year after year, our pitching staff has continued to have major injuries. It is severly costing our program not to have some of the best recruits we have brought to campus on the mound battling for us. Constant injuries tells me that his program is not working. This is a constant recurring theme. Hell, anybody can call pitches.
Its time for Russ McNickle to be fired
- Thread starter Coach34
- Start date
year after year, our pitching staff has continued to have major injuries. It is severly costing our program not to have some of the best recruits we have brought to campus on the mound battling for us. Constant injuries tells me that his program is not working. This is a constant recurring theme. Hell, anybody can call pitches.
Maybe we could bring him back as pitching coach. Seems like he always had better pitching than what we have this year.
That's a long way from the Sunshine State.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_McMahon
He left MSU to take the UF job, supposedly, because it was closer to some of the older members of his family. I wonder if the family situation has changed. I can't believe he couldn't have found a position closer to Florida.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_McMahon
He left MSU to take the UF job, supposedly, because it was closer to some of the older members of his family. I wonder if the family situation has changed. I can't believe he couldn't have found a position closer to Florida.
McMahon is a great pitching coach, and Polk would trust him with the pitching staff. It might help with Polk leaving people in too long. I don't know what we would do with McNickle- maybe have him coach catchers again, I don't know. I know that there are restrictions on how many coaches we can have, and McNickle is our best recruiter. If he goes, then we're left with Raffo, who has proven he can't recruit, Polk who won't, and McMahon who won't know who to recruit.
I think our pitching injuries fall more on the training staff because our injuries are things like hamstring pulls and muscle strains.
By the same token, I do agree that McNickle has not done a very good job at all with the pitching staff, and should have been able to identify that a pitcher was possibly injured (ie. sudden loss of velocity and control), and I wouldn't be all that opposed to him being fired, as long as we hire someone who can recruit as well as coach pitchers.
I think our pitching injuries fall more on the training staff because our injuries are things like hamstring pulls and muscle strains.
By the same token, I do agree that McNickle has not done a very good job at all with the pitching staff, and should have been able to identify that a pitcher was possibly injured (ie. sudden loss of velocity and control), and I wouldn't be all that opposed to him being fired, as long as we hire someone who can recruit as well as coach pitchers.
</p> First off you can thank Raffo for most of our recruits. He handles most of the responsibilities for recruiting. How do I know? I was a high school coach and delt with Raffo very much in recruiting.
Secondly, our pitching injuries are not as much on the training staff as it is McNickle. Coach McNickle's philosophy (I know this because he shared some of it with me) is to not use ICE! He is one of the very few that come from the school of thought that ICING hardens any lactic acid in the shoulder and therefore keeps soreness and injuries in. He believes you work the soreness out by using the arm and shoulder after pitching. For instance, lets say Pigott pitches. Of course he does his warmup which consists of warmup throws and pregame bullpen. Then, lets say Pigott throws 100 pitches and is removed from the game. Within 10 minutes of his last pitch, they basically spend 20 minutes on a stationary bike, do arm and shoulder drills with weighted medicine balls and then throw from the mound again in the pen. Next, they would run and then afterwards throw 10-20 more throws. Basically he does what Daisuke Matsuzaka does for the Red Sox.
Now, with that being said, only about 10-15% of pitching coaches do this. (IMHO) From the coaches I have spoke to and heard talk at the national coaches conventions, I have never heard of very many coaches who use this method.
Most coaches and pitchers like to ICE their arms with they are done with the game. They will also run afterwards. On the 2nd day they may do SOME but very little light tossing the following day. On the 3rd day they would long toss and do some flat ground work. On the 4th day they would toss more and do some bullpen work and be ready to throw again on the 5th day.Now from some of the kids I have relationships with on the team (I will not mention names) they have been allowed to ICE now to get the soreness and swelling down.
As far as calling pitches, McNickle has never, in my opinion, done a very good job.
You want to know an interesting fact? Remember Ricky Bowen's pitching performance Sunday where he flirted with a no hitter into the 9th inning? Guess who called the game? Did you guess Coach McNickle? Wrong! Did you guess Cody Freeman? Correct! I know for a fact.
I think Coach McNickle is an EXCELLANT guy and a GOOD coach but I do not think he has proven himself worthy at MSU and he has not produced many good numbers at all.
If you want, go to the MSU athletic site and go to baseball and then click on stats. You will be able to pull up stats from 2002 until now. Look at our pitchers numbers in 2002-2003 when we had Coach Darren Schoenrock. Our pitchers numbers were great. Look at our stats since Coach Rock left.
Thats all I have to say.
Have a good day!
