It amazes me how so many people hate this possible hire. Yes he had a bad year last year. So what? Can you ungrateful people not be willing to give Mullen the benefit of the doubt? There is an obvious reason he wants this guy. Mullen hasn't screwed the pooch yet, I for one will give him the benefit of the doubt.
Martinez
- Thread starter Dawgfan61
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It amazes me how so many people hate this possible hire. Yes he had a bad year last year. So what? Can you ungrateful people not be willing to give Mullen the benefit of the doubt? There is an obvious reason he wants this guy. Mullen hasn't screwed the pooch yet, I for one will give him the benefit of the doubt.
Any time a coach gets fired at say a Georgia, it leads to question why we should hire him.
I personally don't if it would be a good hire or not, but the trend analysis says he has been heading down... which is not in the right direction.
I personally don't if it would be a good hire or not, but the trend analysis says he has been heading down... which is not in the right direction.
I think Martinez can do that. He has SEC experience, and he had 1 bad year at Georgia, and that was ranked 30th in the country in total defense, and I believe that is mostly because their offense led the SEC in turnovers. Georgia was 14th in total defense in 2007. Anyone who says that he is washed up or isn't who we are looking for is crazy. Georgia was 30th in total defense, and we were 63rd. If we could have had the 30th total defense in the country this year, we go 7 and 5 and we are playing in the Liberty Bowl again.
remember his was 30th with georgia's recruits....i promise you that doesnt equal 30th with a defense of state recruits.....i say it's an equal trade off between torbush and martinezmstatefan88 said:
Dawgfan61 said:
1. He had a "bad year" but he has been trending down since he has took over. This year is the tip of the iceberg. People- he was fired for a reason. If turnovers were the biggest reason for UGA's struggles, why is Bobo still their OC?
2. Mullen HIRED TORBUSH. That was NOT A GOOD HIRE. I like Mullen a lot. I really do. But not everything he touches turns to gold. For the sake of MSU football, be objective.
3. Why do people think that Martinez can run an SEC defense himself? Because he has been at Georgia? The guy is a FAILURE. If we hire him, he will FAIL HERE. He will not have the support of the fans from the get go. He needs to go somewhere else for his sake and ours.
4. Why do people think that Richt held him back by not letting him blitz more? That's ridiculous. That would be like a coach hiring Dan Mullen as his OC and making him run the WCO by force. If you hire Dan Mullen as your OC, you let him run the spread, and you know that when you hire Dan Mullen. If Richt meddled that much with the defense, it tells me that he didn't trust Martinez and had good reason not to. If we hire Martinez, he will not change his philosophy.
I think it's a downgrade. I do not believe that the MSU fanbase in general will support the hire of Martinez. With Torbush, it was at least wait and see.
DerHntr said:
That's why this board is here- because people like you and me who actually have a brain need a place to roam.
Now, the sheep may "support" the hire because it's MSU at least outwardly because they don't want to rock the boat or are afraid of being potentially called out, but deep down inside, they no that this is a bad hire. Just like deep down inside they knew that Croom was in over his head. They maybe didn't say it outwardly, or didn't say anything from fear of getting banned off of a MB, but they knew Croom was not the answer. Look at this years attendance.
And I'm actually basing my opinion on the people around me at the basketball game tonight. NOT ONE person said that this would be a good hire. NOT ONE. It ranged from- Why? to Hell no- to That would not be good.
When you have this many people saying stuff like that, you do not need to hire the guy. If Mullen did hire him, I would not be surprised if we're looking for ANOTHER DC this time of year again.
Other than ***** (i.e. disagree strongly) with Mullen's choices, what can fans/alumns, etc do about it? If no one other than Mullen thinks the guy can do the job, what can be done? Do we get Mullen to take a poll or emails from the fan base about who he should interview/offer/hire? I wasn't really impressed with the hiring of Mullen but so far, so good. I wondered about some of his staff hires/retentions, but it worked out ok this year. Not great, but ok. Martinez won't be the first fired coach re-hired somewhere nor the last.
Not flaming, just asking............
