Leach Passing (RIP) = USM hiring Ellis Johnson?

Sep 11, 2019
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USM was a good program through Bower and Fedora. Fedora leaves and they hire Ellis Johnson. Johnson goes 0-12 and USM hasn't been the same since.

Is the passing of CML is the event that forever changes our football program for the worse. Is the passing of CML our "Ellis Johnson" moment. So far in hindsight, it appears that way.

Thoughts?
 
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Lucifer Morningstar

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Honestly, I think it very well could be. That being said, the dawgs have had rough patches before so this could just be the next one of those.
 

85Bears

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Leaving out some details there Burt. Keenum naming Arnett Permanent Coach, Arnett nuking the program, Firing Leachs staff, changing the offense to the wing T, boosters hiring staff, BP leading Arnett around by the hand on the sideline, Two years of zero recruits in the transfer portal, hiring a first time AD to hire a first time head coach to hiring a first time DC.

See it’s a series of blunders and insanely stupid moves that would destroy and devastate any program. it’s mismanagement so bad, it Almost looks intentional.
 

maroontide06

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Leaving out some details there Burt. Keenum naming Arnett Permanent Coach, Arnett nuking the program, Firing Leachs staff, changing the offense to the wing T, boosters hiring staff, BP leading Arnett around by the hand on the sideline, Two years of zero recruits in the transfer portal, hiring a first time AD to hire a first time head coach to hiring a first time DC.

See it’s a series of blunders and insanely stupid moves that would destroy and devastate any program. it’s mismanagement so bad, it Almost looks intentional.
Hey now, the Wing T is a good offense. That's not what Arnett changed the offense to. Arnett went to the Barbay dysfunctional, limp low-T offense LOL.
 

615dawg

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The timing of Leach's passing was awful. Cohen had just left so we did not have an AD. He had just hired Freeze and Freeze was poaching our recruits. Keenum panicked and named Arnett the permanent coach to save the recruiting class.

In hindsight, a proper coaching search would have likely landed an Air Raid disciple that could have leveraged Will Rogers. Arnett destroyed our program in one season. Lebby isn't the guy that can fix it, although I don't think you can fire him until after year 3 because of the schedule. We are truly looking at 0-8 again next year, which will be 20 consecutive SEC losses. The record is 23. The schedule flips in 2026 so it depends on the order of our schedule whether we will hit that or not. If we start with Alabama, South Carolina and LSU - we'll probably set a new record. If we get Kentucky, Vanderbilt or Auburn in the first three, maybe we won't.

The post-2026 hire will be the most important in Mississippi State history. Need Keenum and Selmon out of the picture by then.

Remember the Croom era? This is going to be worse:

State lost 9 consecutive SEC games from 2002-03, won 1, lost their next 9, won 2 in a row in 2004, then dropped 10 consecutive — the final 3 league games of 2004 and the first 7 in 2005. 3-28. We are at 0-12 right now and 0-20 is very probable.
 

patdog

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The timing of Leach's passing was awful. Cohen had just left so we did not have an AD. He had just hired Freeze and Freeze was poaching our recruits. Keenum panicked and named Arnett the permanent coach to save the recruiting class.

In hindsight, a proper coaching search would have likely landed an Air Raid disciple that could have leveraged Will Rogers. Arnett destroyed our program in one season. Lebby isn't the guy that can fix it, although I don't think you can fire him until after year 3 because of the schedule. We are truly looking at 0-8 again next year, which will be 20 consecutive SEC losses. The record is 23. The schedule flips in 2026 so it depends on the order of our schedule whether we will hit that or not. If we start with Alabama, South Carolina and LSU - we'll probably set a new record. If we get Kentucky, Vanderbilt or Auburn in the first three, maybe we won't.

The post-2026 hire will be the most important in Mississippi State history. Need Keenum and Selmon out of the picture by then.
Agree except I think Lebby is fired a year from now. And unfortunately, Keenum and Selmon will be the ones making the next hire.
 

