More travel baseball (since it's the insane tryout season)......

[Smoked Toag]

Assumptions:

1) Travel baseball has become the norm, with rec ball too watered down to play (not to mention the parks and recs don't really give a **** anymore);
2) Baseball will be played year round;
3) We're talking the average players here - the guys who aren't studs but likely make All-Star teams (in the old system) and are generally among the best on a rec team (again, in the old system). But I also want to encompass the kids that are solid too, but maybe not the better athletes, the kids that try hard, can throw/catch, and want to be out there. So really two different groups here.

What's the best way to navigate? Around here most all tournament organizations have 3 major divisions, A, AA, AAA. For the type of player I listed above, is it better to be a role player on an AAA team? Or be one of the leaders on a A or AA team? Biggest difference I see in these teams is that the AAA teams have played together longer. Many times the pitching is about the same, especially since so many will throw their best kid twice in a weekend well over 120 pitches (different discussion).

I see it all too often - a very good ball player wants to stick with all the other good players, and quickly get whisked into LF, even though he'd be an infielder on a team that wasn't quite as good. Dave Bartoo says that QBs who have to lead their team, at the non-blue-bloods, generally have a better shot at NFL success. Wonder if this works for kid sports? The second group of players up there may prefer this, I don't know.

 

[Col. Forbin]

All will depend on age. I would look at this the same way I look at club soccer. The younger they are the more important it is to get reps/PT. If that means the player needs to be on a B team rather than an A then so be it. I wouldn’t worry about the prestige or division until they get into high school.

 

[Smoked Toag]

All will depend on age. I would look at this the same way I look at club soccer. The younger they are the more important it is to get reps/PT. If that means the player needs to be on a B team rather than an A then so be it. I wouldn’t worry about the prestige or division until they get into high school.

Yeah agree, soccer is very similar and same situation. And funny enough, these are the two sports that want you to play year round. So, if you have a kid who is in soccer and baseball, you can generally find a group of those parents and work out a decent schedule.

But for the kids who want to play football, they get screwed, having to miss practice and juggle crap around in the fall.

Some of the crazier parents do all 3 in the fall. Ridiculous that you either have to do that, or choose.

 

[SteelCurtain74]

Yeah agree, soccer is very similar and same situation. And funny enough, these are the two sports that want you to play year round. So, if you have a kid who is in soccer and baseball, you can generally find a group of those parents and work out a decent schedule.

But for the kids who want to play football, they get screwed, having to miss practice and juggle crap around in the fall.

Some of the crazier parents do all 3 in the fall. Ridiculous that you either have to do that, or choose.

Maybe my experience is just unique or we've been very fortunate to be on teams that have encouraged their players to play other sports. My son has played football the past two years for his school (5th and 6th grade) and will play again this coming fall in 7th grade. To that end however, I've always had a discussion with his baseball coach at the beginning of the fall to let him know that football would be the priority and if that was an issue to let me know and we would find another team in the spring. To date, I've not had any of the coaches suggest that he would be penalized for playing football and the last couple of years more than half of his baseball team played football anyway so it was probably a moot point.

In regards to soccer, my daughter has made a club team for the second year in a row. She is again on what they call the developmental team which is exactly where she needs to be. I have friends who are upset their little princess didn't make the A team or B team even though they were on those teams last year and got very little playing time. I'm not getting caught up what team a 10 year old is on. I'm more interested in her developing her skills so that when she gets to junior high and high school she has the best chance on making the team also instilling the work ethic required to get there.

Club soccer and travel baseball have their flaws, most of it deriving from unrealistic and delusional parents, but they are not going anywhere. Too much money to be made. It's just best to navigate it the best as possible and stay away from the bad actors which is sometimes easier said than done.

 

[00Dawg]

I'm a firm believer that baseball reps, particularly at-bats, are more...

important than level of competition for most kids. There is a point for uber-talented kids and kids of a certain age (not sure where yet, but it's after 12) where that's not true, but for the vast majority, they need to be in a batter's box, and for future pitchers, on a mound (pitch count factored in), as often as possible as early as possible.