Secondly, our pitching injuries are not as much on the training staff as it is McNickle. Coach McNickle's philosophy (I know this because he shared some of it with me) is to not use ICE! He is one of the very few that come from the school of thought that ICING hardens any lactic acid in the shoulder and therefore keeps soreness and injuries in. He believes you work the soreness out by using the arm and shoulder after pitching. For instance, lets say Pigott pitches. Of course he does his warmup which consists of warmup throws and pregame bullpen. Then, lets say Pigott throws 100 pitches and is removed from the game. Within 10 minutes of his last pitch, they basically spend 20 minutes on a stationary bike, do arm and shoulder drills with weighted medicine balls and then throw from the mound again in the pen. Next, they would run and then afterwards throw 10-20 more throws. Basically he does what Daisuke Matsuzaka does for the Red Sox.
Now, with that being said, only about 10-15% of pitching coaches do this. (IMHO) From the coaches I have spoke to and heard talk at the national coaches conventions, I have never heard of very many coaches who use this method.
Most coaches and pitchers like to ICE their arms with they are done with the game. They will also run afterwards. On the 2nd day they may do SOME but very little light tossing the following day. On the 3rd day they would long toss and do some flat ground work. On the 4th day they would toss more and do some bullpen work and be ready to throw again on the 5th day.Now from some of the kids I have relationships with on the team (I will not mention names) they have been allowed to ICE now to get the soreness and swelling down.
As far as calling pitches, McNickle has never, in my opinion, done a very good job.
You want to know an interesting fact? Remember Ricky Bowen's pitching performance Sunday where he flirted with a no hitter into the 9th inning? Guess who called the game? Did you guess Coach McNickle? Wrong! Did you guess Cody Freeman? Correct! I know for a fact.
I think Coach McNickle is an EXCELLANT guy and a GOOD coach but I do not think he has proven himself worthy at MSU and he has not produced many good numbers at all.
If you want, go to the MSU athletic site and go to baseball and then click on stats. You will be able to pull up stats from 2002 until now. Look at our pitchers numbers in 2002-2003 when we had Coach Darren Schoenrock. Our pitchers numbers were great. Look at our stats since Coach Rock left.
Thats all I have to say.
Have a good day!
Every year we have some serious ARM injuries. AW should under no circumstances have a sore arm unless it is something hereditaryat this point in the season. . I hate to say it but the drive by comment by Peaches hit the nail on the head for once. BoSox knows what he is talking about. Think about lalor for a moment, he was all world in High School and has never gotten better. Crosswhite has potential but has gotten worse. Whoever is calling Pigott's games this year is not doing a good job. With the right pitch he can be a solid Fri. night go to, most likely win guy. Maybe this is one of the reasons we can't recruit. I am a Polk apoligist to a degree but never have I liked McNickle. He is a Juco coach at best. That is where he has spent most or almost all of his career prior to coming back. I actually heard him say on talk radio in Jackson just a couple of weeks ago that MS State baseball recruits itself.
call pitches? being in the SEC, wouldn't you think your coach would call the big games, especially SEC games. not that he is incapable of doing it, but that is a very big job to put on a freshmen
For one, because Cody is a great game caller and called a 2 hit shutout Sunday against Ole Miss in his first game calling. Quite a difference from the previous games don't ya think?
And secondly, because, in my opinion as a pitching coach, the catcher knows how the pitcher is throwing that day. (movement on ball, location etc...) It is hard for a pitching coach to get a good gauge sitting from the side 50 feet away. I called almost all our games unless the pitcher felt more comfortable with our catcher. Pitchers put alot of faith and confidence into their catchers and they have a known bond and get on the same page together.
I promise you that Cody Freeman can call pitches. He is very good at calling games to keep hitters off balance changing speeds and locations.
I really think at this point that our pitching staff as a whole has lost all confidence and faith in Coach Mac. He is a great guy but he hasn't had any of his guys get better under his guidence. Josh Johnson, Chad Crosswhite, John Lalor and on and on and on.....
And secondly, because, in my opinion as a pitching coach, the catcher knows how the pitcher is throwing that day. (movement on ball, location etc...) It is hard for a pitching coach to get a good gauge sitting from the side 50 feet away. I called almost all our games unless the pitcher felt more comfortable with our catcher. Pitchers put alot of faith and confidence into their catchers and they have a known bond and get on the same page together.
I promise you that Cody Freeman can call pitches. He is very good at calling games to keep hitters off balance changing speeds and locations.