615dawg

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Agree except I think Lebby is fired a year from now. And unfortunately, Keenum and Selmon will be the ones making the next hire.
You are probably right. But if we aren't firing our unqualified DC because of a buyout, I figure we'll give Lebby a pass for 3-9 next year if we look competitive in a couple of games.
 
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Trojanbulldog19

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Leaving out some details there Burt. Keenum naming Arnett Permanent Coach, Arnett nuking the program, Firing Leachs staff, changing the offense to the wing T, boosters hiring staff, BP leading Arnett around by the hand on the sideline, Two years of zero recruits in the transfer portal, hiring a first time AD to hire a first time head coach to hiring a first time DC.

See it’s a series of blunders and insanely stupid moves that would destroy and devastate any program. it’s mismanagement so bad, it Almost looks intentional.
Goes back to Keenum making an incredibly dumb short sighted decision. I wonder if he wasn't playing chair of the cfp if he would have had time to pick an AD and then not feel rush or overwhelmed to not make a dumb quick decision with Arnett being tabbed permanent
 

Trojanbulldog19

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The timing of Leach's passing was awful. Cohen had just left so we did not have an AD. He had just hired Freeze and Freeze was poaching our recruits. Keenum panicked and named Arnett the permanent coach to save the recruiting class.

In hindsight, a proper coaching search would have likely landed an Air Raid disciple that could have leveraged Will Rogers. Arnett destroyed our program in one season. Lebby isn't the guy that can fix it, although I don't think you can fire him until after year 3 because of the schedule. We are truly looking at 0-8 again next year, which will be 20 consecutive SEC losses. The record is 23. The schedule flips in 2026 so it depends on the order of our schedule whether we will hit that or not. If we start with Alabama, South Carolina and LSU - we'll probably set a new record. If we get Kentucky, Vanderbilt or Auburn in the first three, maybe we won't.

The post-2026 hire will be the most important in Mississippi State history. Need Keenum and Selmon out of the picture by then.

Remember the Croom era? This is going to be worse:

State lost 9 consecutive SEC games from 2002-03, won 1, lost their next 9, won 2 in a row in 2004, then dropped 10 consecutive — the final 3 league games of 2004 and the first 7 in 2005. 3-28. We are at 0-12 right now and 0-20 is very probable.
I always thought the time and recruiting class was an extremely weak excuse. Making the right choice is often better than the quick fix. Most of that recruiting class didn't pan out or left any way so what good did it do.
 

patdog

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You are probably right. But if we aren't firing our unqualified DC because of a buyout, I figure we'll give Lebby a pass for 3-9 next year if we look competitive in a couple of games.
I think him keeping Hutzler makes it easier to fire him next year. But I think we're going to be bad enough next year we won't have any choice but to fire him.
 

Leeshouldveflanked

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Leaving out some details there Burt. Keenum naming Arnett Permanent Coach, Arnett nuking the program, Firing Leachs staff, changing the offense to the wing T, boosters hiring staff, BP leading Arnett around by the hand on the sideline, Two years of zero recruits in the transfer portal, hiring a first time AD to hire a first time head coach to hiring a first time DC.

See it’s a series of blunders and insanely stupid moves that would destroy and devastate any program. it’s mismanagement so bad, it Almost looks intentional.
Either intentional or incompetence .
 
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The Peeper

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You are probably right. But if we aren't firing our unqualified DC because of a buyout, I figure we'll give Lebby a pass for 3-9 next year if we look competitive in a couple of games.
3-9 next year and 2-10 this one is 5-19 total. You don't keep a coach that goes 5-19 in the portal era
 
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L4Dawg

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3-9 next year and 2-10 this one is 5-19 total. You don't keep a coach that goes 5-19 in the portal era
You very well may when you fired the last one after 1 year. A place like MSU can't get a rep for a quick trigger, and we already have that reputation to a degree.
 

L4Dawg

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The biggest mistake we have made in football was getting outside our identity with the last three, and maybe four, hires.
 
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PBRME

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Leaving out some details there Burt. Keenum naming Arnett Permanent Coach, Arnett nuking the program, Firing Leachs staff, changing the offense to the wing T, boosters hiring staff, BP leading Arnett around by the hand on the sideline, Two years of zero recruits in the transfer portal, hiring a first time AD to hire a first time head coach to hiring a first time DC.

