Misleading statement about support for trans athletes

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blacklistedbully

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Apr 9, 2010
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I'll probably get admonished for this, but I think this is just too important a topic, and it IS sports related, so here goes:

In another thread a poster stated that 70% of our citizens oppose birth-gender males playing in women's sports. It's intent was to make it seem as if this is not a "left-right" issue because at 70% it equals both sides largely against.

But here is the breakdown from a USA Today poll:

"Support for transgender athletes' ability to choose to play for a team matching their gender identity fell among the three major political groups, with Republicans solidly opposed (93%) and independents largely opposed (67%). Democrats were divided on the issue, with 48% in disfavor and 47% in support."

Democrat voters are almost split down the middle, while a mere 7% of Republican voters are not opposed. 47% vs 7%! Don't try to tell me this is not a "left-right" issue. This crap would not have any legs if not for liberal, Democrat support. And look at which side of the aisle is fighting any attempt to fight this madness! It's pretty damned clear!

To another statement regarding women not being more at risk of injury or death from a male because male-vs-male injury also happens, you are glossing over the fact that women do not have the same reaction-time as men, and have also not had a competitive lifetime of facing the sudden increases in speed, strength, etc. This makes women far more vulnerable than men. Asinine to suggest otherwise.

Consider the ability to react to a fastball. Lots of players can hit a 90 mph fastball. Increase that by just 10% and the ability to react in time goes WAY down. What if the difference is 15%? How many ball players could duck a 90 mph fastball coming at their head? How many could be expected to at 104? How about how many who have never in their lives faced a fastball at greater than say, 80 mph?

Much success in sports is about a minimum # of repetitions & development of muscle-memory. Want to be good at recognizing and hitting pitches? Face 3,500 or more of each type before thinking you have a decent chance at being good enough to compete. How many reps do you think a typical male faces in their playing time vs females? Do you think identifying as a female magically wipes out the massive advantage gained?

There is just no way to spin this as being remotely fair to women. There is no excuse or justification. This is so obvious I am shocked there are even 7% of Republican voters who don't get it. 47% of Democrats? Give me a break!

The major reason the 70% opposed is true is because 93% of conservatives and 67% of independents overcome the 47% of Democrats who do not oppose.

BTW, though I do not believe gender is a choice, I don't consider it my business to tell a trans person they are FOS. I have no problem with the trans community believing whatever they want about themselves as long as it does not negatively & unfairly impact others, even if & when only potentially. My take for female-identifying males in sports is, if you want to consider yourself a women, go right ahead...it is your right. But if & when you do, your ability to participate in sports must be a sacrifice you make...a choice you arrive at when you decide to go the "gender-identity" route. Either that or compete only in men's events or those that are open to both sexes until there is a trans category.

Most things we really want in life require sacrifice and/or compromise. If you are a man who "identifies" as a female, you should consider your ability to compete against other women in sports a sacrifice you must make.

End of rant. I apologize in advance to the board for breaking a rule. I just could not let this pass without comment. Too important.
 
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Captain Ron

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Aug 22, 2012
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If it were “fair” then you would see trans women also competing and winning in top level male events. So far, all I have seen is trans women going from the back of the pack in men’s sports to winning and even setting records in women’s sports.

The point is there is certainly something inherent (not sure that is the best word) in being born a male that generally gives one an advantage physically over a female. Obviously taking hormones isnt driving trans men to the top of men’s sports and blockers don‘t appear to be keeping trans women from dominating either. .
 

mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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Is it too important to not comment? Like is this really what you think needs to be top of mind and the main focus for us as a society and nation?
Its definitely something we need to navigate for sure, but is it really too important to not comment on?...not sure there. It simply isn't nearly as top of kind for most. A select group hyperfocuses on it.

To comment on your 'findings', yeah there are some passionate people that support what you and I don't support. They view things differently. That isn't a surprise. And it also shouldn't be a surprise to find out that very few conservatives support transfemale athletes competing in biologically female leagues.
Thats like the most obvious safe assumption of the month, so it's hardly surprising.


