Let's not forget Year 3 for Spurrier

[18IsTheMan]

I'm feeling as disenchanted as anyone is with our season thus far.

But it caused me to look back at Spurrier's tenure here and I recalled that disastrous Year 3. Sitting at 6-1 with a top 10 ranking and lowly Vanderbilt coming to town, all seemed peachy. Then we turned in one of the most dismal efforts of the Spurrier era, taking a 17-6 loss on the chin that spiraled into a 5-game losing streak and missing a bowl. From bowl eligible with 5 games left on the schedule to missing a bowl. That team finished 6-6 (3-5) and that seems to be about the ceiling for this current team.

 

[Deleted11512]

Yep. It's absolute insanity that some are holding Beamer to a higher standard than HBC. Beamer also didn't inherit a Blake Mitchell/Sidney Rice combo, or a stout defense.

 

[Lurker123]

Is it also absolute insanity to accord Beamer the same leeway as one of the greatest college football coaches of all time?

I think Spurrier earned a bit of that leeway.

I don't recall fans being happy with that melt down season. So why should we be happy if it happens again? Because of some comparison to Spurrier?

 

[18IsTheMan]

Yep. It's absolute insanity that some are holding Beamer to a higher standard than HBC. Beamer also didn't inherit a Blake Mitchell/Sidney Rice combo, or a stout defense.

Beamer's saving grace so far was also Spurrier's saving grace in his first few seasons. Beamer has picked up a couple morale-boosting wins each year. Like Spurrier beating UT and UF in Year 1 or Clemson in Year 2 or UGA in Year 3. We blew out UF and then put on a show in our bowl game in Beamer's Year 1. Beat UT and Clemson in Year 2. I guess the difference is that in Spurrier's Year 3, the losses seemed inexplicable. I mean, we all knew we were better than Vandy. It felt like we were losing in spite of our talent. This year, the losses don't seem inexplicable. It feels like we're losing because of our talent (or lack thereof). If Beamer can somehow get us to 6-6 and mix in a win over a notable opponent, I think fans will be calmed down a bit.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Is it also absolute insanity to accord Beamer the same leeway as one of the greatest college football coaches of all time?

I think Spurrier earned a bit of that leeway.

I don't recall fans being happy with that melt down season. So why should we be happy if it happens again? Because of some comparison to Spurrier?

That is a fair point. We honestly just felt downright lucky that Spurrier would even condescend to be our head coach. We'd taking ruthless beating after beating from Spurrier in the 90s. Now he was coming here to coach us? No way in heck we were going to put SOS on the hot seat.

 

[Deleted11512]

Is it also absolute insanity to accord Beamer the same leeway as one of the greatest college football coaches of all time?

I think Spurrier earned a bit of that leeway.

I don't recall fans being happy with that melt down season. So why should we be happy if it happens again? Because of some comparison to Spurrier?

I expected more out of a HOF coach. I honestly didn't expect it to take 6 years for him to field a good team. Yeah, my expectations of Beamer are a little lower than one of the greatest coaches of all time.

Nobody was happy, no. And I was clamoring to fire HBC. Especially after that 2009 season where we went 7-5 and then got blasted by freaking UCONN in the pizza bowl. But, it's a good reminder. Given our history, and the fact that we play in the SEC, is that just the bar? Does it just take 6 years to a HC to find his footing here?

 

[Atlanta_Cock]

I expected more out of a HOF coach. I honestly didn't expect it to take 6 years for him to field a good team. Yeah, my expectations of Beamer are a little lower than one of the greatest coaches of all time.

Nobody was happy, no. And I was clamoring to fire HBC. Especially after that 2009 season where we went 7-5 and then got blasted by freaking UCONN in the pizza bowl. But, it's a good reminder. Given our history, and the fact that we play in the SEC, is that just the bar? Does it just take 6 years to a HC to find his footing here?

Here's the difference. Everyone knew Spurrier was capable. I think everyone also knew he wasn't working as hard as he used to, but Spurrier at 80% was still better than anyone else we'd had at 100%. Plus, Spurrier would call out couches and take the blame when we lost. He gave you the feeling he was going to make it work. His recruiting generally improved each year, and everyone was confident he'd get it rolling. And he did.

