Is Wimbledon being fair by banning Russian athletes?

[Irondawg]

Tricky situation

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_...ian-belarusian-players-interests-tennis-alone

For these individual sports like tennis and golf I do find it odd that the play under a country's flag yet aren't really playing for that country. They are playing for themselves and just happen to be from the country. Outside the Olympics or Davis Cup, I don't even know why we even need to put a flag next to their name as it serves on real purpose.

I don't know what the right decision here is for tournaments like Wimbledon. I'd proper argue that so long as a player isn't promoting their country's actions or being used in any way to promote it, then they should be allowed to play.

Thoughts?

 

[Cooterpoot]

Is Biden being fair by banning Russian oil/gas and products? The best player in the world was banned last year for Covid vaccine. Was that fair? How about the New York banning an NBA player over the vaccine?

 

[patdog]

Not fair at all. Those players have nothing to do with the war in Ukraine. They're punishing innocent people. It's the same kind of logic that we used when we incarcerated Japanese-Americans during WWII.

 

[GloryDawg]

Semyon Varlamov is Russian and the Goaltender for the Avalanche. I did noticed when the our National Athame was being played he was dancing around. Maybe all goaltenders do it to stay lose. I don't know. Is there any Ukrainians in the NHL?

 

[dorndawg]

Not fair at all. Those players have nothing to do with the war in Ukraine. They're punishing innocent people. It's the same kind of logic that we used when we incarcerated Japanese-Americans during WWII.

I'm having a bit of trouble understanding how forcing citizens into concentration camps and not inviting someone to a tennis tournament are the same. Something kinda possibly being unfair doesn't rise to the level of literal crimes against humanity.

 

[patdog]

It's to a much different degree for sure. But the logic behind both is, "they're Japanese (Russians) so they're guilty and must be punished." You punish the state and you punish war criminals. But you don't punish every citizen.

 

[Irondawg]

Agree that it’s similar to the Covid vax bans which I tend to not agree with but it’s still a bit different because that’s at least at an individual decision level. Novak had the ability to get a shot.

He can’t change where he was born and raised.

The NHL not banning Russian players is a good parallel here

 

[mstateglfr]

Is Biden being fair by banning Russian oil/gas and products? The best player in the world was banned last year for Covid vaccine. Was that fair? How about the New York banning an NBA player over the vaccine?

New York didnt ban an NBA player over the vaccine. New York announced, with plenty of notice, that vaccination would be needed for people who perform work in person or interact with the public. Kyrie happened to not want to comply with that mandate. New York didnt target Kyrie. Kyrie made a choice.

As for Biden banning Russian oil/gas and products, that is part of a global attempt to cut off funding for Russia's invasion. Financially penalizing a country is common. I dont see that in any way similar to Wimbledon banning Russian athletes.

 

[mstateglfr]

For these individual sports like tennis and golf I do find it odd that the play under a country's flag yet aren't really playing for that country. They are playing for themselves and just happen to be from the country. Outside the Olympics or Davis Cup, I don't even know why we even need to put a flag next to their name as it serves on real purpose.

I don't know what the right decision here is for tournaments like Wimbledon. I'd proper argue that so long as a player isn't promoting their country's actions or being used in any way to promote it, then they should be allowed to play.

Thoughts?

I think that just because someone is from a country that is committing atrocities right now, that doesnt mean the person should be banned from working/competing.
If the individual(s) in question are financially supporting the atrocities or are publicly supporting the atrocities, then banning them could be seen as reasonable since you dont want your tournament to be a stage for the athlete to voice their support.

But nobody should be banned just because they were raised or are a citizen of a country that is currently unpopular on the world stage.
Newsflash- Russia is no worse now than 6 months ago or 6 years ago. The government was corrupt, dangerous, and volatile before the invasion and **** like this was inevitable when you have a crazy nationalistic dictator leading the country for over 2 decades now with no end in sight.

I cant imagine World #1 2006 Maria Sharapova being denied just because she is a Russian citizen.

