Inside the infamous GOR

[18IsTheMan]

Pretty interesting read. Some notable excerpts:

"There was no other choice. Two industry experts with experience valuing media rights told CBS Sports that -- for all the complaining by those seven schools -- it is doubtful they would bring pro rata (equal value) if they were to depart the ACC for the SEC.

Those ACC schools seemingly had nowhere to go and lacked the financial will to challenge the grant of rights in court given its ironclad nature. Start with that Delaware incorporation."
____________________________________
''Challenging the contract in court would expose a school to unknown and uncertain liabilities, both legal and financial. It would not know how much it would have to pay to get out, whereas exit fees are largely negotiable. Example: Maryland paid a $50 million exit fee to leave the ACC for the Big Ten in 2014.

In that shocking July 2021 development, Texas and Oklahoma announced they were leaving the Big 12 for the SEC after the existing grant of rights expired in 2025. The Big 12 quickly rallied to assemble an unequal revenue sharing plan for the two schools. Unlike what the ACC accomplished Wednesday, that strategy did not work for the Big 12.

Then it just came down to that negotiation. Earlier this year, the Big 12 announced a deal for the Longhorns and Sooners to leave one year early in 2024, netting the league $100 million.

Neither school dared challenge the grant of rights itself.'
____________________________________
"Well, all I can say is that same grant of rights has been in other conferences, and no one has really challenged it," Miami athletic director Dan Radakovich told the Miami Herald this week. "So, not being a lawyer, I don't know the tenets of it. But just being a lay person, it must be pretty good if no one has tried to challenge it."

___________________________________
The whole Delaware incorporation thing is fascinating as well. It's not clear to me from the article if the ACC is incorporated in Delaware like the Big 12, but if so, it's brilliant. And it is quite telling that Texas and OU were willing to pay a combined $100 million to leave just one year early instead of mounting any legal challenge to the GOR.

Inside the Big 12's 'ironclad' grant of rights contract that helped keep the ACC together amid turbulence

How a seemingly unbreakable document has kept two leagues largely together during realignment

www.cbssports.com

 

[Tngamecock]

Well….sell your soul to the devil and you may regret it. Any school signing on for that long deserves what they get (or don’t get)

 

[vacock]

I thought that the schools could change it anytime they want.

 

[gamecock stock]

Seems to me that SEC expansion is way, way into the future if the obvious additions are in the ACC. And no ACC school has oil and natural gas money to fund its early exit like Texas and Oklahoma has. Consequently, I believe any talk of bringing ACC schools into the SEC, whether due to brand or geography, is VERY premature.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Seems to me that SEC expansion is way, way into the future if the obvious additions are in the ACC. And no ACC school has oil and natural gas money to fund its early exit like Texas and Oklahoma has. Consequently, I believe any talk of bringing ACC schools into the SEC, whether due to brand or geography, is VERY premature.

And on of the interesting things from the article is the note that ACC teams won't carry nearly the value to the SEC as they do to the ACC. The article suggests that the ACC teams looking to break free couldn't find landing spots, even if they somehow found a way to break the GOR. Doesn't seem the SEC is very motivated to make it happen, which goes to your point.

I think if/when the ACC does eventually break up, the SEC would scoop up some of the teams, but it doesn't appear they are nearly as eager as they were to get Texas and OU.

 

[Prestonyte]

Pretty interesting read. Some notable excerpts:

"There was no other choice. Two industry experts with experience valuing media rights told CBS Sports that -- for all the complaining by those seven schools -- it is doubtful they would bring pro rata (equal value) if they were to depart the ACC for the SEC.

Those ACC schools seemingly had nowhere to go and lacked the financial will to challenge the grant of rights in court given its ironclad nature. Start with that Delaware incorporation."
____________________________________
''Challenging the contract in court would expose a school to unknown and uncertain liabilities, both legal and financial. It would not know how much it would have to pay to get out, whereas exit fees are largely negotiable. Example: Maryland paid a $50 million exit fee to leave the ACC for the Big Ten in 2014.

