New lawsuit to treat student athletics as employees.
Nuff said, nail it shut.
Nuff said, nail it shut.
Johnson vs NCAA
- Thread starter TaleofTwoDogs
- Start date
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the biggest implication of this would be centered around student athletes’ ability to unionize, right?
If so, I’m honestly at the point where I’m not sure this would be a bad thing. Anything that will help us reach a place where there is actual transparency and defined agreements surrounding NIL will be an improvement in my mind. It’s an absolute mess today
If so, I’m honestly at the point where I’m not sure this would be a bad thing. Anything that will help us reach a place where there is actual transparency and defined agreements surrounding NIL will be an improvement in my mind. It’s an absolute mess today
I agree. The universities make tens of millions from TV deals on the backs of the athletes but it is the responsibility of alumni and fans to pay the players, buy tickets, and donate to the athletic department? Makes no sense to me.
Let the schools start paying the talent what it's worth and maybe stop giving coaches these absurd contracts. Auburn could have paid every athlete on their campus a nice salary just from what they paid Chizik and Harsin to not coach there anymore.
New lawsuit to treat student athletics as employees.
Nuff said, nail it shut.
All this will do is cost the University more money yet still require the Bulldog Initiative to raise money too.
And then make sure they have to pay tax not only on the actual income but also on the cost of other benefits that other, paying students, do not receive for free.
If this works for college, why would it not be similar for High School?
Participation is voluntary, I thought.
Participation is voluntary, I thought.
You do know the difference between gross income and net income, right? The athletic dept has to fund all non-revenue generating sports with football and basketball money that comes in. All scholarships for those sports have to be funded. Not to mention building projects. Throw in salaries for athletes and it won't stop at football. You'll have other lawsuits to make sure the volleyball team is paid. And so on. Then we'll be far into the red and something will have to give somewhere. And that'll mean we will be less competitive because what will have to give is building projects and coaching salaries.
The further all of this goes, the more the common fan that dishes out hard earned dollars for tickets, parking passes, alumni support organizations, sweat shirts, etc, etc, etc, will say the heck with it and reduce or eliminate their support. It’s sad to see it happening but I think the best days of College Athletics are behind us. We had a great run.
And if a scholarship is taxed, guess what? We now have to give that kid money to cover the taxes and then that amount of cash has to be grossed up since it’s now taxable. I dont know why everyone is cheering for this.
The whole system needs to change. We can donate to the bulldog club so that the university can pay what it needs too. If they don't have enough to be competitive then they have to raise more money or cut costs somewhere. Tuition, room and board, health care, meal plan, etc should be a part of the compensation plan just like any other employee.
This is no criticism of the Initiative (I donate and realize the importance of doing so) but it is absurd that we as fans have to donate separately to pay athletes and the school cannot pay the athletes with any of the revenue they generate.
That would actually improve the situation.New lawsuit to treat student athletics as employees.
Nuff said, nail it shut.
How? It would cost tons of money to schools and do nothing about the NIL collectives. Like I said above. Think about a kid just getting a scholarship to be a 2nd team safety. If thats taxes we have to get him money to pay the taxes and the taxes on that cash. Be careful what you wish for.
I'm all for transparency, treating athletes fairly and accountability. But we all have to agree, NIL in conjunction with the Portal have forever changed college sports. It's pay to play now and there is no equality in funds and sources to pay. So the rich get richer. There will soon be a Super Conference based solely on $$$. IMO.
I hate what NIL and the Portal have done to college athletics.
I'm thinking this is the right answer. Not sure what entities are issuing 1099's now to the players but that would change to the schools issuing W-2's to them if I'm understanding this thing right thus making the players employees rather than independent contractors. This likely will create college sports team leagues that could operate like NFL, NBA and MLB that would create salary caps and yes unions as well. Not sure how the non revenue sports would be financially integrated into a system like this; prolly Football and Hoops having to subsidize I reckon. Overall I think this new system with salary caps would stabilize the chaos we have now.
Can't be at this early of a juncture. The W-2 VS 1099 issue has to be settled in court before the schools can start hammering away with salary cap details. At least this is what I'm thinking at the moment and I could be wrong.