Beamer hasn't earned anything, and by most accounts he hasn't learned much. Our team this year seems no different than year one. Maybe worse. There's no record of prior success that affords Beamer any leeway. He seems unable to make changes in game and flat footed in the portal.

I'm all for family and such, but give me a coach who will stomp you and demand his assistants perform. We don't have that right now. Places like Oregon, Bama and Clemp do.

 

[Deleted11512]

Here's the difference. Everyone knew Spurrier was capable. I think everyone also knew he wasn't working as hard as he used to, but Spurrier at 80% was still better than anyone else we'd had at 100%. Plus, Spurrier would call out couches and take the blame when we lost. He gave you the feeling he was going to make it work. His recruiting generally improved each year, and everyone was confident he'd get it rolling. And he did.

Beamer hasn't earned anything, and by most accounts he hasn't learned much. Our team this year seems no different than year one. Maybe worse. There's no record of prior success that affords Beamer any leeway. He seems unable to make changes in game and flat footed in the portal.

I'm all for family and such, but give me a coach who will stomp you and demand his assistants perform. We don't have that right now. Places like Oregon, Bama and Clemp do.

The fact is we don't know what Beamer is capable of, and it'll take longer than 2.5 years to find out. You might not like that, but you have to deal with it....or just go be a Dawg.

 

[18IsTheMan]

The fact is we don't know what Beamer is capable of, and it'll take longer than 2.5 years to find out. You might not like that, but you have to deal with it....or just go be a Dawg.

It's not much the record for me as how we look. It's year 3 and outside of Rattler and XL, we seem to have diddly on this team for talent. Everything else on offense sucks. The D is lousy.

 

[Deleted11512]

It's not much the record for me as how we look. It's year 3 and outside of Rattler and XL, we seem to have diddly on this team for talent. Everything else on offense sucks. The D is lousy.

Fair point. If we're comparing to HBC you could say the same about his third team. QB play was atrocious (Mitchell, Smelly, Beecher), we had Boyd at RB and KMac at WR, Cook at TE...that's it. OL was terrible. D was decent, then Ark ran for 1/2 a mile on us, and UF dropped half a hunnerd on us. And HBC probably inherited a better situation than either Muschamp or Beamer, and Muschamp has more wins in his first 3 and Beamer has a chance to tie him.

 

[will110]

Here's the difference. Everyone knew Spurrier was capable. I think everyone also knew he wasn't working as hard as he used to, but Spurrier at 80% was still better than anyone else we'd had at 100%. Plus, Spurrier would call out couches and take the blame when we lost. He gave you the feeling he was going to make it work. His recruiting generally improved each year, and everyone was confident he'd get it rolling. And he did.

Beamer hasn't earned anything, and by most accounts he hasn't learned much. Our team this year seems no different than year one. Maybe worse. There's no record of prior success that affords Beamer any leeway. He seems unable to make changes in game and flat footed in the portal.

I'm all for family and such, but give me a coach who will stomp you and demand his assistants perform. We don't have that right now. Places like Oregon, Bama and Clemp do.

2023 hasn't been great...that said, I don't think it's as strong an indictment on Beamer as you're alleging. I'll try to go down each of your points and show why I disagree and why I don't think things are as bad as you think they are.

Recruiting: Beamer clearly is recruiting a little better each year. (2021 - 72nd / 2022 - 28th / 2023 - 16th)

2021: South Carolina finished 7-6, averaging 22 points/game and 337 yards/game.
2023: South Carolina through 5 games is 2-3, averaging 27 points/game and 399 yards/game.
Things aren't great this year, but we've also played 3 ranked opponents while the 2021 team played 3 ranked opponents all year.

Unable to make changes in game? I disagree there as well. Carolina made adjustments against Clemson last year and won that game after being down two scores. Has he made game management mistakes? Of course. The pick six last Saturday before the half is a great example. However you can't say he's not being aggressive in all his decisions, doing what he thinks is best to actually win games. Muschamp, for example. always seemed like he coached not to get blown out. He was rarely aggressive.

