National College Players Association files civil rights complaint

vacock

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Please explain.
 

IOPGCock

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Please explain.
Not sure I can explain it, but it would really beg the question of college football or basketball being able to survive.

Unless I misunderstood, it seems the group compensation models of the early NIL isn’t fair based on their position. So you’d pretty much have minor league individual compensation.
 

vacock

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Not sure I can explain it, but it would really beg the question of college football or basketball being able to survive.

Unless I misunderstood, it seems the group compensation models of the early NIL isn’t fair based on their position. So you’d pretty much have minor league individual compensation.
Could be but NIL is not controlled by schools. The article did not specifically mention NIL so I was wondering if it was based on something else. NIL hasn’t been around long enough IMHO.
 

Rogue Cock

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Not sure I can explain it, but it would really beg the question of college football or basketball being able to survive.

Unless I misunderstood, it seems the group compensation models of the early NIL isn’t fair based on their position. So you’d pretty much have minor league individual compensation.
The key phrase and the one that would be most damaging IMO: "gain employee status and fair compensation"
 

IOPGCock

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Could be but NIL is not controlled by schools. The article did not specifically mention NIL so I was wondering if it was based on something else. NIL hasn’t been around long enough IMHO.
Interesting point. Makes it an even bigger deal if you’re right.
 
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Fowlmoodin99

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This is above and beyond NIL. This is simply pay for players it seems. And, the supposed collusion is on no pay at all. Imagine if in declaring the collusion must end, what would be left would probably require a whole new spate of lawsuits.

Once players are declared employees, game over.
 

IOPGCock

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This is above and beyond NIL. This is simply pay for players it seems. And, the supposed collusion is on no pay at all. Imagine if in declaring the collusion must end, what would be left would probably require a whole new spate of lawsuits.

Once players are declared employees, game over.
Yep. And as an employer, especially these days, there would be massive risk evaluation for what that would entail to say employee 85 football players. Hard to believe at least at this point that universities would go down that road. This will be interesting to watch.
 
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Rogue Cock

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This is above and beyond NIL. This is simply pay for players it seems. And, the supposed collusion is on no pay at all. Imagine if in declaring the collusion must end, what would be left would probably require a whole new spate of lawsuits.

Once players are declared employees, game over.
BINGO!!!
 

Rogue Cock

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Yep. And as an employer, especially these days, there would be massive risk evaluation for what that would entail to say employee 85 football players. Hard to believe at least at this point that universities would go down that road. This will be interesting to watch.
Not only that but it would also not be amateur....which means all the money generated is no longer tax-exempt and neither are any contributions tax-deductible. The employment laws would be even more onerous.
 

Fowlmoodin99

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And since you have no collusion, schools would be able to pay different amounts, especially if there was no collective bargaining agreement. The downstream is a torrent of actions and legal rulings which would decimate any last shred of competitive "college" sports.
 

Thomas_Shelby

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Nowhere in the article did the author explain how black athletes weren't getting fair market pay. Nor did it explain what fair market pay was. Either this is just a frivolous lawsuit to make headlines and make people upset about nothing, or this author is just really bad at explaining things. Either way it's just more of the same these days.
 

Rogue Cock

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Nowhere in the article did the author explain how black athletes weren't getting fair market pay. Nor did it explain what fair market pay was. Either this is just a frivolous lawsuit to make headlines and make people upset about nothing, or this author is just really bad at explaining things. Either way it's just more of the same these days.
It is simply the vehicle being used....the civil rights amendments are very broad....the result will impact all athletes regardless of color. It is a smart tactic, similar to when the women's track team at Clemson used a threat to sue the school under Title IX for its decision to cut the men's team because it tangentially impacted them.....Clemson backed off. Smart legal tactic....and it worked. Don't miss the forest for the trees.
 
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Thomas_Shelby

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It is simply the vehicle being used....the civil rights amendments are very broad....the result will impact all athletes regardless of color. It is a smart tactic, similar to when the women's track team at Clemson used a threat to sue the school under Title IX for its decision to cut the men's team because it tangentially impacted them.....Clemson backed off. Smart legal tactic....and it worked. Don't miss the forest for the trees.
Nice reply. But nowhere do you explain how black athletes aren't getting fair market pay. Nor did you explain what fair market pay is. You just threw some **** up on the wall and you hope something sticks.
 

Rogue Cock

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Nice reply. But nowhere do you explain how black athletes aren't getting fair market pay. Nor did you explain what fair market pay is. You just threw some **** up on the wall and you hope something sticks.
You'd have to read the complaint. I don't know what particular issues they are alleging....and it really doesn't make a difference. The Amendments are B-R-O-A-D. And it isn't some *****. You are way too focused on the trees.