Do you watch pro sports at all? It would basically be a move toward consistent rules for all. From portal guidelines to payment, it would improve the situation. My question to you would be, why do fans feel like they shouldn't have to support their programs by giving money? That's always been a part State fans suck at comparatively speaking. Taxes are withheld from payment to employees. It won't cost us more.
I dont have an issue with fans supporting the school.
But it would cost more. The backup safety’s 50k scholarship now costs you roughly 60k. And guess what? NIL will still around asking fans for money and paying out egregious deals. So we are costing the university and fans more for what? What are we gaining?
Just get rid of the portal and make scholarships guaranteed for X years. Employment won’t help anything.
The NFL has teams worth billions and only 32 Of them. Its a totally different animal.
The NIL collectives would go away if the schools paid the athletes directly. Which would make the whole process more efficient by eliminating the middle-man and added expense that brings. As for the scholarships, they will never be taxed as long as they're used for tuition or other qualified education expenses. Only the salary would be taxed.
Good to know and that helps. But again I still dont see the benefit in this. NILs will stick around or the money will go to the BC (6 one way or half a dozen the other) bc there really isn’t net income to Distribute to these kids for salaries at most schools. It will still be a money grab. And if they have a salary cap then the NILs will definitely stick around. Maybe it helps but I think people are jumping the gun on it. I’m just not seeing it
I’ll say it again. The model to follow is the IVY League. The En Ef El needs to create its own minor league.
I think instead of donating $1,000 to the Bulldog Club and $1,000 to the Bulldog Initiative, you'll just donate $2,000 to the Bulldog Club and the increased donation (as well as part of the original $1,000) will be used for player salaries. I'm sure the coaches will be screaming bloody murder over this because their gravy train is going to get cut back and partially redistributed to the players if this goes through. Would you rather pay $12M to Nick Saban and $2M to the players or pay $10M to the players and $4M to a Shane Beamer?
Oh I don’t care. My entire point has been that employment status is overblown and won’t really help what we hate about all this.
It is going to be funny when athletes want to go back to under the table payment to avoid taxes.
No matter what they come up with, it will never be enough, and some boosters will never stop cheating. The well has been poisoned.
This is probably the truest statement that's been posted on this board in months
Couldn't possibly agree more. However, I think we also need to agree that this isn't a scenario where one side is right and other is wrong. There are legit claims on both ends of the spectrum. The problem today, though, is that in addition to NIL and the portal being a part of college athletics, there is next to zero structure around either of them and whatever rules we do have are laughable at best.
By moving forward with this employee proposal and thus allowing college athletes to unionize, the most important thing it does is introduce a requirement to negotiate. In other words, if players want unlimited NIL, maybe schools agree, but it may come with a concession regarding how much is guaranteed, what would have to be reimbursed following a transfer, or possibly even whether a transfer is allowed at all. It'll be a legit CBA in which both sides will have to give and take. Believe me, I don't like this age of pay for play either, but I do feel that any structure is better than what we have today.
Lastly, while we're talking about transparency and us all agreeing on certain things... I'd like to get one more thing out in the open. Whatever comes of this student athlete union, it won't be about the "working/playing" conditions of all student athletes. It will be about how much money college football and men's basketball players can make as quickly as possible and for as little work as possible. Nothing more, nothing less
Saw last week.New lawsuit to treat student athletics as employees.
Nuff said, nail it shut.
Briefly thought about posting it here.
Decided I’d wait until the judges make their decision especially when the Twitter pundits seemed to think the judges might rule against the NCAA based on their questioning.
Nobody can limit NIL. A player can earn as much NIL as they want to. That will not be negotiated. NIL isn’t a salary.
If I want to watch professional ball, which is what this ****-show has become now, I've got much better product offerings than college players. Since this has become pay-for-play, I no longer feel a connection to or passion for the team or players. I've pulled for Mississippi State precisely because it is my alma mater, and because, even though I know there have been under-the-table deals, it had not gone so far as to make me feel no connection.
I still felt is was mostly just fellow student amateur athletes who played for us primarily because they wanted to be a part of our family, tradition, values, etc. I still felt is was mostly about the scholarship rewards, getting an education and/or love of the game. Naive or not, I could feel that way.