No prior success? That's what happens when you hire a first-time head coach. If you're going to go that route, you've got to give him time to learn on the job. Firing him after year three doesn't seem like a great way to build a program.

"Stomping" assistants? Just because you don't see Beamer cursing his assistants out on the sideline like Trent Dilfer doesn't mean he's not demanding excellence. Just because he's not firing assistants mid-season doesn't mean he's not demanding excellence. You compare Beamer's program to Oregon, Alabama, and Clemson, three of college football's premier programs over the last decade. Not a great comparison, in my opinion.

 

[sdjwm001]

I been on here forever, but almost never post. But....

I'm struggling to understand why a lot of fans feel like this year is already a failure...? Just a few facts off the top of my head:

1) Carolina's schedule was rated the absolute toughest schedule in college football, and so far that has been the way its played out.
2) Carolina's 3 losses are all to ranked teams, one to the overall #1 . We are a decent team, not one that should be ranked at this point, and we lost to better teams.
3) Wells being out since Georgia hasn't helped anything. I'm not saying we'd beat Georgia with him in there, but I sure would like to have watched Rattler in the 2nd half with his best weapon.

Beamer will win games he's supposed to win, lose the games he's supposed to lose, and maybe pull one or two out of the hat like last years UT\Clem games. Unlike Muschamp who would pull off the upset on occasion, but also lay a turd on the field (ala App St). If you think the 2022 team was better than this one, which losses do you think 2022 would have won this year?

I'm unhappy with how dismal the lines look, how the D has played in general, and how we have no RB other than a pickup from Newberry (no offence, I love Mario, but this is an SEC team and shouldn't be worried about getting quality RBs). I feel sorry for Rattler, I feel like we wasted him and the momentum from last years close. But overall, considering the schedule, Juice's injury, and line play, I would almost say if this team can finish 7-5, to me it would be equal to last years 8-4. Just my .02.

 

[Sweetwatergolf]

Fair point. If we're comparing to HBC you could say the same about his third team. QB play was atrocious (Mitchell, Smelly, Beecher), we had Boyd at RB and KMac at WR, Cook at TE...that's it. OL was terrible. D was decent, then Ark ran for 1/2 a mile on us, and UF dropped half a hunnerd on us. And HBC probably inherited a better situation than either Muschamp or Beamer, and Muschamp has more wins in his first 3 and Beamer has a chance to tie him.

IMO haven't had a O line since Carlen and Morrison tenure....

 

[Lurker123]

The fact is we don't know what Beamer is capable of, and it'll take longer than 2.5 years to find out. You might not like that, but you have to deal with it....or just go be a Dawg.

We don't know what Beamer is capable of. And it will take longer than 2.5 years to find out.

I don't think people need to switch team affiliation to understand we can debate his progress along the way though. Right?

I mean, we're not seriously suggesting we wait till the end of next year to even begin discussing it, right?

 

[Deleted11512]

We don't know what Beamer is capable of. And it will take longer than 2.5 years to find out.

I don't think people need to switch team affiliation to understand we can debate his progress along the way though. Right?

I mean, we're not seriously suggesting we wait till the end of next year to even begin discussing it, right?

He's the one that said he's done after 2.5 seasons, not me. If that's all you're going to allow a new HC, then USC is probably not the play for you. Find some joy.

 

[Lurker123]

He's the one that said he's done after 2.5 seasons, not me. If that's all you're going to allow a new HC, then USC is probably not the play for you. Find some joy.

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see him say that.

 

[Deleted11512]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see him say that.

He started a whole thread about it..."Beamer has lost me". It even made Message Board Geniuses. lol

 

[Guy in the Back]

For me, the tell-tale of the direction is the fact that a lot of Beamer recruits are playing in key spots. That means that the kids he is bringing are better than than what he inherited.

 

[Uscg1984]

I guess the difference is that in Spurrier's Year 3, the losses seemed inexplicable.

