No matter what you think of the hire...

[anon1758050382]

...our commitment to NIL will largely determine the success or failure of Lebby.

4+ star players by position	Oklahoma	State
OL	9	2
QB	1 (5-star)	1
RB	5	2
TE	2	3
WR	7	5

And as far as the increase in the competition, the 9th best recruiter in the new 16-team SEC is Auburn. The 9th best recruiter in the Big XII in 2023 was UCF.

If we give Lebby a $20mm contract and don't commit to NIL, we are setting $20mm on fire, and we'll be right back in this position in a few years.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

I made a similar comment days ago about Lebby and 450 yards a game. Of course he averages 450 a game. Name the last Oklahoma OC that didn't. It's Oklahoma ffs. Great players and in a conference that barely plays defense. But you can't tell these folks nothin

 

[Conman90]

I'm not disagreeing on the NIL front, but Lebby has had top ranked offenses at UCF and Ole Miss as OC and was part of the Baylor turnaround. This ain't his first rodeo. He's done it at other schools. This offense will put up points with the talent we historically have gotten.

 

[dog99walker]

Y’all are coming round to the post I put up a week ago. Wherever Lebby has been, they moved the ball. While we are at it, ask Muschamp to come out of retirement. He can coach defense, but like Arnett, he couldn’t do both.

 

[ababyatemydingo]

I would love muschamp as DC, but he ain't leaving UGA. He makes more there than we could pay him, and it's his Alma mater, he's coaching the position group that he played at UGA, he's from Rome, GA, and there's some other things that keeps him in GA. He ain't leaving GA. He's comfortable , has low stress, and has plenty of money.

 

[anon1758050382]

I'm not disagreeing on the NIL front, but Lebby has had top ranked offenses at UCF and Ole Miss as OC and was part of the Baylor turnaround. This ain't his first rodeo. He's done it at other schools. This offense will put up points with the talent we historically have gotten.

UCF was the top recruiter in the American.

Kiffin is behind the offense at Ole Miss, not Lebby or Weis, Jr. Their offensive production didn’t change with a new OC.

Lebby was never OC at Baylor.

This is an extremely risky hire imo. It could work if we commit to NIL. If we don’t, there is zero chance it works.

 

[8dog]

UCF was the top recruiter in the American.

Kiffin is behind the offense at Ole Miss, not Lebby or Weis, Jr. Their offensive production didn’t change with a new OC.

Lebby was never OC at Baylor.

This is an extremely risky hire imo. It could work if we commit to NIL. If we don’t, there is zero chance it works.

World’s luckiest OC. Just keeps falling backwards into great offenses.

Every hire is a big risk.

 

[Conman90]

If you didn't see the difference at OM between Lebby and Weiss I can't help you. Yes it is Kiffins offense, but they did fall off between 21 and 22. Got it back this year, but didn't score like they did in 21, nor did they play nearly as fast.

Yeah UCF recruited well, and some of that was Lebby (Dillon Gabriel ring a bell). But they had highs under Lebby and Heupel they haven't had under Malzahn.

Bottom line is Lebby is a top OC in the country and has proven this at multiple stops. There are always risks with any new coaching hire, but I have no doubt we will score points with Lebby at the helm. Something most people have been clamoring for for years. This ain't your dad's MSU anymore.

 

[FlotownDawg]

Lebby has more offensive coordinator experience than Dan Mullen did when we hired Mullen. Mullen had been QB coach for Urban Meyer at Bowling Green and Utah, but wasn’t promoted to OC until 2005 at Florida. Lebby has six years of OC experience at multiple schools. At all of those schools, he has had one of the top offenses in the nation. I’m excited about the hire.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

...our commitment to NIL will largely determine the success or failure of Lebby.

4+ star players by position	Oklahoma	State
OL	9	2
QB	1 (5-star)	1
RB	5	2
TE	2	3
WR	7	5

And as far as the increase in the competition, the 9th best recruiter in the new 16-team SEC is Auburn. The 9th best recruiter in the Big XII in 2023 was UCF.

If we give Lebby a $20mm contract and don't commit to NIL, we are setting $20mm on fire, and we'll be right back in this position in a few years.

Nothing has really changed with NIL in the SEC. The same teams that were getting 5 star guys still will. Lebby at least gives us a shot at guys that aren't 100% about the money. I saw our recruiting with a pathetic staff this year. It goes nowhere but up now.

