Contact after a clean block on a jump shot is called a foul all the time.
Contact after a clean block on a fast break is almost never called a foul.
Contact after a clean block on a fast break is almost never called a foul.
I continue to not understand why contact after a clean block on a fast break is not usually called a foul
- Thread starter mstateglfr
- Start date
You and me both both. There are numerous fouls called every game that have everything to do with body contact and nothing to do with what's happening around the ball. Why refs suddenly feel that a full fledged body tackle is ok as long as contact with the ball up top was clean is absolutely beyond me
Refs are actually taught this, for play in the paint.
if the block up top is clean. They give leeway to the contact down below.
Been called this way for a few years. Not sure why its a shock.
if the block up top is clean. They give leeway to the contact down below.
Been called this way for a few years. Not sure why its a shock.
It isnt a shock, it is me continuing to not understand the justification. Thats why I said 'continue to not understand why'- I am aware of it and it still doesnt make sense.
This is especially true since the contact wasnt just to Hubbard's lower body- he was hit on the head and the entire side of his body. In an era when contact to the head became a big deal to watch for, even inadvertent contact, players can get hit and landed on after a fast break...and nothing from the refs.
I don't know what the rule is, but if you can't complete the block without hitting the lower body on the way down and bludgeoning the head of the shooter while landing, then you committed a foul.
And the ref was standing right there staring at it.
But, it definitely wouldn't have made a difference.
I don’t have a problem with a little leeway either. The defender’s hip bumping into a player’s side while making the block up top, for example. No problem
On the other hand, crashing into a player with so much force that he falls to the floor, then landing on top of him while elbowing him in the head… if that’s not a foul, I don’t know what is
The finish you cant officiate. In other words. They were both up in the air and its impossible to know where hubbard will land.
Its much like two guys going up for a rebound. One falls to the ground. The other lands on top of him or has some sort of contact with him as he comes baack to the ground, its not a foul on the person landing on the guy who doesnt have the ball.... its a play on.. same here.
And yet the finish is officiated on shots all the time, so that excuse is...an excuse.
A shooter rises up, a defender closes out and jumps to contest the shot, and there is contact after the ball is released. That is a foul every time, especially if the defender's contact sends the shooter to the ground.
They are both up in the air, yet it isnt impossible to know where the shooter will land.
Further, Hubbard and most every person that is knocked over on a fast break after a clean block is allowed to land without contact. Its in the rules- its a foul if the shooter cant land without interference, and if the defender isnt established and straight up.
Where the shooter is going to land has to be taken into consideration because shooters have the right to land without interference.
This really is as simple as- if the defender cant block the shot without running into the shooter after the initial block, its a foul. And if there is contact to the head, then refs should review if it is a common foul, a flagrant 1 foul, or flagrant 2 foul.
You wouldnt lose that because it doesnt need to be a foul every time.
This isnt a situation where there are only 2 options- either free reign to make contact, send the shooter off balance, and land on the player...or be called for a foul every time.
Players block shots without fouling all the time. It happens on fast breaks and half court layups all the time.
If fouls were called when the there is contact to the shooter, especially when the shooter is knocked off balance and falls or even slams into the goal padding, then defenders would have to adjust and decide when and how to try and track down a fast break.
Your answer is bonkers- 'yes its a foul, and yes players do get hurt from it, but its exciting so I am good the rules being ignored.'
Again..
A shooter has protection on shots if he stays within his circle during the shot (straight up/straight down for arugments sake). If a shooter sticks a leg out or jumps into a defender.. he loses this.
Since the layup isnt a straight up and down movement... the finish cant be officiated
A shooter has protection on shots if he stays within his circle during the shot (straight up/straight down for arugments sake). If a shooter sticks a leg out or jumps into a defender.. he loses this.
Since the layup isnt a straight up and down movement... the finish cant be officiated
Answer isnt bonkers. Its this:
In the paint where more contact happens. If the block is clean up top. Leeway is given down low.
Your entire argument about landing again isnt applicable. For reasons posted in the previous post. And we certainly arent going to judge a foul based on how hard someone was slammed into the padding.. especially when they are charging at full speed toward said padding.
That block was the play of the game. That would have brought the game to within 4.
