National Championship ROI

[onewoof]

From everything I have seen on this, the only true ROI on dropping 8 figures on your football program come if you win the national championship. While you do get a slight "brand lift" from having a good season, no one remembers the programs that did not win it all after 90 days. Saban showed this time and time again, the value of winning it all. Georgia has as well. Now Saban quits because the ridsk is too high to not win and see significatnt financial losses almost every year. No more distinct advantages to win the big one and reap the rewards.

So the question is this. If you drop $50M to $100M on your football team, make the playoffs, and do not win it all, does the ROI matter when no one remembers you. Maybe football programs will start hanging "Made the playoffs" banners.

If you do not win it all, you lost the investment.

 

[GloryDawg]

I think if you are the higher seed and get a home playoff game is huge.

 

[dorndawg]

I'd be surprised if teams didn't hang a playoffs banner. They all do it when they make the Weedwacker Bowl, and most college basketball teams do it when they make the tourney or certainly Sweet 16

 

[HumpDawgy]

I couldn't name you the last 10 national champs. Bama's in their somewhere.

 

[onewoof]

I think if you are the higher seed and get a home playoff game is huge.

Yes that will be a big home game and similar to a mini March Madness. It all comes down to the final game, and not who makes the final game, but who wins it. Only 1 team will see a true ROI. Hang all the banners you want, it is a huge financial loss to finish 2nd or 12th.

 

[Ranchdawg]

I think even winning an NC has diminishing returns. Look at FSU and Clemson as examples. You have to stay relevant year after year to get a return on your investment. People have short memories. LSU is a far cry from their NC. Bottom line, you have to have boosters willing to commit for the long haul like Ole Miss has over the last 4 years. It remains to be seen if they can sustain it.

 

[Darryl Steight]

From everything I have seen on this, the only true ROI on dropping 8 figures on your football program come if you win the national championship. While you do get a slight "brand lift" from having a good season, no one remembers the programs that did not win it all after 90 days. Saban showed this time and time again, the value of winning it all. Georgia has as well. Now Saban quits because the ridsk is too high to not win and see significatnt financial losses almost every year. No more distinct advantages to win the big one and reap the rewards.

So the question is this. If you drop $50M to $100M on your football team, make the playoffs, and do not win it all, does the ROI matter when no one remembers you. Maybe football programs will start hanging "Made the playoffs" banners.

If you do not win it all, you lost the investment.

Disagree with the last sentence. I think the answer to your question is unquestionably YES, it matters. Who cares if people in Oregon or Boston remember our record two years ago? A return is personal to each individual and to each university.

When the football team is consistently doing well (not a NC, just a "good team"), there is a ton of ROI for the University (enrollment goes up), the city (retail, restaurants, hotels, population increase so ad valorem and sales tax income increase, etc. etc.) and the alumni who have invested in the school and the city and those who choose to spend their money in this town benefit as well. There are a lot of universities and college towns that are thriving even though their team hasn't won a NC, and there's almost always a noticeable increase over time in all that activity when the team is better, or at least has the hope of getting better.

 

[aTotal360]

From everything I have seen on this, the only true ROI on dropping 8 figures on your football program come if you win the national championship. While you do get a slight "brand lift" from having a good season, no one remembers the programs that did not win it all after 90 days. Saban showed this time and time again, the value of winning it all. Georgia has as well. Now Saban quits because the ridsk is too high to not win and see significatnt financial losses almost every year. No more distinct advantages to win the big one and reap the rewards.

So the question is this. If you drop $50M to $100M on your football team, make the playoffs, and do not win it all, does the ROI matter when no one remembers you. Maybe football programs will start hanging "Made the playoffs" banners.

If you do not win it all, you lost the investment.

For MSU, the ROI will be staying with the SEC or being invited to any new mega-conference that may pop up. I know we want to say "that will never happen", but everyone will vote us off the island as soon as it makes them a lot more money. We can't take anything for granted.

 

[onewoof]

Disagree with the last sentence. I think the answer to your question is unquestionably YES, it matters. Who cares if people in Oregon or Boston remember our record two years ago? A return is personal to each individual and to each university.

When the football team is consistently doing well (not a NC, just a "good team"), there is a ton of ROI for the University (enrollment goes up), the city (retail, restaurants, hotels, population increase so ad valorem and sales tax income increase, etc. etc.) and the alumni who have invested in the school and the city and those who choose to spend their money in this town benefit as well. There are a lot of universities and college towns that are thriving even though their team hasn't won a NC, and there's almost always a noticeable increase over time in all that activity when the team is better, or at least has the hope of getting better.

Yes solid points and I agree on all. I should have stated substantial ROI, that far exceeds the 8 figure deposit.