Since this topic is being discussed yet again, I'll add to my comments from the earlier thread where someone claimed(and others defended) that a female will get killed from playing sports with a transfemale. This was in the thread that focused on a volleyball player.
- girls volleyball teams use boys/men to compete against in practice all the time.
- women's basketball teams use men to compete against in practice all the time.
- the most popular form of adult voleyball is co-ed 6, both indoor and sand. Co-ed 4s on sand is hugely popular too. Women play and hold their own all the time in co-ed. I played co-ed indoor pickup 2 nights ago and got worked by a couple of ex-college d1 women. And there were a bunch of ex-college guys that played naia and d3 playing too.

It is laughable to use the injury claim for team sports, as if that is the real primary concern.




And since it bears repeating...I don't support transfemale athletes playing in biologically female specific leagues. No need to go that route in response to my comments.
 

Boom Boom

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Sep 29, 2022
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I'll probably get admonished for this, but I think this is just too important a topic, and it IS sports related, so here goes:

In another thread a poster stated that 70% of our citizens oppose birth-gender males playing in women's sports. It's intent was to make it seem as if this is not a "left-right" issue because at 70% it equals both sides largely against.

But here is the breakdown from a USA Today poll:

"Support for transgender athletes' ability to choose to play for a team matching their gender identity fell among the three major political groups, with Republicans solidly opposed (93%) and independents largely opposed (67%). Democrats were divided on the issue, with 48% in disfavor and 47% in support."

Democrat voters are almost split down the middle, while a mere 7% of Republican voters are not opposed. 47% vs 7%! Don't try to tell me this is not a "left-right" issue. This crap would not have any legs if not for liberal, Democrat support. And look at which side of the aisle is fighting any attempt to fight this madness! It's pretty damned clear!

To another statement regarding women not being more at risk of injury or death from a male because male-vs-male injury also happens, you are glossing over the fact that women do not have the same reaction-time as men, and have also not had a competitive lifetime of facing the sudden increases in speed, strength, etc. This makes women far more vulnerable than men. Asinine to suggest otherwise.

Consider the ability to react to a fastball. Lots of players can hit a 90 mph fastball. Increase that by just 10% and the ability to react in time goes WAY down. What if the difference is 15%? How many ball players could duck a 90 mph fastball coming at their head? How many could be expected to at 104? How about how many who have never in their lives faced a fastball at greater than say, 80 mph?

Much success in sports is about a minimum # of repetitions & development of muscle-memory. Want to be good at recognizing and hitting pitches? Face 3,500 or more of each type before thinking you have a decent chance at being good enough to compete. How many reps do you think a typical male faces in their playing time vs females? Do you think identifying as a female magically wipes out the massive advantage gained?

There is just no way to spin this as being remotely fair to women. There is no excuse or justification. This is so obvious I am shocked there are even 7% of Republican voters who don't get it. 47% of Democrats? Give me a break!

The major reason the 70% opposed is true is because 93% of conservatives and 67% of independents overcome the 47% of Democrats who do not oppose.

BTW, though I do not believe gender is a choice, I don't consider it my business to tell a trans person they are FOS. I have no problem with the trans community believing whatever they want about themselves as long as it does not negatively & unfairly impact others, even if & when only potentially. My take for female-identifying males in sports is, if you want to consider yourself a women, go right ahead...it is your right. But if & when you do, your ability to participate in sports must be a sacrifice you make...a choice you arrive at when you decide to go the "gender-identity" route. Either that or compete only in men's events or those that are open to both sexes until there is a trans category.

Most things we really want in life require sacrifice and/or compromise. If you are a man who "identifies" as a female, you should consider your ability to compete against other women in sports a sacrifice you must make.

End of rant. I apologize in advance to the board for breaking a rule. I just could not let this pass without comment. Too important.
Since when do you care about "fair"?
 

blacklistedbully

Well-known member
Apr 9, 2010
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Is it too important to not comment? Like is this really what you think needs to be top of mind and the main focus for us as a society and nation?
Its definitely something we need to navigate for sure, but is it really too important to not comment on?...not sure there. It simply isn't nearly as top of kind for most. A select group hyperfocuses on it.

To comment on your 'findings', yeah there are some passionate people that support what you and I don't support. They view things differently. That isn't a surprise. And it also shouldn't be a surprise to find out that very few conservatives support transfemale athletes competing in biologically female leagues.
Thats like the most obvious safe assumption of the month, so it's hardly surprising.


