Men's BB. A few thoughts......

[thekimmer]

First of all, enough already with the childish insults. Posting crap like 'Howland's Clowns' every other game is silly and counter-productive.

With that said, while it isn't time to panic just yet, it is time to be concerned. I am concerned to be seeing in this team the same hallmarks noted throughout CBHs tenure and that is a clear tendency for inconsistency and underachievement. That cannot happen this season and him continue as our head BB coach. We do still have plenty of time to avoid that but this is not a good year in the SEC to be dropping noncon games you are a 10 point favorite at home and still searching for your identity as conference play approaches. With women's BB dormant and the men's program still trying to wake up from a long post-stans hibernation, I think the hump is just begging to spring back to life. Unfortunately, Ben's teams have this knack for dropping a deuce between the sheets just when it looks like they might be ready to get the hump rocking again.

I don't care how good the SEC is this year. The minimum acceptable outcome for this team HAS to be an NCAAT bid and I really don't think it should be close but I think that notion may be already out the window. Go DOGS!

 

[ronpolk]

First of all, enough already with the childish insults. Posting crap like 'Howland's Clowns' every other game is silly and counter-productive.

With that said, while it isn't time to panic just yet, it is time to be concerned. I am concerned to be seeing in this team the same hallmarks noted throughout CBHs tenure and that is a clear tendency for inconsistency and underachievement. That cannot happen this season and him continue as our head BB coach. We do still have plenty of time to avoid that but this is not a good year in the SEC to be dropping noncon games you are a 10 point favorite at home and still searching for your identity as conference play approaches. With women's BB dormant and the men's program still trying to wake up from a long post-stans hibernation, I think the hump is just begging to spring back to life. Unfortunately, Ben's teams have this knack for dropping a deuce between the sheets just when it looks like they might be ready to get the hump rocking again.

I don't care how good the SEC is this year. The minimum acceptable outcome for this team HAS to be an NCAAT bid and I really don't think it should be close but I think that notion may be already out the window. Go DOGS!

There is only 1 idiot that continues to say stuff like howland’s clowns. But you’re right about everything else. I’m happy Howland brought the program back from the dead but I’ll also be glad when he decides to step away.

 

[Seinfeld]

I’ve watched basketball long enough to know that I shouldn’t get too emotional about a couple early season losses. However, every one of these Ls puts the team farther behind the 8 ball when it comes to what will be needed in conference play, and you’re exactly right about minimum expectations.

This team HAS to make the dance, and if it doesn’t, it’s time to move on. A single one and done NCAA appearance over a 7 year period is not cutting it

 

[ZombieKissinger]

And please not an 8 or a 9 seed. 5, 6, 11, or 12 would be great

 

[Hanmudog]

It is incredible how the names may change but the results are always the same since Howland got here. The same maddening stuff over and over and over.


The only teams we seem to ever beat are the teams similar to us, athletic teams that don't really run an offense. As soon as we run up against a well coached team that can shoot the 3 we lose every damn time because we never ever adjust or adapt to what they are doing and without fail let some guy go off for a career high.

 

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Saturday's game was a disappointing loss. It was a chance to get a home win over a power 5 opponent and we squandered the opportunity. I agree that Howland needs to make the tournament this year, or we need to consider other alternatives.

However, the Hump isn't ready to spring back to life. No one cares and that's the reason we will never be good. There were 2500 fans at the game Saturday, and you won't convince me that 6000 more fans being in the arena wouldn't have made a difference especially when the game is tied with 30 seconds left.

No incoming coaches view MSU as a great basketball program, and it amazing that we get some of the caliber players we do. We have Howland to thank for that. Why would top tier talented guys want to come to a school where they are an after thought rather than go to blue chip school where they are treated like heroes.

Fans showing up is the first step in building a better basketball program.

 

[8dog]

We have already dug a huge hole for ourselves in the OOC. Our likely second and last shot at a meaningful win against Col St. Thankfully the SEC seems stout.

As for Howland, its maddening be didnt show one different defensive look yesterday after they destroyed us in half court man. Minnesota meanwhile ran man, 2-3 zone, 1-2-2 full court press and 2-2-1 token press.

Everything should run through Molinar. Run him off 4 screens each trip. That will open up opportunities for everyone else.