 

[onewoof]

I think even winning an NC has diminishing returns. Look at FSU and Clemson as examples. You have to stay relevant year after year to get a return on your investment. People have short memories. LSU is a far cry from their NC. Bottom line, you have to have boosters willing to commit for the long haul like Ole Miss has over the last 4 years. It remains to be seen if they can sustain it.

It is about a 2-3 year window of reaping the rewards from enrollment, donations to the university, growth in the university buildings, sales of merchandise, etc etc. You can dump almost all the money you want to into the football program, it will be worth it, if you win it all.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Under the old system, I used to say a national title bought you some cache for about 20 years. A conference title about 5 (or maybe a playoff appearance, national title loss, etc.). A big 6 or BCS bowl win, maybe a 1 or so. When I say cache, that means you are now 'known' as that status of team. Anything helps, but no doubt a title gets you exponentially more exposure and respect.

Think about it. Even though Nebraska and Tennessee won their titles in 1998, you think thought about them as power teams until the late 2010s. Heck it even got Nebraska a B1G invite.

And of course, how fast you're forgotten also depends on what you do from there. Another example is Clemson, 20 years after their 1981 title, they were relegated, and had to build back up the hard way. But they still had that little nugget of 'hey, they could be a power program' in the back of your head.

 

[ETK99]

ROI is more than winning a title. It's school growth, fan support/buy in, and a lot of pride. If you make the playoffs, you've got a good program. I suggest we make those playoffs and see....
Because this right now sucks!

 

[onewoof]

ROI is more than winning a title. It's school growth, fan support/buy in, and a lot of pride. If you make the playoffs, you've got a good program. I suggest we make those playoffs and see....
Because this right now sucks!

Yes you have a good program, fan support, buy in, lots of pride and a good program that is losing money hand over fist. I am talking losing over $10M per year. It is only sustainable if you win it all.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

Think about it. Even though Nebraska and Tennessee won their titles in 1998, you think thought about them as power teams until the late 2010s. Heck it even got Nebraska a B1G invite.

Come on. Nebraska's championships had very little to do with their BIG invite. Nebraska had a good brand, and that brand was bolstered by its championships, but that is not what got them in the door. Academics, financial stability, alumni support...those are the factors to consider.

Nebraska wasn't even the BIG's first choice, they were just available at the right time. Their next expansion was Rutgers and Maryland.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

Yes you have a good program, fan support, buy in, lots of pride and a good program that is losing money hand over fist. I am talking losing over $10M per year. It is only sustainable if you win it all.

I'm not sure how "winning it all" makes it sustainable. There is no cash prize for winning.

College sports are operated by non profit entities that rely on charitable donations to remain afloat. Whatever profit they might generate HAS to be spent on more athletics.

As listed above, a winning sports team - particularly football - has an economic impact on the university and the community. But I don't think you need a championship to see the economic benefit. Just sustained success is usually enough.

There are several examples of rabid fan bases who support their team financially and emotionally who have never won a title, or won so long ago that no one really remembers.

 

[bulldognation]

How much mileage did we get off that SECCG appearance in '98?

We were wearing throwback unis for that team just last year.

 

[Dawgg]

I couldn't name you the last 10 national champs. Bama's in their somewhere.

That's a good challenge. I'm going to try without looking it up:
2023 - Michigan
2022 - Georgia?
2021 - Georgia?
2020 - Georgia?
2019 - LSU
2018 - Clemson?
2017 - Alabama?
2016 - Clemson?
2015 - Alabama?
2014 - Ohio State

I feel pretty good about 2023, 2019, and 2014. I feel like the rest is some kind of Alabama, Clemson, and Georgia mash up.


ETA: I went and checked. Surprisingly, the only one I got wrong was 2020. The point still stands though and there's no way I could tell you the teams that made the playoffs but didn't make it into the championship game.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Come on. Nebraska's championships had very little to do with their BIG invite. Nebraska had a good brand, and that brand was bolstered by its championships, but that is not what got them in the door. Academics, financial stability, alumni support...those are the factors to consider.

Nebraska wasn't even the BIG's first choice, they were just available at the right time. Their next expansion was Rutgers and Maryland.

They were a brand because they won titles.

 

[onewoof]

I'm not sure how "winning it all" makes it sustainable. There is no cash prize for winning.

College sports are operated by non profit entities that rely on charitable donations to remain afloat. Whatever profit they might generate HAS to be spent on more athletics.

As listed above, a winning sports team - particularly football - has an economic impact on the university and the community. But I don't think you need a championship to see the economic benefit. Just sustained success is usually enough.

There are several examples of rabid fan bases who support their team financially and emotionally who have never won a title, or won so long ago that no one really remembers.

Take a look at the return in Tuscaloosa.

