Much discussion about the messed up 2 point play

[Bulldog Bruce]

All the talk today on sports talk about the Lions v Cowboys and no show I listened to mentioned this point. It seems this play was like the messed up coin flip where the ref did not understand what was said. The lions did cause some of the confusion so they aren't blameless. Seems the simple solution is just like the coin toss solution. When the normally ineligible player reports, the ref must announce it just like a penalty over his microphone, so everyone knows and can confirm he heard right before the play. I know I have heard it in the background of the game at times. So instead of walking to the defense, just turn on the mike look at the camera and make the announcement of the eligible OL. This way if he misheard, it can be corrected before the play.

 

[kired]

Someone announced it, assume it was the ref. There’s a video from the Spanish broadcast where you can hear #70 announced over loudspeaker.

I think the ref simply screwed up and announced the wrong guy. 70 had checked in a few times earlier and ref just said that number again whether he meant to or not. I don’t think the flag was from head official. Haven’t watched it too closely but in real time seemed like the line judge maybe came and pointed out he announced 70 as eligible and that’s when they realized it was all mixed up, then called the penalty.

ETA link - it’s around the 9:30-10 mark

 

[Chesusdog]

This thing is waaaaaay overblown. The refs announced #70 was eligible. Whether this was a mistake on their part or Detroit's for sending multiple players to the ref, it's just not that big of a deal. They had multiple tries and failed. No one talks about the other blown calls in the game, including a blatant tripping by a Lions player that was called against Dallas... somehow. That blown call gave Detroit the opportunity to be disappointed later.

Honestly, this sort of reaction is what I expected when the Saints had their Super Bowl bid stolen by the refs against LA a few years back. But the hate for all things Dallas Cowboys trumps all.

 

[eckie1]

There’s a reason nobody covered #68. The defense knew what was up, whether the refs screwed it up or what. You don’t want to cover an ineligible receiver and legitimize an otherwise illegal play.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

The refs screwed up, but the Lions also screwed up when they heard 70 announced as eligible when it was supposed to be 68. They should have cleared it up with the refs right there.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I still wonder if this involved the San Francisco 49ers would anyone give a ****? Or if this had gone the other way and the Cowboys had lost would anybody really care so much?

 

[jethreauxdawg]

The biggest screw up was Dan Campbell trying to be cute and use a trick play. Kind of like Pete Carol throwing on the goal line in the Super Bowl instead of giving it to lynch. The Cowboys couldn’t stop Detroit until Dan tried to prove he was the smartest man in the room.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

The play worked perfectly.

 

[Drebin]

This thing is waaaaaay overblown. The refs announced #70 was eligible. Whether this was a mistake on their part or Detroit's for sending multiple players to the ref, it's just not that big of a deal. They had multiple tries and failed. No one talks about the other blown calls in the game, including a blatant tripping by a Lions player that was called against Dallas... somehow. That blown call gave Detroit the opportunity to be disappointed later.

Honestly, this sort of reaction is what I expected when the Saints had their Super Bowl bid stolen by the refs against LA a few years back. But the hate for all things Dallas Cowboys trumps all.

It's difficult for me to have sympathy for the Lions. 68's job was to make sure the ref knew he was eligible. It's on him. But after all that happened, they still went for two and the win instead of kicking the extra point and playing for over time.

I like their coach and I think they're a fun team to watch. But the loss is all on them.

 

[Drebin]

There’s a reason nobody covered #68. The defense knew what was up, whether the refs screwed it up or what. You don’t want to cover an ineligible receiver and legitimize an otherwise illegal play.

OK, so why didn't the refs throw a flag for ineligible receiver downfield, then? That's the only caveat to your argument.

ETA: Nevermind. They did throw a flag for illegal touching.

 

[patdog]

The refs screwed up, but the Lions also screwed up when they heard 70 announced as eligible when it was supposed to be 68. They should have cleared it up with the refs right there.

The Lions screwed up in several ways:
1 - If might throw the ball to #68 on a conversion, don't have #70 be the eligible receiver on all your other lineman eligible plays.
2 - If you're going to throw the ball to #68 don't send 2 other linemen over with him to tell the referee #68 is eligible. And especially don't send #70 over with him. You're just risking exactly what happened, when the referee just mistakenly assumed #70 was the eligible receiver like the other plays.
3 - When the referee announces #70 over the PA system, either change the play or send #68 over to correct him.
4 - WTF were they so insistent on going for 2 in the first place? Just kick the point and play overtime. Especially when you got backed up to the 7-yard line on the penalty.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

All the talk today on sports talk about the Lions v Cowboys and no show I listened to mentioned this point. It seems this play was like the messed up coin flip where the ref did not understand what was said. The lions did cause some of the confusion so they aren't blameless. Seems the simple solution is just like the coin toss solution. When the normally ineligible player reports, the ref must announce it just like a penalty over his microphone, so everyone knows and can confirm he heard right before the play. I know I have heard it in the background of the game at times. So instead of walking to the defense, just turn on the mike look at the camera and make the announcement of the eligible OL. This way if he misheard, it can be corrected before the play.

