Imagine someone like Hugh Freeze baptizing you....

Drebin

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Hugh's problem is that he doesn't learn. When the inevitable scandal happens, stuff like this will be remembered and played back. It just makes the fall that much farther. But hell, he came back from the first one and he's cashing some big checks, so I guess the laugh's on the rest of us.
 

horshack.sixpack

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OG Goat Holder

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I am a Christian, but I can see the beef that the atheist group has here. If they want to do some baptizing, that's fine, but do it outside the Auburn platform.

Clemson is big about this sort of thing too.

It's irritating to me, because while this technically isn't prosperity gospel, that evangelical feel-good stuff distorts what it really means to be a Christian. Outside of Freeze and his sleaze.
 

johnson86-1

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I am a Christian, but I can see the beef that the atheist group has here. If they want to do some baptizing, that's fine, but do it outside the Auburn platform.

Clemson is big about this sort of thing too.

It's irritating to me, because while this technically isn't prosperity gospel, that evangelical feel-good stuff distorts what it really means to be a Christian. Outside of Freeze and his sleaze.
I don't really have a problem with it. It's not high school. These are ostensibly adults. And while the name Auburn is in the title, I'm assuming the group is something like campus crusade. I get the concern that coaches will mistreat athletes that don't follow their religion, but the same concern exists for coaches that are LGBQT and active in promoting them. I suspect many more female athletes have been discriminated against for traditional christian views on sexuality and would be discriminated against much more often if they didn't toe the line. But I still don't think you can prevent coaches from participating in LBGQT related campus groups.
 
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LOTRGOTDAWGFAN

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I don't really have a problem with it. It's not high school. These are ostensibly adults. And while the name Auburn is in the title, I'm assuming the group is something like campus crusade. I get the concern that coaches will mistreat athletes that don't follow their religion, but the same concern exists for coaches that are LGBQT and active in promoting them. I suspect many more female athletes have been discriminated against for traditional christian views on sexuality and would be discriminated against much more often if they didn't toe the line. But I still don't think you can prevent coaches from participating in LBGQT related campus groups.
what would make this story much more intriguing is if the satanic temple showed up on campus offering free unbaptizms for anyone who received it from freeze. they could call it...the unfreezing process!!!!
 
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T-TownDawgg

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Hugh's problem is that he doesn't learn. When the inevitable scandal happens, stuff like this will be remembered and played back. It just makes the fall that much farther. But hell, he came back from the first one and he's cashing some big checks, so I guess the laugh's on the rest of us.
This. How can you claim to be genuine when you can indict yourself with your own narratives?.

The narrative was he was weakened and called the hookers (I believe it was for recruits, but that's another debate entirely). He admitted that being a coach takes a lot from a family and a marriage, and big time coaching can screw up your priorities and you can screw up your family, and thus resigned. If his weakness is exploited by his position of being a big time football coach, and he resigns, he sure as hell did everything he could to climb that ladder again.

17 that charlatan. Apparently the money and power of being a big time football god is worth your soul and anyone naive enough to follow you.
 

HailStout

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I just don’t understand why everyone gets so angry. If atheist have a convention and use Mississippi states name associated with it, who cares. Same with any religion, including Christianity. As long as they are not hurting anybody, everyone just needs to leave everyone else alone.

besides freeze, 17 that guy
 

Mobile Bay

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This. How can you claim to be genuine when you can indict yourself with your own narratives?.

The narrative was he was weakened and called the hookers (I believe it was for recruits, but that's another debate entirely). He admitted that being a coach takes a lot from a family and a marriage, and big time coaching can screw up your priorities and you can screw up your family, and thus resigned. If his weakness is exploited by his position of being a big time football coach, and he resigns, he sure as hell did everything he could to climb that ladder again.

17 that charlatan. Apparently the money and power of being a big time football god is worth your soul and anyone naive enough to follow you.
The only reason that narrative has stuck is buying hookers for you is a misdemeanor that gets you fired. Buying hookers for recruits who are under 18 gets you federal prison time.
 

DerHntr

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I don't really have a problem with it. It's not high school. These are ostensibly adults. And while the name Auburn is in the title, I'm assuming the group is something like campus crusade. I get the concern that coaches will mistreat athletes that don't follow their religion, but the same concern exists for coaches that are LGBQT and active in promoting them. I suspect many more female athletes have been discriminated against for traditional christian views on sexuality and would be discriminated against much more often if they didn't toe the line. But I still don't think you can prevent coaches from participating in LBGQT related campus groups.
Let’s compare apples to apples though. I think you don’t find it a big deal because I’m guessing you’re Christian (same here). Let’s change this up a bit.

