hurricanes so I'm wondering how they hold up in high wind.
May also void your warranty on your roof.
 
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jxndawg

Member
Dec 26, 2009
198
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Anyone done this? Wondering how well they do. Looking at doing a powerwall and comparing to natural gas whole home generator for back up power for outages and also energy savings. With our electric bill being crazy last year and ahead of this year not looking great. Also we have hurricanes so I'm wondering how they hold up in high wind.
I did some back-of-the-envelope math on this a few yrs ago and just couldn’t make it work. Even with whatever tax incentives were available at the time, it was so high that it would’ve taken way too long to get my money back. Think it was like 15-20 years but don’t quote me.
 

Leeshouldveflanked

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2016
11,137
4,886
113
Clean Efficient Natural Gas could be a game changer for US in the foreseeable future, but unfortunately it doesnt fit the narrative. Combine it with Nuclear power and we could bridge the energy gap until Solar becomes a feasible alternative. Current Solar and Wind Technology is causing more harm to the environment than Natural gas would.
 

Jacknut

Member
Sep 29, 2022
158
192
43
If you've got the coin, solar panels are nice. The battery backup will be half the cost if you go that route. Just the panels were going to be $20k on my house and at the time I checked TN had no subsidies.

My friend across the street just got a dual fuel generator on wheels and had an electrician install a cutoff where he can plug it into the house power. About $2,500 all in.
 

DirtyDog

Member
Aug 24, 2012
520
14
18
I checked into solar panels for my home, and to generate the same power that I use monthly with some battery backup, they quoted me almost $60K. The break even point based upon my monthly electric bill was 15-20 years, and the panels are only rated for 10-15 years. Thus, I deemed it uneconomical for Mississippi at this time. They'll either have to reduce the cost of panels or installation to make it worthwhile, not to mention the risk of newer technology not regularly used locally.
 
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KentuckyDawg13

Active member
Aug 15, 2006
1,729
365
83
I had a solar install company (AMP Smart) come by yesterday and offer to install all the equipment needed (no battery though, said they are now considered a luxury) at no additional costs and you just have to agree to paying your fixed power bill for certain finance terms. Sort of like car payment, you pay a fixed amount (average cost of your bill) for a certain time frame (5-10 yrs) and once paid, the equipment is yours thus the solar power that is generated is free. If you need more, then you pay per usual.

I had limited time to understand the details and scheduled another time to discuss with my wife’s ears there too. It’s a newer business model for those reluctant to spend $50k for the equipment. Plus with the Federal Solar credits/rebates available, this is the time to jump on solar.

For those spouting nuclear and gas, you really need to read more. Gas is one of the most inefficient sources out there and with nuclear fuel waste issues is not even worth discussing.
 

willi13

Member
Sep 24, 2003
668
250
43
We just went solar. We have 30 panels going strong. After the government check, it cost about $20k. I do not have a power bill to pay again…ever! The battery packs are being installed within the month.
Since we live close to the beach, we do not have natural gas. To have a whole house generator, we would have to install a gas tank for a generator. The cost for that was quoted at $25k for everything.
Going solar made way more sense for us.
 

aTotal360

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2009
18,732
7,503
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To me, it's all about figuring out if you are in your "forever home". At $25k it's going to take 8.3 years to break even if your bill is around $250/mo. I've never lived in a house for 8 years, though I'm getting close in my current one.

You also have to factor in repairs and have contingency plans.

IMO it's a viable solution for some people, but not for most.
 

patdog

Well-known member
May 28, 2007
48,312
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Might work for some people, but I think it's still very limited right now. Projection for my home is initial cost of $17,010, after tax credit. Estimated 25-year energy savings of $19,474. So only about $100/year of net savings. And that's if everything goes perfectly and the roof lasts 25 years.

I think 50 years from now, most everyone will power their houses with solar. But the technology has to get a lot better and cheaper first.
 

