More EV news from F. O. R. D.

[Wesson Bulldog]

Dealers Are Turning Away EV Inventory: Report (msn.com)
America’s major manufacturers have made it clear that electric vehicles haven’t been as profitable as hoped. Ford has stated they expected to lose $4.5 billion on their electric vehicle divisions this year. Detroit’s automakers knew that they were going to lose money in these early years of production, just not that much money. Now, dealers are refusing EV deliveries to avoid having cars they can’t move off their lots.

Insider reports that some dealers don’t want new electric vehicle deliveries. Scott Kunes, the chief operating officer of Kunes Auto and RV Group told the website that his company has “turned away EV inventory.” The dealers have pointed to a lack of demand for less-than-affluent customers. The wave of early adopters willing to spend to get their hands on an electric vehicle has faded, but cost-conscious consumers are apprehensive about making the transition.

Kunes noted that automakers are asking dealers to make a significant investment in EVs and the dealers want to see a return on their investment. EV sales are starting to plateau as the demand from early adopters has seemingly been satisfied. The conversations in showrooms are now not just about higher prices but about the lifestyle changes tied to electric vehicles.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Government mandates killing profits and hurting consumers. Such a surprise!**

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Is some of that $4.5billion loss tied to the massive construction project of the new ford EV plant in Tennessee? That’s costing a lot of money and making nothing. No clue how they are working the accounting on that.

 

[aTotal360]

It's pretty simple. They cost too much and do too little.

 

[Perd Hapley]

It's pretty simple. They cost too much and do too little.

Well, right now, its really just the first thing. Very few can afford the payments with current interest rates.

 

[Car Ramrod.sixpack]

I just wonder how long it will take Ford to retool the Blue Oval plant in TN for gas powered vehicles.

 

[HailStout]

The magic number is 500 miles. Get a vehicle that can go 500 miles on a charge and you have a winner. Also, trying to sell EV trucks is not the way to do it. Selling to the wrong people.

 

[aTotal360]

Well, right now, its really just the first thing. Very few can afford the payments with current interest rates.

It's not JUST the first thing. Even if they cost 50% less than they do, I still wouldn't buy one. The thought of having to stop at some random charger for 45 minutes to an hour simply isn't appealing to me. Never will be.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Government mandates killing profits and hurting consumers. Such a surprise!**

You left out helping China

 

[Seinfeld]

It's not JUST the first thing. Even if they cost 50% less than they do, I still wouldn't buy one. The thought of having to stop at some random charger for 45 minutes to an hour simply isn't appealing to me. Never will be.

I’ll just add that when I look back at the vehicle market from the last 20 years that has been absolutely flooded with people not batting an eye at dropping $70k for a truck, Navigator, Range Rover, etc… I’m not sure that it’s the demographic that’s gonna be overly concerned about a few interest rate percentage points

 

[DerHntr]

It's not JUST the first thing. Even if they cost 50% less than they do, I still wouldn't buy one. The thought of having to stop at some random charger for 45 minutes to an hour simply isn't appealing to me. Never will be.

More affluent people will be sitting in their cars or hanging out by their cars for 45 minutes in random places like hotel parking lots. It sounds like a criminal’s dream opportunity. I wonder if that has been a problem yet.

I need my truck to take me on some longer, out of state hunting trips each year. I am limited on time away from life to partake in these trips. I’m not willing to wait that long to recharge a couple of times (or more) just to get to my destination. Plus, once I’m on location, there is currently not a charging station within 150 miles. Rural America will definitely be the last to adopt this technology because of the infrastructure and the inconvenience. Even for something they all desperately wanted, cell phone infrastructure was put into rural areas last.

 

[Seinfeld]

The magic number is 500 miles. Get a vehicle that can go 500 miles on a charge and you have a winner. Also, trying to sell EV trucks is not the way to do it. Selling to the wrong people.