The caveat here is it can get too bad....there's no point in repeated at-bats game after game where you see one strike in five pitches, and diminishing returns if the kid is throwing strikes on 80% of his pitches and getting multiple no-hitters. I coached one of the latter a few years back. He's in Select ball now, and that's where he belongs. He's going to master multiple pitches before high school, and if he keeps growing, will have a shot at playing beyond high school. He doesn't belong in Rec, at least not as a pitcher.

So, to the question in the original post, if you are stuck having to go the travel ball route, be the better player on the A team.

 

[dawgstudent]

Your last sentence contradicts your post I think. Did you mean be the better player on the B team?

 

[Smoked Toag]

Your last sentence contradicts your post I think. Did you mean be the better player on the B team?

A, AA, AAA. But yeah, better player on the lesser team.

 

[047Dog]

important than level of competition for most kids. There is a point for uber-talented kids and kids of a certain age (not sure where yet, but it's after 12) where that's not true, but for the vast majority, they need to be in a batter's box, and for future pitchers, on a mound (pitch count factored in), as often as possible as early as possible.

The caveat here is it can get too bad....there's no point in repeated at-bats game after game where you see one strike in five pitches, and diminishing returns if the kid is throwing strikes on 80% of his pitches and getting multiple no-hitters. I coached one of the latter a few years back. He's in Select ball now, and that's where he belongs. He's going to master multiple pitches before high school, and if he keeps growing, will have a shot at playing beyond high school. He doesn't belong in Rec, at least not as a pitcher.

So, to the question in the original post, if you are stuck having to go the travel ball route, be the better player on the A team.

I don't think there is any "stuck" going the travel ball route. It is the only route, at least in MS. Rec ball is dead.

 

[Cooterpoot]

Go where the best coaching is at. If it's all daddy ball, good luck.

 

[stateu1]

Your last sentence contradicts your post I think. Did you mean be the better player on the B team?

I thought the same thing. 2 paragraphs to say he should play A ball.

 

[00Dawg]

Rec is still going over here, at least through 11/12 year-olds.

Southern Birmingham suburbs had a 15-team league for Rec. Our local park fielded 4 of them. We also had two additional Select-type teams who played in what's known as Over The Mountain (they usually switch to nearby travel tournaments for the summer) which probably had 20 teams. One of our park's Select teams got whooped a lot and I think would've been better served parceling out that talent through rec teams so that those 10 or 11 players would've almost all been pitching multiple innings at least once a week, but you'll never convince their coaches of that.

As I was reading back through this thread, one of the the factors I didn't mention was quality of coaching. When Goat is picking out his kid's destination, if the single-A coach sucks, that's gotta be a factor. Notably, this isn't related to the quality of the players of the team on many occasions. There's a Rec coach in our park that develops players an order of magnitude better than everyone else (myself included), but because he's not buddies with the movers and shakers and his kid isn't in the top 20 or so in the park, he's not heading up a Select team.

 

[047Dog]

Southern Birmingham suburbs had a 15-team league for Rec. Our local park fielded 4 of them. We also had two additional Select-type teams who played in what's known as Over The Mountain (they usually switch to nearby travel tournaments for the summer) which probably had 20 teams. One of our park's Select teams got whooped a lot and I think would've been better served parceling out that talent through rec teams so that those 10 or 11 players would've almost all been pitching multiple innings at least once a week, but you'll never convince their coaches of that.

As I was reading back through this thread, one of the the factors I didn't mention was quality of coaching. When Goat is picking out his kid's destination, if the single-A coach sucks, that's gotta be a factor. Notably, this isn't related to the quality of the players of the team on many occasions. There's a Rec coach in our park that develops players an order of magnitude better than everyone else (myself included), but because he's not buddies with the movers and shakers and his kid isn't in the top 20 or so in the park, he's not heading up a Select team.

My son is 20 now and rec in the Jackson area even back when he played died out after 10 years old. North Jackson, Clinton, Northwest Rankin used to be pretty decent rec leagues but the popularity of "travel ball" hurt them immensely. When mine played, many of the all star teams became "travel/select" teams after 8 or 9 years old. Now, kids are playing travel ball at 6 and not even messing with rec leagues.