The ref/analyst on the live broadcast listed about 3 different things that were wrong on that play and would have resulted in a 5 yard penalty on the Lions. He basically stated that so what if they "incorrectly" called ineligible receiver, the play was so screwed up in multiple ways that they got the right result.

 

[uptowndawg]

Something nobody is mentioning. If the refs would have gotten the game of match the voice to the player correctly when 3 OLs ran up to the head ref then they would have announced to the D that 68 was eligible. And he would have been covered and most likely not have caught the ball.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Something nobody is mentioning. If the refs would have gotten the game of match the voice to the player correctly when 3 OLs ran up to the head ref then they would have announced to the D that 68 was eligible. And he would have been covered and most likely not have caught the ball.

Very much like kick return arguments about the ref "taking back" a touchdown based on a block in the back. No, he would have been tackled on the spot if that defender hadn't be taken out of the play illegally.

 

[PapaDawg]

Dan Campbell admitted yesterday that part of the play was to deliberately try to confuse the defense. That is why 3 OL ran up to the referee.
The Lions succeeded in confusing the referee.

 

[ronpolk]

All the talk today on sports talk about the Lions v Cowboys and no show I listened to mentioned this point. It seems this play was like the messed up coin flip where the ref did not understand what was said. The lions did cause some of the confusion so they aren't blameless. Seems the simple solution is just like the coin toss solution. When the normally ineligible player reports, the ref must announce it just like a penalty over his microphone, so everyone knows and can confirm he heard right before the play. I know I have heard it in the background of the game at times. So instead of walking to the defense, just turn on the mike look at the camera and make the announcement of the eligible OL. This way if he misheard, it can be corrected before the play.

It does get announced at NFL games.

 

[maroonmania]

There’s a reason nobody covered #68. The defense knew what was up, whether the refs screwed it up or what. You don’t want to cover an ineligible receiver and legitimize an otherwise illegal play.

Not only that, when you watch the initial 2 Lions walk up to Brad Allen, while I have no idea what was said by them, #68 NEVER wipes down his chest which is the universal sign that I'm eligible and Brad Allen never seems to really look at either one of them anyway. However, when #70 runs onto the field (who Allen does seem to be focused on the whole time) he does put his hands up to midsection area (can't tell exactly what he did with the hands because all the videos I've seen are from his backside). Allen may have absolutely screwed up what the Lions wanted but he was pretty convinced that #70 was the one declaring himself eligible. I don't believe it was just that Allen got the numbers screwed up. But all this crap about the 2 point play being stolen is just bunk because if the Cowboys were told 70 was the one eligible then their defense would not have even worried about what 68 was doing. We don't know WHAT the result would have been had 68 been announced as eligible. And I think trying to win by somehow deceiving the defense into thinking someone is not even eligible for a pass when they actually are is chickensh*t anyway. Sort of reminds me of the crap USM tried to pull on us by having someone jump into a WR position from the sideline without ever going to the huddle. Ridiculous.

 

[Boom Boom]

Not only that, when you watch the initial 2 Lions walk up to Brad Allen, while I have no idea what was said by them, #68 NEVER wipes down his chest which is the universal sign that I'm eligible and Brad Allen never seems to really look at either one of them anyway. However, when #70 runs onto the field (who Allen does seem to be focused on the whole time) he does put his hands up to midsection area (can't tell exactly what he did with the hands because all the videos I've seen are from his backside). Allen may have absolutely screwed up what the Lions wanted but he was pretty convinced that #70 was the one declaring himself eligible. I don't believe it was just that Allen got the numbers screwed up. But all this crap about the 2 point play being stolen is just bunk because if the Cowboys were told 70 was the one eligible then their defense would not have even worried about what 68 was doing. We don't know WHAT the result would have been had 68 been announced as eligible. And I think trying to win by somehow deceiving the defense into thinking someone is not even eligible for a pass when they actually are is chickensh*t anyway. Sort of reminds me of the crap USM tried to pull on us by having someone jump into a WR position from the sideline without ever going to the huddle. Ridiculous.