Not flaming, just asking............
fired at usc. i think spurrier suggested if another opening came up he should take it. that said he's worked out well for ole miss and well enough that fla was interested (offered job depending on who you choose to believe). so IMO just beging fired at uga isn't horrible. heck they sucked and somebody had to take the fall...richt wasn't going to fire himself after all. IMO at this point you give mullen the benefit of trust....now i will say if the process drags on and on (which frankly it is beginning to do) then you got to figure whoever gets hired, "somebody" (either the coach or msu) "settled". if matinez isn't hired before christmas, IN MY OPINION, there's a problem.
You have to remember that Mullen had to throw together a new staff just as all new coaches do. Given the time-frame he had to work with, I think he did a pretty good job. Torbush is a below average DC--not horrible. He certainly had his moments this year, but he is inconsistent and it's good to see that DM is quick to make needed changes.Todd4State said:
Martinez is not a total failure. He always has solid defensive teams, but was put at a huge disadvantage this year with Georgia consistently handing the ball back to the other team. It not only creates a short field, but it is a huge emotional kick in the balls. I don't think he is a great hire, but we could do worse. Martinez will benefit from being on the other side of Mullen's offense.
Someone also mentioned Martinez having Georgia talent and not being able to compete when given the keys to MSU talent. I watched a pretty good amount of UGA football this year and I'd rather have our defensive players for 2010. Historically, UGA has been the much faster and stronger team, but our D next year will be very talented with good experience. Our DC opening is a great opportunity for anyone looking to make a name for himself because it's going to be an under-rated, but stout group of players.
"Look at what Willie Martinez did with the lowly MSU talent in just his first year...".
I have full faith in Mullen for anything on the offensive side of the ball or special teams. As far as the defense goes, I am a little unsure. Torbush was a terrible hire and most of us new it from the start. Martinez, in MY opinion is another bad hire. Here is why......
State needs a defense like the JLD style. Where we have so many different looks and send so many different rushing packages that we keep on offense confused, a quarterback rattled from pressure, and keep the Offensive Coord guessing what we are going to do. This is not a Martinez defense.
Martinez runs a defense that requires significantly more talent than we have. He lines up 11 guys and counts on all of those guys being able to handle their position. He basically tells an offense to run or throw at him and he counts on his defense to stop him.
We don't and probably won't have talent to play that type of defense. In just about every play we have a breakdown in coverage at some point. If our defense is rushing different guys every play and providing a good bit of pressure, rushing the qb, it covers up a lot of our flaws or breakdowns in coverage.
I think everyone on here loved the Mullen hire because he was a young, aggressive, and inventive guy. Speaking for myself, I would like to see the same attitude on defense. Martinez does not bring that level of aggressiveness or inventiveness.
The guy got fired from Georgia for a reason, he didn't take the blame for someone else, it was him. I just don't understand us going after him.
State needs a defense like the JLD style. Where we have so many different looks and send so many different rushing packages that we keep on offense confused, a quarterback rattled from pressure, and keep the Offensive Coord guessing what we are going to do. This is not a Martinez defense.
Martinez runs a defense that requires significantly more talent than we have. He lines up 11 guys and counts on all of those guys being able to handle their position. He basically tells an offense to run or throw at him and he counts on his defense to stop him.
We don't and probably won't have talent to play that type of defense. In just about every play we have a breakdown in coverage at some point. If our defense is rushing different guys every play and providing a good bit of pressure, rushing the qb, it covers up a lot of our flaws or breakdowns in coverage.
I think everyone on here loved the Mullen hire because he was a young, aggressive, and inventive guy. Speaking for myself, I would like to see the same attitude on defense. Martinez does not bring that level of aggressiveness or inventiveness.
The guy got fired from Georgia for a reason, he didn't take the blame for someone else, it was him. I just don't understand us going after him.
We have always had to have a defense to disrupt and confuse the opposition to keep us in the game. We were seldom capable of scoring 21 or more points. I think Mullen wants a defense that will make teams string together consecutive plays...12, 15, 20 plays to have to score....and a defense that does not give up the big play. This year we were the Santa of the SEC on giving up the big play. A top 30 defense like Martinez has consistently produced would give him just that. Heck, I even heard many on this board say that we should have kept Cheese 'cause he at least had a top 30ish defense. This guy at UGA has done it every year he has been there.