In that shocking July 2021 development, Texas and Oklahoma announced they were leaving the Big 12 for the SEC after the existing grant of rights expired in 2025. The Big 12 quickly rallied to assemble an unequal revenue sharing plan for the two schools. Unlike what the ACC accomplished Wednesday, that strategy did not work for the Big 12.

Then it just came down to that negotiation. Earlier this year, the Big 12 announced a deal for the Longhorns and Sooners to leave one year early in 2024, netting the league $100 million.

Neither school dared challenge the grant of rights itself.'
____________________________________
"Well, all I can say is that same grant of rights has been in other conferences, and no one has really challenged it," Miami athletic director Dan Radakovich told the Miami Herald this week. "So, not being a lawyer, I don't know the tenets of it. But just being a lay person, it must be pretty good if no one has tried to challenge it."

___________________________________
The whole Delaware incorporation thing is fascinating as well. It's not clear to me from the article if the ACC is incorporated in Delaware like the Big 12, but if so, it's brilliant. And it is quite telling that Texas and OU were willing to pay a combined $100 million to leave just one year early instead of mounting any legal challenge to the GOR.

Inside the Big 12's 'ironclad' grant of rights contract that helped keep the ACC together amid turbulence

How a seemingly unbreakable document has kept two leagues largely together during realignment

www.cbssports.com

Thanks for posting!

 

[Big JC]

Outside of Clemson and FSU, the ACC doesn't have much in the way of football as a major sport draw. Miami has been shown to be a middling program if they can't cheat and UNC is a basketball school. No other ACC school has much draw in the world of football.

Clemson would seem to be an attractive addition to the SEC but what would they really bring to the table? They don't have a huge fan base and they are not really in any sort of major media market (that is true for USC as well if we are honest). Clemson is a recent addition to the list of programs with some real success nationally and it appears they may be reverting to the mean where they are one of the two tallest pygmies in the ACC jungle. FSU is more of an attractive target since they have a larger fan base and are in the Florida market but they need to get their program back to having some semblance of relevance before any conference would really have interest in them. Miami could bring the South Florida market so they would possibly have some appeal but they need to be more than a team with a winning record. UNC doesn't even fill up their own stadium for football, how much interest is there really in UNC football?

 

[Rogue Cock]

Outside of Clemson and FSU, the ACC doesn't have much in the way of football as a major sport draw. Miami has been shown to be a middling program if they can't cheat and UNC is a basketball school. No other ACC school has much draw in the world of football.

Clemson would seem to be an attractive addition to the SEC but what would they really bring to the table? They don't have a huge fan base and they are not really in any sort of major media market (that is true for USC as well if we are honest). Clemson is a recent addition to the list of programs with some real success nationally and it appears they may be reverting to the mean where they are one of the two tallest pygmies in the ACC jungle. FSU is more of an attractive target since they have a larger fan base and are in the Florida market but they need to get their program back to having some semblance of relevance before any conference would really have interest in them. Miami could bring the South Florida market so they would possibly have some appeal but they need to be more than a team with a winning record. UNC doesn't even fill up their own stadium for football, how much interest is there really in UNC football?

But Miami, FSU and UNC are massive brands that have huge apparel sales. They will bring attention and eyes.

 

[18IsTheMan]

But Miami, FSU and UNC are massive brands that have huge apparel sales. They will bring attention and eyes.

I suppose the question is "where do they rank as football brands compared to what the SEC already has?"

As the article linked above notes, their value to the ACC will likely not carry over to the SEC. The SEC was aggressive in going out to get Texas and Oklahoma. They just don't seem overly motivated for any of the ACC teams.

Where would the top ACC football brand rank in comparison to Alabama, Georgia, Texas, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Florida, etc?