I really think at this point that our pitching staff as a whole has lost all confidence and faith in Coach Mac. He is a great guy but he hasn't had any of his guys get better under his guidence. Josh Johnson, Chad Crosswhite, John Lalor and on and on and on.....
it sounds to me like Polk is losing faith in McNickle. As good as Freeman may be, you have to admit that it's unusual for a coach to allow any true Fr. to call a game this early in his career. Also, the thing about some of the pitchers going back to using ice tells me that Polk is not exactly sold on his methods as well.
And as far as recruiting, you have to at least give McNickle credit for going out and getting Conner Powers and at least trying to recruit out of the south. I just have bad memories of Raffo getting totally pwned by a guy like Dan McDonnell.
And I'll say this- if McNickle is the problem with our team, we need to let him go. From what I've heard, I'm pretty well convinced that should be the case. I'm just going to say that not using ice on inflammed joints is flat out stupid.
And as far as recruiting, you have to at least give McNickle credit for going out and getting Conner Powers and at least trying to recruit out of the south. I just have bad memories of Raffo getting totally pwned by a guy like Dan McDonnell.
And I'll say this- if McNickle is the problem with our team, we need to let him go. From what I've heard, I'm pretty well convinced that should be the case. I'm just going to say that not using ice on inflammed joints is flat out stupid.
game caller. he is still a true freshmen and i cannot see how older pitchers can be so comfortable with him. do you know that the ole miss game is the only game that he has called? he may have called the pitches in some games we got raped in. a coach with years of experience, who has the other teams hitting charts should be calling the pitches over a freshmen. maybe work him in to calling pitches, an inning here and inning there but not full games, not yet anyway. just an opinion
HBO sports this month? There is a story on there about Mike Marshall who pitched for the Dodgers back in the 70's. He has come up with a radical throwing motion that is supposed to save pitchers arms. It's very funky looking. Read this article and watch the little video on the link.
Radical pitching coaching
Radical pitching coaching
"After all, Ricky Bowen in the postgame interview said he wanted to thank Cody Freeman for calling such a great game!!!"
we had a young catcher calling pitches and we almost threw a no-no...
mixing up location and pitches is not that hard of a concept
we had a young catcher calling pitches and we almost threw a no-no...
mixing up location and pitches is not that hard of a concept
It's a lot like mixing up your playcalling in football. Having a smart catcher is a huge plus. Perhaps this young freshman will turn out to be good at calling pitches over the long haul. Apparently he is better than our dugout already.
TheStone70 said:
</p>Yes. Ole Miss was the first game Cody called. Fact. If you are at the games just look at Cody. If he looks in the dugout then Coach Mac is calling. If not, Cody is calling.
I speak with Cody and several other players weekly and when I spoke with Cody Sunday night he informed me he called the game Sunday which I already knew cause I saw him at the game and he didnt look into the dugout to get the calls.
there are people that have more of a knack for it than others, however, through practice, knowing your pitchers, and teaching your philosophy to your catchers, most anybody on your team can call. When I was coaching, even though we called pitches, because of philosophy and scouting reports our catchers knew what was going to be called 90% of the time.</p>
Cody Freeman called every game at West Lauderdale starting in 9th Grade. For Jerry Boatner to trust him enough for that. well that speaks volumes. His mother told me that the coach he played for in Memphis in summer ball would not let him call the games and he hated it. Was having a hard time getting used to it.
posting 101... Why not try to act cool?
His post was at the very top and you didnt quote him to show that you were referring to him. And you also didn't mention his name either so it is kinda hard to follow EXACTLY who your comment was for.
You said "Hey Moron". There are an awful lot of morons around so maybe you could have narrowed it down.
And I agree 100% about your post before. Most all of the time the catchers were on the same page as we were and knew what we were gonna call. Plus, in between innings we communicated alot as far as how hard is he throwing, movement, location, where the hitters are (crowding plate or not) and we got a gauge on how to approach them to next at bats.
His post was at the very top and you didnt quote him to show that you were referring to him. And you also didn't mention his name either so it is kinda hard to follow EXACTLY who your comment was for.
You said "Hey Moron". There are an awful lot of morons around so maybe you could have narrowed it down.
And I agree 100% about your post before. Most all of the time the catchers were on the same page as we were and knew what we were gonna call. Plus, in between innings we communicated alot as far as how hard is he throwing, movement, location, where the hitters are (crowding plate or not) and we got a gauge on how to approach them to next at bats.
Yeah, I coached Cody some in some showcase tourneys and we let him call our games out there. And that was against some of the top players in the country. He knows how to call games and how to handle pitchers. Every pitcher is different. You have to know how to handle them differently. For instance, Pigott is a cool character and not easily rattled where as Crosswhite is. You have to handle them differently. Pigott doesn't need much calming down but Crosswhite would. See where I'm getting at? The catcher is the "coach" on the field. He sees every player and has the entire game in front of him. He has to be the "captain" or "coach" on the field.