 

[Dawg1976]

Absolutely

 

[57stratdawg]

It’s pressure on Putin. Might not be much pressure, but it’s some. The Olympics, FIFA, etc. are big events to those people. They should feel that isolation their leader’s actions caused.

Also, be prepared for this to end with people taking shots over the decision(s). It’s much harder to get out of virtue signaling than start it. It seems virtually guaranteed Russia ends up with Ukrainian territory. Russian Athletes will be back within a couple years - maybe sooner. No one is really fighting for Tibet anymore.

 

[thatsbaseball]

This is the correct answer.

 

[paindonthurt]

Freedom isn’t free.

 

[thekimmer]

It all depends.....

Tricky situation

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_...ian-belarusian-players-interests-tennis-alone

For these individual sports like tennis and golf I do find it odd that the play under a country's flag yet aren't really playing for that country. They are playing for themselves and just happen to be from the country. Outside the Olympics or Davis Cup, I don't even know why we even need to put a flag next to their name as it serves on real purpose.

I don't know what the right decision here is for tournaments like Wimbledon. I'd proper argue that so long as a player isn't promoting their country's actions or being used in any way to promote it, then they should be allowed to play.

Thoughts?

Well, all I can say is that there are places in the world where I cannot work solely because I am a US citizen no matter what I personally believe about the governmental policies of my country. Stands to reason that the same standard can be applied here. Is it fair that the sanctions imposed on Russia hurt the general populace who have nothing to do with the government? Perhaps it is if it serves to apply pressure on the government to change its ways and that goes for banning citizens of that country from participating in polite society.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

That analogy doesn't work because Japanese-Americans were interned, even people whose families had been Americans for decades. Wimbledon is banning people who are actually from and representing Russia, not just anyone who happens to be of Russian descent.

 

[mstateglfr]

That analogy doesn't work because Japanese-Americans were interned, even people whose families had been Americans for decades. Wimbledon is banning people who are actually from and representing Russia, not just anyone who happens to be of Russian descent.

Are the 4 banned played representing Russia though? 3 are Russian and 1 is Belarusian. Of the 4, 1 lives in the US, 1 lives in UAE, 1 lives in Monaco, and 1 still lives in their home country. Wimbledon isnt played for the countries, its played for the individuals to win.

 

[coachnorm]

Are the 4 banned played representing Russia though? 3 are Russian and 1 is Belarusian. Of the 4, 1 lives in the US, 1 lives in UAE, 1 lives in Monaco, and 1 still lives in their home country. Wimbledon isnt played for the countries, its played for the individuals to win.

Are they affiliated or related to Oligarchs? Remember the Oligarchs moved their money out of their own country?

 

[johnson86-1]

New York didnt ban an NBA player over the vaccine. New York announced, with plenty of notice, that vaccination would be needed for people who perform work in person or interact with the public. Kyrie happened to not want to comply with that mandate. New York didnt target Kyrie. Kyrie made a choice.

As for Biden banning Russian oil/gas and products, that is part of a global attempt to cut off funding for Russia's invasion. Financially penalizing a country is common. I dont see that in any way similar to Wimbledon banning Russian athletes.

For the countries punishing individual russian citizens, I think they probably shouldn't try to punish individuals that aren't really in position to change policy, but we're at least aiming the punishment in the general direction of an enemy. Lots of innocent people get hurt by war, so there is some logic for making sure innocents from Russia also feel some sting (and non-physical sting at that). On the flip side I guess would be that we are punishing a lot of poor russian citizens with sanctions to put pressure on Putin, and it would be morally perverse to exempt rich entertainers.

New York's was in some way worse. They did something stupid to their own residents just out of pettiness. They didn't like people not being willing to follow orders so they tried to make it painful well past the point that there was any public policy justification. But it's really just apples and oranges.

 

[DAWG61]

Countries are going to do whatever they can to "help" Ukraine or appear to be helping Ukraine short of actually sending troops to fight. Idk why we wouldn't ban Russian oil but that's an odd comparison.

