Latest News & Developments in Champlain Towers Collapse. WHY DID THE BUILDING COLLAPSE OCCUR AT EARLY MORNING HRS & NOT DURING THE DAY?

[step.eng69]

Ooooooo,
Josh Porter's "Crime, Corruption & Incompetence video concerning the history of the Towers is very interesting. Porter also has a three part series of the upcomming lawsuits. I attached the first in the series below, at the end of my post




"Construction of a luxury building next door triggered the collapse of an already fragile Florida condominium that killed 98 people in June, according to a new lawsuit.

The lawsuit, filed late Tuesday on behalf of Champlain Towers South victims and family members, contends that work on the adjacent Eighty Seven Park tower damaged and destabilized a building in dire need of major structural repair.

Champlain Towers, the lawsuit claims, “was an older building in need of routine repairs and maintenance, but it was not until excavation and construction began on the luxury high-rise condominium project next door” that the building became unsafe."

“The collapse was entirely preventable,” the lawsuit says.

 

[Nitt1300]

lawyers must be salivating over this deal

 

[step.eng69]

WHY DID THE BUILDING COLLAPSE OCCUR AT EARLY MORNING HRS & NOT DURING THE DAY?
Very interesting discussion of the early morning ambient temperature vs the core temperature of the concrete pool deck material. Temperature loads are always taken into consideration in the design of structures, but in the cause of the collapse, the concrete expansion due to the core temperature of the pool deck maintained the building's stability UNTIL the reinforcement connections to the perimeter walls failed.

 

[Grant Green]

Ooooooo,
Josh Porter's "Crime, Corruption & Incompetence video concerning the history of the Towers is very interesting. Porter also has a three part series of the upcomming lawsuits. I attached the first in the series below, at the end of my post




"Construction of a luxury building next door triggered the collapse of an already fragile Florida condominium that killed 98 people in June, according to a new lawsuit.

The lawsuit, filed late Tuesday on behalf of Champlain Towers South victims and family members, contends that work on the adjacent Eighty Seven Park tower damaged and destabilized a building in dire need of major structural repair.

Champlain Towers, the lawsuit claims, “was an older building in need of routine repairs and maintenance, but it was not until excavation and construction began on the luxury high-rise condominium project next door” that the building became unsafe."

“The collapse was entirely preventable,” the lawsuit says.

Don't have time to watch the videos now. Were they dewatering for the nearby excavation?
There is speculation that local dewatering was the cause of the infamous Millennium Tower. I am working on a settlement investigation now that was most likely exacerbated by dewatering on a project next door.

 

[step.eng69]

Don't have time to watch the videos now. Were they dewatering for the nearby excavation?
There is speculation that local dewatering was the cause of the infamous Millennium Tower. I am working on a settlement investigation now that was most likely exacerbated by dewatering on a project next door.

The lawsuits of the Champlain TS contend the the adjacent building construction as completed
( Eighty Seven Park tower) had the surface waters flowing into the CTS perimeter walls causing exacerbation of the deteriorating and failure of pool deck connection.
Personally, the only innocent party's are members of the HOA that wanted the building repaired.
Crime, greed, corruption and incompetance continued from the early CTS construction to the newly constructed 87 Park Tower, contractors, engineers, politicians & building inspectors, HOA board members, all culpable for the disaster.

I believe the Millennium Tower was exposed to the dewatering of clayey material, causing the expansiveness of the clay to shrink.

 

[NL2017]

Does anyone know how/if HOA board members are exposed to pending litigation on a personal basis? Thanks.

 

[step.eng69]

Does anyone know how/if HOA board members are exposed to pending litigation on a personal basis? Thanks.

NL2017, SOME INTERESTING information concerning a condo owner @ 2:09 into the video.

 

[NL2017]

NL2017, SOME INTERESTING information concerning a condo owner @ 2:09 into the video.

Thank you step. Fascinating follow-up!

 

[Grant Green]

I believe the Millennium Tower was exposed to the dewatering of clayey material, causing the expansiveness of the clay to shrink.

I haven't done a deep dive, so not sure. That seems plausible, but equally, or more plausible is that soil stress increased as water dropped due to the increase in effective weight of drained soil layers, which caused settlement. I think that the piles tipped out in sand IIRC, so the sand probably wouldn't settle, but the overlying clay could settle and induce downdrag forces on the piles. Caveat - this is only if dewatering occurred and affected groundwater elevations below the building.