Yep, the problem we’re running into isn’t the push for electrification. It’s the pie in the sky dream that there will soon be some one size fits all solution that will meet every consumer’s needs. It’s just not realistic

My dad moved to a low maintenance zero lot line around 7 years ago, and he doesn’t have a gas powered tool in his garage. I, on the other hand, live on 2.5 acres, and I have a couple electric tools, but I’m not ready to give up my gas mower to take a complete leap of faith on something battery powered.

 

[Boom Boom]

Dealers Are Turning Away EV Inventory: Report (msn.com)
America’s major manufacturers have made it clear that electric vehicles haven’t been as profitable as hoped. Ford has stated they expected to lose $4.5 billion on their electric vehicle divisions this year. Detroit’s automakers knew that they were going to lose money in these early years of production, just not that much money. Now, dealers are refusing EV deliveries to avoid having cars they can’t move off their lots.

Insider reports that some dealers don’t want new electric vehicle deliveries. Scott Kunes, the chief operating officer of Kunes Auto and RV Group told the website that his company has “turned away EV inventory.” The dealers have pointed to a lack of demand for less-than-affluent customers. The wave of early adopters willing to spend to get their hands on an electric vehicle has faded, but cost-conscious consumers are apprehensive about making the transition.

Kunes noted that automakers are asking dealers to make a significant investment in EVs and the dealers want to see a return on their investment. EV sales are starting to plateau as the demand from early adopters has seemingly been satisfied. The conversations in showrooms are now not just about higher prices but about the lifestyle changes tied to electric vehicles.

The part I keep seeing being missed in these threads, is as far as policy goes this is not just about "climate change". Like it or not, EVs are a future market that we as a nation either grab a large chunk of, or watch it go to China. Jobs, jobs, jobs. The policy isn't about being "woke", it's about 21st century economics.

That being said, still plenty of room for DC or Big Auto to screw things up.

 

[57stratdawg]

I’ve had an EV for like 6 months and haven’t charged in public yet. I don’t really know why it gets discussed so much.

Also, I think “dealers” might be on the outside looking in with EVs. Tesla doesn’t have dealers. There’s been a lot of discussion about legally having to sell EVs through Dealers. I think most EV’s are being ordered direct.

 

[dawgman42]

The magic number is 500 miles. Get a vehicle that can go 500 miles on a charge and you have a winner. Also, trying to sell EV trucks is not the way to do it. Selling to the wrong people.

The other part of that is length of re-charge, availability of charging stations, and overall battery longevity. Get those under wraps, and don't have a ridiculous cost, and I'll be happy to enter the EV establishment.

So, that pretty much means I'll stay on the sidelines for the foreseeable future.

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

Is some of that $4.5billion loss tied to the massive construction project of the new ford EV plant in Tennessee? That’s costing a lot of money and making nothing. No clue how they are working the accounting on that.

I would imagine. Again this story is fluff for those

I just wonder how long it will take Ford to retool the Blue Oval plant in TN for gas powered vehicles.

They won't if they are actually trying to be relevant in the next car boom.
They screwed up in not going more luxury in the 90s, building what I would call a 5 year vehicle. One that falls apart at or around 100k. Toyota destroyed them and took over the US.
Ford has been working towards electric for the last 10 years. The trend is not going to end. They have increased from 30 miles to 320 miles in a decade. GM has extended to 400 miles. When they get to 500 miles, and fast charging network is there, they are going to see a drastic increase in sales. Each year it is going to get better.
Republicans should be all for this change too. It lowers our resilience on Middle East Oil, it will lower the overall cost of gas for everyone else, it will require updates to the power generation and transmission grid. It will demand new jobs across the board and it will position us well into the next phase of world economics.

I for one, am a fan of anything that allows us to tell the Middle East to go 17 themselves.

 

[aTotal360]

I’ve had an EV for like 6 months and haven’t charged in public yet.

I don’t really know why it gets discussed so much.

Because I can put +35K of miles on a vehicle annually and do many days of over 300 miles.

Lastly, I CANNOT revolve my day around charging opportunities.

I'm not fortunate enough to have one of those 50-mile round-trip occupations.

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

I’ve had an EV for like 6 months and haven’t charged in public yet.

I don’t really know why it gets discussed so much.