 

[Rogue Cock]

I do

I suppose the question is "where do they rank as football brands compared to what the SEC already has?"

As the article linked above notes, their value to the ACC will likely not carry over to the SEC. The SEC was aggressive in going out to get Texas and Oklahoma. They just don't seem overly motivated for any of the ACC teams.

Where would the top ACC football brand rank in comparison to Alabama, Georgia, Texas, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Florida, etc?

I don’t disagree with that article as of today, but it seems to make an assumption that the current football stature of those schools remain. It wasn’t that long ago that Miami and FSU were dominant in college football and with the talent in Florida, the football fortunes of those schools could change quickly….and they already bring a national brand.

 

[Big JC]

I do

I don’t disagree with that article as of today, but it seems to make an assumption that the current football stature of those schools remain. It wasn’t that long ago that Miami and FSU were dominant in college football and with the talent in Florida, the football fortunes of those schools could change quickly….and they already bring a national brand.

It has been much longer than you realize with Miami and FSU hasn't been relevant, even in the ACC, for at least 5 years.

The "public" will jump on a big winner pretty quickly but the team has to be a BIG winner. Outside of Clemson, the ACC doesn't have a team who has won anything of national interest in the past 10 years or so. The SEC has Bama, Georgia and LSU who have won 6 of the 9 CFP championships. Clemson is the only team the SEC would have any interest in when it comes to relevance and they don't bring anything else to the table.

 

[Rogue Cock]

It has been much longer than you realize with Miami and FSU hasn't been relevant, even in the ACC, for at least 5 years.

The "public" will jump on a big winner pretty quickly but the team has to be a BIG winner. Outside of Clemson, the ACC doesn't have a team who has won anything of national interest in the past 10 years or so. The SEC has Bama, Georgia and LSU who have won 6 of the 9 CFP championships. Clemson is the only team the SEC would have any interest in when it comes to relevance and they don't bring anything else to the table.

That’s looking solely at one aspect of the decision making process and if the SEC is that myopic they will end up losing in the expansion race. Do you really believe the SEC wants the Big 12 and the B1G with a foothold in Florida, NC and VA? They are 3 of the fastest growing states in the country. If the SEC cedes those states to the Big 12 and the B1G, they will end up regretting it. JMHO.

 

[DrMickeySC]

I do have one concern as a Carolina fan. If the top tier teams in the SEC decide to push for unequal revenue in the next negotiation, I think we could be in trouble. I realize that no one has suggested that is a possibility, but hey, nobody expected two Los Angeles schools to jump to the Big 10 either.

 

[KingWard]

Seems to me that SEC expansion is way, way into the future if the obvious additions are in the ACC. And no ACC school has oil and natural gas money to fund its early exit like Texas and Oklahoma has. Consequently, I believe any talk of bringing ACC schools into the SEC, whether due to brand or geography, is VERY premature.

Tell you the truth, I don't think the SEC is all that worried about the Big 10 expanding further. As long as they can get and keep the money per team disbursement at the top, which it will be in the not too distant future, the SEC might sit on 16.

 

[Mauze1]

But Miami, FSU and UNC are massive brands that have huge apparel sales. They will bring attention and eyes.

They will also take an equal share. That share might be greater than what they bring. NC makes more sense than Clemson, but I find it hard to believe the ACC schools will bolt. I think they will work it out. I also find it hard to believe that two or three major conferences with 20 or more members will keep attracting the fan bases. When and if that happens the college football landscape is going to resemble NFL Jr. Competing with the NFL does not seem to be a good thing to me. Tradition has always set the college game apart. Now tradition is being replaced by dollars.

 

[Rogue Cock]

Tell you the truth, I don't think the SEC is all that worried about the Big 10 expanding further. As long as they can get and keep the money per team disbursement at the top, which it will be in the not too distant future, the SEC might sit on 16.