 

[step.eng69]

I haven't done a deep dive, so not sure. That seems plausible, but equally, or more plausible is that soil stress increased as water dropped due to the increase in effective weight of drained soil layers, which caused settlement. I think that the piles tipped out in sand IIRC, so the sand probably wouldn't settle, but the overlying clay could settle and induce downdrag forces on the piles. Caveat - this is only if dewatering occurred and affected groundwater elevations below the building.

A little off topic....enjoy

 

[step.eng69]

Thank you step. Fascinating follow-up!

Good to be a little helpful NL2017

 

[step.eng69]

I haven't done a deep dive, so not sure. That seems plausible, but equally, or more plausible is that soil stress increased as water dropped due to the increase in effective weight of drained soil layers, which caused settlement. I think that the piles tipped out in sand IIRC, so the sand probably wouldn't settle, but the overlying clay could settle and induce downdrag forces on the piles. Caveat - this is only if dewatering occurred and affected groundwater elevations below the building.

Bottom line with the geothenical advice the engineers received......
The 10 foot thick mud slab-pile cap should have had the piles driven 250 feet into bedrock. Developers felt the cost was too high, i guess they believed friction piles driven into the clay material would be cost effective!!

 

[Nohow]

Bottom line with the geothenical advice the engineers received......
The 10 foot thick mud slab-pile cap should have had the piles driven 250 feet into bedrock. Developers felt the cost was too high, i guess they believed friction piles driven into the clay material would be cost effective!!

Hey, it’s Florida.

 

[step.eng69]

Hey, it’s Florida.

Sorry, but Grant Green and I were discussing the Millennium Towers in San Francisco.

 

[PAgeologist]

I haven't done a deep dive, so not sure. That seems plausible, but equally, or more plausible is that soil stress increased as water dropped due to the increase in effective weight of drained soil layers, which caused settlement. I think that the piles tipped out in sand IIRC, so the sand probably wouldn't settle, but the overlying clay could settle and induce downdrag forces on the piles. Caveat - this is only if dewatering occurred and affected groundwater elevations below the building.

It could be the sand wasn't dewatered enough. I've seen sand formations that felt like you were walking on a water bed when saturated, but became completely stable and hard when dewatered.

Saturated sand generally doesn't like to be disturbed and could lose any strength or stability it may have. Destabilizing the sand would likely have an effect on the stability of overlying soil layers and certainly any piles that terminate in the sand.

 

[PAgeologist]

Bottom line with the geothenical advice the engineers received......
The 10 foot thick mud slab-pile cap should have had the piles driven 250 feet into bedrock. Developers felt the cost was too high, i guess they believed friction piles driven into the clay material would be cost effective!!

Friction and clay don't exactly go together, especially if water is present. I've done oversight on caissons into claystone but on a much smaller building.

 

[Grant Green]

It could be the sand wasn't dewatered enough. I've seen sand formations that felt like you were walking on a water bed when saturated, but became completely stable and hard when dewatered.

Saturated sand generally doesn't like to be disturbed and could lose any strength or stability it may have. Destabilizing the sand would likely have an effect on the stability of overlying soil layers and certainly any piles that terminate in the sand.

Yeah, I've seen that happen even with aggregate. It pumps under compaction when wet, but it's actually very dense (very little air voids). When it dries, it's like concrete. In this case, the Colma sand layer is too deep to dewater. The neighboring buildings wouldn't have to lower GW that much to keep excavations dry.

Friction and clay don't exactly go together, especially if water is present. I've done oversight on caissons into claystone but on a much smaller building.

I think he meant that piles were driven to the clay. The friction was coming from the Colma sand, just above the Old Bay clay.

 

[step.eng69]

Yeah, I've seen that happen even with aggregate. It pumps under compaction when wet, but it's actually very dense (very little air voids). When it dries, it's like concrete. In this case, the Colma sand layer is too deep to dewater. The neighboring buildings wouldn't have to lower GW that much to keep excavations dry.


I think he meant that piles were driven to the clay. The friction was coming from the Colma sand, just above the Old Bay clay.

 

[Grant Green]

Bottom line with the geothenical advice the engineers received......
The 10 foot thick mud slab-pile cap should have had the piles driven 250 feet into bedrock. Developers felt the cost was too high, i guess they believed friction piles driven into the clay material would be cost effective!!

I believe the piles to fix it were finally driven to the bedrock. I think there have been a number of high rise projects in the area that used friction piles. I assume the Millennium was just heavy enough that it didn't work. That happened to the Mandalay in Vegas. There was a history of putting buildings on mat foundations on the hard caliche layers, but the Mandalay had higher loads than previous structures. I believe that the caliche layers yielded and the building settled as construction was occurring.