Because people just love paying 100 dollars a tank of gas opposed to $17 dollars to charge. That and Biden is for it.

It is the same reason why we keep voting for Republicans in a state where we rank dead last in almost every single category measured, where we do not expect our leaders to do anything to change it, because we are afraid of change. We just simply do not want to change. We don't want to locally fund school districts. We do not want to build the facilities required to teach. All this lottery money, and where is it going? Road projects... some of it. Should have been earmarked as a bonus to the state and local funding for schools. Matching funds to local taxes for school facilities and teacher's salaries. But no..... lets pave over some stupid *** back county roads.

 

[patdog]

I’ve had an EV for like 6 months and haven’t charged in public yet.

I don’t really know why it gets discussed so much.

Because a lot of people would need to use public chargers if they bought an EV. If all you do is in town driving and short trips, an EV can be fine. But if you're like me and only have 1 vehicle, I'm not going to put up with the inconveniences of public charging, even if it's just once every couple of months.

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

The other part of that is length of re-charge, availability of charging stations, and overall battery longevity. Get those under wraps, and don't have a ridiculous cost, and I'll be happy to enter the EV establishment.

So, that pretty much means I'll stay on the sidelines for the foreseeable future.

That's cool. It doesn't work for everyone, but I will say for the vast, vast, vast majority of people, they only drive like 40 miles or less a day. It would work perfectly for 95% of their lives.

 

[Negative Waves]

The logical step would have been a gas-electric hybrid that has a battery that would go about 50-60 miles and then a gas engine to kick in for the long trips. Charge it overnight, and you're good to go for a standard commute but have the gas engine for longer trips. This design would probably cut down on gas usage tremendously while not putting excessive strain on the electrical grid. Instead, the government decides to skip this step and go whole hog on a still-developing technology that does not yet have the infrastructure in place.

 

[vhdawg]

Obligatory:

 

[mstateglfr]

This discussion is really interesting as I havent read the various emotion based EV concerns before.***

 

[GloryDawg]

I’ve had an EV for like 6 months and haven’t charged in public yet. I don’t really know why it gets discussed so much.

Also, I think “dealers” might be on the outside looking in with EVs. Tesla doesn’t have dealers. There’s been a lot of discussion about legally having to sell EVs through Dealers. I think most EV’s are being ordered direct.

What do you mean Tesla doesn't have dealers?

 

[patdog]

The logical step would have been a gas-electric hybrid that has a battery that would go about 50-60 miles and then a gas engine to kick in for the long trips. Charge it overnight, and you're good to go for a standard commute but have the gas engine for longer trips. This design would probably cut down on gas usage tremendously while not putting excessive strain on the electrical grid. Instead, the government decides to skip this step and go whole hog on a still-developing technology that does not yet have the infrastructure in place.

This makes far too much sense to ever happen in any real numbers.

 

[Dawgbite]

I was in Kentucky last week and went by a Ford battery plant under construction. This thing is measured in acres under roof, not square feet. It was massive. I don’t understand spending that kind of money to produce something that very few people want or will buy.

 

[GloryDawg]

A lot of the decisions being made by these companies don't make sense. You need to dig deep into who is on the Board of Directors and what large stockholders voted to put them there.

 

[mstateglfr]

^ What 80% of SPS would be using at the start of the 20th century, if given the choice between a buggy and car.

"All my horses need to keep moving is some water and hay, which is available anywhere! What will happen if you run out of lamp fuel in the middle of nowhere Noxapater?!? You simply can't trust that unreliable fire burning horseless carriage, and I refuse to even recognize its value for some people because it does not work for my needs!"

 

[mstateglfr]

The logical step would have been a gas-electric hybrid that has a battery that would go about 50-60 miles and then a gas engine to kick in for the long trips. Charge it overnight, and you're good to go for a standard commute but have the gas engine for longer trips. This design would probably cut down on gas usage tremendously while not putting excessive strain on the electrical grid. Instead, the government decides to skip this step and go whole hog on a still-developing technology that does not yet have the infrastructure in place.

This makes far too much sense to ever happen in any real numbers.