 

[anon1758050382]

If you didn't see the difference at OM between Lebby and Weiss I can't help you. Yes it is Kiffins offense, but they did fall off between 22 and 22. Got it back this year, but didn't score like they did in 21, nor did they play nearly as fast.

SEC games only, Ole Miss was #2 in yards/game in 2021 and 2022.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Where is the $20 million number coming from? That’s $5 million per year - which is what we were paying Leach who had a 20-year track record as a head coach coming in.

If that’s his salary, I can guarantee you we are absolutely going to be setting it on fire, because there’s going to be absolutely nothing left over for NIL, assistants, or raises for Lebby if he actually does well for the first year or two. One of the hugest perks of hiring a coordinator is that they are cheaper. This would be a massive mistake if those figures are accurate.

 

[Perd Hapley]

UCF was the top recruiter in the American.

Kiffin is behind the offense at Ole Miss, not Lebby or Weis, Jr. Their offensive production didn’t change with a new OC.

Lebby was never OC at Baylor.

This is an extremely risky hire imo. It could work if we commit to NIL. If we don’t, there is zero chance it works.

I think Lebby was more involved at OM than you think. This was covered yesterday in another thread. Otherwise, I agree.

It doesn’t matter who the hire is at the end of the day if we don’t commit to NIL. It’s not working. That’s not a problem that is specific to Lebby. Saban wouldn’t even get to 6-6 here in 3 years with our current NIL commitment.

 

[anon1758050382]

Where is the $20 million number coming from? That’s $5 million per year - which is what we were paying Leach who had a 20-year track record as a head coach coming in.

If that’s his salary, I can guarantee you we are absolutely going to be setting it on fire, because there’s going to be absolutely nothing left over for NIL, assistants, or raises for Lebby if he actually does well. One of the hugest perks of hiring a coordinator is that they are cheaper. This would be a massive mistake if those figures are accurate.

I’m not claiming that number is accurate. My point is you can’t turn a program around by firing and hiring coaches any more. There has to be NIL commitment.


ETA: I think Lebby was making close to $2mm at Oklahoma. He wouldn’t leave without a significant raise.

 

[mcdawg22]

That chart show us as having the more talented TEs.

 

[Perd Hapley]

I’m not claiming that number is accurate. My point is you can’t turn a program around by firing and hiring coaches any more. There has to be NIL commitment.

View attachment 459648
ETA: I think Lebby was making close to $2mm at Oklahoma. He wouldn’t leave without a significant raise.

He was making $1.9 million at Oklahoma. $3.5 - $4 million would be a significant raise. $5 - $6 million starting out would be significantly overpaying and would be galactically stupid, as Lt. Daniel Kaffee would say. I’m fine with him getting much more friendly buyout terms than Arnett, but in no way should we be starting him at $5 - $6 million.

 

[mcdawg22]

Where is the $20 million number coming from? That’s $5 million per year - which is what we were paying Leach who had a 20-year track record as a head coach coming in.

If that’s his salary, I can guarantee you we are absolutely going to be setting it on fire, because there’s going to be absolutely nothing left over for NIL, assistants, or raises for Lebby if he actually does well for the first year or two. One of the hugest perks of hiring a coordinator is that they are cheaper. This would be a massive mistake if those figures are accurate.

I heard 6 per year. It’s the price of poker these days. It’s anticipated that every SEC school is going to be getting at least 10 million more a year from TV revenue. I think that’s why you are seeing schools push NIL. TV will take care of coaches salaries. My opinion is if Lebby does bring an exciting offense the ROI is good. If 5000 people buy season tickets because we are fun to watch. That’s an extra million dollars right there. Not to mention with all of the shifting in CFB it’s probably a good idea to put a product out there that is fun to watch on TV so we are marketable in the new landscape.

 

[Duggar Hall Desk]

Nobody knows how this hire will shake out. If we'd hired someone with HC experience, no one knows how that would shake out. Like the hiring of Arnett and Leach and Morehead and Mullen, I'm going to give the new coach a chance to prove himself and go from there.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

He was making $1.9 million at Oklahoma. $3.5 - $4 million would be a significant raise. $5 - $6 million starting out would be significantly overpaying and would be galactically stupid, as Lt. Daniel Kaffee would say. I’m fine with him getting much more friendly buyout terms than Arnett, but in no way should we be starting him at $5 - $6 million.