What is the disbursement supposed to be? I read in the Sporting News that the B1G media deal will be $100M per team beginning 2025.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Tell you the truth, I don't think the SEC is all that worried about the Big 10 expanding further. As long as they can get and keep the money per team disbursement at the top, which it will be in the not too distant future, the SEC might sit on 16.

It's a valid point and one that I'm sure the SEC is considering as it relates to added value. They have to be surveying the landscape and asking "which teams can be added that would increase the per team payout?" I think the answer to that question is "not many." You can add more teams to increase overall revenue, but then you're dividing the pie that many more times.

 

[Deleted11512]

I do have one concern as a Carolina fan. If the top tier teams in the SEC decide to push for unequal revenue in the next negotiation, I think we could be in trouble. I realize that no one has suggested that is a possibility, but hey, nobody expected two Los Angeles schools to jump to the Big 10 either.

It seems like that model has been reserved for conferences that know the end is near, just trying desperately to hold on to whatever they have. It's not a viable long term play. The SEC is going to have 8 programs that have won NCs in the last 25 years. The only reason school push for that is b/c half the conference doesn't care about football and doesn't invest in it. Not the case in the SEC, and will never be.

 

[Anon1658788697]

Clemson would seem to be an attractive addition to the SEC but what would they really bring to the table? They don't have a huge fan base and they are not really in any sort of major media market (that is true for USC as well if we are honest). Clemson is a recent addition to the list of programs with some real success nationally and it appears they may be reverting to the mean where they are one of the two tallest pygmies in the ACC jungle. FSU is more of an attractive target since they have a larger fan base and are in the Florida market but they need to get their program back to having some semblance of relevance before any conference would really have interest in them. Miami could bring the South Florida market so they would possibly have some appeal but they need to be more than a team with a winning record. UNC doesn't even fill up their own stadium for football, how much interest is there really in UNC football?

While your first couple sentences are not necessarily false. Clemson is consistently in some of the most watch game of the year. People watch them. You don’t have to have a fan base to watch. I don’t like Alabama but I watch most of their games. This is about matchups not markets.

 

[KingWard]

It's a valid point and one that I'm sure the SEC is considering as it relates to added value. They have to be surveying the landscape and asking "which teams can be added that would increase the per team payout?" I think the answer to that question is "not many." You can add more teams to increase overall revenue, but then you're dividing the pie that many more times.

That's the whole thing: payouts per school. Nothing else matters.

 

[KingWard]

What is the disbursement supposed to be? I read in the Sporting News that the B1G media deal will be $100M per team beginning 2025.

Check the matrix in this piece. The B1G is currently ahead, but the SEC is slated to overhaul them around '26-'27. That's is the universal projection across the netscape. https://footballscoop.com/news/data-firm-projects-sec-100-million-revenue-end-of-decade

 

[Deleted11512]

While your first couple sentences are not necessarily false. Clemson is consistently in some of the most watch game of the year. People watch them. You don’t have to have a fan base to watch. I don’t like Alabama but I watch most of their games. This is about matchups not markets.

TV ratings are tricky. Clem is consistently getting the top slots in the ACC. The more exposure you get, the more you eyes you are going to get. They're not getting that treatment in the SEC. I'm not saying people don't watch them, I'm just saying some of that is just the ACC showcasing them b/c they have nothing else.

 

[18IsTheMan]

That's the whole thing: payouts per school. Nothing else matters.

I don't know who could be added from the ACC that would make a significant difference in the per team payout.

Notre Dame is the one big fish that's out there who could actually do that, but with the 12-team playoff coming, they may not see the need to join a conference any longer.

 

[Rogue Cock]

Check the matrix in this piece. The B1G is currently ahead, but he SEC is slated to overhaul them around '26-'27. That's is the universal projection across the netscape. https://footballscoop.com/news/data-firm-projects-sec-100-million-revenue-end-of-decade

The numbers for the B1G are not accurate. They will be at $100M per team by 2025 and that’s with addition of the two Cali schools.