I don't know, I feel like our O-line play seems inexplicable. I'm not saying I expected them to be good, but do we really have the worst talent along the OL among all FBS schools? I don't think the bottom half of the Sunbelt or C-USA would give up 9 sacks to UNC. Are we really saying we could swap out our OL for Old Dominion's or Louisiana Monroe's and get an upgrade? I don't think so. Something's not adding up.

 

[Lurker123]

He started a whole thread about it..."Beamer has lost me". It even made Message Board Geniuses. lol

Touche.

I guess I was thinking him being done with Beamer wasn't the same as Beamer being done in 2.5 years. So i was reading it wrong.

 

[KingWard]

Yep. It's absolute insanity that some are holding Beamer to a higher standard than HBC. Beamer also didn't inherit a Blake Mitchell/Sidney Rice combo, or a stout defense.

Spurrier brought a war chest of credibility to Columbia, enough to not be categorized any way at all with the likes of Beamer.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Fair point. If we're comparing to HBC you could say the same about his third team. QB play was atrocious (Mitchell, Smelly, Beecher), we had Boyd at RB and KMac at WR, Cook at TE...that's it. OL was terrible. D was decent, then Ark ran for 1/2 a mile on us, and UF dropped half a hunnerd on us. And HBC probably inherited a better situation than either Muschamp or Beamer, and Muschamp has more wins in his first 3 and Beamer has a chance to tie him.

Also had Mike Davis at RB who ran for 4.5 yards/carry. That was a pretty solid backfield with him and Boyd. Lecorn was also solid at WR and we also had Moe Brown at WR and Saunders at TE. Overall just more pieces than this team on which you can really identify two players. At the end of the day, all the matters is the record.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I don't know, I feel like our O-line play seems inexplicable.

Can't argue with that.

 

[Deleted11512]

Spurrier brought a war chest of credibility to Columbia, enough to not be categorized any way at all with the likes of Beamer.

So did Dave Odom.

 

[KingWard]

So did Dave Odom.

No comparison.

 

[18IsTheMan]

No comparison.

Not even remotely comparable.

 

[Deleted11512]

No comparison.

I know. Just messing with you.

Doesn’t matter in the end. The same things people are freaking out about with Beamer we were going through with HBC. The notion that we might not make a bowl game in year three is all of a sudden unacceptable. It’s all of a sudden unacceptable to make bad hires. HBCs first staff was horrendous. He hired some of the worst DCs we’ve had in decades.

 

[Cocky99]

I don’t care what happened in year 3 of Spurrier in the mid 2000s. We are in 2023 and getting embarrassed by UNC and TN not even looking able to complete. We didn’t replace any playmakers who graduated or transferred out from last season to this one, is the problem. It’s a new time, with new rules and it looks like we are failing.
I’m not fine with no OL or legit RBs or WRs from a 3 year HC. I’m not saying fire him now. But if we are about the same after next season then I think USC should part ways with him. I really like Beamer and want him to be the guy. But we’ll see

 

[Deleted11512]

I don’t care what happened in year 3 of Spurrier in the mid 2000s. We are in 2023 and getting embarrassed by UNC and TN not even looking able to complete. We didn’t replace any playmakers who graduated or transferred out from last season to this one, is the problem. It’s a new time, with new rules and it looks like we are failing.
I’m not fine with no OL or legit RBs or WRs from a 3 year HC. I’m not saying fire him now. But if we are about the same after next season then I think USC should part ways with him. I really like Beamer and want him to be the guy. But we’ll see

Fair enough...I don't think anyone is happy with OL, RB, or WR. You just want to see signs of addressing it.

OL - The additions in this year's class and what we have committed for next year is insane. We're still working Seaton as well. Not sure how likely that is, but we're in it. Not sure if Nichols will come back, but he can, and probably should. Cason Henry missed the entire offseason, came back in fall camp and was dominating and took the starting RT spot, then got hurt on the first drive of UNC. He'll be back. There will be plenty of options for OL next year.