Now I can't. I just can't bring myself to give a damn about any student athletes who are, in essence, professionals, mercenaries, etc. There is just far too much separation from the "student athlete as an amateur" model that contributed so much to my caring for and loyalty to these players, and thus the teams. They are no longer "one-of-us" in the way they were before. And if they aren't one-of-us, I don't give a flying flip about them. I just don't care.
The good news is, at least now I'm spared the agonizing frustration of disappointing games, performances, seasons, etc. I'll miss the excitement, feeling of hope, & all that. It definitely leaves a hole, but I might be able to fill a little of that by replacing it with something else I can come to care more about.
I suspect there will be a high enough % of people who feel similar to the way I do that the players will have killed the golden goose that provided so many with a college education, and for the best, great preparation for a lucrative career in the NFL. When fan participation drops, so does revenue. When revenue drops, so will the paydays these athletes are insisting on.
I still felt is was mostly just fellow student amateur athletes who played for us primarily because they wanted to be a part of our family, tradition, values, etc. I still felt is was mostly about the scholarship rewards, getting an education and/or love of the game. Naive or not, I could feel that way.
Now I can't. I just can't bring myself to give a damn about any student athletes who are, in essence, professionals, mercenaries, etc. There is just far too much separation from the "student athlete as an amateur" model that contributed so much to my caring for and loyalty to these players, and thus the teams. They are no longer "one-of-us" in the way they were before. And if they aren't one-of-us, I don't give a flying flip about them. I just don't care.
The good news is, at least now I'm spared the agonizing frustration of disappointing games, performances, seasons, etc. I'll miss the excitement, feeling of hope, & all that. It definitely leaves a hole, but I might be able to fill a little of that by replacing it with something else I can come to care more about.
I suspect there will be a high enough % of people who feel similar to the way I do that the players will have killed the golden goose that provided so many with a college education, and for the best, great preparation for a lucrative career in the NFL. When fan participation drops, so does revenue. When revenue drops, so will the paydays these athletes are insisting on.
Maybe they should turn all non-revenue sports into club sports, or even intramural. .
And now that this crazy BS is going on where actual males are allowed to play as women, perhaps Title IX should be reconsidered & done away with. As far as I'm concerned Title IX only exists to protect & promote female student athletes. That's been corrupted, so why bother with it anymore?
Make women's sports club-level, and maybe allow for scholarships for club sports. Do away with scholarships for NCAA sports and charge the professional college athletes tuition, r&b, medical, tutoring, etc. Maybe even charge them for facility use, coaches salaries, etc. as a % of their NIL income. All NIL deals for 4 years, so if an athlete transfers they have to pay back every dime of NIL they took from their previous school.
If there was a "pro" Mississippi State team and a "club" team of the same sport...let's use football, I'd care more about following & cheering for the club team, I'd care more about a club-based league than I would what we are going through now. Let the school fund the coaching staff, & give the club athletes some of the same perks our formerly amateur student-athletes were getting before the craziness.
Have strict rules regarding amateur status. If, as a player or recruit you are found to have accepted money under the table you are expelled from your university...period. If, as a university you are found to have knowingly allowed such shenanigans you are expelled from the league automatically for a pre-determined number of seasons...period. that, or have a lower division that you get sent to, etc.
Never happen, I know, but I'd absolutely care for & cheer for those teams before I would the hired guns. I'd buy & wear their gear over the other as well.
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My dad said years ago they should quit requiring them to be student athletes. Just make it a semi pro league. That was 10 years and it is happening.
I would imagine that as employees they sign away their name and likeness (NIL) rights in exchange for their pay. Thus giving the NCAA the right to restrict outside payments, with the authority to sanction the player and school if caught. If done right it could work better than the old days.
The answer is No. He probably doesn’t know the difference in a balance sheet and an income statement
You’re not alone. The more this turns towards professionalism the less I’m interested. Hell I felt guilty about signing up for the initiative but I know that’s what we need to compete but if players start getting paid by the school I’m out on contributing to players who could care less about MSU and are here just for $$$. There’s too many other hobbies or events I can participate in and be happy without paying folks who don’t give a crap about my beloved alma mater.
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