On Thursday, the Freedom From Religion Foundation issued what they refer to as a warning to Auburn head football coach Hugh Freeze, as well as head baseball coach Butch Thompson and head basketball coach Bruce Pearl, for their involvement in the "Unite Auburn" event. The event welcomed more than 100 people into the Auburn Islamic Center. The students recited that there is only one God, Muhammad, who created the entire universe and therefore these students became Muslim. The event was organized by Tonya Prewett and her husband Chad Prewett, Auburn’s assistant men’s basketball coach. Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey posted in support of Auburn Friday morning, writing "As governor, I can assure you Alabama will never be intimidated by out-of-state interest groups dedicated to destroying our nation’s religious heritage."


Do you think the governor, the parents and the media would be handling this story the same way? I don’t. You are right that these students are adults and can do what they want, but putting yourself in the shoes of some folks who think this is overreach isn’t that difficult. I’m not scared to admit that I would be livid if multiple head and assistant coaches tried to convert my kids to a different religion.
 

johnson86-1

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Let’s compare apples to apples though. I think you don’t find it a big deal because I’m guessing you’re Christian (same here). Let’s change this up a bit.

On Thursday, the Freedom From Religion Foundation issued what they refer to as a warning to Auburn head football coach Hugh Freeze, as well as head baseball coach Butch Thompson and head basketball coach Bruce Pearl, for their involvement in the "Unite Auburn" event. The event welcomed more than 100 people into the Auburn Islamic Center. The students recited that there is only one God, Muhammad, who created the entire universe and therefore these students became Muslim. The event was organized by Tonya Prewett and her husband Chad Prewett, Auburn’s assistant men’s basketball coach. Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey posted in support of Auburn Friday morning, writing "As governor, I can assure you Alabama will never be intimidated by out-of-state interest groups dedicated to destroying our nation’s religious heritage."


Do you think the governor, the parents and the media would be handling this story the same way? I don’t. You are right that these students are adults and can do what they want, but putting yourself in the shoes of some folks who think this is overreach isn’t that difficult. I’m not scared to admit that I would be livid if multiple head and assistant coaches tried to convert my kids to a different religion.
If Chad and Tonya Prewett are not doing it as part of their work duties, and the process they use is open to any group on campus, I'm still fine with it.
Same as if it were Chad and Danny Prewett and instead it was an organization pushing LGBTQ issues.

If the the group starts claiming infidels shouldn't be allowed to take classes or work at Auburn or that anybody with traditional views on sexuality shouldn't be welcome as a student or employee at Auburn, I think participating is a different. But as long as they are not advocating for discriminatory treatment against non-members at Auburn or by Auburn, I don't think it's a legal issue. That's just applying principles though as I think they should be applied; I'm sure there is caselaw that is pretty close to being exactly on point.
 

Perd Hapley

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If Chad and Tonya Prewett are not doing it as part of their work duties, and the process they use is open to any group on campus, I'm still fine with it.
Same as if it were Chad and Danny Prewett and instead it was an organization pushing LGBTQ issues.

If the the group starts claiming infidels shouldn't be allowed to take classes or work at Auburn or that anybody with traditional views on sexuality shouldn't be welcome as a student or employee at Auburn, I think participating is a different. But as long as they are not advocating for discriminatory treatment against non-members at Auburn or by Auburn, I don't think it's a legal issue. That's just applying principles though as I think they should be applied; I'm sure there is caselaw that is pretty close to being exactly on point.
LGBTQ support groups are not religious affiliations, not sure why you are comparing that to an organized religious service or ritual being conducted, potentially, either under the direction or using the resources of a state funded entity or employees of said entity. Not saying there’s a definite separation of church and state violation here, but you can’t compare it to LGBTQ rights groups, or the NRA, or any other secular organization.
 

DerHntr

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LGBTQ support groups are not religious affiliations, not sure why you are comparing that to an organized religious service or ritual being conducted, potentially, either under the direction or using the resources of a state funded entity or employees of said entity. Not saying there’s a definite separation of church and state violation here, but you can’t compare it to LGBTQ rights groups, or the NRA, or any other secular organization.
Thank you for saying that better than I did with my comparing apples to apples comment.
 

patdog

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The only reason that narrative has stuck is buying hookers for you is a misdemeanor that gets you fired. Buying hookers for recruits who are under 18 gets you federal prison time.
Why does everyone think it’s one or the other. I think he was buying hookers for him AND for recruits. The one he got busted for in FL was probably for him. Hookers for recruits came down to Oxford from Memphis for recruiting weekends. What’s he going to do on a home visit? Send the hooker to the kids parents house?
 

johnson86-1

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LGBTQ support groups are not religious affiliations, not sure why you are comparing that to an organized religious service or ritual being conducted, potentially, either under the direction or using the resources of a state funded entity or employees of said entity. Not saying there’s a definite separation of church and state violation here, but you can’t compare it to LGBTQ rights groups, or the NRA, or any other secular organization.