Since this topic is being discussed yet again, I'll add to my comments from the earlier thread where someone claimed(and others defended) that a female will get killed from playing sports with a transfemale. This was in the thread that focused on a volleyball player.
- girls volleyball teams use boys/men to compete against in practice all the time.
- women's basketball teams use men to compete against in practice all the time.
- the most popular form of adult voleyball is co-ed 6, both indoor and sand. Co-ed 4s on sand is hugely popular too. Women play and hold their own all the time in co-ed. I played co-ed indoor pickup 2 nights ago and got worked by a couple of ex-college d1 women. And there were a bunch of ex-college guys that played naia and d3 playing too.

It is laughable to use the injury claim for team sports, as if that is the real primary concern.




And since it bears repeating...I don't support transfemale athletes playing in biologically female specific leagues. No need to go that route in response to my comments.
Wholly different scenario when you are talking about elite athletes in most cases. I believe the differences at some point become much more significant. Beyond that, trying to limit it to volleyball is silly, because acceptance in any sport gives rise to acceptance in all sports. I think you know where this path leads.
 

HailStout

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Jan 4, 2020
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That was me that posted it. If I read your breakdown correctly, half of democratic voters are against it. So………to claim the democrats are all for this is ludicrous.

I will never understand why we as Americans are so damn determined to hate each other right now

also. Go get laid. You need it
 
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RocketDawg

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Oct 21, 2011
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Is it too important to not comment? Like is this really what you think needs to be top of mind and the main focus for us as a society and nation?
Its definitely something we need to navigate for sure, but is it really too important to not comment on?...not sure there. It simply isn't nearly as top of kind for most. A select group hyperfocuses on it.

To comment on your 'findings', yeah there are some passionate people that support what you and I don't support. They view things differently. That isn't a surprise. And it also shouldn't be a surprise to find out that very few conservatives support transfemale athletes competing in biologically female leagues.
Thats like the most obvious safe assumption of the month, so it's hardly surprising.


Since this topic is being discussed yet again, I'll add to my comments from the earlier thread where someone claimed(and others defended) that a female will get killed from playing sports with a transfemale. This was in the thread that focused on a volleyball player.
- girls volleyball teams use boys/men to compete against in practice all the time.
- women's basketball teams use men to compete against in practice all the time.
- the most popular form of adult voleyball is co-ed 6, both indoor and sand. Co-ed 4s on sand is hugely popular too. Women play and hold their own all the time in co-ed. I played co-ed indoor pickup 2 nights ago and got worked by a couple of ex-college d1 women. And there were a bunch of ex-college guys that played naia and d3 playing too.


It is laughable to use the injury claim for team sports, as if that is the real primary concern.




And since it bears repeating...I don't support transfemale athletes playing in biologically female specific leagues. No need to go that route in response to my comments.

True. I don't think anybody is saying that all males could beat, and be a danger to, all women. Women athletes could almost certainly beat the run of the mill male just about all the time. But if it's a mediocre male athlete who decided to "become" a female and compete against women athletes, then he has a very good chance of coming out on top. There's a reason men professional golfers play from longer tees than professional women do. They're stronger. But put the LPGA player up agains the vast majority of us casual golfers and we'd lose every time. But in general, males have a large advantage over females.

There are a few sports that gender might not make any difference, such as billiards (pool). But even there, sexes are still separated at the higher competitive levels. Maybe bowling might be another - women's scores at the higher levels are pretty much the same as men, even if they use a lighter ball.
 

mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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Wholly different scenario when you are talking about elite athletes in most cases. I believe the differences at some point become much more significant. Beyond that, trying to limit it to volleyball is silly, because acceptance in any sport gives rise to acceptance in all sports. I think you know where this path leads.
I am not trying to limit it only to volleyball. I was responding to the baseless claim made in the thread which was about a transgirl playing volleyball.
But no, playing coed isnt a wholly different scenario when talking about elite athletes. Guys that have 40" vert and came from Brazil and DR or defected from Cuba are playing with and against women in co-ed leagues all the time here.