 

[natchezdawg]

It is hard for me to imagine Russians being banned from Wimbledon registering

as so much as a blip on Putin's radar. Aside from his inner circle of cronies and support from most of the world's dictators, he is about as isolated as a person can get. He probably has multiple people tasting his food instead of just one, at this point.

 

[dog12]

Well, all I can say is that there are places in the world where I cannot work solely because I am a US citizen no matter what I personally believe about the governmental policies of my country. Stands to reason that the same standard can be applied here. Is it fair that the sanctions imposed on Russia hurt the general populace who have nothing to do with the government? Perhaps it is if it serves to apply pressure on the government to change its ways and that goes for banning citizens of that country from participating in polite society.

I assume we can all agree that Russia invading Ukraine and being at war with Ukraine is wrong/bad.

Thus, wouldn't every Russian citizen shoulder at least a small part of the blame for what Russia is doing?

If not, then who in Russia is subject to penalty for what Russia is doing in Ukraine? Where do we draw the line? Which Russians are blameworthy and which are not?

(I have no problem with Wimbledon banning Russian players.)

 

[aTotal360]

This is similar to NCAAF sanctions. Is having a new coach and new players shoulder the brunt of some ******** a former coach did fair? All the offenders are gone.

 

[mstateglfr]

Are they affiliated or related to Oligarchs? Remember the Oligarchs moved their money out of their own country?

I have not read anything that even suggests any are affiliated with oligarchs. One is Belarusian, to be clear...so even less likely to be affiliated with a Russian oligarch.
If there is evidence that any of the 4 are somehow financially backed by oligarchs, Wimbledon did not mention it in the comments. Wimbledon says they were basically forced to do this by the UK gvt.

 

[mstateglfr]

I assume we can all agree that Russia invading Ukraine and being at war with Ukraine is wrong/bad.

Thus, wouldn't every Russian citizen shoulder at least a small part of the blame for what Russia is doing?

If not, then who in Russia is subject to penalty for what Russia is doing in Ukraine? Where do we draw the line? Which Russians are blameworthy and which are not?

No, every Russian citizen does not shoulder part of the blame for what Russia is doing. Thats absurd. People unable to change a system larger than them are not to blame when that which they try to change does something bad.
As for who to blame- those in power and those who actively support maintaining that power are the ones to blame.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

^^^doesn't understand the seriousness of tennis***

 

[mstateglfr]

This is similar to NCAAF sanctions. Is having a new coach and new players shoulder the brunt of some ******** a former coach did fair? All the offenders are gone.

Once Putin is gone, then your comparison will be good.

 

[aTotal360]

Probably went over your head, but these tennis players are likely innocent bystanders.

 

[Dog316]

Yes

 

[dorndawg]

^^^doesn't understand the seriousness of tennis***

 

[thatsbaseball]

Dictators always have huge egos and through history have used the success of their athletes and athletic teams for propaganda for their regimes. If you read a little about Putin he is really "into" Russian athletics and may have literally been "into" a few female gymnast along the way.

 

[GhostOfJackie]

Tricky situation

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_...ian-belarusian-players-interests-tennis-alone

For these individual sports like tennis and golf I do find it odd that the play under a country's flag yet aren't really playing for that country. They are playing for themselves and just happen to be from the country. Outside the Olympics or Davis Cup, I don't even know why we even need to put a flag next to their name as it serves on real purpose.

I don't know what the right decision here is for tournaments like Wimbledon. I'd proper argue that so long as a player isn't promoting their country's actions or being used in any way to promote it, then they should be allowed to play.

Thoughts?

I think the correct decision is to completely block out everything (and anything) related to Russia or the Russian economy for the foreseeable future. If it's petty **** like this, it still needs to be done. They destabilized the entire European Continent for the first time since WW2. There HAS to be tremendous repercussions for what they have done.

 

[FISHDAWG]