Offense vs. Defense Recruits

Sep 11, 2019
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What's the deal?

Is the facts that Lebby is an offensive guru and we have a no-name defensive staff the reasons we seem to be able to pile up skill position players but can't hold any defensive players attention?

I feel like we're about to become 2020 OM: score 40/game with no defense. That would be bizarro world.

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patdog

Well-known member
May 28, 2007
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I don't think our coach cares much about defense and wants to play a lot of 45-40 games. Or at least wants to be sure the offense looks good even if the defense has to suffer for it. And for the record, Mississippi was 5-5 against an all SEC schedule in 2020. If we go 4-4 in the SEC and give up 40 points per game, I'm OK with that.
 

Mjoelner

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Sep 2, 2006
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I don't think our coach cares much about defense and wants to play a lot of 45-40 games. Or at least wants to be sure the offense looks good even if the defense has to suffer for it. And for the record, Mississippi was 5-5 against an all SEC schedule in 2020. If we go 4-4 in the SEC and give up 40 points per game, I'm OK with that.
Agree.

If the offense shows improvement this year and its clearly visible that we have playmakers at different positions, I'm sure you'll see a concentration on defense next year. During Arizona's bowl game the announcer quoted Jed Fisch as saying "Nobody, not even defensive players, wants to come play for a team that doesn't score any points."
 

patdog

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May 28, 2007
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Agree.

If the offense shows improvement this year and its clearly visible that we have playmakers at different positions, I'm sure you'll see a concentration on defense next year. During Arizona's bowl game the announcer quoted Jed Fisch as saying "Nobody, not even defensive players, wants to come play for a team that doesn't score any points."
I HOPE you are correct. I have my doubts about us ever concentrating on defense again any time soon.
 

Rupert Jenkins

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Nov 29, 2017
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I HOPE you are correct. I have my doubts about us ever concentrating on defense again any time soon.
I'm sure eventually he will realize this is not the Big 12 and add some pieces. But how long will that take ? Idk. Hopefully by this spring. He promised exciting football so we can't beat everybody 43 to 10. Gotta let them stay close.
 
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POTUS

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Sep 29, 2022
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Can't build a program on defense first. Even Saban has capitulated on that. Players want to the notoriety and teams that win like Iowa don't get it. You can build a good defense off of several years of good offensive performance, which is what Ole Miss is currently trying to do.
 

WilCoDawg

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Sep 6, 2012
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Can't build a program on defense first. Even Saban has capitulated on that. Players want to the notoriety and teams that win like Iowa don't get it. You can build a good defense off of several years of good offensive performance, which is what Ole Miss is currently trying to do.
Seems like we’d be able to do in the opposite order though given we’ve had great defenses in the past and the O was the missing piece.
 

maroonmadman

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Nov 7, 2010
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Scoring in single digits is certainly underwhelming. I'll take the offense.
 

OG Goat Holder

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Sep 30, 2022
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Can't build a program on defense first. Even Saban has capitulated on that. Players want to the notoriety and teams that win like Iowa don't get it. You can build a good defense off of several years of good offensive performance, which is what Ole Miss is currently trying to do.
I don't know about this. People try and make these general statements, but Danny built the defense first, and that worked for us. I think the key to that is to at least be competent on offense.

Either way, I won't say we CAN'T build a high-flying offensive team here, it's just never really been done. Even Leach appeared to dial back the Air Raid to a more slow-moving entity, which ultimately probably would have worked well for us, pared with a good defense. He knew the importance of that, which is why we got Arnett.
 

POTUS

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Seems like we’d be able to do in the opposite order though given we’ve had great defenses in the past and the O was the missing piece.
If anything, our history backs up my argument. How many times have we said, “Why can’t we get an elite WR to MSU?” They want to play for a system that shows them off. If you’re winning with defense they just look elsewhere, even if your win total is higher than other schools. Just look at how many elite WR Ole Miss has put in the league while we were beating them on the field and in the win column.
 