You can apply it to basketball- nobody is going to be killed on the court by a transfemale athlete.
You can apply it to swimming- nobody is going to be killed in the pool by a transfemale athlete.
You can apply it to track and field- nobody is going to be killed on the track...or in the field by a transfemale athlete.
You can apply it to gymnastics- nobody is going to be killed on the mat or beam or whatever the 17 else by a transfemale athlete.

Soccer, cross country, golf, etc etc etc- same thing- nobody is going to literally die due to a transfemale participating.
The safety concern is either a lazy fear based excuse or a gross misunderstanding of how death works.

And I am perfectly fine with some sports allowing it too- like equestrian. skeet/trap shooting, and archery.




Based on how I read your post, you seem to think I am in favor of transwomen competing in leagues for biologically female athletes. Again, I am not.
It just isnt some huge pressing concern that is top of mind for most people and the safety concern isnt nearly as big as some try to make it.
 

dawgstudent

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Apr 15, 2003
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End of rant. I apologize in advance to the board for breaking a rule. I just could not let this pass without comment. Too important.

It sure seems to be a topic of great interest, though. And aren't the vast majority of posts here someone's opinion? If we censor posts based on opinion what's gonna be left?
What I bolded is what I was referencing. Your opinion, my opinion, etc isn't that important. We can talk about it but to feel like you had to let your opinion be known on the issue because it's "too important" is laughable. And that's my opinion on your opinion. No one is going to come reference "blacklistedbully"'s opinion on transgender issues from this here message board. Carry on.
 

DesotoCountyDawg

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It takes away opportunities for actual women and those trans men have a competitive advantage in sports like track and field and swimming where they are shattering records that no biological woman will ever break.

It’s about fairness.

It’s about devaluing what women have worked so hard for.
 

DogNSuds

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It takes away opportunities for actual women and those trans men have a competitive advantage in sports like track and field and swimming where they are shattering records that no biological woman will ever break.

It’s about fairness.

It’s about devaluing what women have worked so hard for.
💯
 

Boom Boom

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Sep 29, 2022
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Wholly different scenario when you are talking about elite athletes in most cases. I believe the differences at some point become much more significant. Beyond that, trying to limit it to volleyball is silly, because acceptance in any sport gives rise to acceptance in all sports. I think you know where this path leads.
It begs for a common sense compromise, but the culture warriors hate those.

Let ametuer, minor trans athletes compete with the gender they identify with. Evidence highly suggests that such inclusion is best for their mental well being and vastly reduces suicides that are rampant in this group. That should come before culture politics and high school trophies. Let the females unfairly harmed by this get a life lesson in...life. it aint fair. Adults and pros are different, it harms competition to let born males compete with females.
 

thatsbaseball

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May 29, 2007
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It takes away opportunities for actual women and those trans men have a competitive advantage in sports like track and field and swimming where they are shattering records that no biological woman will ever break.

It’s about fairness.

It’s about devaluing what women have worked so hard for.
This is all that really needs to be said.
 

thatsbaseball

Well-known member
May 29, 2007
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It begs for a common sense compromise, but the culture warriors hate those.

Let ametuer, minor trans athletes compete with the gender they identify with. Evidence highly suggests that such inclusion is best for their mental well being and vastly reduces suicides that are rampant in this group. That should come before culture politics and high school trophies. Let the females unfairly harmed by this get a life lesson in...life. it aint fair. Adults and pros are different, it harms competition to let born males compete with females.
Literally the most warped post I've ever seen on this board . Sacrifice women's sports to "save" mentally ill men. Absolutely absurd.
 

karlchilders.sixpack

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Jun 5, 2008
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That was me that posted it. If I read your breakdown correctly, half of democratic voters are against it. So………to claim the democrats are all for this is ludicrous.

I will never understand why we as Americans are so damn determined to hate each other right now

also. Go get laid. You need it
Seems to me we are all being pitted against one another, intentionally. There is an agenda.
 

DesotoCountyDawg

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2005
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It begs for a common sense compromise, but the culture warriors hate those.