PooPopsBaldHead

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2017
7,952
4,999
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To me, it's all about figuring out if you are in your "forever home". At $25k it's going to take 8.3 years to break even if your bill is around $250/mo. I've never lived in a house for 8 years, though I'm getting close in my current one.

You also have to factor in repairs and have contingency plans.

IMO it's a viable solution for some people, but not for most.
Don't forget about the time value of money. That $25k could be invested and you could draw your payment out over time.

The S&P has a historical return of about 7.5% after inflation. If you put your $25k in that and drew it down $250 a month, you would get close to a 13 year payback period.

Screenshot_20230516-095848.png
Add in the extra costs of maintenance and upkeep on the solar panels and you are probably looking at over 15 years. So in terms of strictly as a good investment probably not. But neither is a a nice kitchen remodel, but if you have the money and want either, jump on it. And unlike a kitchen remodel, it is a great hedge in case electricity skyrockets in the next decade, which is possible with both international and national political risks in the energy trade.

I watched a video a year ago or so where some guy broke it all down and around $.20 per kwh electricity cost is where home solar systems really started to look attractive as a cost savings tool. Here's a list by state with their average KWH costs in 2023.

Electricity Cost By State
 
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paco.sixpack

New member
Aug 12, 2013
37
15
7
Anyone done this? Wondering how well they do. Looking at doing a powerwall and comparing to natural gas whole home generator for back up power for outages and also energy savings. With our electric bill being crazy last year and ahead of this year not looking great. Also we have hurricanes so I'm wondering how they hold up in high wind.
I recommend spending $9 on "Solar Consumer Guidebook" from Gateway Press. This book helps the consumer discern whether solar makes sense in their investment portfolio. No offense but someone that says "it cost too much" is a person that doesn't have a clue. Solar is an investment, not an expense. There is a Return-on-Investment tied to the solar decision.
 
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ababyatemydingo

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2008
2,921
1,538
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I recommend spending $9 on "Solar Consumer Guidebook" from Gateway Press. This book helps the consumer discern whether solar makes sense in their investment portfolio. No offense but someone that says "it cost too much" is a person that doesn't have a clue. Solar is an investment, not an expense. There is a Return-on-Investment tied to the solar decision.
very few people are in their "forever house". unless someone falls into that category, no, solar is absolutely not an investment. they'll never see a return. I know a couple that got a solar system installed on their house, and they told me that it about covers the cost of running their pool pump year round, and that's it. That doesn't even take into consideration opportunity cost and time value of money.
 
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patdog

Well-known member
May 28, 2007
48,312
11,948
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B.S. You just prepaid 8-9 years of power bills. Congratulations?
And about 4 years later, it’ll be time to replace the solar roof and start over. Not to mention, there will still be power bills for connecting to the grid & access to a backup source of electricity.
 
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IBleedMaroonDawg

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2007
23,095
7,109
113
It's getting popular in Texas in neighborhoods where our houses have squeezed out the trees and developers have started growing concrete. The Concrete is why we are looking to move, but I wouldn't mind considering a bank of panels mounted together away from the house. I'm just not sure I want them on my roof.
 

ababyatemydingo

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2008
2,921
1,538
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It's getting popular in Texas in neighborhoods where our houses have squeezed out the trees and developers have started growing concrete. The Concrete is why we are looking to move, but I wouldn't mind considering a bank of panels mounted together away from the house. I'm just not sure I want them on my roof.
We're gonna build our forever house on a 120 acres. This is what I'm gonna do. Put in 30 panels away from the house. Just to diversify a little to hedge future power bills. I can afford to pay it all up front, so not worrying about financing costs or anything. My lawyer is finalizing a 31 year lease to lease another 160 acres I own to a company out of NC that is partnering with MS Power to build a 1000 acre (give or take a few) solar farm in east central MS. Very similar to the one in Drew, MS. They're giving me $750 / acre for 31 years with an option for 10 more years. With an acceleration clause after 5 years, and they're picking up the taxes. That's a better return than I can get with timber. I have two years to get the timber cut and I keep that revenue.
 