See it’s a series of blunders and insanely stupid moves that would destroy and devastate any program. it’s mismanagement so bad, it Almost looks intentional.
I was behind the Arnett hire to keep the momentum of the season going. He lost me the day he fired the offensive staff. If he would’ve run the defense and took a hands off approach of the offense we would’ve gone bowling last year. We’d also be in much better shape now.
 

The Peeper

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You very well may when you fired the last one after 1 year. A place like MSU can't get a rep for a quick trigger, and we already have that reputation to a degree.
That one that was fired after 1 year went 5-7, the only thing missing was the "interim" title. So in a 3 year span you are 10-26, its time to clean the athletic department out and hold some people accountable no matter the reputation
 

STATEgrad04

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I think him keeping Hutzler makes it easier to fire him next year. But I think we're going to be bad enough next year we won't have any choice but to fire him.
See, I disagree with this. I think him keeping Hutzler allows Lebby to make him the sacrificial lamb next year (to show he means business***), thus buying him at least a 3rd year.
 

615dawg

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Its not going to happen though. Too many people love Keenum and think he's great. Keenum loves Selmon. Selmon doesn't want to admit Lebby was a mistake and Lebby doesn't want to fire his buddy.

Other than Keenum, none of them care about Mississippi State. We are a paycheck and a stepping stone.
 

L4Dawg

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That one that was fired after 1 year went 5-7, the only thing missing was the "interim" title. So in a 3 year span you are 10-26, its time to clean the athletic department out and hold some people accountable no matter the reputation
That looks kind of silly now doesn't it? Firing JoMo looks really silly now. And we have people wondering why we can't attract good coaches. Y'all are running everybody off now after ONE year. That's insane.
 

PBRME

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That looks kind of silly now doesn't it? Firing JoMo looks really silly now. And we have people wondering why we can't attract good coaches. Y'all are running everybody off now after ONE year. That's insane.
Firing JoMo wasn’t a mistake. You could see the direction he had the program going. Downhill. Either fire him then or fire him after the next season. He wasn’t making it further than that.
 
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L4Dawg

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Firing JoMo wasn’t a mistake. You could see the direction he had the program going. Downhill. Either fire him then or fire him after the next season. He wasn’t making it further than that.
And look where we are now! Much better!
 

L4Dawg

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Where do you think we’d be if we kept him?
I think better than where we are now. We fired him too quick. The guy had never had a losing season. We ain't a blue blood. We also probably wouldn't have gone down the niche offense hole we did either.
 

The Peeper

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That looks kind of silly now doesn't it? Firing JoMo looks really silly now. And we have people wondering why we can't attract good coaches. Y'all are running everybody off now after ONE year. That's insane.
Moorhead shouldn't be allowed to be a head coach anywhere. He is now 8-28 in 3 seasons at Akron (5th, 6th, and 8th place in conference) He was dumped here where he was 7-9 in conference, lost 2 bowl games to Iowa and Louisville, had a LB fight and knock the QB out of a bowl and did nothing to him, only 2 games over .500 overall, had 2 bad losses in 2018 to KY there and Dan Mullen at home and to K State at home in 2019.
 

L4Dawg

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Moorhead shouldn't be allowed to be a head coach anywhere. He is now 8-28 in 3 seasons at Akron (5th, 6th, and 8th place in conference) He was dumped here where he was 7-9 in conference, lost 2 bowl games to Iowa and Louisville, had a LB fight and knock the QB out of a bowl and did nothing to him, only 2 games over .500 overall, had 2 bad losses in 2018 to KY there and Dan Mullen at home and to K State at home in 2019.
I'd take either of those seasons right now.
 

85Bears

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I was behind the Arnett hire to keep the momentum of the season going. He lost me the day he fired the offensive staff. If he would’ve run the defense and took a hands off approach of the offense we would’ve gone bowling last year. We’d also be in much better shape now.
We flushed a ten win roster right down the toilet. We be real smart.
 