What if we were to put a defense on the field that would "disrupt and confuse the opposition to keep us in the game" and we paired that with Mullen's offense?
I know that it comes from years of being a state fan that many cannot understand having a good offense and defense at the same time but what do you say we give it a shot.
If he was so great at Georgia, with a different caliber of athlete than he will have here, why is he looking for a job?
I don't understand this attitude, it is like saying we are good on offense so we don't need to worry about defense as much. ********, let's have a great offense and a brutal defense and see where that gets us. Not a great offense and a decent defense.
I know that it comes from years of being a state fan that many cannot understand having a good offense and defense at the same time but what do you say we give it a shot.
If he was so great at Georgia, with a different caliber of athlete than he will have here, why is he looking for a job?
I don't understand this attitude, it is like saying we are good on offense so we don't need to worry about defense as much. ********, let's have a great offense and a brutal defense and see where that gets us. Not a great offense and a decent defense.
Why does everyone think that a top 30 defense at Georgia means a top 30 defense at state. The caliber athlete he had to work with at Georgia is completely different than what he will have here.
In my opinion and obviously Georgia's, top 30 with the caliber athletes he had was unacceptable.
Not a damn thing we can do about it but at least we could hope for better than decent with this hire.
In my opinion and obviously Georgia's, top 30 with the caliber athletes he had was unacceptable.
Not a damn thing we can do about it but at least we could hope for better than decent with this hire.
I was there for a year, and I can promise you the UGA fans I've talked to recently think we should be very worried.
1. Over his 4-5 years as DC, his points given up per game got progressively worse. His first year was on-par with Van Gorder (UGA's former DC). Each year thereafter, his defense gave up 2-3 more points versus the prior year. This is a HORRIBLE trend over a period of time where recruiting should have fixed the problem.
2. Last year against GA Tech, his players could not tackle anyone. GA Tech overcame a two touchdown deficit to beat UGA. Watch the video of their DB's as they try to play bumper cars with GA Tech backs. It's ridiculous.
3. This year, GA Tech punted ZERO TIMES... Nada, Zilch... GA Tech would have beaten UGA for the second year in a row, if an All-ACC receiver did not drop a pass in his hands with one minute to go in the game. UGA NEVER STOPPED TECH THAT NIGHT.
4. UGA gets the cream of the crop in recruiting. I read about kids here in the state of Georgia who have offers from MSU, UK, Auburn, etc... they all say that if UGA gives them a scholly, they would commit on-the-spot. TALENT is not a problem at UGA. It is a challenge at MSU. Willie will have to do more with less talent at MSU.
5. Prior to UGA playing TN, the TN fans were booing their quarterback for pathetic play. The week UGA played them, said QB was the SEC Offensive Player of the Week. Ditto for South Carolina's QB. In fact, look at how many times average QB's are SEC Offensive Players of the Week when they play UGA. It's a BIG problem.
6. Remember LAST YEAR? UGA's National Championship Season???? ESPN's Gameday show in Athens, UGA ranked 2 or 3 and undefeated, Bama ranked 6 or 7 and undefeated.... End of First Half, Bama 31, UGA ZIP.... I was at the game. The defense was an absolute joke. The very few times UGA's defense stopped Bama on third-down, there was a personal foul penalty that gave Bama another first down.
If MSU hires Martinez, they will regret it BIG-TIME...
2. Last year against GA Tech, his players could not tackle anyone. GA Tech overcame a two touchdown deficit to beat UGA. Watch the video of their DB's as they try to play bumper cars with GA Tech backs. It's ridiculous.
3. This year, GA Tech punted ZERO TIMES... Nada, Zilch... GA Tech would have beaten UGA for the second year in a row, if an All-ACC receiver did not drop a pass in his hands with one minute to go in the game. UGA NEVER STOPPED TECH THAT NIGHT.
4. UGA gets the cream of the crop in recruiting. I read about kids here in the state of Georgia who have offers from MSU, UK, Auburn, etc... they all say that if UGA gives them a scholly, they would commit on-the-spot. TALENT is not a problem at UGA. It is a challenge at MSU. Willie will have to do more with less talent at MSU.