PooPopsBaldHead

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2017
7,952
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We're gonna build our forever house on a 120 acres. This is what I'm gonna do. Put in 30 panels away from the house. Just to diversify a little to hedge future power bills. I can afford to pay it all up front, so not worrying about financing costs or anything. My lawyer is finalizing a 31 year lease to lease another 160 acres I own to a company out of NC that is partnering with MS Power to build a 1000 acre (give or take a few) solar farm in east central MS. Very similar to the one in Drew, MS. They're giving me $750 / acre for 31 years with an option for 10 more years. With an acceleration clause after 5 years, and they're picking up the taxes. That's a better return than I can get with timber. I have two years to get the timber cut and I keep that revenue.
Good for you. That's a dámn fine deal to get $750 acre without having to mess with the timber.

Of course, being that you are a Mississippi State fan and I am sure like the rest of us, you made some dead injun deals after game 1 of the CWS finals against Vandy. Your 20lbs of flesh will likely be coming due and you should be prepared for pine sawtimber to 10x to $300/ton just a few years after you clear cut that 160 acres.***
 

RiverCityDawg

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2009
2,118
2,399
113
I had a solar install company (AMP Smart) come by yesterday and offer to install all the equipment needed (no battery though, said they are now considered a luxury) at no additional costs and you just have to agree to paying your fixed power bill for certain finance terms. Sort of like car payment, you pay a fixed amount (average cost of your bill) for a certain time frame (5-10 yrs) and once paid, the equipment is yours thus the solar power that is generated is free. If you need more, then you pay per usual.

I had limited time to understand the details and scheduled another time to discuss with my wife’s ears there too. It’s a newer business model for those reluctant to spend $50k for the equipment. Plus with the Federal Solar credits/rebates available, this is the time to jump on solar.

For those spouting nuclear and gas, you really need to read more. Gas is one of the most inefficient sources out there and with nuclear fuel waste issues is not even worth discussing.
Gas is most inefficient in what way? You think wind and solar are efficient? How many acres of land would you have to use to build a solar farm big enough to produce the same amount of power as a 1200 MW gas plant? Or how about wind farms, which just start dropping blades or burning up nacelles after about 8 years? Not to mention solar doesn't work at night and the wind doesn't always blow for the wind turbines, so even if producing the same amount of power, they aren't as reliable as a gas plant. Battery technology has to come a LONG way for those sources to be reliable, and that's very dependent upon China who aren't the most forthcoming with their testing and standards.

There's no perfect answer, but gas and nuclear are critical. I'm optimistic about modular nuclear down the road. The waste is a non-issue in the scheme of things. There is a place for renewables in the mix, but we would all be better off if more money was spent on R&D to make them actually competitive and cost efficient instead of just throwing more tax credits at production of poor technology. The whole industry is currently propped up by poor ESG logic, tax credits, Tax equity, hopes and dreams.
 

BoDawg.sixpack

Well-known member
Feb 5, 2010
4,337
1,392
113
Another thing about nuclear is that manned and unmanned flights to the moon are getting to be cheaper and more feasible. We can bury nuclear waste there along with other environmental contaminants. The moon will make a great trash dump that will help keep earth cleaner in the decades and centuries to come.
 

johnson86-1

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2012
12,231
2,451
113
more attic insulation, new windows, seal doors
This is the answer for most people. You get a much bigger bang for your buck doing this, and once you do this, it's harder for solar to make sense b/c your utility bills will be lower.

That said, if you have a ton of windows, your bang for your buck will be smaller b/c that's where your energy loss will be, so that makes solar more likely to make sense. Also, while electricity prices have historicaly increased lower than general inflation, that's probably less likely to be the case going forward as we load more regulatory mandates on them.

If you get the 30% federal tax credit and then get a net metering subsidy from your utility company, and have a house that is by its nature going to be energy inefficient, it's a lot more likely to make sense. Especially if you're in an area that isn't prone to hail or wind that would cause roof damage. Do need to be aware that the net metering subsidy will come under political pressure as more people benefit from it as it will become more expensive for non-solar users.
 