Yes. Put another way, there was likely a defender tasked with #68 who was treating him as an OT, ie a blocker to beat. If he was announced as eligible, a defender would have been tasked with treating him as a TE, ie a receiver to cover. It's no surprise that no one was covering an OT and he got open.

Detroit should have been listening to the announcement of who was eligible. They didn't. Their fault, not the refs.

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

Dan Campbell admitted yesterday that part of the play was to deliberately try to confuse the defense. That is why 3 OL ran up to the referee.
The Lions succeeded in confusing the referee.

This is why you tell the referee crew before the game, that you're running that trick play.

 

[HopInMyDakPak]

This is why you tell the referee crew before the game, that you're running that trick play.

They did tell the refs before the game and spelled out the exact play.

Fault is two fold IMO

1. Refs likely screwed up. Evidence by the league giving that group the "Angel Hernandez" treatment and leaving them out of post season reffing
2. Lions had the chance to fix it as the player was announced over the loudspeaker. Dallas heard it as they obviously covered 70 and not 68. Fail on Detriots offensive staff.

 

[maroonmania]

They did tell the refs before the game and spelled out the exact play.

Fault is two fold IMO

1. Refs likely screwed up. Evidence by the league giving that group the "Angel Hernandez" treatment and leaving them out of post season reffing
2. Lions had the chance to fix it as the player was announced over the loudspeaker. Dallas heard it as they obviously covered 70 and not 68. Fail on Detriots offensive staff.

Detroit didn't really have any options since they were out of timeouts. They had to go ahead and snap the play or would have taken a delay of game. Apparently #68 didn't have a good understanding of how to check in eligible. First, Goff had to tell him to go do it and second, he never did the jersey wipe motion to the ref which signals reporting eligible. Not sure what was said but the video is pretty clear that Allen never acknowledged #68 in any way but was looking at #70 running in who did put his arms up.

 

[tired]

Dallas most likely runs out the clock if tripping wasn't called against them. That was more of a head scratcher to me.

 

[Eleven Bravo]

Well, the first thing I noticed prior to the play being run was that over half of the Detroit OL ran over to the official at the same time. The first thing that occurred to me was that this was some type of trick about to occur. It seemed that Detroit’s game plan was based heavily upon trickery and causing confusion. Is it possible that Detroit was betting the ref would get confused and think that he had mistakenly thought that 68 was the guy who reported instead of 70? We all know that many games are decided by bad calls by the refs. I know, in this case, they had the audio and could have played it back and confirmed the call on who reported. I just sensed this air of desperation from Detroit all game long with faked punts, etc. The biggest head scratcher to me was why they didn’t just kick the extra point after they didn’t make the 2 point conversion. They could have the overtime to try to figure it out. Campbell’s behavior at the end of regulation was bizarre-especially his anger which seemed to be directed toward the Cowboys there. As far as I saw, the only thing that the Cowboys did was to eke out a 1 point win in Dallas. Disappointment, sure. Anger, though? He was hot during the press conference immediately following the game and didn’t want to answer questions about the 2 point conversion(s). Seems that the only thing he should be angry with is his own dumb ***. Kick the damn ball and play the overtime there. That’s the higher percentage call for sure

 

[She Mate Me]

My main 17'n conclusion.

Many of you really need to work on paragraphs and respecting the time and eyes of those you are trying to convince.

 

[Mr. Cook]

Dan Campbell admitted yesterday that part of the play was to deliberately try to confuse the defense. That is why 3 OL ran up to the referee.
The Lions succeeded in confusing the referee.

 

[HumpDawgy]

I just want the NFL to admit they made a mistake. Is that so hard?

 

[thekimmer]

The Lions screwed up in several ways:
1 - If might throw the ball to #68 on a conversion, don't have #70 be the eligible receiver on all your other lineman eligible plays.
2 - If you're going to throw the ball to #68 don't send 2 other linemen over with him to tell the referee #68 is eligible. And especially don't send #70 over with him. You're just risking exactly what happened, when the referee just mistakenly assumed #70 was the eligible receiver like the other plays.
3 - When the referee announces #70 over the PA system, either change the play or send #68 over to correct him.
4 - WTF were they so insistent on going for 2 in the first place? Just kick the point and play overtime. Especially when you got backed up to the 7-yard line on the penalty.

This is the right answer. Detroit decided to get cute, played with fire and got burned. Then doubled down TWICE instead of kicking the extra point and playing OT.