5. Prior to UGA playing TN, the TN fans were booing their quarterback for pathetic play. The week UGA played them, said QB was the SEC Offensive Player of the Week. Ditto for South Carolina's QB. In fact, look at how many times average QB's are SEC Offensive Players of the Week when they play UGA. It's a BIG problem.
6. Remember LAST YEAR? UGA's National Championship Season???? ESPN's Gameday show in Athens, UGA ranked 2 or 3 and undefeated, Bama ranked 6 or 7 and undefeated.... End of First Half, Bama 31, UGA ZIP.... I was at the game. The defense was an absolute joke. The very few times UGA's defense stopped Bama on third-down, there was a personal foul penalty that gave Bama another first down.
If MSU hires Martinez, they will regret it BIG-TIME...
<div class="messagebody"> Martinez' defenses outranked UGA's offense by far every year except 2008, and that year was close.
UGA's total offense rankings, total defense rankings, and record:
2005: offense #49, defense #18, record 10-3
2006: offense #90, defense #8, record 9-4
2007: offense #74, defense #18, record 11-2
2008: offense #21, defense #28, record 10-3
2009: offense #73, defense #30, record 7-5
Looks like Martinez deserves most of the CREDIT, not the blame, for UGA's going 47-17 over the last 5 years. Maybe the offensive coordinator is the one who should have been fired by Richt. </div>
UGA's total offense rankings, total defense rankings, and record:
2005: offense #49, defense #18, record 10-3
2006: offense #90, defense #8, record 9-4
2007: offense #74, defense #18, record 11-2
2008: offense #21, defense #28, record 10-3
2009: offense #73, defense #30, record 7-5
Looks like Martinez deserves most of the CREDIT, not the blame, for UGA's going 47-17 over the last 5 years. Maybe the offensive coordinator is the one who should have been fired by Richt. </div>
patdog said:
but that is quite honestly one of the dumbest, wooliest, statements I have seen on here and it is just not right.
Martinez did not draw the short straw and have to take the fall. If it makes you feel better then fine but don't expect everyone to believe that.
It was not that he sucked. He lost his job because Georgia lost 2 junior offensive players to the first round of the draft. It is hard to replace those two especially as juniors. This was just one of those years that they were not going to contend. The fans are hungry and Richt was even getting on the hot seat. He had to make a change and this was it. I am not sold on Martinez but he would be an improvement.</p>
S
sack07
Guest
Several are saying Martinez to Florida as a position coach. That's where he wants to be, reportedly.
and tell him that the fans wouldn't support the hire and give a rational answer why we wouldn't support it- including his defense declining every year he was at Georgia. And also be respectful and don't act like you think you are Bill Bellicheck in the stands. Also mention that you only want what's best for MSU, and appreciate him beating the crap out of Ole Miss.
Yes- imagine Mullen's offense with an innovative, creative pressure defense. THAT would awesome. And it would give us a chance to have late 90's success in the SEC.
I remember back when we fired Bill Clay and Bruce Arians, I wanted us to get Joe Lee Dunn and a guy from BYU named Norm Chow. If we had those two as our coordinators with Jackie coaching us, imagine what would have happened. We might have gone undefeated during at least the regular season in 1999 with that duo, and with Chow, we would have actually developed QB's and had a passing attack to go with our running attack and had balance and a good offense. Instead, we hire Lynn Amedee, who was boring as hell and while we still won the SEC West in 1998, and 10 games in 1999 with Sparky Woods, I still feel like we underachieved somewhat because of our offense.
I sincerely hope Dan does not make the same mistake that Jackie did in 1995.
I remember back when we fired Bill Clay and Bruce Arians, I wanted us to get Joe Lee Dunn and a guy from BYU named Norm Chow. If we had those two as our coordinators with Jackie coaching us, imagine what would have happened. We might have gone undefeated during at least the regular season in 1999 with that duo, and with Chow, we would have actually developed QB's and had a passing attack to go with our running attack and had balance and a good offense. Instead, we hire Lynn Amedee, who was boring as hell and while we still won the SEC West in 1998, and 10 games in 1999 with Sparky Woods, I still feel like we underachieved somewhat because of our offense.
I sincerely hope Dan does not make the same mistake that Jackie did in 1995.