Let ametuer, minor trans athletes compete with the gender they identify with. Evidence highly suggests that such inclusion is best for their mental well being and vastly reduces suicides that are rampant in this group. That should come before culture politics and high school trophies. Let the females unfairly harmed by this get a life lesson in...life. it aint fair. Adults and pros are different, it harms competition to let born males compete with females.
Or maybe get them the mental health care that they need. Theres a reason for high suicide rates in that community and it’s not all about inclusion.

And just for clarity sake my nephew who I think of as almost a son is non binary.
 

blacklistedbully

Well-known member
Apr 9, 2010
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That was me that posted it. If I read your breakdown correctly, half of democratic voters are against it. So………to claim the democrats are all for this is ludicrous.

I will never understand why we as Americans are so damn determined to hate each other right now

also. Go get laid. You need it
How about you show me where I said democrats are all for this? This is the problem with straw-man arguments...they twist words to fit an agenda that really doesn't fit.
 

blacklistedbully

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Apr 9, 2010
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I am not trying to limit it only to volleyball. I was responding to the baseless claim made in the thread which was about a transgirl playing volleyball.
But no, playing coed isnt a wholly different scenario when talking about elite athletes. Guys that have 40" vert and came from Brazil and DR or defected from Cuba are playing with and against women in co-ed leagues all the time here.

You can apply it to basketball- nobody is going to be killed on the court by a transfemale athlete.
You can apply it to swimming- nobody is going to be killed in the pool by a transfemale athlete.
You can apply it to track and field- nobody is going to be killed on the track...or in the field by a transfemale athlete.
You can apply it to gymnastics- nobody is going to be killed on the mat or beam or whatever the 17 else by a transfemale athlete.

Soccer, cross country, golf, etc etc etc- same thing- nobody is going to literally die due to a transfemale participating.
The safety concern is either a lazy fear based excuse or a gross misunderstanding of how death works.

And I am perfectly fine with some sports allowing it too- like equestrian. skeet/trap shooting, and archery.




Based on how I read your post, you seem to think I am in favor of transwomen competing in leagues for biologically female athletes. Again, I am not.
It just isnt some huge pressing concern that is top of mind for most people and the safety concern isnt nearly as big as some try to make it.
Did not say you were in favor. But in regard to the co-ed leagues, in those the women have a choice. And I am not talking only about injury-potential, but just plain fairness. BTW, one of the more noteworthy accounts of a female being injured badly by a trans male was in VB. From what I have read she sustained a severe concussions, has lost some eyesight, is losing a scholarship opp, etc.
 
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johnson86-1

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Aug 22, 2012
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I am not trying to limit it only to volleyball. I was responding to the baseless claim made in the thread which was about a transgirl playing volleyball.
But no, playing coed isnt a wholly different scenario when talking about elite athletes. Guys that have 40" vert and came from Brazil and DR or defected from Cuba are playing with and against women in co-ed leagues all the time here.

You can apply it to basketball- nobody is going to be killed on the court by a transfemale athlete.
You can apply it to swimming- nobody is going to be killed in the pool by a transfemale athlete.
You can apply it to track and field- nobody is going to be killed on the track...or in the field by a transfemale athlete.
You can apply it to gymnastics- nobody is going to be killed on the mat or beam or whatever the 17 else by a transfemale athlete.

Soccer, cross country, golf, etc etc etc- same thing- nobody is going to literally die due to a transfemale participating.
The safety concern is either a lazy fear based excuse or a gross misunderstanding of how death works.

And I am perfectly fine with some sports allowing it too- like equestrian. skeet/trap shooting, and archery.




Based on how I read your post, you seem to think I am in favor of transwomen competing in leagues for biologically female athletes. Again, I am not.
It just isnt some huge pressing concern that is top of mind for most people and the safety concern isnt nearly as big as some try to make it.
Just because you aren’t likely to get killed in basketball doesn’t make it safe. At the high school level, we occasionally played with the girls and definitely had to hold back and be careful. We had a forward that was about 220 lbs and fast and most of the girls on the high school team would have been at risk of serious injury if they had tried to take a charge against him.
 
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Rupert Jenkins

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Nov 29, 2017
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Listen...I think the best way to solve the problem is just eliminate mens and women's sports. Like just have basketball. Not women's. If they can't make the men's team too bad for them. Sane across the board. That way we wouldn't have to hear the WNBA complain about equal pay. All the lefties and Muslims would be ecstatic about how fair it was
 

MrKotter

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Aug 22, 2012
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It begs for a common sense compromise, but the culture warriors hate those.

