MLB HOF shows it’s hypocrisy.
- Thread starter PBRME
- Start date
It would be better to just pick a metric like JAWS or WAR or something and just put everyone above the line in the Hall. Right now it's just a popularity contest judged by people who don't represent MLB fans very well.
And that was never more evident than the time that voter from St. Louis refused to vote for Chipper Jones because he supported a wall on the southern border.
The first ballot stuff is a load of BS too. Writers won’t vote for a for sure hall of famer if he isn’t considered a “first ballot” hall of famer but then will vote for him the next year.
Which is stupid
What does it have to do with his playing career? He's worthy to be in the Hall of Fame on merit. His political opinions are irrelevant. I'd say the same if he was an outspoken communist.
What does it have to do with his playing career? He's worthy to be in the Hall of Fame on merit. His political opinions are irrelevant. I'd say the same if he was an outspoken communist.
I'm not so sure. He certainly doesn't do himself any favors by being belligerent, nor does the wide-spread suspicion that the bloody sock was a fraud. All of that aside, below are his closest stat comps per Baseball Reference. Smoltz is in due to being great in the post-season and re-inventing himself. Verlander will also get in, and possibly eventually Greinke. The rest are on the outside looking in.
- Zack Greinke (940.9)
- Kevin Brown (920.2)
- Bob Welch (900.8)
- Justin Verlander (898.2)
- Tim Hudson (890.4)
- Orel Hershiser (889.7)
- Freddie Fitzsimmons (883.7)
- Milt Pappas (880.1)
- Mark Buehrle (879.7)
- John Smoltz (876.3) *
Except that the HOF (none of them) are based ONLY on being good at the sport. They all require you to do more than that. And in the case of steroids, wife killers, and others, they have refused entry. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. This isn't new.
Edit to add... personally, I think Schillings 'stealing' $100m in govt money is what hurts him more than his mouth while trying to recreate his victimhood...
Edit to add... personally, I think Schillings 'stealing' $100m in govt money is what hurts him more than his mouth while trying to recreate his victimhood...
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Except they’re letting steroid users in the hall while leaving out others based on personal feelings. They can’t leave people out of the hall just for being an *******. Ty Cobb was one of the biggest ******** to play the game, and I don’t think there’s any question of his worthiness.
Go look at WAR for pitchers.
Schilling is 26th all time. Every pitcher above him is in the Hall except Clemens.
There are only 5 pitchers from his era with better WAR (Clemens, Maddux, Big Unit, Pedro & Mussina).
He won 3 World Series and played in a 4th.
He's not in because some beta journalists don't like him or his opinions.
Yet another example of why journalists shouldn't be in charge of anything.
Schilling is 26th all time. Every pitcher above him is in the Hall except Clemens.
There are only 5 pitchers from his era with better WAR (Clemens, Maddux, Big Unit, Pedro & Mussina).
He won 3 World Series and played in a 4th.
He's not in because some beta journalists don't like him or his opinions.
Yet another example of why journalists shouldn't be in charge of anything.
Actually much of Ty Cobb's reputation was fabricated by a journalist. <insert shocked face>
It's revenge of the nerds. These beta males couldn't make a junior varsity team but they get to lord it over the jocks in the hall of fame. What idiocy.
It'd be like if we let Schilling and A-Rod edit the New York Times. Actually, that might improve it.
It's revenge of the nerds. These beta males couldn't make a junior varsity team but they get to lord it over the jocks in the hall of fame. What idiocy.
It'd be like if we let Schilling and A-Rod edit the New York Times. Actually, that might improve it.
He was only 20 votes short, then decided to go on a tirade and told writers not to vote for him because he would let the Veteran's Committee be the one to put him in the HOF and it looks like a lot of those writers took him at his word.
I don't think it's a left or a right thing, but I do think it could very well be an 'outspoken politically' thing. I'm looking at the list of HOF inductees over the past 20 years and there's nobody on this list that jumps out at me to where I could tell their political leanings just based on their name, but I can with Curt Schilling. Honestly, I know more about Curt Schilling's Nazi memorabilia, political endorsements, and financial failures than I do the first 10 years of his MLB career.
To be clear, I wanna say on record that I think the Baseball HOF has been a sham for a long time largely due to the arbitrary purity test players have to pass.
I'm also gonna say this: Pete Rose should be in.
Go take that up with the voters in 1936 who elected Cobb... I thought we were talking about the people being voted in/out now.
What steroid users (that weren't just a name in an article that suspected them) are in the HOF? The ones that haven't been put in are the ones that there is almost ZERO doubt on... our Raffy included..
What steroid users (that weren't just a name in an article that suspected them) are in the HOF? The ones that haven't been put in are the ones that there is almost ZERO doubt on... our Raffy included..
Mike Piazza, Ivan Rodriguez, Jeff Bagwell, and David Ortiz are 4 that come to mind. Ortiz tested positive. The other 3 were suspected just like Bonds, McGwire, and Clemens. 3 got in and 3 left out with the same amount of speculation.
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I *think* it's something to do with career correlation, so Schilling's number would be 1000.0. I know there's some seamheads on here who can definitely tell you for certain.
So uh… what does the HOF actually do? Other then document the history & commemorate it.
Players elected to it that are alive get benefits?
Asking because I’m one of those fans where college sports only matters because you are actually playing for something guy here
Players elected to it that are alive get benefits?
Asking because I’m one of those fans where college sports only matters because you are actually playing for something guy here
Pete Rose, Bonds, Sosa. They all contributed to the growth of MLB and if you think there aren't something guy aren't using now you're naive It probably is not something like steroids but all of them are looking for something extra.