The Peeper

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2008
12,081
5,292
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Gas is most inefficient in what way? You think wind and solar are efficient? How many acres of land would you have to use to build a solar farm big enough to produce the same amount of power as a 1200 MW gas plant? Or how about wind farms, which just start dropping blades or burning up nacelles after about 8 years? Not to mention solar doesn't work at night and the wind doesn't always blow for the wind turbines, so even if producing the same amount of power, they aren't as reliable as a gas plant. Battery technology has to come a LONG way for those sources to be reliable, and that's very dependent upon China who aren't the most forthcoming with their testing and standards.

There's no perfect answer, but gas and nuclear are critical. I'm optimistic about modular nuclear down the road. The waste is a non-issue in the scheme of things. There is a place for renewables in the mix, but we would all be better off if more money was spent on R&D to make them actually competitive and cost efficient instead of just throwing more tax credits at production of poor technology. The whole industry is currently propped up by poor ESG logic, tax credits, Tax equity, hopes and dreams.

Floating solar farms are moving to the US from Asia. Edited to say how the heck am I supposed to get my bass boat through all of that?


1684262411167.png
 

Seinfeld

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2006
9,528
3,561
113
I did some back-of-the-envelope math on this a few yrs ago and just couldn’t make it work. Even with whatever tax incentives were available at the time, it was so high that it would’ve taken way too long to get my money back. Think it was like 15-20 years but don’t quote me.
Same. It’s all about the payback period which will vary based what’s installed, local cost of energy, etc, but I came up with 17 years(no joke) which just didn’t make sense for us.

The other thing to be wary of is that these solar companies don’t exactly have reputations for being around for decades. In other words, they can spend hours telling you all about service plans, warranties, and guarantees, but if they go bankrupt next year, none of that is gonna matter
 

horshack.sixpack

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2012
9,063
5,067
113
We just went solar. We have 30 panels going strong. After the government check, it cost about $20k. I do not have a power bill to pay again…ever! The battery packs are being installed within the month.
Since we live close to the beach, we do not have natural gas. To have a whole house generator, we would have to install a gas tank for a generator. The cost for that was quoted at $25k for everything.
Going solar made way more sense for us.
What size/KWh capability did you install?
 

PhredPhantom

Well-known member
Mar 3, 2008
932
564
93
Gas is most inefficient in what way? You think wind and solar are efficient? How many acres of land would you have to use to build a solar farm big enough to produce the same amount of power as a 1200 MW gas plant? Or how about wind farms, which just start dropping blades or burning up nacelles after about 8 years? Not to mention solar doesn't work at night and the wind doesn't always blow for the wind turbines, so even if producing the same amount of power, they aren't as reliable as a gas plant. Battery technology has to come a LONG way for those sources to be reliable, and that's very dependent upon China who aren't the most forthcoming with their testing and standards.

There's no perfect answer, but gas and nuclear are critical. I'm optimistic about modular nuclear down the road. The waste is a non-issue in the scheme of things. There is a place for renewables in the mix, but we would all be better off if more money was spent on R&D to make them actually competitive and cost efficient instead of just throwing more tax credits at production of poor technology. The whole industry is currently propped up by poor ESG logic, tax credits, Tax equity, hopes and dreams.
Speaking of nuclear, I wish someone would build some Thorium reactors. They’re safer and the fuel is super-plentiful here in the US but nobody will build one because the fuel is so cheap that there’s not much profit once different companies begin competing with them. That doesn’t sound like it makes sense but apparently it does. Or maybe I just don’t understand what I’ve heard about them.
 
Jul 26, 2021
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Clean Efficient Natural Gas could be a game changer for US in the foreseeable future, but unfortunately it doesnt fit the narrative. Combine it with Nuclear power and we could bridge the energy gap until Solar becomes a feasible alternative. Current Solar and Wind Technology is causing more harm to the environment than Natural gas would.

Lol. Sorry. Almost propane and propane accessories!!
 

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