Let ametuer, minor trans athletes compete with the gender they identify with. Evidence highly suggests that such inclusion is best for their mental well being and vastly reduces suicides that are rampant in this group. That should come before culture politics and high school trophies. Let the females unfairly harmed by this get a life lesson in...life. it aint fair. Adults and pros are different, it harms competition to let born males compete with females.
Identifying as an opposite gender is, and has always been, a mental disorder. Instead of catering to and promoting it these people should be urged to seek help.
 

Boom Boom

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Sep 29, 2022
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Or maybe get them the mental health care that they need. Theres a reason for high suicide rates in that community and it’s not all about inclusion.

And just for clarity sake my nephew who I think of as almost a son is non binary.
Including them in sports and getting them mental care are mutually exclusive? Newsflash, the mental experts you are saying to get them to for help are saying to include them in sports!
 

HailStout

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Jan 4, 2020
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How about you show me where I said democrats are all for this? This is the problem with straw-man arguments...they twist words to fit an agenda that really doesn't fit.
I haven’t told you guys. I finally got my PS5 a few months ago. It is awesome. I have logged over 70 hours on Elden ring and am only 33% through it. Cannot recommend it highly enough. My next game is going to be god of war or the new Spider-Man. Anybody got recommendations?
 
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paindonthurt

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Jun 27, 2009
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Is it too important to not comment? Like is this really what you think needs to be top of mind and the main focus for us as a society and nation?
Its definitely something we need to navigate for sure, but is it really too important to not comment on?...not sure there. It simply isn't nearly as top of kind for most. A select group hyperfocuses on it.

To comment on your 'findings', yeah there are some passionate people that support what you and I don't support. They view things differently. That isn't a surprise. And it also shouldn't be a surprise to find out that very few conservatives support transfemale athletes competing in biologically female leagues.
Thats like the most obvious safe assumption of the month, so it's hardly surprising.


Since this topic is being discussed yet again, I'll add to my comments from the earlier thread where someone claimed(and others defended) that a female will get killed from playing sports with a transfemale. This was in the thread that focused on a volleyball player.
- girls volleyball teams use boys/men to compete against in practice all the time.
- women's basketball teams use men to compete against in practice all the time.
- the most popular form of adult voleyball is co-ed 6, both indoor and sand. Co-ed 4s on sand is hugely popular too. Women play and hold their own all the time in co-ed. I played co-ed indoor pickup 2 nights ago and got worked by a couple of ex-college d1 women. And there were a bunch of ex-college guys that played naia and d3 playing too.

It is laughable to use the injury claim for team sports, as if that is the real primary concern.




And since it bears repeating...I don't support transfemale athletes playing in biologically female specific leagues. No need to go that route in response to my comments.
It’s important enough that lefties who disagree with taking women’s rights away should speak up.

But y’all hate women.
 
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paindonthurt

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2009
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That was me that posted it. If I read your breakdown correctly, half of democratic voters are against it. So………to claim the democrats are all for this is ludicrous.

I will never understand why we as Americans are so damn determined to hate each other right now

also. Go get laid. You need it
I don’t hate lefties.

Just don’t understand why more lefties aren’t speaking out against it publicly. It’s disgusting and it’s terrible for real women.
 
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paindonthurt

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2009
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It begs for a common sense compromise, but the culture warriors hate those.

Let ametuer, minor trans athletes compete with the gender they identify with. Evidence highly suggests that such inclusion is best for their mental well being and vastly reduces suicides that are rampant in this group. That should come before culture politics and high school trophies. Let the females unfairly harmed by this get a life lesson in...life. it aint fair. Adults and pros are different, it harms competition to let born males compete with females.
🤦🏼‍♂️
 

mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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It’s important enough that lefties who disagree with taking women’s rights away should speak up.

But y’all hate women.

This thread was closed for hours. Why is it back open?...and for this comment?


You wouldnt include me in the 'yall' comment if you had any sort of reading comprehension.
 

mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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Did PDH somehow hack the thread locking process? Lord help us all if so.
 
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