 

[Anon1658788697]

TV ratings are tricky. Clem is consistently getting the top slots in the ACC. The more exposure you get, the more you eyes you are going to get. They're not getting that treatment in the SEC. I'm not saying people don't watch them, I'm just saying some of that is just the ACC showcasing them b/c they have nothing else.

I call ******** on this. You can chose to put them down all you want but the truth is their brand is still hot and that is what this is all about.

 

[Tngamecock]

Outside of Clemson and FSU, the ACC doesn't have much in the way of football as a major sport draw. Miami has been shown to be a middling program if they can't cheat and UNC is a basketball school. No other ACC school has much draw in the world of football.

Clemson would seem to be an attractive addition to the SEC but what would they really bring to the table? They don't have a huge fan base and they are not really in any sort of major media market (that is true for USC as well if we are honest). Clemson is a recent addition to the list of programs with some real success nationally and it appears they may be reverting to the mean where they are one of the two tallest pygmies in the ACC jungle. FSU is more of an attractive target since they have a larger fan base and are in the Florida market but they need to get their program back to having some semblance of relevance before any conference would really have interest in them. Miami could bring the South Florida market so they would possibly have some appeal but they need to be more than a team with a winning record. UNC doesn't even fill up their own stadium for football, how much interest is there really in UNC football?

Based on Miami’s attendance over the years…appears they can’t bring much of anything

 

[Lurker123]

TV ratings are tricky. Clem is consistently getting the top slots in the ACC. The more exposure you get, the more you eyes you are going to get. They're not getting that treatment in the SEC. I'm not saying people don't watch them, I'm just saying some of that is just the ACC showcasing them b/c they have nothing else.

Not sure about this. Those ratings are for games that are shown at the same time as games from other conferences. They may be the top bill on the acc network, but they still go up against other games in their times lots.

 

[Deleted11512]

Not sure about this. Those ratings are for games that are shown at the same time as games from other conferences. They may be the top bill on the acc network, but they still go up against other games in their times lots.

I get that. But i'm just saying at the prime ACC spot they're getting those ACC viewers. I watch the 3:30 CBS game not just b/c it's usually a big time national game, but also b/c it's the premier SEC game and it's relevant to me as a SEC fan.

 

[KingWard]

The numbers for the B1G are not accurate. They will be at $100M per team by 2025 and that’s with addition of the two Cali schools.

There's probably a better and later matrix, then. If you find it before I do, I wish you would post it.

 

[gamecock stock]

16 is a good even number. Unless adding teams will significantly increase the per school payout, expansion won't happen. As long as the SEC and Big 10 are very close in payout, there's no incentive for the SEC to expand. And $100 million goes further in the South than in the Midwest and California due to the lower cost-of-living in the South.

Brands come and go. FSU is not the brand they were under Bobby Bowden. And Clemson is not that far removed from the Tommy Bowden era.

I can envision down the road the SEC splitting into 2 divisions. 16 teams make such a division more workable than 18.

And there is one VERY important factor that people don't take into account: Florida does not want Florida State in the SEC. They may say differently in public but, privately is another matter. If FSU is not coming in, neither is Clemson. Florida, as a charter member of the SEC, has a lot of pull in the conference.

Consequently, the bottom line is I would not count on expansion.

 

[KingWard]

16 is a good even number. Unless adding teams will significantly increase the per school payout, expansion won't happen. As long as the SEC and Big 10 are very close in payout, there's no incentive for the SEC to expand. And $100 million goes further in the South than in the Midwest and California due to the lower cost-of-living in the South.

Brands come and go. FSU is not the brand they were under Bobby Bowden. And Clemson is not that far removed from the Tommy Bowden era.

I can envision down the road the SEC splitting into 2 divisions. 16 teams make such a division more workable than 18.