Example a person shooting a floater in the lane….. Since he is on the move and did not maintain the principle of verticality. him landing on someone or not have a clean position to land is no longer afforded to
Him
and… if he were to land awkwardly, fall to the floor, and someone else step on him or trip on him. That person isn’t going to receive a foul for it…:
same applies here
Him
and… if he were to land awkwardly, fall to the floor, and someone else step on him or trip on him. That person isn’t going to receive a foul for it…:
same applies here
Someone should let the refs know they are officiating wrong when they blow their whistles and call fouls due to contact after the shot on half court layups. After all, the finish cant be officiated.
This is also good to know for next season. Jans needs to teach the team that any time they are defending a player that drives the lane and releases a floater, a turnaround, or a layup, they need to wait for the ball to be released and then they can 17ing tackle the shooter since the finish cant be officiated.
Again, read what’s written my friend. Then read the rule book.
call was fine. Hubbard needs to learn to finish at the rim better.
call was fine. Hubbard needs to learn to finish at the rim better.
Oh my gosh.
- If the defender is established and goes straight up, then the shooter running into the defender isnt called a foul because the defender has stayed within their cylinder of space and they have the right to occupy that space above themselves too.
- What happened with Hubbard on the fast break is not at all the principle of verticality. Hubbard was in front, the defender was trailing, the defender jumped forward and cleanly blocked the shot, but then made contact with Hubbard's head and body while sending Hubbard to the ground.
That isnt an instance of the principle of verticality.
You are arguing this based on the defender having established position and going straight up. That isnt at all what happened with Hubbard or what happens during a chase down fast break block.
I mean, one has the defender between the shooter and basket while the other has the defender trailing the shooter. You do see those are fundamentally different, right?
Im through arguing. Obviously the offical standing right on the play agreed with the rules and ME, that it wasn’t a foul.
I’m not arguing on the defenders verticality. Saying that Hubbard doesn’t have that when he is shooting a lay up because he isn’t going up and down.
anyway enjoy the rest of your day.
I’m not arguing on the defenders verticality. Saying that Hubbard doesn’t have that when he is shooting a lay up because he isn’t going up and down.
anyway enjoy the rest of your day.
A defender is not allowed to slide under a shooter when the shooter is in the air. It is a foul because it is dangerous(angle roll) and the shooter is entitled to unimpeded landing space.
See below- a defender cant invade the shooter's space and a shooter is allowed to land without interference, if the defender isnt established and straight up. That is what I posted in the paragraph you said is nowhere in the rules.
https://www.ncaa.org/news/2023/6/8/media-center-change-to-legal-guarding-position-approved-for-mens-basketball.aspx
Under the new rule, a defender will have to be in position to draw a charge at the time an offensive player plants a foot to go airborne to attempt a field goal. If the defender arrives after the offensive player plants a foot to launch toward the basket, officials will be instructed to call a block when contact occurs between the two players.
Previously, defenders had to be in position to draw a charge before the offensive player went airborne.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/sports/2016/10/17/ncaa-rules-tweaks-likely-change-how-we-watch-hoops-again/92302488/
The vertical cylinder basically refers to a player’s personal space, and a defender may not invade that space when an offensive player is making a “normal” basketball move.
The player’s personal bubble, a defined by the NCAA, reaches to the ceiling.
I don't even question refereeing anymore. Players walk, carry the ball, take 3 or even 4 steps shooting or passing and aren't called for it. Who cares if a player is knocked unconscious after his shot is spectacularly blocked? ***
Kansas game - Samford playing for the upset, same play, a clean block and they call the foul. We got screwed.
www.espn.com
Samford coach 'not faulting' refs' critical foul call
Samford coach Bucky McMillan was careful not to lay blame on the officials after A.J. Staton-McCray was called for a foul when he attempted to block a dunk late in Thursday's first-round loss to Kansas.
www.espn.com
that is a garbage call and very bad for the brand of the tourney. There is no doubt what that was all about.Kansas game - Samford playing for the upset, same play, a clean block and they call the foul. We got screwed.
Samford coach 'not faulting' refs' critical foul call
Samford coach Bucky McMillan was careful not to lay blame on the officials after A.J. Staton-McCray was called for a foul when he attempted to block a dunk late in Thursday's first-round loss to Kansas.
Hubbard is a freshman. If freshmen come into college having nothing to work on.... well those are called millionaires because they usually go pro. He has several things to improve upon... defense, shot selection, using screens, etc.
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