 

[Hanmudog]

Saturday's game was a disappointing loss. It was a chance to get a home win over a power 5 opponent and we squandered the opportunity. I agree that Howland needs to make the tournament this year, or we need to consider other alternatives.

However, the Hump isn't ready to spring back to life. No one cares and that's the reason we will never be good. There were 2500 fans at the game Saturday, and you won't convince me that 6000 more fans being in the arena wouldn't have made a difference especially when the game is tied with 30 seconds left.

No incoming coaches view MSU as a great basketball program, and it amazing that we get some of the caliber players we do. We have Howland to thank for that. Why would top tier talented guys want to come to a school where they are an after thought rather than go to blue chip school where they are treated like heroes.

Fans showing up is the first step in building a better basketball program.

I was there yesterday and the fans that were there got pretty loud at the end when we made our run and Minnesota hit the game winner so I am not so sure 6000 more fans would have mattered.

The cold hard truth though is that fans will only show up when we consistently win and stop having explosive diarrhea every single time the fans do actually come to the games.

 

[Smoked Toag]

We have already dug a huge hole for ourselves in the OOC. Our likely second and last shot at a meaningful win against Col St. Thankfully the SEC seems stout.

As for Howland, its maddening be didnt show one different defensive look yesterday after they destroyed us in half court man. Minnesota meanwhile ran man, 2-3 zone, 1-2-2 full court press and 2-2-1 token press.

Everything should run through Molinar. Run him off 4 screens each trip. That will open up opportunities for everyone else.

Who was the last MSU coach that satisfied all your demands? Serious question. It's not Leach or Lemonis, you railed on them all year too. Just curious what it takes.

 

[thekimmer]

Saturday's game was a disappointing loss. It was a chance to get a home win over a power 5 opponent and we squandered the opportunity. I agree that Howland needs to make the tournament this year, or we need to consider other alternatives.

However, the Hump isn't ready to spring back to life. No one cares and that's the reason we will never be good. There were 2500 fans at the game Saturday, and you won't convince me that 6000 more fans being in the arena wouldn't have made a difference especially when the game is tied with 30 seconds left.

No incoming coaches view MSU as a great basketball program, and it amazing that we get some of the caliber players we do. We have Howland to thank for that. Why would top tier talented guys want to come to a school where they are an after thought rather than go to blue chip school where they are treated like heroes.

Fans showing up is the first step in building a better basketball program.

I disagree. State has demonstrated that they will support a winner. The fans didn't come first for Schaefer. They didn't come first for Volleyball either but then managed to pack out NG for a sport we couldn't get a hundred fans for before. The point is not that a bigger crowd would have won that game on sunday but if we could just put some consistent success together the fans WILL come back. What kills us is winning a couple then just when you think we are on track we drop one to an underdog.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I've been disappointed for a couple of years now as I expected it to come together sooner. This year, given coaching tenure and my perception about the talent we have, will be when I'll turn the corner on it being time to make a coaching change, if we don't make any forward progress. I like Howland and think that he's gotten us out of the disfunction that was the late Stans then Ray era, but we really need to see some progress. Even if he loses every game by 30 points from here on out, I'll not call him names.

 

[She Mate Me]

I've been disappointed for a couple of years now as I expected it to come together sooner. This year, given coaching tenure and my perception about the talent we have, will be when I'll turn the corner on it being time to make a coaching change, if we don't make any forward progress. I like Howland and think that he's gotten us out of the disfunction that was the late Stans then Ray era, but we really need to see some progress. Even if he loses every game by 30 points from here on out, I'll not call him names.

Thanks for saying how I feel better than I could.

 

[8dog]

Can you show me where I railed on Lemonis first?

 

[maroonmania]

I was there yesterday and the fans that were there got pretty loud at the end when we made our run and Minnesota hit the game winner so I am not so sure 6000 more fans would have mattered.

The cold hard truth though is that fans will only show up when we consistently win and stop having explosive diarrhea every single time the fans do actually come to the games.

The real disappointment was we seemed to come out unready to play and got punched in the mouth going down 16-2 right out of the gate. Then had to expend a tremendous amount of effort to get the game down to a few points at halftime. And THEN, proceeded to do the exact same thing in the 2nd half. If we had pulled the game out yesterday it would have been a near miracle. You shouldn't need a near miracle to win a game at home when you are a double digit favorite. I say its time to be very worried. We have played 2 pretty good teams so far and looked bad and lost against both. This game will hurt a lot come March for seeding purposes assuming we do well enough in conference play to even get into the NCAA tournament.