 

[step.eng69]

I believe the piles to fix it were finally driven to the bedrock. I think there have been a number of high rise projects in the area that used friction piles. I assume the Millennium was just heavy enough that it didn't work. That happened to the Mandalay in Vegas. There was a history of putting buildings on mat foundations on the hard caliche layers, but the Mandalay had higher loads than previous structures. I believe that the caliche layers yielded and the building settled as construction was occurring.

Monitoring data shows that 10 inches of that tilt and about 2 inches of settlement occurred during work on the so-called fix last year​

By Jaxon Van Derbeken • Published January 6, 2022 • Updated on January 8, 2022 at 9:55 am​

The engineer responsible for the troubled fix of the Millennium Tower acknowledged Thursday that the building is continuing to tilt about 3 inches a year since work began.
He also revealed that his team did not provide any instructions to the fix contractor on ways to prevent the tower’s sinking and tilting from getting worse from drilling and digging around two sides of the foundation.

City Supervisor Aaron Peskin appeared Thursday weary of holding multiple hearings over the last five years about the fate of the sinking and leaning tower, which is now tilting some 26 inches north and west at the corner of Fremont and Mission streets.

Delays in Millennium-Fix Pile Process May Explain Additional Sinking, Leaning​

​

Fewer Support Piles Under Revised Millennium Tower Fix​

Monitoring data shows that 10 inches of that tilt and about 2 inches of settlement occurred during work on the so-called fix last year.
“We start this new year 2022 as we ended last year and many other years, with the Millennium Tower continuing to sink and tilt,” a clearly exasperated Peskin said before introducing fix engineer Ron Hamburger at the hearing.

In his remarks, Hamburger acknowledged for the first time that his team did not provide any initial guidance to Shimmick Construction, the fix contractor, on ways to limit the impact of the drilling and digging to install steel support piles.
“The procedures for installing piles were basically the contractor’s prerogative,” Hamburger told city supervisors. “We did not tell them how to install piles. We specified that we needed piles of a given diameter and strength. And he basically did those as a design build to install the piles in which he determined the methods by which he would install them.”

Peskin turned to city officials, who assured him that was standard practice for such projects.
“This is a 50-plus story building, very heavy, in the heart of downtown San Francisco,” Peskin countered. “I don’t think there’s a lot of room here for on-the-job learning.”

Hamburger separately revealed that the building continues to tilt at the rate of three inches per year.
“The building does continue to settle at a rate of about one half inch per year and to tilt at a rate of about three inches per year,” he said. “It is doing this whether we are conducting work at the site or not. The building remains safe, but although the building remains safe, we believe the project needs to resume construction and complete this construction quickly.”

At the current rate, the tower’s lean could reach the functional 40-inch maximum – the point Hamburger says the elevators and plumbing may not continue to operate – in just a few years without the fix. Installing 18 steel piles to bedrock now is the best way to stop the tilting and possibly reverse some of it, he told supervisors.

“It’s in everyone’s interest that this project is completed as quickly as possible,” he concluded.

 

[Grant Green]

Monitoring data shows that 10 inches of that tilt and about 2 inches of settlement occurred during work on the so-called fix last year​

By Jaxon Van Derbeken • Published January 6, 2022 • Updated on January 8, 2022 at 9:55 am​

The engineer responsible for the troubled fix of the Millennium Tower acknowledged Thursday that the building is continuing to tilt about 3 inches a year since work began.
He also revealed that his team did not provide any instructions to the fix contractor on ways to prevent the tower’s sinking and tilting from getting worse from drilling and digging around two sides of the foundation.

City Supervisor Aaron Peskin appeared Thursday weary of holding multiple hearings over the last five years about the fate of the sinking and leaning tower, which is now tilting some 26 inches north and west at the corner of Fremont and Mission streets.

​

Delays in Millennium-Fix Pile Process May Explain Additional Sinking, Leaning​

Fewer Support Piles Under Revised Millennium Tower Fix​

Monitoring data shows that 10 inches of that tilt and about 2 inches of settlement occurred during work on the so-called fix last year.
“We start this new year 2022 as we ended last year and many other years, with the Millennium Tower continuing to sink and tilt,” a clearly exasperated Peskin said before introducing fix engineer Ron Hamburger at the hearing.