 

[Smoked Toag]

My son is 20 now and rec in the Jackson area even back when he played died out after 10 years old. North Jackson, Clinton, Northwest Rankin used to be pretty decent rec leagues but the popularity of "travel ball" hurt them immensely. When mine played, many of the all star teams became "travel/select" teams after 8 or 9 years old. Now, kids are playing travel ball at 6 and not even messing with rec leagues.

Yep. Ours held out but even the die-hard rec guys just left to start travel, starting at 8U. It's all over for the Jackson (metro) rec league. All Stars are nearly non-existent starting at 7 or 8U nowadays.

I wonder if the City of Jackson still has anything. I never come across any travel teams from there. I understand the money side but you'd think they could get something started.

 

[beachbumdawg]

A, AA, AAA. But yeah, better player on the lesser team.

My oldest son hated being the better kid on the lower level teams he played on early on (through 12u) - it was obvious who put in work outside of the practices - he wanted team success more than his own individual success

Yes he got great reps and put in big positions to deliver for the team in tough situations which all contributed to him playing at the major level now while still being successful

My youngest 10, plays on a AA/AAA 10u team and a 11u major team - he gets more opportunity to play different positions on the 10u team (plays everywhere but 1b) vs the 11u (plays MIF and pitches) - he has struggled at the plate playing 11 as he’s seen velocities up to 72

All that to say, it depends on the child - my oldest couldn’t have started out in the higher levels - it would have wrecked his confidence because he didn’t understand the long game then and didn’t take failure well

My youngest has unwavering confidence, not because he’s a great player but because he’s been through so much since birth (6 surgeries before 7), with the most positive attitude toward life in general

Most importantly get reps inside and outside of team practice/games, make it fun and not job like, practice with higher level players if able to do so, both of you enjoy the ride - remember nothing really matters development wise until puberty and thereafter

 

[coachnorm]

Now that there is year round baseball, the players are less athletic. Having a kid playing year round ball retards his athletic development. I personally knew major league players who were studs and one thing they had in common was they played football, basketball, or wrestled. If one of them asked to play year round, they would have got a kick in the *** from dad. Dad wanted his kid to grow up tough and he know baseball does not get that done. Before year round baseball happened, a higher percentage of Americans were on MLB rosters, now almost a third are foreign? Because of the aluminum bat, physically inferior participants can play baseball. If a high school-er of today had to swing wood, he would struggle. Back in the day, that did not exist because there was no year round baseball to soften up a baseball player.

 

[Smoked Toag]

Now that there is year round baseball, the players are less athletic. Having a kid playing year round ball retards his athletic development. I personally knew major league players who were studs and one thing they had in common was they played football, basketball, or wrestled. If one of them asked to play year round, they would have got a kick in the *** from dad. Dad wanted his kid to grow up tough and he know baseball does not get that done. Before year round baseball happened, a higher percentage of Americans were on MLB rosters, now almost a third are foreign? Because of the aluminum bat, physically inferior participants can play baseball. If a high school-er of today had to swing wood, he would struggle. Back in the day, that did not exist because there was no year round baseball to soften up a baseball player.

Well, they also didn't have the ability to play year-round, as this phenomena just started in the late 90s. So we're really just starting to see how it applies. What now-retired MLB players say is kind of irrelevant. One thing we definitely know is a result is all the arm injuries.

Obviously this was all triggered by whoever that guy was who came up with the 10,000 hour rule or whatever.

I don't disagree with you coachnorm, I actually agree. I think a number of players on our (MSU's) current team are perfect examples. As long as the kids stick with baseball, it's fine. But it's very easy to to say the hell with it when you get slightly behind because you play other sports.

 

[coachnorm]

Well, they also didn't have the ability to play year-round, as this phenomena just started in the late 90s. So we're really just starting to see how it applies. What now-retired MLB players say is kind of irrelevant. One thing we definitely know is a result is all the arm injuries.