 

[maroonmania]

We have already dug a huge hole for ourselves in the OOC. Our likely second and last shot at a meaningful win against Col St. Thankfully the SEC seems stout.

As for Howland, its maddening be didnt show one different defensive look yesterday after they destroyed us in half court man. Minnesota meanwhile ran man, 2-3 zone, 1-2-2 full court press and 2-2-1 token press.

Everything should run through Molinar. Run him off 4 screens each trip. That will open up opportunities for everyone else.

May be maddening but absolutely not surprising. Half court man is all we ever play and all we ever will play under Howland.

Apparently trying to prepare everyone for the NBA.***

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

There has been progress under Howland. But it seems to be so painfully 17n slow. Yesterday felt like a big set back. Really frustrating.

We need to make the tourney this year somehow and we need to win a game, otherwise it's probably time to move on.

To what? I don't know.

 

[MSUDC11]

It just feels like the same Howland team we get every year. Win a few games to build excitement, get right on the cusp of having the fans buy back in, lose a big game and piss everybody off. Wash, rinse, repeat.

I'm sure we will beat some decent to good teams, but not anyone THAT good or any win THAT memorable. But I can almost guarantee you that we are going to lose to Ole Miss at least once and then lose another game or two to the worst teams in the league. I've asked this question for years and still don't know if there's a good answer for it: What is the most memorable win of the Howland era? I can name several really frustrating losses but I have a difficult time finding wins that stand out in the last 6+ seasons.

To this point Howland has been our Andy Kennedy. We win a lot of games without accomplishing very much in the big picture.

 

[She Mate Me]

I've asked this question for years and still don't know if there's a good answer for it: What is the most memorable win of the Howland era? I can name several really frustrating losses but I have a difficult time finding wins that stand out in the last 6+ seasons.

This made me think so I went to the Massey Ratings site to try to identify memorable wins. This is my opinion...

The best win of the Howland era was in 2019 (NCAA year) over an eventual Final Four and 30 win Auburn team. We also beat 28 and 30 win Cincinnati and Wofford teams that year.

I think those wins aren't memorable because they aren't traditional powers (Cincy is a bit I guess), and it wasn't obvious how good those wins were at the time.

The other memorable ones for me were beating Baylor and Louisville on the road in the NIT.

 

[thekimmer]

Yeah, coming back from 14 down TWICE was disappointing because...

The real disappointment was we seemed to come out unready to play and got punched in the mouth going down 16-2 right out of the gate. Then had to expend a tremendous amount of effort to get the game down to a few points at halftime. And THEN, proceeded to do the exact same thing in the 2nd half. If we had pulled the game out yesterday it would have been a near miracle. You shouldn't need a near miracle to win a game at home when you are a double digit favorite. I say its time to be very worried. We have played 2 pretty good teams so far and looked bad and lost against both. This game will hurt a lot come March for seeding purposes assuming we do well enough in conference play to even get into the NCAA tournament.

Well, first of all because we ultimately lost. Secondly is because it indicated to me that at least one team was off the charts with inconsistent play. Given that we were 10 point favorites at home I have to think we were the guilty party.

 

[PirateDawg]

First of all, enough already with the childish insults. Posting crap like 'Howland's Clowns' every other game is silly and counter-productive.

With that said, while it isn't time to panic just yet, it is time to be concerned. I am concerned to be seeing in this team the same hallmarks noted throughout CBHs tenure and that is a clear tendency for inconsistency and underachievement. That cannot happen this season and him continue as our head BB coach. We do still have plenty of time to avoid that but this is not a good year in the SEC to be dropping noncon games you are a 10 point favorite at home and still searching for your identity as conference play approaches. With women's BB dormant and the men's program still trying to wake up from a long post-stans hibernation, I think the hump is just begging to spring back to life. Unfortunately, Ben's teams have this knack for dropping a deuce between the sheets just when it looks like they might be ready to get the hump rocking again.

I don't care how good the SEC is this year. The minimum acceptable outcome for this team HAS to be an NCAAT bid and I really don't think it should be close but I think that notion may be already out the window. Go DOGS!