...so PHEV. Why didnt anyone think of that?***

 

[mstateglfr]

Because I can put +35K of miles on a vehicle annually and do many days of over 300 miles.

Lastly, I CANNOT revolve my day around charging opportunities.

I'm not fortunate enough to have one of those 50-mile round-trip occupations.

Do you get this worked up over everything else that is made available to consumers, but doesnt work for you?

Like if you cant have Lasik, do you then hate Lasik even though it works well for others?
Or if farmers markets arent near you, do you then hate the idea of community gatherings where produce and goods are sold?

 

[rynodawg]

The magic number is 500 miles. Get a vehicle that can go 500 miles on a charge and you have a winner. Also, trying to sell EV trucks is not the way to do it. Selling to the wrong people.

That and availability of highway/interstate chargers. I actually like the Mach E but will never buy one unless it can be driven easily across the Southeast. Don’t want to own any car that is physically confined to the Jackson metro. I’ll believe that Tesla is opening up their chargers when I physically see non-Teslas at their chargers.

Also, charging time does not take 45 minutes, more like 25 typically. Tesla has had this figured out for a decade now and all the other manufacturers have made a giant mistake depending on Electrify America and all the other sub-par networks.

 

[Hot Rock]

I would imagine. Again this story is fluff for those

They won't if they are actually trying to be relevant in the next car boom.
They screwed up in not going more luxury in the 90s, building what I would call a 5 year vehicle. One that falls apart at or around 100k. Toyota destroyed them and took over the US.
Ford has been working towards electric for the last 10 years. The trend is not going to end. They have increased from 30 miles to 320 miles in a decade. GM has extended to 400 miles. When they get to 500 miles, and fast charging network is there, they are going to see a drastic increase in sales. Each year it is going to get better.
Republicans should be all for this change too. It lowers our resilience on Middle East Oil, it will lower the overall cost of gas for everyone else, it will require updates to the power generation and transmission grid. It will demand new jobs across the board and it will position us well into the next phase of world economics.

I for one, am a fan of anything that allows us to tell the Middle East to go 17 themselves.

This guy gets it. That last line is the key! Get off oil at least as far as it works. People being resistant over EVs over which political party they vote is nuts to me. Healthy self-sustainable energy source for us would be Huuuuuge. Oil will still be needed for decades to come but EVs will decrease the demand for oil and help keep us Energy independent. ICE still has it's advantages... for now. A few years from now, things may be different.

I have had my EV since last December and I have charged away from my house very little. I have recharged at a Harley Shop in 25 minutes and at a hotel that I stayed overnight, felt pretty safe myself. I guess parking your car at a hotel is just as dangerous for an EV owner as it is a ICE owner. Depends on the hotel.

I charged at a public recharging station in a busy parking lot at a mall. Place was very well lit and safe. Not much different to me than any other store parking lot. I was only there 20 minutes as that is all it takes to recharge mine and I had lunch just across the street. New Albany has a recharging station at the Trail head by the library. I used it once until I figured out how to charge it my lake property. Tip any dryer plug can be used, which is a pain but at 3 cents a mile for energy vs 12 cents in my Camry. I will gladly go through that little bit of trouble until I get me an outside plug up there.

Do not underestimate the need to plan every day though. Before you get in it, you need to know the plan for today but it's not hard. Once people get used to doing it, you can do it without much thought but you have to want to do this. Don't get into hating it or expecting there not to be anything to learn because there is a lot to learn from software to prepping your home to just learning where the places you can use. Once you travel on the interstate there are more places to charge. My car can charge quickly but not all of them can.

Once they can reach the 500 mile mark and recharge in 20 minutes, more and more people will use them.

Ford not profitable yet, color me not surprised. It's a brand new market, everyone is not going to do it well.

 

[thatsbaseball]

That's cool. It doesn't work for everyone, but I will say for the vast, vast, vast majority of people, they only drive like 40 miles or less a day. It would work perfectly for 95% of their lives.

But what percentage of our overall climate "problems" are those people actually contributing ?