Obviously this was all triggered by whoever that guy was who came up with the 10,000 hour rule or whatever.

I don't disagree with you coachnorm, I actually agree. I think a number of players on our (MSU's) current team are perfect examples. As long as the kids stick with baseball, it's fine. But it's very easy to to say the hell with it when you get slightly behind because you play other sports.

Over the years I have seen some dirty play by baseball coaches at the club/high school level. Now I see HS baseball coaches doing side work at the club level. These types of coaches basically blackmail players and parents to get that kid year round. Some of these SOBs are not even teachers on campus, they are walk ons or minimum wage security associates. Some need the money so they will punish the high school player and parents for not paying year round fees? I see parents that blindly pay basically on good faith. Bottom line is if you paid me summer ball you would not be behind? Is the player really behind or is the assessment faulty for someones financial gain?

I coached Little League Baseball and one of my players, Quintin Berry, has a World Series Ring. Baseball was his third sport. Basketball and Football were king. I also knew the Giles family of Brian and Marcus Giles. Both were stud football players and wrestlers. Both played major league baseball. Their dad, Bill, would have crushed them if they asked to play summer baseball. I played with Terry Forster who had a MLB career and Terry did not play summer baseball either. Two other players Kyle Hypes and Brad McRoberts almost had MLB careers on that team. The high school baseball coaches on that distinguished team were the football head coach and offensive line coach also? One of my first years as a high school football coach, Jacques Jones of the Minnesota Twins was our quarterback.

 

[VegasDawg13]

Obviously this was all triggered by whoever that guy was who came up with the 10,000 hour rule or whatever.

This is not at all obvious. It was triggered by money.

 

[SteelCurtain74]

Well, they also didn't have the ability to play year-round, as this phenomena just started in the late 90s. So we're really just starting to see how it applies. What now-retired MLB players say is kind of irrelevant. One thing we definitely know is a result is all the arm injuries.

Obviously this was all triggered by whoever that guy was who came up with the 10,000 hour rule or whatever.

I don't disagree with you coachnorm, I actually agree. I think a number of players on our (MSU's) current team are perfect examples. As long as the kids stick with baseball, it's fine. But it's very easy to to say the hell with it when you get slightly behind because you play other sports.

Malcolm Gladwell came up with the 10,000 hr rule in his book Outliers. It was based in part on Anders Ericcson's research on violinists in Berlin. His rule has been debunked. Ericcson has come out and stated that Gladwell misinterpreted his findings. The rule was more nuanced than what he described.

To respond about coaches, any coach that would try to convince a player or parent that they will fall behind if they don't play year round is a moron and honestly a disgrace to the game. If a coach tells you that about your child, find a new coach.

 

[Bagman.sixpack]

Someone tell me if travel ball is so bad, why do the South Americans play year round and not have as many issues?

I know of multiple d1 and milb players that are current that only played baseball and a tad bit of basketball. And they are/were on a top SEC team. Not pitchers in college but were as kids.

I only hear this “travel ball is bad” **** from dudes in their 40’s and up. They didn’t have travel ball then.

Your kid will most likely not be able to even play high school if they don’t play travel ball. The skill component, especially for hitting, is too high.

 

[coachnorm]

Someone tell me if travel ball is so bad, why do the South Americans play year round and not have as many issues?

I know of multiple d1 and milb players that are current that only played baseball and a tad bit of basketball. And they are/were on a top SEC team. Not pitchers in college but were as kids.

I only hear this “travel ball is bad” **** from dudes in their 40’s and up. They didn’t have travel ball then.

Your kid will most likely not be able to even play high school if they don’t play travel ball. The skill component, especially for hitting, is too high.

I do not want to come across disrespectful to another sixpacker while sticking with my assessment that these club coaches are shady and preying on players and parents. Consider accepting the info in the attachment. Whats been seen can not be unseen?


https://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-...ke-the-majors-youre-wrong-20190731-story.html

 

[Bagman.sixpack]

No offense taken. If you have research I will absorb it. If it makes sense I’ll consider pulling my kid back.