WR - This is one where we've apparently missed on some evals or something. X, Juice, Brown, Lewis should all be gone. That leaves you with Blake, Doty, Harbor, Russell, and Mangrum in terms of returning WRs with at least 1 reception so far. That doesn't look too good. I think Mazeo Bennett will be a good one for us in the 2024 class. Also have a commit from a 3* kid out of FL. We are working to flip a 4* kid from UT that's from Aiken. Sounds like we have a good shot at that one. Grabbing a couple of 4*s in this class would be big. I would imagine they'll be portal shopping.

RB - Really like Mario. With more reps and carries I think he continues to improve. And showed breakaway ability with that 75 yard run. He and Braswell could be a nice combo. Fuller is coming in the 24 class, and he looks like a good player. Still working to land Hill. If we get Hill and Fuller coming in that will solidify the RB room.

I think he's done a good job of addressing areas of concern up to this point. Impossible to solve them all at once.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Fair enough...I don't think anyone is happy with OL, RB, or WR. You just want to see signs of addressing it.

OL - The additions in this year's class and what we have committed for next year is insane. We're still working Seaton as well. Not sure how likely that is, but we're in it. Not sure if Nichols will come back, but he can, and probably should. Cason Henry missed the entire offseason, came back in fall camp and was dominating and took the starting RT spot, then got hurt on the first drive of UNC. He'll be back. There will be plenty of options for OL next year.

WR - This is one where we've apparently missed on some evals or something. X, Juice, Brown, Lewis should all be gone. That leaves you with Blake, Doty, Harbor, Russell, and Mangrum in terms of returning WRs with at least 1 reception so far. That doesn't look too good. I think Mazeo Bennett will be a good one for us in the 2024 class. Also have a commit from a 3* kid out of FL. We are working to flip a 4* kid from UT that's from Aiken. Sounds like we have a good shot at that one. Grabbing a couple of 4*s in this class would be big. I would imagine they'll be portal shopping.

RB - Really like Mario. With more reps and carries I think he continues to improve. And showed breakaway ability with that 75 yard run. He and Braswell could be a nice combo. Fuller is coming in the 24 class, and he looks like a good player. Still working to land Hill. If we get Hill and Fuller coming in that will solidify the RB room.

I think he's done a good job of addressing areas of concern up to this point. Impossible to solve them all at once.

Keeping the existing OL commit group intact is of utmost importance. It could prove to be the most consequential recruiting group in a long time. It seems we have had OL problems here for as long as I can remember. It's just so vital to everything. The skill positions matter little when your OL is as bad as ours is. That said, we are probably looking at 2025 before we see the fruits of this group. Nevertheless, our future success or failure may rise and fall on this OL class.

Yeah, we've really whiffed on WR in this class somehow. Mazeo was a great pickup, but we were really counting on lading Keylen Adams as well and kind of went all-in there. I only see a couple uncommitted 4*, though both are projected as locks elsewhere. Flipping Staley from UT would be huge. I would say it's unlikely since he's been committed there since June, but who knows? I think it tells you where the staff is that we are trying to flip a recruit this late in the cycle. If we can't flip him we'll have to hit the portal hard as opposed to snagging some low 3* or 2* from this class.

Hard to say what's going on with Hill. He was long considered a lock to us. Dad wants him at Bama. UT is making a big push and he was on an OV in Knoxville for our game. ON3 still has him a strong lean to us. 247 has us as a slight lean over Bama. We really went hard after Braylen Russell but he went with his original commitment to Arkansas. So we're all in on Hill. If we miss there, we'll also have to hit the portal hard here. I also think Mario shows good promise and we have Braswell who is a talent. Don't know how Fuller will pan out.

 

[athenscock3]

If playing musical chairs with coaches was the answer, we'd be world beaters. Starting over with a new coach this early is not the answer. We lose the commits we've got lined up for next year and we are in deep voodoo. It will set us back indefinitely. Other programs can make a new hire and come out on top but it's dicey and I don't think we can do it.

 

[Lurker123]

If playing musical chairs with coaches was the answer, we'd be world beaters. Starting over with a new coach this early is not the answer. We lose the commits we've got lined up for next year and we are in deep voodoo. It will set us back indefinitely. Other programs can make a new hire and come out on top but it's dicey and I don't think we can do it.