I still think Brady is using human sacrifices or some nefarious blood rituals**
I still think Brady is using human sacrifices or some nefarious blood rituals**
The Hall of Fame ineligibility was added after Pete Rose received his lifetime ban, specifically to keep him from getting voted in.
Before his ban, it was just an informal agreement. Banned players were technically eligible to get into the Hall of Fame before 1991.
Seems you just identified the line. 'some speculation and a test that included 10-15% false positives' is HOF worthy versus the Bonds/McGwire/Clemens group where smoke isn't even the right word with speculation/trainers admitting/arrests of trainers, etc... So, there you go.
Edit to add. You are really showing your hatred toward Ortiz. Almost no one says "he tested positive". The one test you are referencing is the 2003 'anonymous' test where the MLBPA and MLB all agreed that if the test had more than 5% false positives, it wouldn't be considered a real test. That one had 'at least 10 out of 104'... Not 10 positives out of 104... it had 10 FALSE positives out of 104 tests. No one doubts that players were using PEDs then but also... no one without an agenda is using THAT test to justify their argument.
Testing began in 2004 and if they didn't have any positive after that date and they didn't have any trainers or hired associates questioned or arrested, you can't say they were in the Bonds/Clemens/McGwire group...
Edit to add. You are really showing your hatred toward Ortiz. Almost no one says "he tested positive". The one test you are referencing is the 2003 'anonymous' test where the MLBPA and MLB all agreed that if the test had more than 5% false positives, it wouldn't be considered a real test. That one had 'at least 10 out of 104'... Not 10 positives out of 104... it had 10 FALSE positives out of 104 tests. No one doubts that players were using PEDs then but also... no one without an agenda is using THAT test to justify their argument.
Testing began in 2004 and if they didn't have any positive after that date and they didn't have any trainers or hired associates questioned or arrested, you can't say they were in the Bonds/Clemens/McGwire group...
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Serious question dorn.....why is it cringe? OK I'll give you the beta comment, but why should journalists be in charge? They do tend to have their stinger out a lot of the time, so bias certainly creeps in.
It just shows how little it matters now. MLB has totally lost its 'stats' aspect. Back in the early 90s, all the kids in my neighborhood were running around with the daily stats in the newspaper, and baseball cards were everywhere. Then came the strike, then the Roid Era. I know that MLB has somewhat recovered with advanced stats and what not, but it's just not what it was. Yeah fans like to see their team win, but it was just so much better before that when you could follow players and their stats. The NFL is so much better about the winning/losing part. Anyways, not sure where I'm going with this, but I don't know where MLB goes from here.
Winning/losing drama is also much better in college ball.
Winning/losing drama is also much better in college ball.
Bonds, McGwire, Clemens didn’t test positive but it’s pretty obvious. No HOF
Bagwell, Piazza, Pudge didn’t test positive but it’s pretty obvious. HOF
Palmeiro did test positive. Denies it. Pretty obvious he did. No HOF
Ortiz. Did test positive. Denies it. Pretty obvious he did. HOF
The voters shunning some players because of speculation, or evidence. Then voting in other guys with with the same amount of speculation, or evidence because they’re likeable.
My point is, and the reason I started this post. Be consistent. Either shun them all or allow them all in.
Bagwell, Piazza, Pudge didn’t test positive but it’s pretty obvious. HOF
Palmeiro did test positive. Denies it. Pretty obvious he did. No HOF
Ortiz. Did test positive. Denies it. Pretty obvious he did. HOF
The voters shunning some players because of speculation, or evidence. Then voting in other guys with with the same amount of speculation, or evidence because they’re likeable.
My point is, and the reason I started this post. Be consistent. Either shun them all or allow them all in.
again, you appear to have identified the line. Except that the positive you reference with Ortiz isn't recognized by anyone as a positive. a test with more than 10% error rate isn't a valid test. Even MLB admitted that.
You just don't seem to like the line they drew years ago. They have been consistent to anyone paying attention. They just don't want to do your rule of all or none.
You just don't seem to like the line they drew years ago. They have been consistent to anyone paying attention. They just don't want to do your rule of all or none.
Former MLB player Todd Zeile brought the pain on this:
https://twitter.com/SNYtv/status/1486519333065039876?s=20
Yeah describing someone as "beta" is super cringe. As is dudes these days who's seemingly whole-*** personality is "durrrr media suxx!".
THAT SAID, of course there is an argument to be made to not have solely the media be MLB HOF voters. I believe this is why the veterans committee was created. The solution is probably to have a broad base of journalists, current HOF members, coaches, and even fans.
Also, spoiler alert: EVERYONE has biases.
Schilling asked the voters not to elect him. Otherwise he almost certainly would have made it this year.
Several voters who had voted for him in the past made a point to leave him off in accordance with his wishes. That makes sense. I would have voted for him in Years 1-9 but after he made his preference clear, I wouldn't have in Year 10, voting instead for someone who wanted it.
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The Cookie Monster having opinions on the relative masculinity of words is funny to think about.
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/curt-...es-in-112m-video-game-disaster-211155552.html
Guess it's can be called theft or socialism by his definition.
Guess it's can be called theft or socialism by his definition.
Problem is your definition of huge steaming piles of ****. All he did was be a Republican, I can think of many people who are shittier.
None of us are truly decent people.
If politics are the sole explanation of why Schilling didn't make it in in Years 1-9, why were Mariano Rivera and Chipper Jones first balloters, two people with similar politics and level of outspokenness? John Smoltz is pretty well known to be Republican, though he doesn't seem to be as confrontational as those 3.
I know everyone loves playing the victim, but surely we all see that there was more at play than politics?
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