 

[dog12]

To respond about coaches, any coach that would try to convince a player or parent that they will fall behind if they don't play year round is a moron and honestly a disgrace to the game. If a coach tells you that about your child, find a new coach.

Agree.

Life is too short to have 10-year old boys playing baseball year round.

That's unhealthy, and it's insane. (My opinion.)

 

[Bagman.sixpack]

Coachnorm, that is horrifying.

I still wonder how DR, Ven, etc. do it with seemingly little to no injury.

 

[Bagman.sixpack]

We did coddle our pitchers from what I’ve been told so they don’t get prepped for the season. Thus they get injured.

 

[Maroonthirteen]

Interesting....I was having this same conversation this volleyball season. My daughter plays on the top team for her age. However, the team is so talented that she splits time with a hitter as a DS. I want her to play all the time for her development and learn setter as well as DS/Libero. Anyways, she would play full time on the B team. However my kid wouldn't be happy on the B team. On her current team, they play more tournaments, the team wins more. She hasn't complained about her role. So I don't interfere.

Here is what I do know about all this travel ball...... some kids develop later. Some are all stars all the way through. Some get burned out by 12-14 and quit all together. You just never know.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

The issue in my mind for the modern travel ball is the reliance on tournaments. That ends up with highly concentrated playing time of games. I believe in places like you mention on South America and the Caribbean it is more like a bunch of training camps with scrimmages and then some games. It is more like College baseball where most of your time is practice versus games. They have time to learn fundamentals.

I know it is old school but our travel ball in the dark ages was basically a travel "league" where teams were setup in each town (effectively and All-Star team) and we played teams from other towns with double headers on Saturday and sometimes on Sunday. So 4 games was the max on a weekend. There was usually one big trip at the end of the season for a national tournament. So again more like College Baseball.

 

[Bagman.sixpack]

Interesting....I was having this same conversation this volleyball season. My daughter plays on the top team for her age. However, the team is so talented that she splits time with a hitter as a DS. I want her to play all the time for her development and learn setter as well as DS/Libero. Anyways, she would play full time on the B team. However my kid wouldn't be happy on the B team. On her current team, they play more tournaments, the team wins more. She hasn't complained about her role. So I don't interfere.

Here is what I do know about all this travel ball...... some kids develop later. Some are all stars all the way through. Some get burned out by 12-14 and quit all together. You just never know.

I think you have to go with your kids wishes. If they aren’t getting hardly any playing time, move them. I’ve been there. If they are happy, probably need to listen to them.

Many kids develop later, mine has been one. Some do get burned out, I did, but a lot was dude to a catastrophic injury. Just never know, like you say.

I always say to myself, around 11-12 if they are into it I will put my heart and soul into helping make them better. At that age if they aren’t I'll tell them what it takes to get better. And if they really don’t care, we will move on to something else. No sitting on your *** at the house though.

I didn’t even care that much about baseball again until my kids got into it. I can hop on any sport if they are passionate.

 

[Cooterpoot]

Legit travel teams split a lot of kids. Every kid is rotated basically, because they all have to be seen. Hell, we'd start our lineup where it ended the previous game a lot of times just to even out the ABs. If your goal is college ball, that's just how it is with great, deep teams. If college ball isn't a concern, let your kid play on the team he wants to play on, probably the one with friends. There's a big difference in just wanting to play HS ball and wanting to play college ball. And college kids get "recruited" at 13/14 these days.

 

[Drebin]

What ages are you talking about? That eight year old rec/A player may be a 12 year old AAA player. More often, you see that 8 year old "stud" scuffling in AA by the time he's 12 or 13.

One adage that's true, no matter the age, is that you get out of it what you put into it. Natural ability gives the younger kids an advantage but as they get older, they have to put in the work if they want to stay at that level. Of course, putting in the work involves a lot of the stuff you complain about, but that's what other kids are doing and if you have a kid that wants to compete at that level, that's what it takes.