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OG Goat Holder

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Seems like we’d be able to do in the opposite order though given we’ve had great defenses in the past and the O was the missing piece.
If anything, our history backs up my argument. How many times have we said, “Why can’t we get an elite WR to MSU?” They want to play for a system that shows them off. If you’re winning with defense they just look elsewhere, even if your win total is higher than other schools. Just look at how many elite WR Ole Miss has put in the league while we were beating them on the field and in the win column.
The key here is which one wins the most games, for the longest time? Let's look at our history:

- To me, Jackie was more of a CEO/recruiter type coach who delegated most things. Great talker/speaker, dude ran all types of offenses/defenses. He was good about handling the program and some of the problem guys we took in order to get the talent level up.
- Danny was more of what I call fundamental, which consists of guys who come up with an offensive or defensive coordinator background, with some type of expertise. Obviously he produced our best QB ever, as that was his niche.
- Leach was what I call a system coach, who obviously just completely envelopes themselves around a (almost exclusively offensive) scheme. It worked with average players and was getting better.

We've tried all the above, and had success, except a fundamental defensive coach. I'm intrigued by this since defense has always been MSU's calling card. We are DLU. Most all of our best players, best wins, and best seasons have revolved around ferocious defense. The state of MS tends to produce a lot of good defensive athletes.

Of course, if you look at the theme between Jackie, Danny and Leach - it's one key thing - control of the program. Discipline, whatever you want to call it. When all of those guys lose that, things start to splinter. That's what Croom and Moorhead couldn't do. And I've heard that Lebby is a player's coach, more like the latter two, and butted heads with Venables at OU. That does concern me.

But speaking specifically about WRs, yes, that is a concern. But to me, if you lean on your strength, stay consistent, you eventually get to the point where you start landing players all over.
 

BonzoGoesToCollege

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Aug 24, 2012
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I'm sure eventually he will realize this is not the Big 12 and add some pieces. But how long will that take ? Idk. Hopefully by this spring. He promised exciting football so we can't beat everybody 43 to 10. Gotta let them stay close.
Lincoln Riley hasn't figured it out after year 2. This makes me nervous about what Lebby will do on the defensive side.
 

uptowndawg

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Jul 15, 2010
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We need to turn heads right now. Especially in the day of free transfers. Offense turns heads and attracts players on both sides and at all experience levels. If Lebby can establish himself as a decent HC then we will be able to attract a better DC and start building... But and offensive HC cant establish himself as a HC with staying power without building the best offense he can as early as he can.

Defense is where my heart is, but the current focus makes sense for where we are and who we just hired.
 
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OG Goat Holder

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2022
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We need to turn heads right now. Especially in the day of free transfers. Offense turns heads and attracts players on both sides and at all experience levels. If Lebby can establish himself as a decent HC then we will be able to attract a better DC and start building... But and offensive HC cant establish himself as a HC with staying power without building the best offense he can as early as her can.

Defense is where my heart is, but the current focus makes sense for where we are and who we just hired.
Yeah, makes sense for where the program is right now.

The perfect time to hire a defensive guy would have been after Mullen left. Any of them with intelligence would have left that offense alone and just rolled. And I'm talking about a seasoned coordinator, not a rookie. I've said before I would have been fine with Grantham, he would have been head and shoulders above Moorhead or Arnett.

Still infuriates me watching us try to throw the ball in the rain vs. Kentucky, and watching Mullen just continually scheme us up vs. Florida. All we had to do was run over both of them. You know, experienced/old OL and the SEC's leading rushing QB? And don't get me started on this idiotic playing of Hill over Aeris.
 
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WilCoDawg

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If anything, our history backs up my argument. How many times have we said, “Why can’t we get an elite WR to MSU?” They want to play for a system that shows them off. If you’re winning with defense they just look elsewhere, even if your win total is higher than other schools. Just look at how many elite WR Ole Miss has put in the league while we were beating them on the field and in the win column.
I get that. I just don’t see why it has to be an either/or situation. But I’m not paid millions to coach either so…
 

8dog

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Feb 23, 2008
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What's the deal?

Is the facts that Lebby is an offensive guru and we have a no-name defensive staff the reasons we seem to be able to pile up skill position players but can't hold any defensive players attention?

I feel like we're about to become 2020 OM: score 40/game with no defense. That would be bizarro world.

View attachment 497092
How many high end defensive guys are transferring to teams with losing records last year that are not coached by Prime?
 
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