It’s not really stupid now. That’s just where the salaries are.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

I heard 6 per year. It’s the price of poker these days. It’s anticipated that every SEC school is going to be getting at least 10 million more a year from TV revenue. I think that’s why you are seeing schools push NIL. TV will take care of coaches salaries. My opinion is if Lebby does bring an exciting offense the ROI is good. If 5000 people buy season tickets because we are fun to watch. That’s an extra million dollars right there. Not to mention with all of the shifting in CFB it’s probably a good idea to put a product out there that is fun to watch on TV so we are marketable in the new landscape.

I believe it's going to be less

 

[PK Dawg]

I heard 6 per year. It’s the price of poker these days. It’s anticipated that every SEC school is going to be getting at least 10 million more a year from TV revenue. I think that’s why you are seeing schools push NIL. TV will take care of coaches salaries. My opinion is if Lebby does bring an exciting offense the ROI is good. If 5000 people buy season tickets because we are fun to watch. That’s an extra million dollars right there. Not to mention with all of the shifting in CFB it’s probably a good idea to put a product out there that is fun to watch on TV so we are marketable in the new landscape.

Season tix cost $200?

 

[Perd Hapley]

It’s not really stupid now. That’s just where the salaries are.

Drinkwitz came in making $4 million. Clark Lea $3 million. Sam Pittman $3 million. Shane Beamer $2.75 million. Arnett $3 million. Those hires all happened in the past 1-3 years…..all had roughly the same or slightly worse resume as Lebby does now.

$6 million is fine as a Year 2 raise if he gets us to 7-5 or better next year…that’s what happened with Beamer and Drink. But I don’t see why you go that big on the front end, especially if you’re also committing to a full contract value buyout.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

Money is the big winner so we have to crank up the NIL to give the man a chance to play the upcoming bidding game in recruiting. I may not care for the problems that are coming alongside the NIL but at least it makes pay for play legal for everyone somewhat.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Drinkwitz came in making $4 million. Clark Lea $3 million. Sam Pittman $3 million. Shane Beamer $2.75 million. Arnett $3 million. Those hires all happened in the past 1-3 years…..all had roughly the same or slightly worse resume as Lebby does now.

$6 million is fine as a Year 2 raise if he gets us to 7-5 or better next year…that’s what happened with Beamer and Drink. But I don’t see why you go that big on the front end, especially if you’re also committing to a full contract value buyout.

Uh, Arnett barely had a resume at all. Lebby's resume is 10x better.

 

[L4Dawg]

NIL hasn't changed college football as much as you think. It has always gone on to a certain extent, and the big boys doing it then are the same as the big boys doing it now. The bigger change is the transfer portal. Transferring without having to sit out a year has changed everything.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Uh, Arnett barely had a resume at all. Lebby's resume is 10x better.

It’s for sure better, but I don’t know about “10x better”. Arnett had 5 years coordinator experience - 3 in the SEC. Lebby has 5 years coordinator experience, 2 in the SEC and 2 in the Big 12.

It’s largely better because he’s done it at more stops, and because I would say his SEC offenses performed at a slightly higher level than Arnett’s SEC defenses. But its not some huge gap that warrants doubling his starting salary from what we gave Arnett. I would be very, very surprised if we are paying more than $4.5 million per year starting out.

 

[Drebin]

UCF was the top recruiter in the American.

Kiffin is behind the offense at Ole Miss, not Lebby or Weis, Jr. Their offensive production didn’t change with a new OC.

Lebby was never OC at Baylor.

This is an extremely risky hire imo. It could work if we commit to NIL. If we don’t, there is zero chance it works.

Good lord this is stupid.

is it your take that Lebby has just been lucky in all those spots?

 

[mcdawg22]

Drinkwitz came in making $4 million. Clark Lea $3 million. Sam Pittman $3 million. Shane Beamer $2.75 million. Arnett $3 million. Those hires all happened in the past 1-3 years…..all had roughly the same or slightly worse resume as Lebby does now.

$6 million is fine as a Year 2 raise if he gets us to 7-5 or better next year…that’s what happened with Beamer and Drink. But I don’t see why you go that big on the front end, especially if you’re also committing to a full contract value buyout.

Okay we aren’t going to discuss Lea and Arnett. One is Vanderbilt and one was basically a trial run because of extraordinary circumstances.
So Drinkwicz went from 750,009 to 4 mil so almost quintuple. Pittman went from 900 to 3 so triple to go from position coach to be at his alma mater.
Lastly 6 million a year would be 7th in the SEC in 2020 when they were hired. In 2023 it’s gonna be 15th when Sark and Drink get their raises.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

I think if he gets Littrell or Kendall to come with him the offense will pop.