And there is one VERY important factor that people don't take into account: Florida does not want Florida State in the SEC. They may say differently in public but, privately is another matter. If FSU is not coming in, neither is Clemson. Florida, as a charter member of the SEC, has a lot of pull in the conference.

Consequently, the bottom line is I would not count on expansion.

I like the idea of no further expansion. But here's the thing, if the bus pulls off, you can't be left standing on the curb if there's more per-school money to be had; you just can't.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

There's probably a better and later matrix, then. If you find it before I do, I wish you would post it.

Now both of you will be waiting for each other lol

 

[KingWard]

Now both of you will be waiting for each other lol

I've been searching.

 

[gamecock stock]

I like the idea of no further expansion. But here's the thing, if the bus pulls off, you can't be left standing on the curb if there's more per-school money to be had; you just can't.

I totally agree with that. Absolutely agree.

How much more money per school do you think it would take to turn SEC heads towards expanding to 18? I think $10 million per school more. Thus counting what the SEC Office in Birmingham would get, ESPN would have to add $200 million to the existing contract at that time.

 

[KingWard]

I totally agree with that. Absolutely agree.

How much more money per school do you think it would take to turn SEC heads towards expanding to 18? I think $10 million per school more. Thus counting what the SEC Office in Birmingham would get, ESPN would have to add $200 million to the existing contract at that time.

I think they'd do it for less than $10 million a school. If it were $5 million, that adds up over time.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

I like the idea of no further expansion. But here's the thing, if the bus pulls off, you can't be left standing on the curb if there's more per-school money to be had; you just can't.

Exactly.
So far the majority of posts I've seen on these threads are looking at expansion as an offensive strategy only, and have not considered a defensive strategy.
As an example, if the SEC were to extend invites to FSU and Miami, this would block out the B1G from the state of Florida, in essence denying the B1G an opportunity to stake a claim within their home turf.
(This is just an example, not to be construed as a proposal on my part)
Golden rule in business is do not willing concede a formidable competitor to grab a foothold on your territory

 

[KingWard]

Exactly.
So far the majority of posts I've seen on these threads are looking at expansion on an offensive strategy only, and have not considered a defensive strategy.
As an example, if the SEC were to extend invites to FSU and Miami, this would block out the B1G from the state of Florida, in essence denying the B1G an opportunity to stake a claim within their home turf.
(This is just an example, not to be construed as a proposal on my part)
Golden rule in business is do not willing concede a formidable competitor to grab a foothold on your territory

Right. And whom would the SEC want from B1G territory that isn't Notre Dame - someone attainable, I mean? If the B1G encroaches down here, the SEC has almost no opportunity to reciprocate. If there were a way to prevent that, the league would want to pursue it.

 

[atl-cock]

16 is a good even number. Unless adding teams will significantly increase the per school payout, expansion won't happen. As long as the SEC and Big 10 are very close in payout, there's no incentive for the SEC to expand. And $100 million goes further in the South than in the Midwest and California due to the lower cost-of-living in the South.

Brands come and go. FSU is not the brand they were under Bobby Bowden. And Clemson is not that far removed from the Tommy Bowden era.

I can envision down the road the SEC splitting into 2 divisions. 16 teams make such a division more workable than 18.

And there is one VERY important factor that people don't take into account: Florida does not want Florida State in the SEC. They may say differently in public but, privately is another matter. If FSU is not coming in, neither is Clemson. Florida, as a charter member of the SEC, has a lot of pull in the conference.

Consequently, the bottom line is I would not count on expansion.

8 is a good even number. You play all conference members in all sports each season, with enough room on the schedule for quality OOC matchups.

 

[KingWard]

8 is a good even number. You play all conference members in all sports each season, with enough room on the schedule for quality OOC matchups.

That's how it was for us ante-1971. Those days are "Gone With the Wind".

 

[atl-cock]

That's how it was for us ante-1971. Those days are "Gone With the Wind".

Yeah, I know. Sadly. The Ivy League is about all that's left in D1.