I don't think anyone is thinking or suggesting Beamer is gone this year. And it would take a meltdown, a LARGE meltdown to see him leave after next year. So he's looking at 5 years.

So given how long Holtz, Spurrier, and Muschamp were given, I don't think we qualify as playing musical chairs with coaches.

 

[gamecock stock]

Been watching the Missouri-LSU game. Missouri let it get away. But, there's no doubt that Drinkwitz in his 4th season there, has Missouri playing well, having, thus far lost only one game. Mack Brown is in his 5th season at UNC and has them in the Top 15. It took Mark Stoops 6 years to have a Top 25 team at Kentucky. People have to give Beamer more time than 2+ years. Beamer replaced Will Muschamp, who was fired before the end of his 4th season at Florida. He was relieved of his duties before finishing his 5th season at South Carolina. Has there ever been a Head Football Coach fired at 2 different schools before the end of the season. There may be. But it escapes my knowledge. Muschamp is undoubtedly one of the worst, if not worst Head Football Coach we have ever had here. The program was in such a mess, that Tanner did not let his hire even finish the season. People criticize Spurrier's recruiting here at the end of his time at SC. But I, for one, would way more trust a blind-folded Steve Spurrier to recognize football talent than I would Will Muschamp wearing designer eyeglasses. But, that's me.

 

[athenscock3]

Fair enough...I don't think anyone is happy with OL, RB, or WR. You just want to see signs of addressing it.

OL - The additions in this year's class and what we have committed for next year is insane. We're still working Seaton as well. Not sure how likely that is, but we're in it. Not sure if Nichols will come back, but he can, and probably should. Cason Henry missed the entire offseason, came back in fall camp and was dominating and took the starting RT spot, then got hurt on the first drive of UNC. He'll be back. There will be plenty of options for OL next year.

WR - This is one where we've apparently missed on some evals or something. X, Juice, Brown, Lewis should all be gone. That leaves you with Blake, Doty, Harbor, Russell, and Mangrum in terms of returning WRs with at least 1 reception so far. That doesn't look too good. I think Mazeo Bennett will be a good one for us in the 2024 class. Also have a commit from a 3* kid out of FL. We are working to flip a 4* kid from UT that's from Aiken. Sounds like we have a good shot at that one. Grabbing a couple of 4*s in this class would be big. I would imagine they'll be portal shopping.

RB - Really like Mario. With more reps and carries I think he continues to improve. And showed breakaway ability with that 75 yard run. He and Braswell could be a nice combo. Fuller is coming in the 24 class, and he looks like a good player. Still working to land Hill. If we get Hill and Fuller coming in that will solidify the RB room.

I think he's done a good job of addressing areas of concern up to this point. Impossible to solve them all at once.

You left out dl, especially dt. That’s my area of concern. We had multiple misses and I see us coming up short on the dl/dt. That spells huge problems in SEC competition.

 

[Deleted11512]

Been watching the Missouri-LSU game. Missouri let it get away. But, there's no doubt that Drinkwitz in his 4th season there, has Missouri playing well, having, thus far lost only one game. Mack Brown is in his 5th season at UNC and has them in the Top 15. It took Mark Stoops 6 years to have a Top 25 team at Kentucky. People have to give Beamer more time than 2+ years. Beamer replaced Will Muschamp, who was fired before the end of his 4th season at Florida. He was relieved of his duties before finishing his 5th season at South Carolina. Has there ever been a Head Football Coach fired at 2 different schools before the end of the season. There may be. But it escapes my knowledge. Muschamp is undoubtedly one of the worst, if not worst Head Football Coach we have ever had here. The program was in such a mess, that Tanner did not let his hire even finish the season. People criticize Spurrier's recruiting here at the end of his time at SC. But I, for one, would way more trust a blind-folded Steve Spurrier to recognize football talent than I would Will Muschamp wearing designer eyeglasses. But, that's me.

 

[Deleted11512]

You left out dl, especially dt. That’s my area of concern. We had multiple misses and I see us coming up short on the dl/dt. That spells huge problems in SEC competition.

Me too. Robertson just got here in May. I’m excited to see what impact he makes.