Once you get to be 12 or 13 playing in LF is not a demotion. It's a position on the field like any other. That rec ball stigma of the sucky kids in the outfield doesn't exist in travel ball above AA level, particularly as the kids get older. Somebody has to play out there, and if a coach is worth his salt, he's making that kid understand that it's important, not a demotion. You can't have 11 short stops.

 

[047Dog]

Interesting....I was having this same conversation this volleyball season. My daughter plays on the top team for her age. However, the team is so talented that she splits time with a hitter as a DS. I want her to play all the time for her development and learn setter as well as DS/Libero. Anyways, she would play full time on the B team. However my kid wouldn't be happy on the B team. On her current team, they play more tournaments, the team wins more. She hasn't complained about her role. So I don't interfere.

Here is what I do know about all this travel ball...... some kids develop later. Some are all stars all the way through. Some get burned out by 12-14 and quit all together. You just never know.

Yep the burnout is real. My son graduated in 2020 and I think back to all the kids he played with and against. All those kids whose dads shuffled them every year to be on the “stud” team. There’s one kid that I can think of that still plays D1 at ULM. There are a couple finishing up JUCO that won’t move on and a few that signed at places like LSU and USM and were out of baseball by their freshman year.

Most of the kids that signed JUCO out of high school never even made it to campus that fall. These dads push and push, post on Fb about how watching their son play travel ball is the best time of their life etc and for what? A slim chance that your kid may play beyond high school if you didn’t already kill his love of the game first?

 

[HRMSU]

Better player on the lesser team is the way to go at least for some x period of time.

Psychologically it will benefit him to be counted on heavily by others and to "be the man". This will carry on through all aspects of his future life to some extent whether he stops playing at 13 or goes on to play MLB.

 

[beachbumdawg]

Yep the burnout is real. My son graduated in 2020 and I think back to all the kids he played with and against. All those kids whose dads shuffled them every year to be on the “stud” team. There’s one kid that I can think of that still plays D1 at ULM. There are a couple finishing up JUCO that won’t move on and a few that signed at places like LSU and USM and were out of baseball by their freshman year.

Most of the kids that signed JUCO out of high school never even made it to campus that fall. These dads push and push, post on Fb about how watching their son play travel ball is the best time of their life etc and for what? A slim chance that your kid may play beyond high school if you didn’t already kill his love of the game first?

We play travel and yes I post about the work they put in as well as some of their game stuff - I do it for out of town family but mainly for the memories to see how much they’ve grown - it’s about the work ethic they are creating along with the friendships created over time

Both my boys say they want to play past high school, however they also both know that that at some point they will hang their spikes up like i did - my oldest wants to be a chemical engineer while my youngest wants to be a Pediatric Urologist

They know that work ethic and hard work guarantees them nothing in life but honesty

 

[Smoked Toag]

Of course, putting in the work involves a lot of the stuff you complain about, but that's what other kids are doing and if you have a kid that wants to compete at that level, that's what it takes.

I complain about overusing pitchers. Like most things, I really don't think you listen or understand the things I tell you.

You can't have 11 short stops.

I don't know that I agree, when it comes to practice/development.

 

[johnson86-1]

Now that there is year round baseball, the players are less athletic. Having a kid playing year round ball retards his athletic development. I personally knew major league players who were studs and one thing they had in common was they played football, basketball, or wrestled. If one of them asked to play year round, they would have got a kick in the *** from dad. Dad wanted his kid to grow up tough and he know baseball does not get that done. Before year round baseball happened, a higher percentage of Americans were on MLB rosters, now almost a third are foreign? Because of the aluminum bat, physically inferior participants can play baseball. If a high school-er of today had to swing wood, he would struggle. Back in the day, that did not exist because there was no year round baseball to soften up a baseball player.