 

[aTotal360]

Do you get this worked up over everything else that is made available to consumers, but doesnt work for you?

Like if you cant have Lasik, do you then hate Lasik even though it works well for others?
Or if farmers markets arent near you, do you then hate the idea of community gatherings where produce and goods are sold?

That's rich coming from you.

Read the post I was replying to. They make it sound like EVs work for everyone.

 

[rynodawg]

This guy gets it. That last line is the key! Get off oil at least as far as it works. People being resistant over EVs over which political party they vote is nuts to me. Healthy self-sustainable energy source for us would be Huuuuuge. Oil will still be needed for decades to come but EVs will decrease the demand for oil and help keep us Energy independent. ICE still has it's advantages... for now. A few years from now, things may be different.

I have had my EV since last December and I have charged away from my house very little. I have recharged at a Harley Shop in 25 minutes and at a hotel that I stayed overnight, felt pretty safe myself. I guess parking your car at a hotel is just as dangerous for an EV owner as it is a ICE owner. Depends on the hotel.

I charged at a public recharging station in a busy parking lot at a mall. Place was very well lit and safe. Not much different to me than any other store parking lot. I was only there 20 minutes as that is all it takes to recharge mine and I had lunch just across the street. New Albany has a recharging station at the Trail head by the library. I used it once until I figured out how to charge it my lake property. Tip any dryer plug can be used, which is a pain but at 3 cents a mile for energy vs 12 cents in my Camry. I will gladly go through that little bit of trouble until I get me an outside plug up there.

Do not underestimate the need to plan every day though. Before you get in it, you need to know the plan for today but it's not hard. Once people get used to doing it, you can do it without much thought but you have to want to do this. Don't get into hating it or expecting there not to be anything to learn because there is a lot to learn from software to prepping your home to just learning where the places you can use. Once you travel on the interstate there are more places to charge. My car can charge quickly but not all of them can.

Once they can reach the 500 mile mark and recharge in 20 minutes, more and more people will use them.

Ford not profitable yet, color me not surprised. It's a brand new market, everyone is not going to do it well.

Did you go with Tesla then? I feel like that’s the only viable option in Mississippi right now. Plenty of super chargers and hotel chargers across the state. Right now I’m content owning a paid off gas SUV, waiting to see if anything changes.

 

[dudehead]

Sometime in the last year or so, Ford mandated dealers make one of two tiers of EV facility improvements one which cost about $500K. If the dealer didn't make the improvements, it got no EVs to sell. I suspect that arrangement somehow plays into this story.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Yep, the problem we’re running into isn’t the push for electrification. It’s the pie in the sky dream that there will soon be some one size fits all solution that will meet every consumer’s needs. It’s just not realistic

My dad moved to a low maintenance zero lot line around 7 years ago, and he doesn’t have a gas powered tool in his garage. I, on the other hand, live on 2.5 acres, and I have a couple electric tools, but I’m not ready to give up my gas mower to take a complete leap of faith on something battery powered.

Agree.

And I just want to ask, what exactly is wrong with hybrids? I love the one my work has, I drive it all the time, gas mileage is great, costs hardly anything. If I ever have a longer commute again, I'm buying one.

On the other hand, if I need to haul shlt, I need a gas-powered truck.

Some people like the 100% EV, I'm not a fan of that personally. Not yet anyway, until all the kinks get worked out (like what's happening now). I'll let a couple of you get stranded without a charger first before I take that plunge.

I honestly don't see what the big discussions are over this. Just typical political BS. @LordMcBuckethead just couldn't miss that change to launch into his anti-Republican idiocy, especially when Democrats will not help any of the things you mentioned. Democrats are the big reason why we're in the state we're in, honestly. At least they (Republicans) are trying, and unfortunately we have the dumber Republicans trying to stop that progress too. I think the real problem in Mississippi is a sizable chunk of the populace is just plumb idiotic, and there's just too many chances to take advantage of that by the smarter folks, so it happens.

So can we stop discussing this stuff? It's like a lightning rod for the SPS squad. On the other hand, if they are quarantined here, maybe they won't comment in the actual sports threads??