And recall that when little old MSU was #1 for only 4 weeks of the regular season, enrollment increased, donations went up significantly.

Yes there are programs that are happily losing money today. But watch as the costs continue to be pushed to the consumer. What we thought we were getting never happened. But man did we pay the bills.

 

[ETK99]

Yes you have a good program, fan support, buy in, lots of pride and a good program that is losing money hand over fist. I am talking losing over $10M per year. It is only sustainable if you win it all.

It would be replenished rather quickly if we're making the playoffs. Or, schools can sit on their hands and die and move to a lower level and lose enrollment etc. There's nothing to think about here, you do it.

 

[onewoof]

It would be replenished rather quickly if we're making the playoffs. Or, schools can sit on their hands and die and move to a lower level and lose enrollment etc. There's nothing to think about here, you do it.

What's the cost and loss to be at the high stakes poker table vs just having a casino members card.

Risk vs reward will eventually rear it's only head. Unless people with silly money just like being treated like royalty at VIP University events and have their names on things. A&M and Texas don't really care about money so they are fine with overspending vs the return.

Imagine dropping $50M just to make the sweet 16 in basketball
There's going to be some real eye opening moments for many of the schools that make the 12 team playoff and realize they can't keep bank rolling this much loss.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

They were a brand because they won titles.

WRONG. For many years their brand was that they failed to win titles. There is no way that finally winning MNCs in the 90s pushed them over the top to be BIG eligible.

 

[Shane of Pisgah]

I think you're conflating ROI and memories. Whether other fanbases remember who finished 2nd or 5th or whatever has nothing to do with the ROI to those programs. I hate to use OM as an example, but they haven't won a NC, and I think it's pretty clear that their ROI on Kiffin has been profitable in terms of enrollment and impact on local businesses. The same would be true for State. If we were looking at a 10-2 or 9-3 type of season, the games would be packed, hotels and restaurants would be full, and the university would likely see increased enrollment.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

And recall that when little old MSU was #1 for only 4 weeks of the regular season, enrollment increased, donations went up significantly.

So, what you're saying is, we didn't have to win a title to see the benefits.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

WRONG. For many years their brand was that they failed to win titles. There is no way that finally winning MNCs in the 90s pushed them over the top to be BIG eligible.

You’re being a moron for the sake of being a moron. A national program is a national program, and most often that comes with national titles.

And yes, Nebraska’s run in the 90s absolutely built their brand. Weight room, walk-ons, run game, black shirts, all that was cool, but was just ‘stuff’ until it culminated with championships.

Canbyou see benefits without a title? Sure you can. Why are you trying to say somebody said otherwise? People are just saying a title equals much more notoriety.

 

[onewoof]

So, what you're saying is, we didn't have to win a title to see the benefits.

That was a decent return but times are different now. Cost vs benefit is bassackwards now and forever more

 

[Dawgzilla2]

You’re being a moron for the sake of being a moron. A national program is a national program, and most often that comes with national titles.

And yes, Nebraska’s run in the 90s absolutely built their brand. Weight room, walk-ons, run game, black shirts, all that was cool, but was just ‘stuff’ until it culminated with championships.

Canbyou see benefits without a title? Sure you can. Why are you trying to say somebody said otherwise? People are just saying a title equals much more notoriety.

No, what you said was that Nebraska got into the BIG because of their titles. That's what was moronic.

And did you READ the OP? The whole premise of the thread is that the investment is worthless unless you win a title. I personally think the expense is not worth it even if you win the title, but I don't think the math changes when you get a championship.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

That was a decent return but times are different now. Cost vs benefit is bassackwards now and forever more

Okay, but what you're saying is the cost isn't "worth it" unless you win it all. I'm just not seeing how "winning it all" makes the difference. Getting close should be good enough from a financial standpoint.

 

[BulldogBlitz]

Whatever we paid to get the baseball natty...we still paying.

 

[BhamDawg310]

Take a look at Alabama's enrollment in 2007 and in 2024. Compare it to other universities. THAT is the ROI

 

[onewoof]

Take a look at Alabama's enrollment in 2007 and in 2024. Compare it to other universities. THAT is the ROI

If we saw the total return for Bama... It's staggering. New buildings on campus. Development in Tuscaloosa. Donations to University.

 

[BhamDawg310]

If we saw the total return for Bama... It's staggering. New buildings on campus. Development in Tuscaloosa. Donations to University.

Yes, you cant just look at ROI for football success in just athletic budgets. Its the front porch to the University (and by extension Starkville itself)

 

[onewoof]

Yes, you cant just look at ROI for football success in just athletic budgets. Its the front porch to the University (and by extension Starkville itself)

I will say this. The non power 4 school with a $800K athletic budget that makes it to the playoff will see a nice lift.