I don't think that's baseball year round making them less athletic, I think it's that less athletic players are more likely to be able and willing to play baseball year round, and that allows them to stay ahead of more athletic players and possibly pushes more athletic players to other sports. Our friends that have done travel ball for U8 coach pitch have two or three good athletes on the team, the rest are just there because they are affluent and have been worked with a lot, both by their dad's and by private coaches. Some of them are probably going to get pushed out each year as other players athleticism overcomes the advantages of more reps that the less athletic players have. But not all of them will and on average, they will be less athletic, if more skilled, than the equivalent teams when we were growing up.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

This. Practice/Training is where players are made. Each game is just a test. If you had more majors tests in school than daily grades and homework, you'd quickly pick up on something being "wrong" about that, but in kid's sports it's too often just about winning the next game and the kids are losing. It think the parents are losing as well but they just can't see past the hyper competitive environment.

 

[Smoked Toag]

I don't think that's baseball year round making them less athletic, I think it's that less athletic players are more likely to be able and willing to play baseball year round, and that allows them to stay ahead of more athletic players and possibly pushes more athletic players to other sports. Our friends that have done travel ball for U8 coach pitch have two or three good athletes on the team, the rest are just there because they are affluent and have been worked with a lot, both by their dad's and by private coaches. Some of them are probably going to get pushed out each year as other players athleticism overcomes the advantages of more reps that the less athletic players have. But not all of them will and on average, they will be less athletic, if more skilled, than the equivalent teams when we were growing up.

Bingo. And it carries on to college, some less-than-athletic players end up on college rosters and we are all sitting around complaining about why we strike out with the bases loaded. That's why college coaches who exclusively recruit the paper trail of the travel ball circuit come up broke a lot of the time. You better get out there and evaluate or you'll end up with a maxed out talent, very similar to the Texas football players who play 7 on 7 all the time. They get all the high school accolades but they never get much better in college.

That said, there is an element of athletic development you miss on if you ONLY play baseball.

The key is that none of it is absolute. Playing travel ball is not itself the cause, but you do start to pick up on trends.

 

[johnson86-1]

Agree.

Life is too short to have 10-year old boys playing baseball year round.

That's unhealthy, and it's insane. (My opinion.)

That's my opinion also, but it's also seemingly a minority opinion (or at least a very silent opinion if it's not the minority).

Had a friend the other day talking about not liking the team his son is on (and his son wants to play with friends) but that the coaching is the best available, and he feels like that's where he needs to be to be as good as he can be. And I'm like, why the 17 do you want him to be the best player he can be? He can grow up fishing, hunting, playing baseball, golf, going to the beach, but you'd rather him spend all his time on baseball because you want him to be as good as possible in high school baseball? I will say that as of right now, the kid (9 years old) does still love baseball, so it's not like he's living vicariously through him and I don't think he'll be one to force his kid to stay in baseball, but it's just odd to me to hear a parent talking about wanting their 9 year old to be, of all things, the best baseball player he can be.

I guess you want them to focus on something, but if I had my kids practicing piano five hours a week people would look at me like I had three heads, but people put their kids in baseball practice 5 hours a week and then play games on the weekend and it's perfectly normal.

 

[Smoked Toag]

This. Practice/Training is where players are made. Each game is just a test. If you had more majors tests in school than daily grades and homework, you'd quickly pick up on something being "wrong" about that, but in kid's sports it's too often just about winning the next game and the kids are losing. It think the parents are losing as well but they just can't see past the hyper competitive environment.

Live game at-bats are valuable, as are live reps on the mound. Of course, to have that, you need live pitching, and playing year-round generally overuses arms. So there's good and bad.

Defense? Yeah, practice is better. But hitting and pitching are BY FAR the most important parts of winning baseball. Not many players make high school teams, get scholarships or get drafted based on their defensive prowess.

 

[Drebin]

I complain about overusing pitchers. Like most things, I really don't think you listen or understand the things I tell you.


I don't know that I agree, when it comes to practice/development.

No, you complain about everything related to travel ball. Not just limited to pitching overuse (which can be a problem because so many coaches don't know what they're doing), but also to the volume of games and year-round commitment. Are you now saying we've never debated those things before? Whether you like it or not, if a kid is going to be successful in the sport, unless he's a prodigy, that level of commitment is going to be required. It's the cost of doing business now.

As for your second comment, you totally missed the point. But it shows that you think like a rec league coach.