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Podgy

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You very well may when you fired the last one after 1 year. A place like MSU can't get a rep for a quick trigger, and we already have that reputation to a degree.
Is that really our rep? Seems like the rep is we recently hired incompetent coaches who don't win games.
 

greenbean.sixpack

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The difference between us and the mustard buzzards is we have the resources to pull out of the skid, USM did not/does not. Being the SEC we'll be able to get coaches and players, we just need to get the right person in place. Even a mediocre coach would have had us 5-7 in this year.

The two games that made me give up on Levee are the eggs we laid vs Ark and Misery. We should have beat ASU and I have no idea what happened vs Toledo, but being those were early in the season i gave him a pass.

By the time we fired Crooms apathy and attendance bottomed out, if we don't start out next season at 3-1, apathy will be worse than the Croom Error. From the 5th game on, the schedule is beyond brutal. Ark and Misery will be our only two chances for wins and its a slim chance.

We can get a coach, I'm sure Clay Helton or Barry Odom would have crawled on broken glass to Starkvegas. I'm not inferring either is a great coach, but they wouldn't be learning on the job and would know how to hire a staff. Either would have went 5-7 for us in 2024.
 

85Bears

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The difference between us and the mustard buzzards is we have the resources to pull out of the skid, USM did not/does not. Being the SEC we'll be able to get coaches and players, we just need to get the right person in place. Even a mediocre coach would have had us 5-7 in this year.

The two games that made me give up on Levee are the eggs we laid vs Ark and Misery. We should have beat ASU and I have no idea what happened vs Toledo, but being those were early in the season i gave him a pass.

By the time we fired Crooms apathy and attendance bottomed out, if we don't start out next season at 3-1, apathy will be worse than the Croom Error. From the 5th game on, the schedule is beyond brutal. Ark and Misery will be our only two chances for wins and its a slim chance.

We can get a coach, I'm sure Clay Helton or Barry Odom would have crawled on broken glass to Starkvegas. I'm not inferring either is a great coach, but they wouldn't be learning on the job and would know how to hire a staff. Either would have went 5-7 for us in 2024.
I don’t think we could get Odom, he’s going to get a lot of offers.
 

Wesson Bulldog

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USM was a good program through Bower and Fedora. Fedora leaves and they hire Ellis Johnson. Johnson goes 0-12 and USM hasn't been the same since.

Is the passing of CML is the event that forever changes our football program for the worse. Is the passing of CML our "Ellis Johnson" moment. So far in hindsight, it appears that way.

Thoughts?
A USM buddy of mine brought a sign to the games when Johnson was coach. It read something like 'You can't spell loser without E-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-ISS"
 

IBleedMaroonDawg

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Why are we bringing up this ******** again? Did something change from yesterday to today?
 

greenbean.sixpack

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That looks kind of silly now doesn't it? Firing JoMo looks really silly now. And we have people wondering why we can't attract good coaches. Y'all are running everybody off now after ONE year. That's insane.
Considering the money we can pay, we can get a good coach with credentials. When you make $5mil/year with a $15mil buyout, not many coaches, that we can get, are going to worry about only getting one or two years. Plus football coaches are overflowing with self confidence. I think coaches these days expect to only be at a program a couple of years, if not successful or uber successful.

We've only gotten "name coaches" in my memory (I'm also 60). Our most successful coach came to us as a young, but experienced and successful, OC. When we hired Leach, the rumor was that Sark (then at Bama IIRC) lobbied for our job.
 

85Bears

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Considering the money we can pay, we can get a good coach with credentials. When you make $5mil/year with a $15mil buyout, not many coaches, that we can get, are going to worry about only getting one or two years. Plus football coaches are overflowing with self confidence. I think coaches these days expect to only be at a program a couple of years, if not successful or uber successful.

We've only gotten "name coaches" in my memory (I'm also 60). Our most successful coach came to us as a young, but experienced and successful, OC. When we hired Leach, the rumor was that Sark (then at Bama IIRC) lobbied for our job.
Sark could win at Texas, he wouldn’t do well here.
 
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