Because the constitution does not allow the state to target religious people/entities for worse treatment simply because they are not secular.

The only reason to have a concern about state employees making their religious beliefs known is a concern that it somehow would put pressure on their reports (or students/players in this situation) to either parrot those beliefs or feel like they can't express their actual beliefs.

DerHunter was claiming that my position would be different if I disagreed with the viewpoint of the speaker, and I was pointing out that it would not be, even when there is a much higher likelihood that the beliefs would result in discriminatory conduct (going to be a pretty rare occasion that a coach would openly express a disdain for non-christians players but obviously lots of people in a university setting feel like it's acceptable to discriminate against people with traditional views on sexuality).
 

johnson86-1

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Thank you for saying that better than I did with my comparing apples to apples comment.
The fact that you think being non-religious entitles them to more protections shows why my scenario was spot on as far as identifying a situation where viewpoint discrimination by state employees is more likely.
 

Pilgrimdawg

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Why does everyone think it’s one or the other. I think he was buying hookers for him AND for recruits. The one he got busted for in FL was probably for him. Hookers for recruits came down to Oxford from Memphis for recruiting weekends. What’s he going to do on a home visit? Send the hooker to the kids parents house?
As I recall he was in Tampa recruiting a center, and it was the centers birthday. Easy to connect the dots from there. And I agree the correct answer is most likely both.
 

AFDawg

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For the sake of the baptized, it's a good thing the Donatist controversy was resolved on the side of the Catholics.
 

DerHntr

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The fact that you think being non-religious entitles them to more protections shows why my scenario was spot on as far as identifying a situation where viewpoint discrimination by state employees is more likely.
Where did I state that it entitles anyone to anything? I said compare apples to apples, religion to religion. You think it’s OK for a religious group that you likely identify with to convert people. The governor of Alabama agrees with you. I would bet that a ton of people in Alabama agree as well. I said that the group who is possibly filing a lawsuit sees this as an overreach by state employees. I gave an example of it being a different religion and then asked you a question that you never answered.

ETA: We probably aren’t too far off in what we think on this topic. It seems like you think it’s OK for state employees to participate in any of the opportunities on campus as long as they don’t push it on anyone else or hold it against students who don’t join them. I think they shouldn’t participate in nearly any of it and they shouldn’t hold it against anyone who does. And I think that Christian groups are the major exception where large numbers of people look the other way because it’s the majority religion of the country. Maybe that’s not your take and you don’t care what religion Freeze converts people to, but many others would be out with pitchforks.
 
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Chesusdog

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Gross. These public displays are never about Christ; they are about promoting the Freeze brand.
 
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Mobile Bay

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Why does everyone think it’s one or the other. I think he was buying hookers for him AND for recruits. The one he got busted for in FL was probably for him. Hookers for recruits came down to Oxford from Memphis for recruiting weekends. What’s he going to do on a home visit? Send the hooker to the kids parents house?
He can tell a recruit to go to a certain hotel room where that recruit will find a very nice lady and a backpack full of cash.
 

The Cooterpoot

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A sprinkle is all you need. It's a symbolic event. The real transformation happens when you internally accept the grace of God which is sufficient for all men.
over your head GIF by ABC Network
 
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Johnnie Come Lately

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Freeze is full of ****, and anything he is involved with always seems sketchy, but I think its a pretty big stretch to call this a "University-sponsored religions event" or remotely unconstitutional. They need to do the good Christian thing and tell the FFRF to shove it up their ***...
 
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WilCoDawg

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LGBTQ support groups are not religious affiliations, not sure why you are comparing that to an organized religious service or ritual being conducted, potentially, either under the direction or using the resources of a state funded entity or employees of said entity. Not saying there’s a definite separation of church and state violation here, but you can’t compare it to LGBTQ rights groups, or the NRA, or any other secular organization.
But it is basically a religion. “You’re either for us or against us.”
 

maroonmadman

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The Bible warns us about folks who constantly have to put on public displays of faith.
Matthew 6 :1 - 34

“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. ...

Folks who constantly have to tell everyone how good a Christian they are generally aren't. JMHO
 
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