And here is the basis of their argument....gift-wrapped with a bow and handed to them by a Supreme Court Justice: "The NCPA says its position is bolstered by U.S. Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh's opinion in the NCAA v. Alston lawsuit, which stated in part, "... the NCAA and its member colleges are suppressing the pay of student athletes who collectively generate billions of dollars in revenues for colleges every year ... But the student athletes who generate the revenues, many of whom are African American and from lower-income backgrounds, end up with little or nothing."" You can spin gold from straw with those words.
 
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TN-Gamecock

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Sure college athletics (Football & Basketball) are big business...but I thought the scholarship was the athletes payment.

For the athlete your compensation should be the degree you work for. If you don't play sports, you pay to go to school (or academic scholarships)

The can of worms has been opened. College athletics will soon be on the verge of collapse. Why? Because the pie will not be big enough to support all sports that most universities have. The lower divisions are going to have a rough go of it... (Furman, Wofford, Davidson, etc).

Maybe one day, there will be only student athletes who participate because of the love of the universities (amateurs/clubs) and our the schools will go back to being academic institutions only. I can see this coming.

Minor league Football may come to pass for high school athletes...
 

Rogue Cock

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Sure college athletics (Football & Basketball) are big business...but I thought the scholarship was the athletes payment.

For the athlete your compensation should be the degree you work for. If you don't play sports, you pay to go to school (or academic scholarships)

The can of worms has been opened. College athletics will soon be on the verge of collapse. Why? Because the pie will not be big enough to support all sports that most universities have. The lower divisions are going to have a rough go of it... (Furman, Wofford, Davidson, etc).

Maybe one day, there will be only student athletes who participate because of the love of the universities (amateurs/clubs) and our the schools will go back to being academic institutions only. I can see this coming.

Minor league Football may come to pass for high school athletes...
Completely agree.
 
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Thomas_Shelby

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You'd have to read the complaint. I don't know what particular issues they are alleging....and it really doesn't make a difference.

This translates to you haven't read the complaint, and neither did the author. This means you don't know what you are talking about. You are throwing **** against the wall and hope some of it sticks. You are no better than the author. You may be the author.
 
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Rogue Cock

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This translates to you haven't read the complaint, and neither did the author. This means you don't know what you are talking about. You are throwing **** against the wall and hope some of it sticks. You are no better than the author. You may be the author.
LMAO....okie-dokie, if you so insist. LOL.
 
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IOPGCock

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It is simply the vehicle being used....the civil rights amendments are very broad....the result will impact all athletes regardless of color. It is a smart tactic, similar to when the women's track team at Clemson used a threat to sue the school under Title IX for its decision to cut the men's team because it tangentially impacted them.....Clemson backed off. Smart legal tactic....and it worked. Don't miss the forest for the trees.
Exactly.
 
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IOPGCock

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Nice reply. But nowhere do you explain how black athletes aren't getting fair market pay. Nor did you explain what fair market pay is. You just threw some **** up on the wall and you hope something sticks.
Obviously you haven’t been sued very often. This is how it works. Trust me on that. Usually something sticks enough despite the original complaint.

I don’t like this as much as I have not liked being sued, but this is the legal system we have.
 

IOPGCock

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Sure college athletics (Football & Basketball) are big business...but I thought the scholarship was the athletes payment.

For the athlete your compensation should be the degree you work for. If you don't play sports, you pay to go to school (or academic scholarships)

The can of worms has been opened. College athletics will soon be on the verge of collapse. Why? Because the pie will not be big enough to support all sports that most universities have. The lower divisions are going to have a rough go of it... (Furman, Wofford, Davidson, etc).

Maybe one day, there will be only student athletes who participate because of the love of the universities (amateurs/clubs) and our the schools will go back to being academic institutions only. I can see this coming.

Minor league Football may come to pass for high school athletes...
So this is an interesting post. I think you’re right FWIW if the NCAA loses this.

I’ve unfortunately been through a lot in my career where at 42 years old my industry began feeling the unintended consequences of earlier eras in my industry coming home to roost. Kind of a left holding the bag for something you weren’t a part of situation. Therefore at 42 I’m always thinking about unintended consequences.

If this were to prevail somehow, you can trace the roots directly to the 80s when Oklahoma and Georgia sued for TV rights. TV rights brought the dollars that paid the big coaches salaries and paid for the facilities arms race etc. Unintended consequence is perhaps a rightful jealousy. Muschamp gets $13 million to get fired but as a player generating the $13 million what do I get?

Right or wrong, greed entered college athletics. Greed always spawns resentment. Alas, here we are and the future could possibly hinge on this case. I fear though that even if this case fails, enough will behind it and will eventually prevail.
 
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Thomas_Shelby

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Obviously you haven’t been sued very often. This is how it works. Trust me on that. Usually something sticks enough despite the original complaint.

I don’t like this as much as I have not liked being sued, but this is the legal system we have.

I don't get sued very often you are right about that. But I also know a shake down when I see it. And this is a shake down. You're response is just added proof to that. Keep on suing lizards.
 