And Cody is gonna be a great one at MSU. You couldn't ask for a better kid who is as humble as he is with all the talent he has got.
And Cody is gonna be a great one at MSU. You couldn't ask for a better kid who is as humble as he is with all the talent he has got.
Why does the fact that a catcher called the game make what you said any less stupid or me a moron? Instead, it means Freeman either got really lucky, Mississippi had a terrible day at the plate, and/ or Freeman called a great game.
Calling a game takes knowing the pitcher, knowing how the pitcher is locating and how effective his pitches are, and knowing the batters. It is much easier for a smart catcher to get a sense of the first two than it is for a coach sitting in the dugout. For these reasons, I work with my catchers on learning how to call the game themselves. I also think it takes away from the pitcher's rhythm to have to wait for the catcher to take the sign from the dugout, then give the pitcher the sign.
I've called pitches as a high school and an AAU coach. While I got pretty decent at it, it is still not something "anybody can do." I probably got pretty good at it because I'm not a moron. Disagreeing with your stupid posts certainly doesn't make me a moron. What makes someone a moron is saying the same things over and over, getting called out on them, and continuing to say them.
Calling a game takes knowing the pitcher, knowing how the pitcher is locating and how effective his pitches are, and knowing the batters. It is much easier for a smart catcher to get a sense of the first two than it is for a coach sitting in the dugout. For these reasons, I work with my catchers on learning how to call the game themselves. I also think it takes away from the pitcher's rhythm to have to wait for the catcher to take the sign from the dugout, then give the pitcher the sign.
I've called pitches as a high school and an AAU coach. While I got pretty decent at it, it is still not something "anybody can do." I probably got pretty good at it because I'm not a moron. Disagreeing with your stupid posts certainly doesn't make me a moron. What makes someone a moron is saying the same things over and over, getting called out on them, and continuing to say them.
I agree with you that NOT anybody can call a game. I never said that. I think you are reffering to Coach34.
I called pitches for several years and there is a artform to it. The key to it (IMO) is ALWAYS keep the hitter guessing. I want to get into their heads and make them think. Because when they are doing that they are not on their game.
One of the biggest things in calling pitches (IMO) is DO NOT get into a pattern where they can get a better idea of what you are going to throw. (Ex. Dont always call a curveball down in an 0-2 count) If you do that, then you are giving the hitter some kind of pattern to go by. I always tried to mix it up from at bat to at bat with a hitter.
There are exceptions though. If a kid has slow hands and cannot catch up with our pitchers fastball then I am just gonna go right at him. I am not gonna speed up his bat by throwing a changeup.
It is an artform and not easy. I was taught by some great coaches on how to attack hitters and call ballgames. You can't just sit there and call any pitch. It is not simple but if you are taught right and have that "knack" for knowing the game of pitching you can do it.
I think alot of people (not coaches) miss the point that you want to attack hitters. A great hall of fame hitter hits .300 and he failed to get a hit 70% of the time. Using that philosophy I want to attack the strike zone, keep hitters guessing and off balance, and make them swing the bat and get themselves out. Do you guys follow what I am saying or am I losing you? I have a hard time getting my point across on a keyboard because I tend to ramble.
I called pitches for several years and there is a artform to it. The key to it (IMO) is ALWAYS keep the hitter guessing. I want to get into their heads and make them think. Because when they are doing that they are not on their game.
One of the biggest things in calling pitches (IMO) is DO NOT get into a pattern where they can get a better idea of what you are going to throw. (Ex. Dont always call a curveball down in an 0-2 count) If you do that, then you are giving the hitter some kind of pattern to go by. I always tried to mix it up from at bat to at bat with a hitter.
There are exceptions though. If a kid has slow hands and cannot catch up with our pitchers fastball then I am just gonna go right at him. I am not gonna speed up his bat by throwing a changeup.
It is an artform and not easy. I was taught by some great coaches on how to attack hitters and call ballgames. You can't just sit there and call any pitch. It is not simple but if you are taught right and have that "knack" for knowing the game of pitching you can do it.
I think alot of people (not coaches) miss the point that you want to attack hitters. A great hall of fame hitter hits .300 and he failed to get a hit 70% of the time. Using that philosophy I want to attack the strike zone, keep hitters guessing and off balance, and make them swing the bat and get themselves out. Do you guys follow what I am saying or am I losing you? I have a hard time getting my point across on a keyboard because I tend to ramble.
That's why I replied to his post. I agree with everything you said. You might want to practice your skills hitting the right reply link.
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