In his remarks, Hamburger acknowledged for the first time that his team did not provide any initial guidance to Shimmick Construction, the fix contractor, on ways to limit the impact of the drilling and digging to install steel support piles.
“The procedures for installing piles were basically the contractor’s prerogative,” Hamburger told city supervisors. “We did not tell them how to install piles. We specified that we needed piles of a given diameter and strength. And he basically did those as a design build to install the piles in which he determined the methods by which he would install them.”

Peskin turned to city officials, who assured him that was standard practice for such projects.
“This is a 50-plus story building, very heavy, in the heart of downtown San Francisco,” Peskin countered. “I don’t think there’s a lot of room here for on-the-job learning.”

Hamburger separately revealed that the building continues to tilt at the rate of three inches per year.
“The building does continue to settle at a rate of about one half inch per year and to tilt at a rate of about three inches per year,” he said. “It is doing this whether we are conducting work at the site or not. The building remains safe, but although the building remains safe, we believe the project needs to resume construction and complete this construction quickly.”

At the current rate, the tower’s lean could reach the functional 40-inch maximum – the point Hamburger says the elevators and plumbing may not continue to operate – in just a few years without the fix. Installing 18 steel piles to bedrock now is the best way to stop the tilting and possibly reverse some of it, he told supervisors.

“It’s in everyone’s interest that this project is completed as quickly as possible,” he concluded.

Ah, so must be the proposed fix as they clearly have not driven more piles yet.
Never bend to the developer's attempts to cut costs.

 

[PAgeologist]

Yeah, I've seen that happen even with aggregate. It pumps under compaction when wet, but it's actually very dense (very little air voids). When it dries, it's like concrete. In this case, the Colma sand layer is too deep to dewater. The neighboring buildings wouldn't have to lower GW that much to keep excavations dry.


I think he meant that piles were driven to the clay. The friction was coming from the Colma sand, just above the Old Bay clay.

Ok. Guess i should have read a little more into it rather than just skimming through.

 

[PAgeologist]

Monitoring data shows that 10 inches of that tilt and about 2 inches of settlement occurred during work on the so-called fix last year​

By Jaxon Van Derbeken • Published January 6, 2022 • Updated on January 8, 2022 at 9:55 am​

The engineer responsible for the troubled fix of the Millennium Tower acknowledged Thursday that the building is continuing to tilt about 3 inches a year since work began.
He also revealed that his team did not provide any instructions to the fix contractor on ways to prevent the tower’s sinking and tilting from getting worse from drilling and digging around two sides of the foundation.

City Supervisor Aaron Peskin appeared Thursday weary of holding multiple hearings over the last five years about the fate of the sinking and leaning tower, which is now tilting some 26 inches north and west at the corner of Fremont and Mission streets.

​

Delays in Millennium-Fix Pile Process May Explain Additional Sinking, Leaning​

Fewer Support Piles Under Revised Millennium Tower Fix​

Monitoring data shows that 10 inches of that tilt and about 2 inches of settlement occurred during work on the so-called fix last year.
“We start this new year 2022 as we ended last year and many other years, with the Millennium Tower continuing to sink and tilt,” a clearly exasperated Peskin said before introducing fix engineer Ron Hamburger at the hearing.

In his remarks, Hamburger acknowledged for the first time that his team did not provide any initial guidance to Shimmick Construction, the fix contractor, on ways to limit the impact of the drilling and digging to install steel support piles.
“The procedures for installing piles were basically the contractor’s prerogative,” Hamburger told city supervisors. “We did not tell them how to install piles. We specified that we needed piles of a given diameter and strength. And he basically did those as a design build to install the piles in which he determined the methods by which he would install them.”

Peskin turned to city officials, who assured him that was standard practice for such projects.
“This is a 50-plus story building, very heavy, in the heart of downtown San Francisco,” Peskin countered. “I don’t think there’s a lot of room here for on-the-job learning.”

Hamburger separately revealed that the building continues to tilt at the rate of three inches per year.
“The building does continue to settle at a rate of about one half inch per year and to tilt at a rate of about three inches per year,” he said. “It is doing this whether we are conducting work at the site or not. The building remains safe, but although the building remains safe, we believe the project needs to resume construction and complete this construction quickly.”

At the current rate, the tower’s lean could reach the functional 40-inch maximum – the point Hamburger says the elevators and plumbing may not continue to operate – in just a few years without the fix. Installing 18 steel piles to bedrock now is the best way to stop the tilting and possibly reverse some of it, he told supervisors.

“It’s in everyone’s interest that this project is completed as quickly as possible,” he concluded.