IOPGCock

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I don't get sued very often you are right about that. But I also know a shake down when I see it. And this is a shake down. You're response is just added proof to that. Keep on suing lizards.
I don’t disagree about shakedowns. I don’t disagree with where you’re coming from. I was once personally named (as an executive) in a reverse sexual discrimination lawsuit. By that I mean I had personal liability not that I was involved. And the suit revolved around a guy claiming he got unwanted oral sex from a woman. Seriously?

We had a good deal on our side but perhaps not enough on our side to get the suit dismissed. So between the company defending itself and paying other lawyers to defend the executives, we faced $300,000 to go to trial and “win” or $50,000 to settle. What do think we chose?

Our civil court system is a mess. Even when you win you often lose. You don’t have to like it and I certainly don’t like it, but unless it changes it’s what you’ve got.

Smart plaintiffs lawyers spray a gun at the wall knowing something likely results in a trial and that the defendant will settle due to basic math. In my experience frivolous lawsuits are not as common as we perceive them to be. What may appear frivolous actually has merit based on regulatory violations that most entities do not intentionally violate but are regulatory violations nonetheless.

Was sued once by a retired lawyer. In his garage he had as many as 200 cell phones with different numbers. He was banking on the fact that 10% of these 200 cell phones would get telemarketing or debt collector calls. Based on the statutes of that state the onus was on the telemarketing company or the debt collector to know when a person changed numbers. So by statute we were in violation and by statute a judge could not dismiss the case.

The guy sued us 3 times before we figured out the angle.

All I’m saying is, the rules of the game are the rules of the game. I don’t like it, but on the surface this lawsuit seems effective.

Don’t like it? Vote differently.
 

IOPGCock

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That's where you lost me. I didn't read another word.
Umkay then. Seems logical to stop reading something you admit not to have much personal experience in. Especially when I agree with where you’re coming from. But you know, whatever and stuff.
 
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TN-Gamecock

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but as a player generating the $13 million what do I get?
A college education, food, books...a chance to later take a job that could pay that...

An institution of higher learning is being prostituted for quick bucks in sports.

I maybe in the minority here but I would love to see our new President get us up in the Academic Rankings...Last report UT went ahead of us...Vandy, UF, A&M, UGA, and UT are ranked ahead of us academically...I get Vandy & even UF but come on there was a time when we were on par with UGA and ahead of UT...A&M has always been well thought of in academic circles....
 
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IOPGCock

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A college education, food, books...a chance to later take a job that could pay that...

An institution of higher learning is being prostituted for quick bucks in sports.

I maybe in the minority here but I would love to see our new President get us up in the Academic Rankings...Last report UT went ahead of us...Vandy, UF, A&M, UGA, and UT are ranked ahead of us academically...I get Vandy & even UF but come on there was a time when we were on par with UGA and ahead of UT...A&M has always been well thought of in academic circles....
I feel similar. Just saying I get the argument.
 
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IOPGCock

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Do they really realize what they are asking for to be designated and treated as employees?
Doubtful, but then again they’d be government employees soooo….

And to be clear I’m not picking on government employees I’m picking on bureaucratic government employers.
 
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USCBatgirl21

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Doubtful, but then again they’d be government employees soooo….

And to be clear I’m not picking on government employees I’m picking on bureaucratic government employers.
If they are worried about compensation, being a government employee is not the place to be.
Now the benefits - heck yeah. But I don't think they are thinking about those.
 
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IOPGCock

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If they are worried about compensation, being a government employee is not the place to be.
Now the benefits - heck yeah. But I don't think they are thinking about those.
Unless it’s on Tik Tok you’re most likely right. But lots of job security…rarely does anyone get fired. This is nuts, but I could see this or another case eventually prevailing.

I will say what they see is coach and admin salaries. Chadwell at Coastal gets $375,000 directly from the state. Seems a slippery slope.

For instance each position in each sport would have a preapproved salary range like all other state job openings. It would be a nightmare.
 

USCBatgirl21

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Unless it’s on Tik Tok you’re most likely right. But lots of job security…rarely does anyone get fired. This is nuts, but I could see this or another case eventually prevailing.

I will say what they see is coach and admin salaries. Chadwell at Coastal gets $375,000 directly from the state. Seems a slippery slope.

For instance each position in each sport would have a preapproved salary range like all other state job openings. It would be a nightmare.
Exactly. One will eventually prevail and completely demolish college sports. And not just football and basketball. This has far reaching consequences that they aren't taking into account.
 

Tupacaintdead

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Schools need to get back to education and not be a sports Mecca. I love my football, but tell these entitled coaches and kids to kick rocks, and I can live with watching flag football and whatever is on campus these kids play……JUST FOR FUN! This has gotten out of hand
 
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18IsTheMan

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I was gonna say, at this point, I'd be fine if schools just said "forget it" and shut down college football for a bit. Just do a reset.
 
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