Not falling for it this year. Every year with Howland we are singing the same old tune about dropping important games earlly and he'll find the answers in time to get us in the tournament. It ain't gonna happen again this year. He went up against a 1st year coach from Minnesota and lost at home. If I were him I'd be mighty embarrassed. I'm tired of games where our players look lost out there and scramble to get back into games against good opponents. Where's the game planning early in games? Are we even scouting teams to know what to expect? I'm not seeing that on the floor. The only time we make runs is when we play street ball. Ball movement is slow and clumsy.

 

[msstate7]

We have already dug a huge hole for ourselves in the OOC. Our likely second and last shot at a meaningful win against Col St. Thankfully the SEC seems stout.

As for Howland, its maddening be didnt show one different defensive look yesterday after they destroyed us in half court man. Minnesota meanwhile ran man, 2-3 zone, 1-2-2 full court press and 2-2-1 token press.

Everything should run through Molinar. Run him off 4 screens each trip. That will open up opportunities for everyone else.

we're 49th in NET rankings per ncaa website. Wouldn't call it a huge hole.

Minnesota #36
Colorado st #27
Louisville #53

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basket...l-net-rankings

 

[8dog]

Its early but the biggest problem will be not being able to show an OOC win in a worthwhile quad.

 

[BonzoGoesToCollege]

It is incredible how the names may change but the results are always the same since Howland got here. The same maddening stuff over and over and over.

Agreed. Under Howland, these 3 things are a given:

1) inability to defend the 3
2) awful offensive half court sets
3) the inflexibility to change defensive schemes

After we tied it up at 76 and Minnesota called timeout, they came out in a 1-4 set and we just stayed in straight man. You knew what was gonna happen.

I was really excited when we signed him, but I'm ready to move on. 14 million dollars (or whatever his salary is for 7 years) has gotten us 0 NCAA tournament wins. It's time to move on. Look what Oats is doing at Bama and they don't give 2 ***** about basketball.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Agree. I'd likely be more frustrated if I hadn't been numbed by the Williams to Stans to Ray trajectory. I mean I was Midnight Madness or bust back in the day...

 

[MSUDC11]

This made me think so I went to the Massey Ratings site to try to identify memorable wins. This is my opinion...

The best win of the Howland era was in 2019 (NCAA year) over an eventual Final Four and 30 win Auburn team. We also beat 28 and 30 win Cincinnati and Wofford teams that year.

I think those wins aren't memorable because they aren't traditional powers (Cincy is a bit I guess), and it wasn't obvious how good those wins were at the time.

The other memorable ones for me were beating Baylor and Louisville on the road in the NIT.

The fact that two NIT wins are in the discussion is kinda my point. I do agree that those three wins from 2019 were probably Howland's best, but them being early in the season probably hurt their legacy, and far more memorable from that season are the big home loss to Ole Miss, the overtime loss to LSU where Howland, in his own words, forgot to play Robert Woodard, and obviously the infamous Liberty loss.

By Year 3 of Howland we had moved out the the dog days of the Rick Ray era and have been a consistent NIT or NCAA contender every year since. But these last 3-4 years have been a whole lot of two steps forward, two steps backward.

 

[Junction John]

Look what Oats is doing at Bama and they don't give 2 ***** about basketball.

I hope Cohen feels this gut punch like the rest of us do.

 

[She Mate Me]

The fact that two NIT wins are in the discussion is kinda my point. I do agree that those three wins from 2019 were probably Howland's best, but them being early in the season probably hurt their legacy, and far more memorable from that season are the big home loss to Ole Miss, the overtime loss to LSU where Howland, in his own words, forgot to play Robert Woodard, and obviously the infamous Liberty loss.

By Year 3 of Howland we had moved out the the dog days of the Rick Ray era and have been a consistent NIT or NCAA contender every year since. But these last 3-4 years have been a whole lot of two steps forward, two steps backward.

To be clear, I agree with you. I was just trying to answer the question.

 

[braddog30]

I was there yesterday myself. It was good to see them rally back to tie it up. But, to no shock to me, ended up with the loss. It’s just what we have done for too long to expect anything else. I’ll believe this team makes it to the dance when they are actually there. And actually winning a game there? Same thing! I do love State...but over 50 years of following them sort of brings out the doubts. Hoping for the best...expecting the (less than best). It is amazing though, since our Baseball Natty... the loses don’t hurt nearly as bad!