The Geotechnical engineer I used to work with said the only thing worse than settling is differential settling.

 

[PAgeologist]

Ah, so must be the proposed fix as they clearly have not driven more piles yet.
Never bend to the developer's attempts to cut costs.

You have to wonder how the foundation design passed as well. I have to imagine someone is going to lose their PE license over this. I've seen companies go under for less.

 

[Grant Green]

You have to wonder how the foundation design passed as well. I have to imagine someone is going to lose their PE license over this. I've seen companies go under for less.

I guess it will depend on how closely they followed standard practice. If they cut corners, inflated soil parameters to make it work, didn't take borings deep enough, etc. could be a loss of PE. If they did what had been proven to work in the past and dewatering from other sites was a contributor, may be ok. As I'm sure you know, there are so many variable when it comes to soil. Sometimes you do things right, but it goes badly.
They will surely be sued, if not already.

 

[step.eng69]

Ah, so must be the proposed fix as they clearly have not driven more piles yet.
Never bend to the developer's attempts to cut costs.

You have to wonder how the foundation design passed as well. I have to imagine someone is going to lose their PE license over this. I've seen companies go under for less.

Latest by Josh Porter

 

[EPC FAN]

lawyers must be salivating over this deal

Scumbags are always salivating at money.

 

[Yogiman71]

Florida is going to be under water a lot sooner than people think. I don’t think these will be the last of beachside towers to collapse. A good article is titled « The world’s coastal cities are sinking, but not for the reason you think » by Camille Squires. Just an fyi.

 

[Woodpecker]

Scumbags are always salivating at money.

I know that I do

 

[Yogiman71]

I know that I do

Réal Estate Developers are the scourge of the earth.

 

[step.eng69]

Florida is going to be under water a lot sooner than people think. I don’t think these will be the last of beachside towers to collapse. A good article is titled « The world’s coastal cities are sinking, but not for the reason you think » by Camille Squires. Just an fyi.

Thanks for the article....
I read years ago there may become a problem of ground subsidence due to draining (pumping) aquafers along with raising ocean levels. interesting that the pumping of the aquifers release the pressure on the tectonic plates causing the plates to slippage.

 

[Nittany.Lion]

Ooooooo,
Josh Porter's "Crime, Corruption & Incompetence video concerning the history of the Towers is very interesting. Porter also has a three part series of the upcomming lawsuits. I attached the first in the series below, at the end of my post




"Construction of a luxury building next door triggered the collapse of an already fragile Florida condominium that killed 98 people in June, according to a new lawsuit.

The lawsuit, filed late Tuesday on behalf of Champlain Towers South victims and family members, contends that work on the adjacent Eighty Seven Park tower damaged and destabilized a building in dire need of major structural repair.

Champlain Towers, the lawsuit claims, “was an older building in need of routine repairs and maintenance, but it was not until excavation and construction began on the luxury high-rise condominium project next door” that the building became unsafe."

“The collapse was entirely preventable,” the lawsuit says.

Nearly $1B settlement announced in deadly Surfside condo collapse - ABC News (go.com)

 

[Georgia Peach]

Does anyone know how/if HOA board members are exposed to pending litigation on a personal basis? Thanks.

Many states have statutes governing HOA's, or "common interest communities" and they provide liability protections for individual HOA officers. Don't know about Florida.

 

[Georgia Peach]

Réal Estate Developers are the scourge of the earth.

Mostly when aided by accomplices at the State and County level who look the other way on engineering and environmental issues.

 

[Georgia Peach]

Scumbags are always salivating at money.

If you had a family member in that condo would you hire a lawyer?

 

[91Joe95]

Nearly $1B settlement announced in deadly Surfside condo collapse - ABC News (go.com)

That's a nice chunk of change for the lawyers. For big settlements like this do they typically get a percentage, or is there a fixed administrative fee for them?

Another observation - there's not a hint of global warming mentioned in the settlement, yet the reporters were extremely quick to assign blame to it. This talks about new construction, increased footprint, drainage, etc.

I wonder why the settlement occurred so quickly. Did the defendants have something they wanted to keep hidden? Did politicians exert pressure? Was valuable new construction held up until this was settled? Something else?

 

[step.eng69]

Nearly $1B settlement announced in deadly Surfside condo collapse - ABC News (go.com)

Lawyers involved in the class-action lawsuit representing tenants from the oceanfront building in Surfside announced a $997 million settlement had been reached.

I wonder what the tenants are receiving?

 

[JakkL]

I would guess half.