 

[Will Rogers.sixpack]

Lebby has more offensive coordinator experience than Dan Mullen did when we hired Mullen. Mullen had been QB coach for Urban Meyer at Bowling Green and Utah, but wasn’t promoted to OC until 2005 at Florida. Lebby has six years of OC experience at multiple schools. At all of those schools, he has had one of the top offenses in the nation. I’m excited about the hire.

Dan also learned under Meyer and put a huge emphasis on his strength and conditioning coach hire and defensive recruitment. Not to mention you don’t understand the history and origin behind the Meyer/Mullen offense system. Mullen was a huge part of originating their offense and scripting the plays at both bowling green and Utah.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Okay we aren’t going to discuss Lea and Arnett. One is Vanderbilt and one was basically a trial run because of extraordinary circumstances.
So Drinkwicz went from 750,009 to 4 mil so almost quintuple. Pittman went from 900 to 3 so triple to go from position coach to be at his alma mater.
Lastly 6 million a year would be 7th in the SEC in 2020 when they were hired. In 2023 it’s gonna be 15th when Sark and Drink get their raises.

Except everyone in the league besides our coach will have HC experience / success (asssuming that A&M hires some current HC).

I will say that I’m more on board with a higher salary for Lebby if he is his own OC. That can be either directly like Leach was, or indirectly like Mullen was, where he had jabronis like Koenning / Gonzalez under him with a faux OC title.

 

[dawgstudent]

NIL hasn't changed college football as much as you think. It has always gone on to a certain extent, and the big boys doing it then are the same as the big boys doing it now. The bigger change is the transfer portal. Transferring without having to sit out a year has changed everything.

100%. Transfer rule is the game changer. NIL is just a “legal” way to pay recruits.

 

[Perd Hapley]

100%. Transfer rule is the game changer. NIL is just a “legal” way to pay recruits.

They go hand-in-hand, though. Transfer portal lets the open bidding occur every year. And the open bidding replacing the previous cloak-and-dagger quid pro quo system has driven the prices way up by bringing in a lot of new financiers that didn’t want to get their hands dirty in the old system. It is now much, much more costly to bring in and retain high level recruiting classes than it was even 3 years ago. There’s absolutely no debating that.

At the end of the day, we’ve got to at least be able to pull high 4* and 5* players out of the Mississippi high school ranks, like we did dozens of times under the old system. We’ve yet to prove that we can do it under the current system.

 

[anon1758050382]

Good lord this is stupid.

is it your take that Lebby has just been lucky in all those spots?

No. Where did you get that?

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

We have three 4-star tight ends? We must be getting a thousand yards of offense from them each season.

 

[Drebin]

No. Where did you get that?

You obviously went out of your way to explain away Lebby's previous successes. Don't go and play dumb now.

 

[anon1758050382]

You obviously went out of your way to explain away Lebby's previous successes. Don't go and play dumb now.

I'm not explaining away his success. I'm pointing out how different those situations were from being the State HC.

All hires involve evaluating a proven track record and projecting future success. This one is almost entirely a projection imo. It doesn't mean it won't work, but it is significantly more risky than someone with a track record of success at a program without recruiting advantages.

And for all I know, all the candidates with more relevant experience said No, and Lebby is the best possible hire. So if he's the guy, he has my support. I'm stressing that NIL is a prerequisite for his success. My guess is Lebby would agree.

 

[anon1758050382]

NIL hasn't changed college football as much as you think. It has always gone on to a certain extent, and the big boys doing it then are the same as the big boys doing it now. The bigger change is the transfer portal. Transferring without having to sit out a year has changed everything.

I agree that immediate eligibility is the problem in college sports that needs to be fixed, but NIL has definitely changed the landscape of pay-for-play.

I never paid for a player under the table in the pre-NIL era. But I give to the Bulldog Initiative. That is true for most supporters of the Bulldog Initiative. It is also true for most supporters of NIL efforts at all 16 SEC schools.

So yes, there were already the haves and have-nots before NIL. But some programs/fanbases are more committed to NIL than others. I'm not saying we have to have as many 5-stars as Georgia. But we must commit to NIL and be extremely efficient in this new era.